What is the appeal of shipping?

To Pokemon fans especially.

I get shipping in communities, you like characters or project onto them, etc, but with Pokemon especially I've noticed an extreme obsession. And this is perplexing to me because, as I've stated numerous times, 99% of Pokemon characters, game or anime (but mostly the latter) are blocks of wood. They barely have personalities to begin with. So, are they seeing something in not, but what is the appeal of which block of wood ends up with another? Fans themselves regularly admit to characters being flat, so... That, and the fact the series has never focused on romance at all....I'm quite perplexed at where this fervor of it originated and what the appeal is.

Also of note is that most of the lead cast are children, further complicating the appeal to me. Now they're 10 year old planks of wood. I'm very confused.

My only idea is Ash is so blank, he's a self insert for viewers. Guys want to be him and around all the girls like him, and girls can project any appealing traits onto him without worry. And the girls are drawn closer to high schools, so I think it's just which design of them is most appealing, because there's not much more to go on.

I'm not trying to insult shippers, these are just my thoughts and questions. Please, I'd like to know, what is so appealing to you about Pokemon shipping? I'd like to understand at least the thought processes.

I want to add, that especially in the case of flat characters, shippers generally latch onto the most superficial evidence to justify their claims.
Some ones I've seen range from "One time they held hands!" or "They've done a big thing together" or even "admitted to just being close".
None of which to me is definitive proof of anything in any story. I see it more as grasping at straws to verify one's own set outcome. IE, you've decided Misty loves Ash, so you're gonna justify it any way that you can.

Characters can have chemistry, be close, or even awkward around someone without denoting romantic intentions. It just depends on the characters themselves, but if it is important to the narrative, it's generally very obvious and heavily implied or outrightly stated. Never left up to speculation.

So when it doesn't even matter, on top with all the other issues I've stated with characters in this series, I have to ask again what the appeal is.

I always thought it was just an expression of fan's emotion involvement in the relationship of two (or more) characters in a show, and/or a product of their attachment to said characters. It's something that adds a little more depth to a show that is otherwise painfully lacking in said depth due to its repetitive nature.

Some people find it fun to endlessly scour episodes for "hints" of romantic interaction and conjure up what-if scenarios, I guess. It's a pretty prominent aspect of any fandom, not just Pokemon. There is still an antiquated viewpoint in society in general that romantic relationships are the most fulfilling kind of relationships - which they can be I suppose, but they don't HAVE to be - and everyone wants to see more character development for the characters that they like. Perhaps it's just in the nature of some people to be hopeless romantics, too.

Pokemon fans are no more extreme than any other kind of fans, really. If you're noticing that in particular, it's because you're on a Pokemon forum, and like minds have a tendency to congregate. Go somewhere else and you'll notice more obsessive shipping for something else...Tumblr is a breeding ground for rabid shipping in pretty much every fandom.

Meyneth said:

I always thought it was just an expression of fan's emotion involvement in the relationship of two (or more) characters in a show, and/or a product of their attachment to said characters. It's something that adds a little more depth to a show that is otherwise painfully lacking in said depth due to its repetitive nature.

Some people find it fun to endlessly scour episodes for "hints" of romantic interaction and conjure up what-if scenarios, I guess. It's a pretty prominent aspect of any fandom, not just Pokemon. There is still an antiquated viewpoint in society in general that romantic relationships are the most fulfilling kind of relationships - which they can be I suppose, but they don't HAVE to be - and everyone wants to see more character development for the characters that they like. Perhaps it's just in the nature of some people to be hopeless romantics, too.

Pokemon fans are no more extreme than any other kind of fans, really. If you're noticing that in particular, it's because you're on a Pokemon forum, and like minds have a tendency to congregate. Go somewhere else and you'll notice more obsessive shipping for something else...Tumblr is a breeding ground for rabid shipping in pretty much every fandom.

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Very true, but it's not just because I'm on a Pokemon forum. For Pokemon, it's almost impossible for fans to mention a male and female character together and not imply shipping them.

