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Will Serena actually be in the sun and moon anime?

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    • Seen Aug 29, 2020
    The poll is just that, a poll, it means nothing.

    As for Iris not returning, I think that has more to do with her game counterpart becoming Champion than anything.

    Polls are released to determine fan reactions, and thus determine what they ought to do next. Otherwise, there's zero point to doing a poll at all. If I were the writers/Pok?mon Company, and I were to do a poll for fans to participate in, I'd be honor-bound to make sure that whoever gets the top ranks gets a return, whether it's Misty or not. Plus, don't forget, this isn't merely a poll made by fans on an internet forum, this was an official poll made by the Pok?mon Company, so this definitely would qualify as pretty important and something to take into account.

    Still, that seems to be a far better explanation than simply Iris being unpopular, especially when unpopularity never stopped Max and Tracey from getting cameos.
     
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    Amourshipping was never anything more than a marketing gimmick, IMO. I still can't believe that so many fans bought into it being canon and even thought that Serena would come to Alola with Ash.

    (Of course, many of those same people also thought that he'd win the Kalos League. Talk about naive.)

    Serena will be left behind and forgotten, just like every other past traveling companion. As far as TPTB are concerned, she did her "job" of advertising XY, and now that Gen 6 is over, she's no longer needed. It should be clear now that traveling companions are only as valuable as their ability to market the current games, and they are infinitely disposable and replaceable just like the regions and characters in the games. Watch Lillie & Co. also get tossed into the waste bin as soon as Gen 8 comes out. It's an infinite, neverending cycle.

    Based on XY's lack of any past character cameos, it doesn't look like companions will even get the token post-series appearance (ala. Misty in AG, May in DP, Dawn in BW) anymore. SM's drastic shift in art style also strongly argues against bringing back any past characters.
     
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    Lillie at least has some modicum of a chance as she's the first companion to also be a major character in the games (and she's getting TONS of merchandise made of her), and the end of the game seemed to be setting her up for a future appearance, but yes, the rest have no shot of ever being seen again.

    And yes, Amour was definitely a marketing gimmick. You could tell by the clickbait episode titles ("date" episode where they don't actually go on a date, "dance party" episode where they dance with everyone EXCEPT each other) and the fact that it got pretty much no development until that last-minute kiss show that they didn't actually care about it at all and were merely using it as a marketing gimmick in an attempt to boost their falling ratings. And it clearly didn't work.

    The kiss and Yajima's "interview" saying that you're supposed to assume they'll become a couple in the future (like that matters in a never-ending series where the characters never age) were blatant shallow fanservice. Furthermore, Yajima is no longer the director of the anime (SM has a new director), so his word doesn't mean much now.

    Right now though, Lillie is a big hit, and they're got tons of merchandise of her ready to be sold.
     
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    Lillie at least has some modicum of a chance as she's the first companion to also be a major character in the games (and she's getting TONS of merchandise made of her), and the end of the game seemed to be setting her up for a future appearance, but yes, the rest have no shot of ever being seen again.

    And yes, Amour was definitely a marketing gimmick. You could tell by the clickbait episode titles ("date" episode where they don't actually go on a date, "dance party" episode where they dance with everyone EXCEPT each other) and the fact that it got pretty much no development until that last-minute kiss show that they didn't actually care about it at all and were merely using it as a marketing gimmick in an attempt to boost their falling ratings. And it clearly didn't work.

    The kiss and Yajima's "interview" saying that you're supposed to assume they'll become a couple in the future (like that matters in a never-ending series where the characters never age) were blatant shallow fanservice. Furthermore, Yajima is no longer the director of the anime (SM has a new director), so his word doesn't mean much now.

    Right now though, Lillie is a big hit, and they're got tons of merchandise of her ready to be sold.

    Correct me if I'm mistaken, but weren't Serena, May, and Dawn player characters in the games? Last I checked, player characters ARE major characters since there literally wouldn't be a game without them.

    And I wouldn't say that Brock, Misty, and Serena have no shot. After all, they made the top three in that poll released during the leadup to Movie 20, distributed by the Pokémon Company, and the question specifically pertained to which one was most desirable for a return. If any of the past characters are going to have a return, it's Brock, Serena, and Misty.

