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My Shoddy Pioneer Team [OU RMT]

grey†fish

not black or white… or gray :]
96
Posts
14
Years
    • Hi guys, this is a team that I made about a year ago in Smogon's Shoddy server. I never had anyone who actually knew competitive battling rate it, and thus, I kind of wanna see what PC's competitive community thinks about it.

    I stopped competing when I entered college (mostly because I don't have an ethernet cable, but whatever), and as I am about to return home I thought I may give it another try, so I wanted to ask your opinion on how it would hold up in today's metagame.

    I am NOT well-versed in competitive battling, but if memory serves me right, I think this team DID help me win about 3 out of 4 battles :) (with some good prediction skills/luck), so here we go:

    Lineup:
    68.png
    466.png
    230.png
    251.png
    490.png
    Spr_4d_121_s.png

    Summary:
    68.png

    Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
    No Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 SpD
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Dynamicpunch
    - Encore
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute
    68.png

    Machamp (M) @ Lum Berry
    No Guard
    EVs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Dynamicpunch
    - Bulletpunch
    - Payback
    - Ice Punch > Stone Edge ?    ​

    Machamp was one of my best (if not the best) Pokémon in my team. I would try to catch people using not-offesive moves with Encore, and put a Sub up whenever necessary. Dynamicpunch was obviously his main hit, with Stone Edge being there to trap those pesky Flying-type leads. Although I was forced to make good predictions with this guy for the team to work, most of the matches I won were decided in the first battle.
    I really like the 'new' Machamp's type coverage, but I always enjoyed a lot of success when setting up Substitutes or trapping Pokémon into Encore… I'm not 100% sure about switching these guys, but as of now, this one has priority. :) Regarding my last moveslot, I'm leaning towards Ice Punch, but I'm not too sure about which move would help me more… Help?


    466.png

    Weavile (F) @ Life Orb
    Pressure
    EVs: (I just realized I never allotted EVs for this guy o_0)
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Brick Break
    - Ice Punch
    - Pursuit > Night Slash ?
    - Swords Dance​

    Weavile quickly became one of my main sweepers (the other two being Kingdra and Heatran), and her speed usually allowed me to spare the use of one or two SDs. :D
    Although I agree that Taunting can be pretty effective to keep Pokés from setting up on me, I don't like the idea of Weavile using it, since I feel she'd be too frail for the task somehow (since she already has a Life Orb)… :\ I may be wrong though.

    230.png

    Kingdra (F) @ Choice Specs
    Sniper
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam​

    Another one of my main sweepers, I really liked prioritizing on speed to ensure hitting first when it counts. Although I could only seldom keep Kingdra out for multiple battles (Choice Specs being the main reason), her versatility helped me enjoy many victories. :)

    251.png

    Celebi (N/A) @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Grass Knot
    - Leech Seed
    - Recover​

    Although I attempted to make my team's typings as varied as possible to ensure resistances to most possible types of attacks, Celebi usually saw itself being used to stall and weaken an opponent who would otherwise give me trouble. Unless I knew that my opponent was keeping something back that was weak to this guy, I would simply allow it to bite away at a possible threat's health before withering away… :\

    490.png

    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
    Timid Nature ( > +Spe, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]​

    Usually not coming in until late-game, I would attempt to pluck away anything that would resist Fire-type attacks before letting Fire Blast run rampage (or one of his two other options), but never without a possible switch to cope with Choice Specs (finishing fights with Heatran and Kingdra was always really exciting! :D).
    I understand the need for Stealth Rock in my team. However, I'm very reluctant to un-spec this guy… would Life Orb a feasible option? Again, this guy used to not see much action until the end, so I'm not too sure about any strategic advantage to setting SR up until mid-to-late game. :surprised:

    Spr_4d_121_s.png

    Starmie (N/A) @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    EVs: 136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Surf
    - Thunderbolt​

    Starmie was a newer addition to the team, replacing a shiny Forretress I used to have. While I enjoyed the fact that Forretress was resistant to Toxic Spikes (the only setup that actually bothered me), Starmie proved to be a lot more versatile in the offensive as compared to my previous Pokémon.​

    So that's it!
    I also saved up some logs from random battles, so I guess I could always put those up. :\

    EDIT: I'll have to revise Celebi, Heatran, and Starmie's EVs to ensure maximum Leftovers recovery, so the EV spreads are by no means set yet.

    Spoiler:


    And that's it! (For real this time)… so I'll look forward to your reviews! :D
     
    Last edited:
    Dark Azelf

    Dark Azelf

    ☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣
    7,210
    Posts
    16
    Years
    • Seen yesterday
    That Machamp is outdated.

    Machamp@Lum Berry
    240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
    Trait : No Guard
    ~ DynamicPunch
    ~ Bullet Punch
    ~ Payback
    ~ Ice Punch / Stone Edge

    Does the same thing basically and is actually more useful thanks to the priority and additional coverage so it actually beats suicide leads and isnt as bad set up fodder.
     

    Samson

    no, i don't know milk drink
    2,550
    Posts
    17
    Years
    • wow so all of a sudden, lum berry is more competitive now? i remember being flamed for suggesting it lol
     

    aragornbird

    (｡◕‿‿◕｡)
    3,732
    Posts
    18
    Years
    • ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

    You've done a good job by using a CeleTran+Bulky Water as a team core.

    However, one thing this team lacks is Stealth Rock. Machamp is a great lead, but it can't learn Stealth Rock. 2 Pokemon on your team CAN learn it. Celebi and Heatran are great Stealth Rockers that can switch in against Psychic attacks aimed at Machamp. But both Celebi and Machamp are weak to Flying, so use Heatran as your Stealth Rocker since it resists Flying.