That's stuck out, especially with this series, as there's little of substance to grasp onto character wise. Other fandoms with better writing and characters, I get. Pokemon shipping remains an enigma for me though.

Enpatsu Shakugan said:

To Pokemon fans especially.

I get shipping in communities, you like characters or project onto them, etc, but with Pokemon especially I've noticed an extreme obsession. And this is perplexing to me because, as I've stated numerous times, 99% of Pokemon characters, game or anime (but mostly the latter) are blocks of wood. They barely have personalities to begin with. So, are they seeing something in not, but what is the appeal of which block of wood ends up with another?

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While I do agree that certain pokemon characters lack any sort of uniqueness in terms of personality, I feel that it's quite a reach to state that nearly all of them are like this. Perhaps you view things differently, but I see that a lot of the characters in the series have dimension, and are full of passion, determination, and drive. You make it seem like they all are stony-faced and stoic, sitting around, contributing nothing to the storyline whatsoever. When this is incredibly false. Sure, compared to other series, pokemon characters may appear annoyingly repetitive and seem to lack complexity, but you can't fully discredit them. Also, you have to keep in mind the context, the anime specifically appeals to children, not adults. The games, on the other hand, have a slightly different demographic, as they are designed so that children can play them as well as adults.

Now, in terms of shipping, it's something I may have participated in when I was 11, but I can admit now that I can't quite conceptualize it, or understand the obsession with it. Not to say that there's anything wrong with it, though. It's fascinating, really.

Enpatsu Shakugan said:

Very true, but it's not just because I'm on a Pokemon forum. For Pokemon, it's almost impossible for fans to mention a male and female character together and not imply shipping them.

That's stuck out, especially with this series, as there's little of substance to grasp onto character wise. Other fandoms with better writing and characters, I get. Pokemon shipping remains an enigma for me though.

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"Better" is purely a subjective matter, though. Name any show at all where shipping is fairly prominent, and anyone can argue for or against that show having better writing and characters than Pokemon...and people probably would, too. But there is no objective way to measure that.

That said, if you see things that way, have you ever considered that it is precisely because of the lack of substance to the characters that shipping is so popular? It's the lack of concrete definition that makes shipping such a fun activity in some circles, because there is nothing to say it couldn't or wouldn't happen, other than logic...and emotion and logic have never gone hand in hand.

The writers won't deny it, so it's a free-for-all because of that lack of substance and the subjectivity of the entire thing. Some people do take it as an absolute, but that kind of extremism is a very small minority, I think. Just a very vocal minority that seems bigger than it actually is, mostly because they're the kinds of people who will create and flood topics and make a more lasting impression.

It's a completely acceptable show for kids, but it seems adults are the ones mostly shipping.

I'm unsure of the appeal for adults to be shipping characters who are children show level of writing, and kids themselves.
I don't mean everyone is the same, I mean they lack any qualities to wonder past what's presented.
For example, can you describe Dawn's personality past a sentence? Who is she as a person?

The only characters I've seen in the anime that come close to having any kind of layers are Team Rocket. And that was only early material. They're just comedic relief now.

Meyneth said:

"Better" is purely a subjective matter, though. Name any show at all where shipping is fairly prominent, and anyone can argue for or against that show having better writing and characters than Pokemon...and people probably would, too. But there is no objective way to measure that.

That said, if you see things that way, have you ever considered that it is precisely because of the lack of substance to the characters that shipping is so popular? It's the lack of concrete definition that makes shipping such a fun activity in some circles, because there is nothing to say it couldn't or wouldn't happen, other than logic...and emotion and logic have never gone hand in hand.

The writers won't deny it, so it's a free-for-all because of that lack of substance and the subjectivity of the entire thing. Some people do take it as an absolute, but that kind of extremism is a very small minority, I think. Just a very vocal minority that seems bigger than it actually is, mostly because they're the kinds of people who will create and flood topics and make a more lasting impression.