    I do agree with you and Betty on Amourshipping, though. It was about as much clickbait as the teaser that Season 26 of The Simpsons would feature a death of a major character as its premiere episode. Never made ANY advancements and was a one-sided crush on Serena's end at most (honestly, I'm no Pokeshipper, yet even I could see it being more plausible to happen than Amourshipping ever could).

    Based on XY's lack of any past character cameos, it doesn't look like companions will even get the token post-series appearance (ala. Misty in AG, May in DP, Dawn in BW) anymore. SM's drastic shift in art style also strongly argues against bringing back any past characters.

    Maybe. But on the other hand, going by this poll here, I wouldn't rule out a reappearance from at least Brock, Serena, and/or Misty just yet:

    https://s.animeanime.jp/article/2017/05/11/33827.html

    You can read up more here:

    https://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=9644232&postcount=99
     
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    And I wouldn't say that Brock, Misty, and Serena have no shot. After all, they made the top three in that poll released during the leadup to Movie 20, distributed by the Pokémon Company, and the question specifically pertained to which one was most desirable for a return. If any of the past characters are going to have a return, it's Brock, Serena, and Misty.

    I can see why you're hopeful, but I'm not holding my breath. :( You rarely see things come out of polls like that, and it's hard to argue against the status quo with this show. Misty has always been one of Ash's most popular companions, yet that didn't stop them from permanently putting her on a bus after AG. May ranked 4th on that poll and is also very popular, yet she hasn't been seen or heard from since 2008, and they didn't even bring her back to promote ORAS.

    And, do I even need to mention Movie 20, which chucked the extremely popular and iconic Misty, Brock, and Gary in favor of random nobodies? Only this franchise could get away with such a slap in the face to its past and roots.

    Serena's still recent, so she may have a shot, but it's hard to be optimistic about Brock and especially Misty coming back.
     
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    I can see why you're hopeful, but I'm not holding my breath. :( You rarely see things come out of polls like that, and it's hard to argue against the status quo with this show. Misty has always been one of Ash's most popular companions, yet that didn't stop them from permanently putting her on a bus after AG. May ranked 4th on that poll and is also very popular, yet she hasn't been seen or heard from since 2008, and they didn't even bring her back to promote ORAS.

    And, do I even need to mention Movie 20, which chucked the extremely popular and iconic Misty, Brock, and Gary in favor of random nobodies? Only this franchise could get away with such a slap in the face to its past and roots.

    Serena's still recent, so she may have a shot, but it's hard to be optimistic about Brock and especially Misty coming back.

    Yeah, don't remind me about Movie 20's stupidity regarding that (probably the only thing going for it right now is that they're actually focusing on Ho-Oh right now. Beyond that... I'm cynical about the movie's chances and even its quality. And for the record, Gary being chucked is even more infuriating than even Misty's chucking, considering that Gary was Professor Oak's own grandson.).

    And quite frankly, if they're not going to have anything come out of the poll, why even bother doing the poll in the first place (especially when the poll question was pretty specific, who the audience wanted to return)?

    So far as May, normally they go by the top three people in stuff like this. And besides, to be fair, KAORI, May's Japanese voice actress, stopped doing voice acting a long time ago and is a J-Pop singer now (basically, she went Hillary Duff), so her not returning's a bit understandable. I actually have to wonder whether the writers are practically begging for an end to the show, considering just how many people they are ticking off with these actions.
     
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    Yeah, don't remind me about Movie 20's stupidity regarding that (probably the only thing going for it right now is that they're actually focusing on Ho-Oh right now. Beyond that... I'm cynical about the movie's chances and even its quality. And for the record, Gary being chucked is even more infuriating than even Misty's chucking, considering that Gary was Professor Oak's own grandson.).

    I don't know what Movie 20's even trying to achieve. If they wanted to do a standard Event Promotion Movie for Marshadow, then why not just set it in Alola and use the SM cast? And, why go through the trouble of invoking OS-era Kanto, yet dump almost all of the iconic original characters in favor of nobodies and random Gen 4 Pokémon? What nostalgic older fan is going to go for that? Frankly, I hope this movie bombs. :rolleyes2:

    And quite frankly, if they're not going to have anything come out of the poll, why even bother doing the poll in the first place (especially when the poll question was pretty specific, who the audience wanted to return)?

