What's your ideal TM list?

For a Generation III ROM hack, what would your ideal list of 50 TMs be?

I can't name 50 of the top. But moves like Skill Swap or Frustration are completely useless and would not be missed.

1) Take a look at the TM list in Shiny Gold Sigma.
2) Don't do that.

ive simply pulled from a combination of gen1-3's move pool and a few modifications i made myself

it goes like this

01 Focus Punch
02 Dragon Claw
03 Water Pulse
04 Rollout
05 Meteor Mash
06 Poison Fang
07 Hail
08 Sandstorm
09 Razor Leaf
10 Hidden Power
11 Sunny Day
12 Hydro Pump
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam
16 False Swipe
17 Thrash
18 Rain Dance
19 Giga Drain
20 Pursuit
21 Crunch
22 SolarBeam
23 Iron Tail
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
26 Earthquake
27 Return
28 Dig
29 Psychic
30 Shadow Ball
31 Brick Break
32 Beat Up
33 Cross Chop
34 Shock Wave
35 Flamethrower
36 Sludge Bomb
37 Rock Blast
38 Fire Blast
39 Rock Tomb
40 Aerial Ace
43 Secret Power
44 Recover
45 Zap Cannon
46 Shadow Punch
47 Steel Wing
50 Heat Wave
51 Signal Beam
52 Sky Attack

My list:

01 Superpower
02 Outrage
03 Hydro Pump
04 Calm Mind
05 Roar
06 Toxic
07 Hail
08 Bulk Up
09 Crunch
10 Hidden Power
11 Sunny Day
12 Taunt
13 Ice Beam
14 Ancientpower
15 Hyper Beam
16 Light Screen
17 Protect
18 Rain Dance
19 Giga Drain
20 Safeguard
21 Heal Bell
22 Solarbeam
23 Iron Tail
24 Thunderbolt
25 Dragon Dance
26 Earthquake
27 Return
28 Spikes
29 Psychic
30 Shadow Ball
31 Brick Break
32 Explosion
33 Reflect
34 Rock Slide
35 Flamethrower
36 Sludge Bomb
37 Sandstorm
38 Weather Ball
39 Rock Tomb
40 Aerial Ace
41 Torment
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Slack Off
45 Attract
46 Silver Wind
47 Steel Wing
48 Thunder Wave
49 Will-o-Wisp
50 Overheat

Welp, might as well make one:

01 Aura Sphere
02 Dragon Dance
03 Liquidation
04 Nasty Plot
05 Leech Life
06 Toxic
07 Will-O-Wisp
08 Dark Pulse
09 Swords Dance
10 Energy Ball
11 Poison Jab
12 Fiery Dance
13 Quiver Dance
14 Ice Beam
12 Seed Bomb
13 Drain Punch
14 Outrage
15 Shadow Ball
16 Stealth Rock
17 Iron Head
18 Flare Blitz
19 Dragon Pulse
20 Hydro Pump
21 Extreme Speed
22 Moonblast
23 Giga Drain
24 Sludge Bomb
25 Thunderbolt
26 Thunder
27 Fire Punch
28 Earthquake
29 Earth Power
30 Thunder Punch
31 Flash Cannon
32 Shadow Claw
33 Night Slash
34 Ice Punch
35 Stone Edge
36 Brave Bird
37 Air Slash
38 Rock Slide
39 Bug Buzz
40 Psycho Cut
41 Play Rough
42 Psyshock
43 Icicle Crash
44 Draco Meteor
45 Leech Seed
46 Close Combat
47 Hurricane
48 Heat Wave
49 Substitute
50 Boomburst

Body Slam, Brick Break, Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Double-Edge, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Explosion, Facade, Fake Out, Fire Blast, Fire Punch, Flamethrower, Giga Drain, Ice Beam, Ice Punch, Light Screen, Overheat, Psychic, Rain Dance, Reflect, Rest, Roar, Rock Slide, Shadow Ball, Sleep Talk, Sludge Bomb, Swords Dance, Thunderbolt, Thunder Punch, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Blizzard, Iron Tail, Icy Wind, Steel Wing, Sunny Day, Solar Beam, Thunder, Aerial Ace, Ancient Power, Hydro Pump, Dragon Dance, Crunch, Pursuit, Megahorn, Superpower, Silver Wind, Will-O-Wisp, Recover

Why only 50 is my question?
Shouldn't be that difficult to expand the TM list I'd assume.