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That's a good point. To use shipping to spice it up. Never thought of that. I can sort of see the appeal in that. But are they aware that's the reason they're doing it?

I'm sorry, I understand where you both are coming from, but all you're doing is speculating. You're attempting to draw conclusions without any sort of basis.

Perhaps you should engage in conversation with someone who is an active shipper? Just a thought.

Enpatsu Shakugan said:

That's a good point. To use shipping to spice it up. Never thought of that. I can sort of see the appeal in that. But are they aware that's the reason they're doing it?

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Well, it would depend on the individual, no? Some people no doubt participate in shipping because they genuinely feel that these characters are romantically attracted to one another based on the evidence in the show - it just hasn't been stated outright because of the nature of the show. They won't be aware of it, because that's not how they see it.

That isn't too ridiculous an assumption either when you think about it, as there are plenty of other shows for children that have adult themes and makes jokes or references that only older people would understand, or contain mature themes that children wouldn't notice...Pokemon itself does this on occasion, even. Some would argue that there is adequate substance and depth for this, and there isn't really anything to say they're wrong. Nothing to say they're right either, that said.

The nice thing is that there is actually a lot of basis and evidence for shipping present in the anime, if you wish to take it as such - have you ever read the shipping articles on Bulbapedia? There are a lot of instances of interaction that could, in real life, be taken as indicators for romantic interaction...or they could just be indicators of friendship. Or just things that happened in the show that have no special significance. It really depends on how you want to look at it. Shipping isn't about making stuff up to suit, it's just another interpretation of events that have actually happened in the show.

Ninetales2000 said:

I'm sorry, I understand where you both are coming from, but all you're doing is speculating. You're attempting to draw conclusions without any sort of basis.

Perhaps you should engage in conversation with someone who is an active shipper? Just a thought.

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Actually, I'm trying to present it in a way that could be understandable/enjoyable to someone who doesn't understand or see the purpose in it, or think there is adequate substance. I'm not attempting to draw any kind of definite conclusion, because it wouldn't be possible - everyone is going to have different reasons for doing things. Most people probably don't even think about it, or just find it a fun activity. Maybe you should try reading my post more closely, rather than just assuming that I have no basis for my thoughts because it is something that you personally do not agree with.

I used to be an active shipper, so I can see the reasons why people may ship, generally speaking. I even find it fun from time to time if it's just speculation and doesn't get too heated, actually.

Ninetales2000 said:

I'm sorry, I understand where you both are coming from, but all you're doing is speculating. You're attempting to draw conclusions without any sort of basis.

Perhaps you should engage in conversation with someone who is an active shipper? Just a thought.

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I made the topic hoping some would post, so we'll see.

Meyneth said:

Well, it would depend on the individual, no? Some people no doubt participate in shipping because they genuinely feel that these characters are romantically attracted to one another based on the evidence in the show - it just hasn't been stated outright because of the nature of the show. They won't be aware of it, because that's not how they see it.

That isn't too ridiculous an assumption either when you think about it, as there are plenty of other shows for children that have adult themes and makes jokes or references that only older people would understand, or contain mature themes that children wouldn't notice...Pokemon itself does this on occasion, even. Some would argue that there is adequate substance and depth for this, and there isn't really anything to say they're wrong. Nothing to say they're right either, that said.

The nice thing is that there is actually a lot of basis and evidence for shipping present in the anime, if you wish to take it as such - have you ever read the shipping articles on Bulbapedia? There are a lot of instances of interaction that could, in real life, be taken as indicators for romantic interaction...or they could just be indicators of friendship. Or just things that happened in the show that have no special significance. It really depends on how you want to look at it. Shipping isn't about making stuff up to suit, it's just another interpretation of events that have actually happened in the show.

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Hmm, I think that's my biggest problem with shipping. The desperatation in confirming it.

