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Gen V - Metagame Speculation Thread

Ninja Caterpie

Ninja Caterpie

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    • Mmk, Breloom is a pretty scary beast in Dream World (as was theorymon'd), what with Bullet Seed and Mach Punch/Ankle Sweep getting an epic boost in power thanks to Technician (I couldn't have figured!). Dance or Stone Edge/Bullet Seed/Mach Punch or Ankle sweep/Spore is what most run and it's piss annoying. Skarmory still walls it fairly well, so that's mostly okay (as long as it doesn't get sleep'd).

    Other than that (because not very exp'd), most of what D_A said applies anyway.
     
    Last edited:
    Dark Azelf

    Dark Azelf

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    I agree Weezing is a great check for alot of things. Only thing i hate about is A. Pain Split blows. B. Heatran negates everything it can do lol. :/ C. Garchomp used Sub...x_x lol
     

    jkriall

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    Looking at the offensive threat list, priority seems like the best way to go against them. Stuff like choice band Mamoswine or Weavile with ice shard or Mach punch Roobushin, breloom etc help, but honestly most of them cant switch into much. Supposedly trick room is THE anti-metagame strategy this gen, and it makes sense with the ridiculous speed of Garchomp Doryuuzu etc...
    I'm surprised Deoxys A isn't there, almost always bags 2 or more kills, but again priority is a great strategy against him too.
     
    Dark Azelf

    Dark Azelf

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    jkriall said:
    Looking at the offensive threat list, priority seems like the best way to go against them. Stuff like choice band Mamoswine or Weavile with ice shard or Mach punch Roobushin, breloom etc help, but honestly most of them cant switch into much. Supposedly trick room is THE anti-metagame strategy this gen, and it makes sense with the ridiculous speed of Garchomp Doryuuzu etc...
    I'm surprised Deoxys A isn't there, almost always bags 2 or more kills, but again priority is a great strategy against him too.
    Click to expand...

    Deoxys-A is very good the LO set with SuperPower/Ice Beam/T-Bolt/Psycho Boost is ridiculous, i mean he can be revenge killed but nothing likes taking hits from him at all. It sometimes runs Protect over a move to lol at trappers.

    Cycle said:
    oh, by the way, watch out for erufuun subseed lololol.
    Click to expand...

    Erufuun is very overated imho, it never does anything for or against me and it always seems to be dead weight. Yeah its amazing at stopping sweeps but not being able to attack is horrid.
     

    jkriall

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    Dark Azelf said:
    Deoxys-A is very good the LO set with SuperPower/Ice Beam/T-Bolt/Psycho Boost is ridiculous, i mean he can be revenge killed but nothing likes taking hits from him at all. It sometimes runs Protect over a move to lol at trappers.
    Click to expand...

    Nvm, Deoxys A was banned today :D

    Doryuuzu has completely changed the WiFi game atm. It has basically centralized the whole tier around Sandstorm offence, which sort of proves it should be banned to ubers, but I don't see it happening. The only pokes under 600 bst so far have been wynaut and Wobuffet, and only because of shadow tag with its ability to pretty much 100% beat choice users. Even though theres not been a poke who's speed doubles in unlimited weather yet, especially with 135 att and swords dance, 508 IS a low total stat for 'OU', nevermind 'ubers', plus there are things that wall it 100% even after a SD, and things that revenge it 100%. I don't want to say there is a counter, because honestly, with balloon I don't think there is... maybe hitmontop/roobushin, but Skarmory/Gliscor wall it and anything with Aqua jet or Mach punch revenge it (plus vacuum wave?), which are more common in gen 5.
    Anyways that's my take on mole, I dunno if I can even talk about tiering tbh but still, the other stuff is relevant.
     

    Opposite Day

    too old for name changes
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    • just going to c+p my nidoking thingy here from smogon, because I really think that it deserves some attention:

    Nidoking got Encourage this gen, which simply put gives it a Special Attack along the lines of 125 base, and an even higher base Attack. Combine that with the fact that it is immune to Sandstorm and Life Orb damage, that it resists Stealth Rock along with the very common Fighting priority, and that it absorbs Toxic Spikes on entry, and you've got yourself a strong mon this gen.

    (yes, Encourage Nidoking has been released, check it out!)