    So far as May, normally they go by the top three people in stuff like this. And besides, to be fair, KAORI, May's Japanese voice actress, stopped doing voice acting a long time ago and is a J-Pop singer now (basically, she went Hillary Duff), so her not returning's a bit understandable. I actually have to wonder whether the writers are practically begging for an end to the show, considering just how many people they are ticking off with these actions.

    This franchise has a long reputation for trolling its fans.

    So, they couldn't have just recast May? It just seems odd that this former main character never returned to promote the remakes she was in. Really, the anime did very little to promote and acknowledge ORAS.

    At this point, pulling the plug may be the best thing they could do for this show. They can only tread the same ground over and over again, and people are tired of Ash being this never-aging twerp who never grows or develops as a person and constantly loses again and again.
     
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    I don't know what Movie 20's even trying to achieve. If they wanted to do a standard Event Promotion Movie for Marshadow, then why not just set it in Alola and use the SM cast? And, why go through the trouble of invoking OS-era Kanto, yet dump almost all of the iconic original characters in favor of nobodies and random Gen 4 Pokémon? What nostalgic older fan is going to go for that? Frankly, I hope this movie bombs. :rolleyes2:

    No kidding, and another thing regarding Marshadow: they just wasted an opportunity for a new movie by including Marshadow in there at all, especially when they already had a sort-of mythical Pokémon to distribute as it is in the form of Ash Hat Pikachu. Besides Magearna (and obviously not counting Ash Hat Pikachu), Marshadow's the only mythical Pokémon they've got left to distribute. And as you can probably guess, Sun and Moon obviously isn't even close to half-way done.

    And considering the hints at there possibly being remakes for Gen V instead of Gen IV, the random promotion of Gen 4 Pokémon is now utterly pointless.



    This franchise has a long reputation for trolling its fans.

    You can say that again.

    So, they couldn't have just recast May? It just seems odd that this former main character never returned to promote the remakes she was in. Really, the anime did very little to promote and acknowledge ORAS.

    Ask Japan. All I know is that they generally retire any characters after their voice actors either leave the show for whatever reason or die, apparently considering the characters the same (they did it with Roy Campbell and Gray Fox after their respective voice actors died, for example). That bit is a bit of a cultural element to Japan (of course, that never necessarily stopped Japan from actually changing voice actors like it did with Gen Fu in Dead or Alive, for example).

    At this point, pulling the plug may be the best thing they could do for this show. They can only tread the same ground over and over again, and people are tired of Ash being this never-aging twerp who never grows or develops as a person and constantly loses again and again.

    Yeah, agreed (even though I'm not happy with this idea since that inevitably means Misty's going to have her chances at continuing her goal be plug-pulled). In fact, the very low ratings should have been evidence that the show's running its course (and the fact that since late Johto the show is being run like a western show rather than actually run by its creators in the sense that executives are clearly in charge of how it is done doesn't help matters either). Not to mention the box office disasters for the Hoopa and Volcanion movies (and I suspect that this upcoming movie would be no different, or IF it's going to get any money, it will be just barely at Diancie's level).
     
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    I can see why you're hopeful, but I'm not holding my breath. :( You rarely see things come out of polls like that, and it's hard to argue against the status quo with this show. Misty has always been one of Ash's most popular companions, yet that didn't stop them from permanently putting her on a bus after AG. May ranked 4th on that poll and is also very popular, yet she hasn't been seen or heard from since 2008, and they didn't even bring her back to promote ORAS.

    And, do I even need to mention Movie 20, which chucked the extremely popular and iconic Misty, Brock, and Gary in favor of random nobodies? Only this franchise could get away with such a slap in the face to its past and roots.

    Serena's still recent, so she may have a shot, but it's hard to be optimistic about Brock and especially Misty coming back.

    Serena's ranking has nothing to do with recency. It was a 3 parts poll where they also asked Japanese their favorite Ash's Pokemon and Greninja got beaten by Infernape, a Pokemon from DP while Greninja is "recent" like you said , same for May who beaten Dawn, Tracey who beaten Bonnie etc... Get over it , Serena IS really popular in Japan, but that doesn't necessary mean that they'll make her come back, at least she has more chances than Iris imo but it's still really unlikely.