To me, a lot of evidence provided doesn't denote real romantic interest or even chemistry. For example, a character blushing from another could mean a lot more than just obvious romantic pairing.
Embarrassment or very situational circumstances like that, or even just mere sexual attraction only and not even romantic.

Human feelings are so much more complicated than that, to be sure a character wants to spend their life with someone and are fully in LOVE simply because they held hands once or even went on a single date: it's all very simplistic for me.

Enpatsu Shakugan said:

Hmm, I think that's my biggest problem with shipping. The desperatation in confirming it.

To me, a lot of evidence provided doesn't denote real romantic interest or even chemistry. For example, a character blushing from another could mean a lot more than just obvious romantic pairing.
Embarrassment or very situational like that, or even just sexual attraction only and not romantic.

Human feelings are so much more complicated than that, to be sure a character wants to spend their life with someone simply because they held hands once or even went on a single date. It's all very simplistic for me.

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Some people take it to greater lengths than others, admittedly, but I don't think the majority of shippers are like that. At most, things will get a little heated when people try to decide, for example, whether Ash has more romantic interaction with Misty or, say, Serena. "Shipping wars" is a very dramatic term to describe what is often a basic disagreement.

...that said, as someone who doesn't really have that emotional attachment but enjoys the debate sometimes, maybe it's just me who doesn't get involved when things get that heated. I don't see the point in getting worked up over a show.

That's a perfectly valid stance to take, I think...maybe that's why you have difficulty understand why people ship characters, or it doesn't appeal to you. If you don't see it, why would you get any enjoyment out of it? I think that's perfectly fine, and I think plenty of people would even agree with you on some points.

Sometimes they are. But equally, sometimes they are not. That's part of the appeal too, I think - human emotions are unpredictable. There are as many different emotional interpretations as there are people.

Meyneth said:

Actually, I'm trying to present it in a way that could be understandable/enjoyable to someone who doesn't understand or see the purpose in it, or think there is adequate substance. I'm not attempting to draw any kind of definite conclusion, because it wouldn't be possible - everyone is going to have different reasons for doing things. Most people probably don't even think about it, or just find it a fun activity. Maybe you should try reading my post more closely, rather than just assuming that I have no basis for my thoughts because it is something that you personally do not agree with.

I used to be an active shipper, so I can see the reasons why people may ship, generally speaking. I even find it fun from time to time if it's just speculation and doesn't get too heated, actually.

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I wasn't "assuming" anything. I was just offering a mere suggestion, given that you seemed so inquisitive. I understand that you're trying to make sense of the topic, which is why I simply said that it would be significantly easier to do so if you conversed with an active member of the shipping community. Considering that none of them are currently contributing to this conversation, I suppose you'll have to be patient in order to do so. Moreover, I didn't state that I disagreed with anything that you mentioned, now did I? You're the one making an assumption, hun.

Meyneth said:

Some people take it to greater lengths than others, admittedly, but I don't think the majority of shippers are like that. At most, things will get a little heated when people try to decide, for example, whether Ash has more romantic interaction with Misty or, say, Serena. "Shipping wars" is a very dramatic term to describe what is often a basic disagreement.

...that said, as someone who doesn't really have that emotional attachment but enjoys the debate sometimes, maybe it's just me who doesn't get involved when things get that heated. I don't see the point in getting worked up over a show.

That's a perfectly valid stance to take, I think...maybe that's why you have difficulty understand why people ship characters, or it doesn't appeal to you. If you don't see it, why would you get any enjoyment out of it? I think that's perfectly fine, and I think plenty of people would even agree with you on some points.

Sometimes they are. But equally, sometimes they are not. That's part of the appeal too, I think - human emotions are unpredictable. There are as many different emotional interpretations as there are people.

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On the contrary, I find great appeal in imagining characters having feelings for others and reading between the lines to find it. I don't look for the fairytale kind of love, rather just to further analyze characters.

And in games like Fire Emblem, where your own customizable protagonist can be 'shipped' with anyone, as is true with any of the playable characters, I actually have gotten into a few arguments over the validity of certain pairs.