    What I've been doing a little bit of is to combine the insane set-up move Shell Break + White Herb w/ Nidoking, as it has immense power and coverage, but is outsped by quite some things w/o a boost. Huntail or Gorebyss gets both Baton Pass and Shell Break, and the fact that Nidoking resists or is immune to their weaknesses makes the combo quite a bit better.

    nidokinnnnnnn.gif

    Nidoking @ Life Orb
    Ability: Encourage
    Nature: Naïve (+Spe, - SpD)
    72 Att | 184 SpA | 252 Spe
    ~ Earth Power
    ~ Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Poison Jab


    Some damage calcs to show how retardedly strong this is if it gets the shell break:

    POISON JAB
    +2 Poison Jab vs 20|252 Calm Blissey: (88.26% - 103.96%) (ohko w/ sr)
    +1 Poison Jab vs Salamence: (79.76% - 94.26%) (ohko w/ sr)
    w/o Intimidate: (106.04% - 125.08%)
    +2 Poison Jab vs 188|104 Snorlax: (70.87% - 83.46%)
    +2 Poison Jab vs 0|0 Lati@s: (106.64% - 125.58%)
    +2 Poison Jab vs Bold 252|252 Latias: (62.09% - 73.35%)
    +2 Poison Jab vs 0|0 Sazandora: (98.77% - 116.31%) (ohko w/ rocks)
    +2 Poison Jab vs 0|0 Ulgamoth: (133.44% - 157.56%) (bug doesn't resist poison)
    +2 Poison Jab vs 28|226 Wobbufett: (62.69% - 73.86%)

    EARTH POWER
    +2 Earth Power vs 252|4 Hippowdon: (108.57% - 127.86%)
    +2 Earth Power vs 0|0 Garchomp: (111.76% - 131.93%)
    +2 Earth Power vs 0|0 Kingdra: (125.09% - 147.42%) (w/ max speed and naïve you tie w/ +spe swimmers)
    +2 Earth Power vs 252|0 Tyranitar: (114.85% - 135.64%)
    +2 Earth Power vs 252|252 Careful Tyranitar: (83.17% - 98.02%) (about 2/3 chance to ohko w/ sr)
    +2 Earth Power vs 28|252 Calm Wobbufett: (65.91% - 77.84%)
    +2 Earth Power vs 252|0 Nattorei: (86.93% - 102.56%) (about 50% chance to ohko w/ sr)
    +2 Earth Power vs 252|0 Baffuron: (92.39% - 108.88%)

    THUNDERBOLT
    +2 Thunderbolt vs 252|252 Calm Burungel: (84.16% - 99.50%) (about 75% chance to ohko w/ sr)
    +2 Thunderbolt vs any Gyarados: lol
    +2 Thunderbolt vs 252|4 Suicune: (107.92% - 127.23%)
    + 1 Thunderbolt vs 252|4 Suicune: (81.19% - 95.54%) (about 50% chance to ohko w/ sr
    +2 Thunderbolt vs 252|0 Weezing: (98.20% - 115.87%) (ohko w/ sr)
    +2 Thunderbolt vs 252|0 Skarmory: (196.41% - 231.74%)

    FLAMEFILLER
    +2 Flamethrower vs 252|0 Skarmory: (196.41% - 231.74%)
    +2 Flametrower vs 0|0 Doryuuzu: (191.69% - 226.04%) (you outspeed it in sand if it is not jolly)
    +2 Flamethrower vs Gliscor: (87.85% - 103.39%) (ohko w/ sr)
    +2 Flamethrower vs 0|0 Landlos: (92.48% - 109.09%) (ohko w/ sr)
    +2 Flamethrower vs 252|0 Nattorei: (244.32% - 288.64%)
    +2 Fire Blast vs 252|0 Weezing: (123.95% - 146.11%)

    Also note how it outspeeds nearly every scarfer in existence including the 145 Speed pure Bug Agirudaa if it is not carrying a +Spe nature.