    Heatran's set should be changed to:

    Heatran @ Shuca Berry/Leftovers
    4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
    Timid Nature
    -Earth Power
    -Fire Blast
    -Hidden Power [Ice]
    -Stealth Rock

    You don't want to blow up Heatran since it's the only Scizor counter on your team.

    Swords Dance Weavile looks good on paper because Weavile has excellent Speed and Attack and should be able to sweep easily after a Swords Dance. But it just doesn't work well. Why? Well, Scizor is the main issue. With Scizor being everywhere, Weavile just doesn't stand a chance. It won't have any opportunity to attack when Scizor switches in and Bullet Punches it to death.
    Being Stealth Rock weak doesn't work in Weavile's favor either.

    Weavile works best as a revenge killer who picks off Ghosts, Psychics, Dragons, and weakened Pokemon. At least then, you don't have to worry about setting up with Swords Dance.

    Weavile @Choice Band/Life Orb
    Jolly Nature
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    -Pursuit
    -Ice Shard
    -Low Kick
    -Night Slash

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
     
    Last edited:

    grey†fish

    not black or white… or gray :]
    96
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • Thanks for the suggestions guys! :)

    @ DarkAzelf: I see your point regarding Machamp, and I read the entry on it on smogon, however I have to accept that I would be reluctant to get rid of Encore mostly, since it allowed me to lol at attacking leads that would try to take me out by setting up first, but I most definitely WILL try the new variant when I have a chance

    @ Aragorn: I like the idea you had for Heatran, and I feel you in the SR department (believe it), but the 2/3 SpA attack loss from no Choice Specs scares me to say the least :\

    Also, back in the day I never had a problem with Scizor, honestly. Mostly because I'd try to hold Heatran back until late game, specifically to run over this guy if he did surface, or to finish cleaning up. So I would be reluctant to give it SR and bring him in early-game…

    Perhaps a different move for Heatran could help as well as a SR variant for Celebi could help???

    And SD Weavile would be incredible at sorting things out mid-game, although if Scizor does become a factor, I guess I could move my team around accordingly. :\

    Anyways, thanks for the rates! Keep 'em coming! :D
     

    Lickitricky

    Avast, ye scurvy dogs!
    90
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • I really, really agree with aragornbird: SR is an absolutely must, or even Spikes at least.

    This team definitely has some nice aspects to it, but it is a little too far back in the good old days: You absolutely need Stealth Rock. I felt the same way for a long time, and then I decided to try out Spikes + SR on my team, and it truly works amazingly. You need at least one of them if you want to truly battle competitively.

    Also, there's no Taunt. Anywhere on your team.

    Spoiler:


    Taunt is pretty much an indispensable move that can easy grant you at least one free turn when you use it against a wall. If you're a big fan of your SD Weavile, you can at least replace Night Slash (which is worse than Pursuit, but you don't want a revenge killer Weavile either) with Taunt in order to get a free turn, then use SD and try to sweep a little with Ice Shard and Brick Break. Oh yes, and Ice Punch is much better than Ice Shard in your Weavile's case, since it's not an anti-lead or a revenge killer. So yeah, I really suggest Ice Punch > Ice Shard. Now, Brick Break and Ice Punch give you decent type coverage, while Night Slash doesn't really help too much.

    I second aragornbird's Heatran, because it REALLY needs to use Stealth Rock, and Explosion is kind of a horrible idea on it.

    Other than that, your team is pretty decent I guess~ it's just mega-outdated in some ways, so you have to rearrange it a little in order to prepare yourself for the basic OU threats, and you really, really, REALLY need Stealth Rock and Taunt.
     

    grey†fish

    not black or white… or gray :]
    96
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • OK! I edited my team according to you guys' suggestions, I'm still pretty unsure on which way I should try to lead it (mostly because of inactivity in Shoddy for like a year, as previously stated), but I'll try hard to implement your guys' ideas to make this a viable team. :)

    How does it look now by the way… here are some of my main worries/question/conclusions:
    * I'm unsure towards Machamp, but I think I'll make my decision based on playtesting. :\
    * Does Weavile look better now?
    * Am I overworrying about Heatran's SpA? Or should he take a completely different role from late-game sweeper?​
    Anyways, THANKS GUYS!!! And as always, keep the suggestions coming!
     

    aragornbird

    (｡◕‿‿◕｡)
    3,732
    Posts
    18
    Years
    • ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

    Lickitricky is wrong. Taunt is not a neccesity like Stealth Rock is.

    Taunt made your Weavile even worse. Without a Dark Move, you lose the ability to beat things like Dusknoir and Rotom. And it won't do anything against Scizor. The only Weavile that should use Taunt is Anti-Lead Weavile, but Machamp is a better Anti-Lead anyways.

    Stop worrying about Heatran's power. So what if it can't hit as hard? It doesn't matter. Heatran can do other things besides attack.

    2nd Machamp is way better.

    Hope that answers your questions.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
     

    FreakyLocz14

    Conservative Patriot
    3,498
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • Seen Aug 29, 2018
    No don't use SD Weavile. Weavile is so fragile it dies attempting to set-up.
     

    grey†fish

    not black or white… or gray :]
    96
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • aragorn: I'll take your word for it since you seem to know what you're doing, and use your Heatran and the second Machamp instead.

    Regarding Weavile, I'm guessing Pursuit > Night Slash, right?

    FreakyLocz: I'd really appreciate it if criticism was constructive in this thread, and not otherwise. With that in mind, I'd like to invite you to make a suggestion as to a viable replacement rather than: "No don't use SD Weavile. Weavile is so fragile it dies attempting to set-up." :/

    This goes for everyone else, and again, I wanna thank those who ARE giving me feedback.
     
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