Any move that does significant damage in all the types (inc bug and rock moves). Some weaker moves early on, those will be nice to give to pokemon until they learn better moves: Toxic, Secret power, brick brake, shock wave, and such
We dont need moves like frustration. Even things like rain dance, roar are moves youll most likely never use. I would like it better if you didnt find them in the game but was able to buy those in a department store.

Here's the thing with TMs:

Given it's the context of a romhack, you can place move tutors or special events pretty much anywhere to distribute both the more common and the more rare moves, as well as very situational moves like Sonicboom or per-species speciality moves like the Starters' "finishers".

But with TMs the big idea is that, at least if the ability for infinite TM usage is implemented, you can switch your moveset while out in the ground (and if not infinite TM usage, you can rebuy them at specific places with well-defined periodicity: as long as you have money). So more "ideal" TM listings would focus on three things:

* all-purpose moves that cover the most types and have in general the same effect: things like Dragon Pulse, "Type" Ball, the Flamethrower-Thunderbolt-Icebeam triad, all hit 1 opponent for a regular, predictable amount of damage, serve the majority of mons and for the most part don't have self-debuff effects.
* moves with out-of-battle effects, since HMs are more limited in that respect: Dig, Sweet Scent, etc. Even better if more moves can be given OOB scripts (eg.: Ember or Flamethrower to light up torches in caves, Vine Whip to cross a chasm, Ice Beam to freeze a deep water pool and cross over)
* moves that induce status or ailments that are otherwise difficult to rely on because of chance to apply or because of per-species limitations (Encore, Taunt, Curse, etc).

While I can't come up with a definitive list, it would largely based on the above listing and would include, assuming available backports for future moves:

* Hyper Beam
* Giga Impact
* Shadow Ball
* Energy Ball
* Zap Cannon
* Focus Blast
* Aura Sphere
* Thrash
* Swift
* Taunt
* Torment
* Encore
* Will-o-Wisp
* Sing / Grass Whistle
* Toxic
* Curse
* Ingrain / Leech Seed
* Secret Power
* Nature Power
* Headbutt (if headbuttable trees are implemented)
* Rock Smash
* Teleport
* Dig
* Uproar
* Spit Up and Swallow
* Amnesia and a Phys.Def equivalent
* Rest

And would exclude, barring some other considerations, moves like the following:

* Starter finishers
* Moonblast
* Shadow Sneak
* Dragon Rush
* Drill Run
* Magic Room / Trick Room
* Perish Song
* Super Fang
* Simple Beam
* Soak

For me, TMs would consist of three types of moves:

1-General utility but not broken status moves (Reflect, Rest, Safeguard, Protect, Taunt, Rain Dance...)
2-Attacks around 60 BP with secondary effects (Brine, Charge Beam, Snarl, Mega Drain, Psybeam, Headbutt, Faint Attack, Hidden Power...). When TM attacks have high BP, all Pokémon in competitive have the same movesets (Earthquake, Ice Beam, Psychic, etc)
3-Very niche moves that can be useful in specific battles (Bide, Uproar, Skull Bash, Synchronoise)

Moves like Toxic and Stealth Rock shouldn't be TMs, either. They're too strong. Maybe they could be replaced by Poison Gas and Spikes.

Decided to double my ideal TM list with some new changes, cuz Wynaut?