    You are all talking about Lillie's merchandises but don't forget that it's 90% about the games not the anime since the merchandises always have Nebby with it... So game Lillie is obviously really popular but anime Lillie? Not really for now.
    Serena got an exclusive merchandise for a Pokegirl which was a music box playing DoriDori and the price is now getting more than 200$ if you want it and do you know why Pokemon did this? Japanese fans asked Bandai to make a music box of Serena.

    Now , for May , the first reason to do a cameo is for fanservice, if the character don't have the voice he/she had when the fans first saw him/her , you basically miss 50% of the fanservice you wanted , that's why May didn't come back and will never come back, her voice actress is done (sadly...).

    Oh and for the Yajima's interview I totally agree that it was for fanservice BUT remember that during the interview a producer of the anime was there... So we can't really know because it's really hard to understand what he meant at the end... Don't forget that he's still involved with the Pokemon anime since he worked for the next movie and the anime staff puts an easter egg in SM029 and animated him... Probably to show that his work is missed or the staff miss him.
     
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    Serena's ranking has nothing to do with recency. It was a 3 parts poll where they also asked Japanese their favorite Ash's Pokemon and Greninja got beaten by Infernape, a Pokemon from DP while Greninja is "recent" like you said , same for May who beaten Dawn, Tracey who beaten Bonnie etc... Get over it , Serena IS really popular in Japan, but that doesn't necessary mean that they'll make her come back, at least she has more chances than Iris imo but it's still really unlikely.

    You are all talking about Lillie's merchandises but don't forget that it's 90% about the games not the anime since the merchandises always have Nebby with it... So game Lillie is obviously really popular but anime Lillie? Not really for now.
    Serena got an exclusive merchandise for a Pokegirl which was a music box playing DoriDori and the price is now getting more than 200$ if you want it and do you know why Pokemon did this? Japanese fans asked Bandai to make a music box of Serena.

    Now , for May , the first reason to do a cameo is for fanservice, if the character don't have the voice he/she had when the fans first saw him/her , you basically miss 50% of the fanservice you wanted , that's why May didn't come back and will never come back, her voice actress is done (sadly...).

    Oh and for the Yajima's interview I totally agree that it was for fanservice BUT remember that during the interview a producer of the anime was there... So we can't really know because it's really hard to understand what he meant at the end... Don't forget that he's still involved with the Pokemon anime since he worked for the next movie and the anime staff puts an easter egg in SM029 and animated him... Probably to show that his work is missed or the staff miss him.

    Don't know whether Serena's actually that popular in Japan, especially when XY was a ratings bomb there (and I have pretty high doubts Serena would get very high in popularity if most people don't even watch XY). I wouldn't be surprised if they were thinking of Manga Serena or even the player character (now THOSE incarnations were definitely popular, especially the latter one if her getting a trophy alongside the male character in XY is anything to go by). Besides, I read up a tumblr thing that indicated that Amourshipping wasn't even all that popular, while Pokeshipping's pretty much still the reigning ship among fans a while back. Besides, a lot of people were acting like Dawn was more popular than Misty and the most popular character ever when DP was occurring, and yet if we go by this poll, she's not even close to that popular, being the second-lowest ranking female lead in terms of popularity (only Iris is less popular than her. I'm not counting Bonnie in this because while she is female, she's not an actual lead, being closer to Max or Tracey in terms of role). Even May is more popular than her, and as this poll shows, Misty outranks May and the others female leads barring Serena. Eventually, she may end up losing that popularity over time, like Dawn did.

    And I'm pretty sure Misty definitely got loads of exclusive merchandise during her run on the show such as figurines and all that stuff, even May and Dawn (and bear in mind, I'm referring to her anime incarnation exclusively), and she managed to get some after her run as well, not counting 20th Anniversary stuff I should add. Heck, Misty even managed to get a trophy in Super Smash Bros. Melee, and not just any incarnation of Misty, either: The trophy was specifically modeled after her anime incarnation, and is the only human Pokémon character besides Professor Oak to get a trophy, and is the only anime character (ie, a character exclusive to the anime) to actually get such a trophy other than possibly Meowth (since the latter had him playing a guitar that was obviously lifted from Pichu Bros. in Party Panic).

    Besides, technically, it's not a popularity poll, it's a poll intended to gauge who of the former leads deserves a return.
     
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    Plus, Brock beat Serena in the poll, and people were pretty tired of Brock by the end of DP.
     