But for Pokemon... I can't say it holds any appeal for me at all in that respect. To go ahead and make marriage topics for them when they're barely 10 just borders more on creepy to me.

Enpatsu Shakugan said:

On the contrary, I find great appeal in imagining characters having feelings for others and reading between the lines to find it. I don't look for the fairytale kind of love, rather just to further analyze characters.

And in games like Fire Emblem, where your own customizable protagonist can be 'shipped' with anyone, as is true with any of the playable characters, I actually have gotten into a few arguments over the validity of certain pairs.

But for Pokemon... I can't say it holds any appeal for me at all in that respect. To go ahead and make marriage topics for them when they're barely 10 just borders more on creepy to me.

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Interesting that you'd bring up Fire Emblem...let's just say I could take your viewpoint of shipping Pokemon with that series and leave it at that, haha.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, what you object to is the presentation of the characters (i.e. as underage who get sparse character development over a lot of episodes) rather than shipping itself? If so, I guess all I would say is that some people see in Pokemon what you see in games like Fire Emblem, and that age doesn't matter very much to people sometimes where the characters are fictional and being paired with people their own age.

Age isn't something a lot of people think of when it comes to romance, unless there is an age gap or there are more intimate acts involved...which I don't think there are in the vast majority of cases. Maybe marriage is a teensy bit extreme, but things are often worded this way.

Well, no, it's more the writing than anything. My main beef is just I don't see the appeal of getting invested in shipping planks of wood together, let alone ones that are kids too. Double whammy.

Keep in mind too, with FE, it was never an obsessive passion for me. The way I am, I prefer continuity greatly, so in gaming where I play as a set character, I almost always play as the character themselves. If they wouldn't do it, I don't. I get very adamant that I'm watching a story, thus it must be consistent.

I read a lot into FE characters, and was sure my own pairings fit the characters best and was also the best story. Tharja with Virion, for example. But of course, that's what everyone thinks with their preferences, haha.
Anyway, that's the reason I found myself arguing sometimes. Story integrity moreso than YOU'RE DENYING THEM FOREVER!! 1

Figure I?d weigh in due to largely ignoring the Anime for roughly 15 years. Not to say I didn?t keep tabs on it(I knew about May, Max, Dawn, Iris and Cilan) but I didn?t become engrossed or involved until XY/XYZ peaked my interest. The Anime has always teased pairings or shippings but they never come right out and say this person and this person will end up together because they?ve removed the aspect of Time. Since Time doesn?t seem to exist, all the characters are perpetually 10. It?s due to this absence of time, as I see it, that causes fans of this Anime to pair up characters that they like. For without this, their interest in the show is not as strong and therefore loses it?s staying power. I mean you?ve commented that it?s mostly adults doing the shipping right? Well what better way to justify spending time watching the Anime than to pair characters up. It?s in our nature to group together in pairs and we project our desires onto the characters themselves. Kind of disturbing seeing as these are fictional characters(much less 10 year olds) but it?s a way to keep our interest in the Anime as I see it.

The most obvious shipping, and one that drew back legions of fans back to the Anime, was AshxSerena(aka Amourshipping). The writers even admit that they purposely added a Romantic subplot to XY/XYZ, which only made the shipping more tangible or likely compared to previous series/characters. Yet like all shippings before it, Amourshipping will likely never come to fruition due to the curse of Time. Even the infamous kiss doesn?t do the shipping any favors because while it?s a unique milestone, it still doesn?t solve the time paradox. Unless they have an Episode where Ash travels in Time and sees his future self with someone we recognize, similar to how May traveled back in Time in AG, then all we have is our desires(some of whIce devolve into toxic and rather personal fights rather than debates(aka shipping wars)).

Thanks for mentioning the anime did include a romantic plot in XY. That's surprising and I stopped watching entirely in DP so I had no idea.

In that case, wanting a coupling makes sense.