01 Superpower
02 Outrage
03 Hydro Pump
04 Calm Mind
05 Roar
06 Toxic
07 Hail
08 Bulk Up
09 Knock Off
10 Hidden Power
11 Sunny Day
12 Taunt
13 Ice Beam
14 Ancient Power
15 Hyper Beam
16 Light Screen
17 Protect
18 Rain Dance
19 Giga Drain
20 Safeguard
21 Heal Bell
22 Solar Beam
23 Iron Tail
24 Thunderbolt
25 Dragon Dance
26 Earthquake
27 Double-Edge
28 Spikes
29 Psychic
30 Shadow Ball
31 Brick Break
32 Explosion
33 Reflect
34 Rock Slide
35 Flamethrower
36 Sludge Bomb
37 Sandstorm
38 Weather Ball
39 Rock Tomb
40 Aerial Ace
41 Torment
42 Facade
43 Dazzling Gleam
44 Slack Off
45 Attract
46 Leech Life
47 Steel Wing
48 Thunder Wave
49 Will-o-Wisp
50 Overheat
51 Roost
52 Focus Blast
53 Energy Ball
54 Yawn
55 Scald
56 Air Slash
57 Flare Blitz
58 Play Rough
59 Dragon Pulse
60 Earth Power
61 Acrobatics
62 Liquidation
63 Embargo
64 Explosion
65 Poltergeist
66 Feint Attack
67 Smart Strike
68 Giga Impact
69 Rock Polish
70 Aurora Veil
71 Stone Edge
72 Volt Switch
73 Icicle Crash
74 Zen Headbutt
75 Swords Dance
76 Brave Bird
77 Psych Up
78 Bulldoze
79 Dark Pulse
80 Stealth Rock
81 Quiver Dance
82 Dragon Tail
83 Moonblast
84 Poison Jab
85 Dream Eater
86 Drill Run
87 Swagger
88 Sleep Talk
89 U-turn
90 Substitute
91 Flash Cannon
92 Trick Room
93 Wild Charge
94 Surf
95 Waterfall
96 Close Combat
97 Psyshock
98 Power Whip
99 Dazzling Gleam
100 Confide

MightyPikablu said:

I can't name 50 of the top. But moves like Skill Swap or Frustration are completely useless and would not be missed.

Click to expand...

My answer as well!

Skill Swap can be incredibly useful in double battles.

If I were to pick some TMs, I would try to make the list fit to as many playstyles as possible. I'd recommend grouping the moves into categories like such:

Damaging Moves:
1.Flamethrower
2.Ice Beam
3.Thunderbolt
4.Scald
5.Flash Cannon

Stat Effecting Moves:
1. Swords Dance
2.Work Up/Growth
3.Curse
4.Nasty Plot
5.Iron Defense

General Setup Moves:
1.Rain Dance
2.Sunny Day
3.Reflect
4.Trick Room
5.Stealth Rock/Spikes

Negative Effect Moves:
1.Toxic
2.Attract
3.Swagger
4.Roar/Whirlwind
5.Charm/Tickle


Out-Of-Battle Moves
1.Sweet Scent
2.Dig
3.Softboiled
4.Teleport
5.Headbutt

You don't have to use the exact moves that I did, but grouping the moves like this may help you out!

* Headbutt (if headbuttable trees are implemented)

Uhmm...(Maybe the original tm list of fire red)

This is the TM list I'm using in my ROM hack:
1) Focus Punch −−−−−− 26) Earthquake
2) Dragon Claw −−−−−− 27) Return
3) Scald −−−−−−−−−−−− 28) Dig
4) Calm Mind −−−−−−−− 29) Psychic
5) Roar −−−−−−−−−−−−− 30) Shadow ball
6) Toxic −−−−−−−−−−−−− 31) Brick Break
7) Hail −−−−−−−−−−−−−− 32) Double Team
8) Bulk Up −−−−−−−−−−− 33) Reflect
9) Substitute −−−−−−−−− 34) Shock Wave
10) Hidden Power −−−− 35) Flame Thrower
11) Sunny Day −−−−−−− 36) Sludge Bomb
12) Taunt −−−−−−−−−−− 37) Sandstorm
13) Ice Beam −−−−−−−−− 38) Fire Blast
14) Blizzard −−−−−−−−−− 39) Recover
15) Hyper Beam −−−−−− 40) Aerial Ace
16) Light Screen −−−−−− 41) Will−o−wisp
17) Protect −−−−−−−−−− 42) Façade
18) Rain Dance −−−−−−− 43) Secret Power
19) Giga Drain −−−−−−−− 44) Rest
20) Safe Guard −−−−−−− 45) Outrage
21) Dragon Dance −−−−− 46) Thief
22) Solar Beam −−−−−−− 47) Steel Wing
23) Crunch −−−−−−−−−−− 48) Stone Edge
24) Thunderbolt −−−−−−− 49) Snatch
25) Thunder −−−−−−−−−− 50) Overheat