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    Don't know whether Serena's actually that popular in Japan, especially when XY was a ratings bomb there (and I have pretty high doubts Serena would get very high in popularity if most people don't even watch XY). I wouldn't be surprised if they were thinking of Manga Serena or even the player character (now THOSE incarnations were definitely popular, especially the latter one if her getting a trophy alongside the male character in XY is anything to go by). Besides, I read up a tumblr thing that indicated that Amourshipping wasn't even all that popular, while Pokeshipping's pretty much still the reigning ship among fans a while back. Besides, a lot of people were acting like Dawn was more popular than Misty and the most popular character ever when DP was occurring, and yet if we go by this poll, she's not even close to that popular, being the second-lowest ranking female lead in terms of popularity (only Iris is less popular than her. I'm not counting Bonnie in this because while she is female, she's not an actual lead, being closer to Max or Tracey in terms of role). Even May is more popular than her, and as this poll shows, Misty outranks May and the others female leads barring Serena. Eventually, she may end up losing that popularity over time, like Dawn did.

    And I'm pretty sure Misty definitely got loads of exclusive merchandise during her run on the show such as figurines and all that stuff, even May and Dawn (and bear in mind, I'm referring to her anime incarnation exclusively), and she managed to get some after her run as well, not counting 20th Anniversary stuff I should add. Heck, Misty even managed to get a trophy in Super Smash Bros. Melee, and not just any incarnation of Misty, either: The trophy was specifically modeled after her anime incarnation, and is the only human Pokémon character besides Professor Oak to get a trophy, and is the only anime character (ie, a character exclusive to the anime) to actually get such a trophy other than possibly Meowth (since the latter had him playing a guitar that was obviously lifted from Pichu Bros. in Party Panic).

    Besides, technically, it's not a popularity poll, it's a poll intended to gauge who of the former leads deserves a return.

    I'm talking about JAPAN , of course Serena is really popular over there and Amourshipping (satosere) too , it trended on Twitter multiple times and at the end the popularity helped and they gave the fans what they wanted (a kiss), if you are in denial that Serena is popular in Japan (I'm not talking about the west) where she got 2nd in this big poll, all those exclusive expensive merchendise requested by Japanese fans themself and the Pokenchi 20th anniversary which was focused a lot on her , you are just a hater who can't even face the reality , don't even want to talk with you more.

    Now stop those stupid myths saying that XY flopped in Japan , it's getting old and there's no evidence to proove that except stupid ratings that you don't even understand , if XY anime was a flop then S&M is even more a flop.

    Of course Dawn is popular in the west , but in Japan it doesn't seem like that ... Can you stop comparing the west and Japan ? It's two different things , Misty and Pokeshipping are popular in the west (you know , I don't like Pokeshipping but I can admit that it's popular , I'm a mature person unlike you) but in Japan it's not that popular , if it was really popular like you said, Misty would have been in movie 20 as a main character.

    Rad Dudesman -> Again , in THE WEST they were tired of him , nobody has a proof that Japanese fans were tired of Brock , can you guys understand that it's a JAPANESE POLL and that the Japanese have different opinions than yours ?

    At the end it's a popularity poll, the question is "which character do you want Satoshi to travel with again?" Japanese just voted for their favorite characters , for example there's no way I will vote Iris because she didn't get the chance to have a cameo, I will vote for my favorite character obviously SO it's a Japanese popularity poll , can you guys be objective for once in your life ?
     
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    I'm talking about JAPAN , of course Serena is really popular over there and Amourshipping (satosere) too , it trended on Twitter multiple times and at the end the popularity helped and they gave the fans what they wanted (a kiss), if you are in denial that Serena is popular in Japan (I'm not talking about the west) where she got 2nd in this big poll, all those exclusive expensive merchendise requested by Japanese fans themself and the Pokenchi 20th anniversary which was focused a lot on her , you are just a hater who can't even face the reality , don't even want to talk with you more.

    Now stop those stupid myths saying that XY flopped in Japan , it's getting old and there's no evidence to proove that except stupid ratings that you don't even understand , if XY anime was a flop then S&M is even more a flop.