    Priority vs Nidoking:
    252 Adamant +1 Scizor Bullet Punch vs 0|0 Nidoking: (66.34% - 78.22%)
    252 Adamant +1 Metagross Bullet Punch vs 0|0 Nidoking: (45.54% - 53.80%)
    252 Adamant LO Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs 0|0 Nidoking: (52.15% - 61.72%)
    252 Adamant +1 LO Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs 0|0 Nidoking: (78.22% - 92.08%) (it resists SR ;D)
    252 Adamant +1 Lucario Extremespeed vs 0|0 Nidoking: (52.15% - 61.72%)
    252 Adamant +1 Mamoswine Ice Shard vs 0|0 Nidoking: (89.11% - 104.95%)
    252 Adamant +1 Weavile Ice Shard vs 0|0 Nidoking: (83.83% - 99.01%) <- fail
    252 Adamant +1 Cloyster Ice Shard vs 0|0 Nidoking: (71.95% - 85.15%)
    252 Adamant +1 Azumarill Aqua Jet vs 0|0 Nidoking: (97.69% - 115.51%)
    252 Adamant +1 LO Roobushin Mach Punch vs 0|0 Nidoking: (30.36% - 35.64%)

    oh, and there's Shadow Sneak etc, but those aren't as dangerous as the aforementioned ones, I think.

    Unreleased:
    252 Adamant +2 LO Breloom Tech Mach Punch vs 0|0 Nidoking: (57.43% - 67.66%)

    Scarf Deoxys-S (<- rofl) can outspeed and ohko w/o trouble, but you should scout for stuff like that before you try to bp the boost anyway.
    In the same way, Ditto CAN of course revenge it, but it loses out on the LO boost so it should be a bit less of a threat, especially considering how it would most likely use Earth Power or Fire Blast/Flamethrower to revenge it, which means that stuff like Gyara, the Lati@s, Balloon Tran etc would get a "free" switch-in.. Snorlax appears to be the best check to this, being able to take a hit and do quite some damage in return, but it must use Earthquake in order to actually kill it, as it will survive a choiced Body Slam (83.50% - 98.35%), again meaning that stuff like Gengar can switch in and set up a sub, or giving a flying-type such as Salamence a free DD. Dory kills it IF it is Jolly.

    SR support is also very very useful, as it secures ohko's on stuff like Blissey, Baffuron, Tyranitar, Salamence, Sazandora etc.

    The best way to stop this would simply be to prevent Huntail from bp'ing the boost since it lacks taunt. Mischievous Heart users, for instance Voltolos and Erufuun, stops Huntail dead in its tracks since it cannot BP the boost, however Voltolos will likely take hefty damage from a +2 Surf/Waterfall. If it manages to pass it I guess you could predict around it. Blissey can likely take any special attacks if you mange to null out the +2 attack boost as well. Huntail is not that frail however, so straight out attacking it might not be the best idea, wolf experienced that yesterday lol

    Fun stuff.
     
    Last edited:

    jkriall

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    I think you forgot the -1 def drop shell break gives in your priority calcs. Unless you're assuming the bper has white herb which I think cancels out the drops but not the boosts? Those offensive calcs are ridiculous though.
     
    Gymnotide

    Gymnotide

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    • How good is Ditto actually? I'm aware of Choice Scarf and Eccentric, but has he been more of a nuisance, or an actual game-ender?
    Also, Shell Break Cloyster
     
    Dark Azelf

    Dark Azelf

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    Gymnotide said:
    How good is Ditto actually? I'm aware of Choice Scarf and Eccentric, but has he been more of a nuisance, or an actual game-ender?
    Also, Shell Break Cloyster
    Click to expand...

    He can end the game, but he is usually a tool to stop you getting swept. Though ive seen people let Dragons DD 6 times sac their current poke and send in ditto then just Outrage and obv nothing is walling +6 +6 Outrages lol
     

    Skip Shot

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    • ugh eccentric ditto is annoying. btw for wi-fi if a dw ability is confirmed you can use it in wi-fi right. magic mirror espeon is coming back to kill me in the wi-fi tier so just wondering lol
     
    Dark Azelf

    Dark Azelf

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    Skip Shot said:
    ugh eccentric ditto is annoying. btw for wi-fi if a dw ability is confirmed you can use it in wi-fi right. magic mirror espeon is coming back to kill me in the wi-fi tier so just wondering lol
    Click to expand...

    Yeah if its confirmed and released you can use it.

    Espeon sucks. It just switches into my Forry or Nattorei and i either Spin my own Spikes away or it just eats a Power Whip/Payback and gets KO'd aka "wow it is useless and accomplishes nothing" rofl -_-
     

    Rossay

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    • Abagoora is quite underlooked and can take teams by surprise. With Shell break, study, STAB priority in aqua jet it can deal with key threats like Shanderaa and Doryuzuu. It gets walled by majorly by nattorei however. Abagoora can run shellbreak, focus sash and swift swim if it's on a rain team as well.
     
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