HM1: X−Scissor −−−−−−−− HM5: Body Slam
HM2: Fly −−−−−−−−−−−−−− HM6: Iron Head
HM3: Surf −−−−−−−−−−−−− HM7: Waterfall
HM4: Superpower −−−−−− HM8: Skill Swap

This is my list for a Gen 6 hack! Not Gen 3 but may be of interest.

1 Hone Claws
2 Superpower (prev. Dragon Claw)
3 Psyshock
4 Calm Mind
5 Thunder Punch (prev. Roar)
6 Toxic
7 Hail
8 Bulk Up
9 Venoshock
10 Hidden Power
11 Sunny Day
12 Foul Play (prev. Taunt)
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam
16 Light Screen
17 Protect
18 Rain Dance
19 Roost
20 Safeguard
21 Helping Hand (prev. Frustration) (My hack predominantly employs double battles)
22 Solar Beam
23 Smack Down
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
26 Earthquake
27 Return
28 Dig
29 Psychic
30 Shadow Ball
31 Brick Break
32 Gunk Shot (prev. Double Team)
33 Reflect
34 Sludge Wave
35 Flamethrower
36 Sludge Bomb
37 Sandstorm
38 Fire Blast
39 Rock Tomb
40 Aerial Ace
41 Torment
42 Facade
43 Flame Charge
44 Rest
45 Attract
46 Thief
47 Low Sweep
48 Fire Punch (prev. Round)
49 Echoed Voice
50 Mystical Fire (prev. Overheat)
51 Iron Head (prev. Steel Wing)
52 Focus Blast
53 Energy Ball
54 False Swipe
55 Scald
56 Fling
57 Charge Beam
58 Air Slash (prev. Sky Drop)
59 Incinerate
60 Nasty Plot (prev. Quash)
61 Will-O-Wisp
62 Acrobatics
63 Iron Tail (prev. Embargo)
64 Ice Punch (prev. Explosion)
65 Shadow Claw
66 Payback
67 Retaliate
68 Giga Impact
69 Weather Ball (prev. Rock Polish)
70 Headbutt (prev. Flash)
71 Stone Edge
72 Volt Switch
73 Thunder Wave
74 Aqua Tail (prev. Gyro Ball)
75 Swords Dance
76 Signal Beam (prev. Struggle Bug)
77 Power Whip (prev. Psych Up)
78 Bulldoze
79 Icy Wind (prev. Frost Breath)
80 Rock Slide
81 X-Scissor
82 Dragon Tail
83 Infestation
84 Poison Jab
85 Ally Switch (prev. Dream Eater) (My hack predominantly employs double battles)
86 Grass Knot
87 Swagger
88 Sleep Talk
89 U-turn
90 Substitute
91 Flash Cannon
92 Trick Room
93 Wild Charge
94 Rock Smash
95 Snarl
96 Nature Power
97 Dark Pulse
98 Power-Up Punch
99 Dazzling Gleam
100 Giga Drain (prev. Confide)

I tried to replace less useful moves (Psych Up, Flash, Roar Frustration) or moves that not many Pokémon get (Quash, Frost Breath, Embargo) with moves that lots of Pokémon get coverage from and may not get via level-up (Mystical Fire, Giga Drain, Elemental Punches).