    Of course Dawn is popular in the west , but in Japan it doesn't seem like that ... Can you stop comparing the west and Japan ? It's two different things , Misty and Pokeshipping are popular in the west (you know , I don't like Pokeshipping but I can admit that it's popular , I'm a mature person unlike you) but in Japan it's not that popular , if it was really popular like you said, Misty would have been in movie 20 as a main character.

    Rad Dudesman -> Again , in THE WEST they were tired of him , nobody has a proof that Japanese fans were tired of Brock , can you guys understand that it's a JAPAN POLL and that the Japanese have different opinions than yours ?

    At the end it's a popularity poll, the question is "which character do you want Satoshi to travel with again?" Japanese just voted for their favorite characters , for example there's no way I will vote Iris because she didn't get the chance to have a cameo, I will vote for my favorite character obviously SO it's a Japanese popularity poll , can you guys be objective for once in your life ?

    Again, the tumblr post, which dealt with a Doushinji convention in Japan, indicated otherwise. This is what I'm referring to: http://allthingsmisty.tumblr.com/post/106665584687/about-the-pokeshippingcontestshipping-doujin-was And for the record, I don't hold much favor for Pokeshipping either (and why should I, when it doesn't even deal with love at first sight?), I just have enough sense to realize that Amourshipping was never going to occur (if they wanted to have it occur, don't you think they would have, I don't know, actually made it canon by having Ash actually reciprocate Serena's feelings in ANY way beyond friendship? Even Pokeshipping at least had both parties being jealous when someone else gives their interests' attention), and that even Orangeshipping's more likely to be canon than Amourshipping (and considering the only real hints to it were Daisy's imagine spot for her play and two Luvdisc using attract for the purposes of her play, there's little chance that's going to be canon). This Teppo person was even surprised that an American would express interest in a Pokeshipping doushinji she made especially considering the doushinji in question was four years old at the time, meaning she was not even remotely thinking of American/Western audiences, and this person also verified that she only saw two Amourshipping booths at MOST during that convention. And for the record, Pokeshipping is also pretty popular in Japan as well (why do you THINK the Team Rocket Radio show, which was a massive hit for the Japanese audiences, had Ash and Misty vowing to meet each other again? And that's not even counting that doushinji thing I mentioned earlier and linked to.).

    What makes you think I don't view SM as a flop either? I also view it as a flop (even more of one right now than XY was, I should add), but it doesn't change that XY was a massive flop (don't forget that AG, DP, and even to some extent BW had a lot higher ratings than XY, much less SM did). Also, I AM going by Japanese reception when referring to Dawn, actually. Which fanbase do you THINK those people were referring to way back when DP was airing? It was the Japanese fanbase that they were referring to, not Western fanbases. And for the record, I have an uncle who teaches advertising in the University of North Carolina, and an aunt who actually helmed her own advertising studio, even watched one of her commercials being filmed, so I actually understand a few things about ratings.

    And I'm no hater of Serena, either. Actually, to be honest, unlike May or Dawn (both of whom I actually DO hate), I literally don't give a flying fig about her one way or another, same deal with Iris, since I never actually saw XY or BW to make any determination one way or another, unlike May or Dawn, where I did make an effort to see a couple of episodes/movies with them in it to actually gauge whether I like them or not. She literally means nothing to me. Probably the only real irritation I have about her is the fact that her existence pointlessly retconned the fact that Misty and Molly predated her as childhood friends of Ash, female childhood friends I should say, and that her character was mismanaged for the most part. Beyond those, she could come back or leave permanently for all I care.

    And no, it's not a popularity poll, the question specifically was tasked with whether they wanted characters to return, not whether they actually liked them. If I were to vote in the poll, and I was a massive Misty hater, for example, I'd STILL vote for Misty DESPITE my hatred of her (not that I actually hate her, but going into hypotheticals), precisely because I think, regardless of my personal animosity towards the character, she deserves a return the most because, unlike the other characters, she was never allowed to even pursue her goal, period. Heck, forget hypotheticals, I actually can cite an example of a character who, despite caring nothing about them at all, I do desire a return for: Max. I could care less about his character since he pretty much was left with nothing to do due to being underage and thus can't do even the basics of training. Despite that, I actually want him to return, if only to retcon the stupid development of Ash being 10 years old and actually have him fight Ash as promised. There's a lot more for desiring a return than JUST whether someone likes them or not. If they wanted to know which ones were their favorite, they would have specifically REQUESTED for which favorite it is. Japanese is a precise language, while English is more sloppy. And before you mention the other poll regarding Ash's Pokémon, I suggest you take into account the fact that it specifically asked (AFAIK, anyways) the audiences FAVORITE, not which one they wanted to return, but their actual favorite.
     
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    Again, the tumblr post, which dealt with a Doushinji convention in Japan, indicated otherwise. This is what I'm referring to: http://allthingsmisty.tumblr.com/post/106665584687/about-the-pokeshippingcontestshipping-doujin-was And for the record, I don't hold much favor for Pokeshipping either (and why should I, when it doesn't even deal with love at first sight?), I just have enough sense to realize that it was never going to occur (if they wanted to have it occur, don't you think they would have, I don't know, actually made it canon by having Ash actually reciprocate Serena's feelings in ANY way beyond friendship? Even Pokeshipping at least had both parties being jealous when someone else gives their interests' attention). This Teppo person was even surprised that an American would express interest in a Pokeshipping doushinji, meaning she was not even remotely thinking of American/Western audiences, and this person also verified that she only saw two Amourshipping booths at MOST during that convention.

    What makes you think I don't view SM as a flop either? I also view it as a flop (even more of one right now than XY was, I should add), but it doesn't change that XY was a massive flop (don't forget that AG, DP, and even to some extent BW had a lot higher ratings than XY, much less SM did). Also, I AM going by Japanese reception when referring to Dawn, actually. Which fanbase do you THINK those people were referring to way back when DP was airing? It was the Japanese fanbase that they were referring to, not Western fanbases. And for the record, I have an uncle who teaches advertising in the University of North Carolina, and an aunt who actually helmed her own advertising studio, even watched one of her commercials being filmed, so I actually understand a few things about ratings.

    And I'm no hater of Serena, either. Actually, to be honest, unlike May or Dawn (both of whom I actually DO hate), I literally don't give a flying fig about her one way or another, same deal with Iris, since I never actually saw XY or BW to make any determination one way or another, unlike May or Dawn, where I did make an effort to see a couple of episodes/movies with them in it to actually gauge whether I like them or not. She literally means nothing to me. Probably the only real irritation I have about her is the fact that her existence pointlessly retconned the fact that Misty and Molly predated her as childhood friends of Ash, female childhood friends I should say, and that her character was mismanaged for the most part. Beyond those, she could come back or leave permanently for all I care.

    And no, it's not a popularity poll, the question specifically was tasked with whether they wanted characters to return, not whether they actually liked them. If I were to vote in the poll, and I was a massive Misty hater, for example, I'd STILL vote for Misty DESPITE my hatred of her (not that I actually hate her, but going into hypotheticals), precisely because I think, regardless of my personal animosity towards the character, she deserves a return the most because, unlike the other characters, she was never allowed to even pursue her goal, period. There's a lot more for desiring a return than JUST whether someone likes them or not. If they wanted to know which ones were their favorite, they would have specifically REQUESTED for which favorite it is. Japanese is a precise language, while English is more sloppy.

    Asking a Pokeshipper about Ash and Serena... Seems legit... And one convention don't represent popularity but at the end Pokeshipping is more popular in the west than in Japan, in Japan it's just because of nostalgia just like 90% of Pokeshipping fans (and I follow the anime since the very start , I was actually a Pokeshipper before... until I understand that most of the hints were only dubbed).

    Now...I'm not sure if you watched Ash and Serena's journey but I remember that when I was almost exclusively an Advancer, the measure of success of a ship had much more to do with how well the two characters would work together, not necessarily their relationship on the show. In some cases the two were mutually inclusive, but any quick glance at an array of alternative Dawn shippings would tell you that this isn't always the case. Amour was the first time that the anime ever took a consistent relationship/crush arc for longer than two episodes or so. It's the only pairing with a hint that can't simply be dismissed as shippers reading into it too far, no matter how you view it. I would dare to contest that Amour wasn't really more one-sided than most other Ash pairings, it just appeared to be next to the sheer magnitude of Serena. If amour was truly one sided then all the other big ones are "zero sided" fan concepts (no hate). The way some people go on about it it's as if Serena has a high school crush on some aloof guy who barely acknowledges her existence, while at the same time said guy has feelings for someone else. An example of a truly one sided ship would be one between Serena and Tierno.
    People always say it's one-sided but it's because we primarily see a lot of Serena moments. It's not that we don't see Ash moments because there are many moments, but rather that Serena has so many moments it makes you think Ash didn't have any when it's not the case (watch XY&Z 45 if you want to watch a whole episode focused on Ash's side). Finally , don't forget that Yajima didn't even have to make a comment about Amourshipping in the first place so there's that... people were already hyped/satisfied with the kiss (like, it's not like he was doing damage control after Amour was left unaddressed at the end, which obviously didn't happen), there's no way a director can say what he wants like that, and recently he worked for the movie and the staff animated him and he wasn't even aware until the fans told him, so it prove that he has still a high statut in the Pokemon Japanese company.

    According to Yajima... Amour was created by the guy who produced the firsts movies (1,2,3) and we all know how movie 2 played a big part in Pokeshipping's life (dubbed but still)... Now make it what you want, just wanted to bring this out.

    Now at the end we can agree on one thing and I'm glad : SM is a flop because I still disagree, for me it was about popularity...
    You know , the point was not : "which one is more popular in Japan : Misty or Serena?" My point was just to show you that Serena is popular in Japan , no matter what you want to say but I don't even think her popularity will help her to come back in the show and if that's the case I'm fine with it because it would mean that Lillie won't return either.
     
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    Asking a Pokeshipper about Ash and Serena... Seems legit... And one convention don't represent popularity but at the end Pokeshipping is more popular in the west than in Japan, in Japan it's just because of nostalgia just like 90% of Pokeshipping fans (and I follow the anime since the very start , I was actually a Pokeshipper before... until I understand that most of the hints were only dubbed).

    Now...I'm not sure if you watched Ash and Serena's journey but I remember that when I was almost exclusively an Advancer, the measure of success of a ship had much more to do with how well the two characters would work together, not necessarily their relationship on the show. In some cases the two were mutually inclusive, but any quick glance at an array of alternative Dawn shippings would tell you that this isn't always the case. Amour was the first time that the anime ever took a consistent relationship/crush arc for longer than two episodes or so. It's the only pairing with a hint that can't simply be dismissed as shippers reading into it too far, no matter how you view it. I would dare to contest that Amour wasn't really more one-sided than most other Ash pairings, it just appeared to be next to the sheer magnitude of Serena. If amour was truly one sided then all the other big ones are "zero sided" fan concepts (no hate). The way some people go on about it it's as if Serena has a high school crush on some aloof guy who barely acknowledges her existence, while at the same time said guy has feelings for someone else. An example of a truly one sided ship would be one between Serena and Tierno.
    People always say it's one-sided but it's because we primarily see a lot of Serena moments. It's not that we don't see Ash moments because there are many moments, but rather that Serena has so many moments it makes you think Ash didn't have any when it's not the case (watch XY&Z 45 if you want to watch a whole episode focused on Ash's side).

    Now at the end we can agree on one thing and I'm glad : SM is a flop because I still disagree, for me it was about popularity...
    You know , the point was not : "which one is more popular in Japan : Misty or Serena?" My point was just to show you that Serena is popular in Japan , no matter what you want to say but I don't even think her popularity will help her to come back in the show and if that's the case I'm fine with it because it would mean that Lillie won't return either.

    Actually, there's quite a few instances where Pokeshipping is actually present in the Japanese version. Like, for example, that special Team Rocket Radio Show (which you can see here: http://allthingsmisty.tumblr.com/search/Team+Rocket+Radio), and even Pokémon the Animation by Takeshi Shudo: http://pokeshipping.tumblr.com/post/159370559872/0negirlarmy-after-two-years-in-the-making-im And the second movie was chock full of hints in the Japanese version (in fact, the only Pokeshipping hint there that was actually added in by 4Kids for that film was the "he's a boy and he's a friend, but he's not my boyfriend" exchange between Melody and Misty while rushing to find Ash. The rest was either taken from the Japanese version, or otherwise slightly more emphasized from the original.). In fact, a lot of Pokeshipping hints in the anime were in the original version. Heck, you can find some Japanese hints here: https://web.archive.org/web/2010082...ebs.com/melodystarlight/pokeshippinghints.htm (sorry for x bars, but I had to use an archived version because the original link's currently down.) as well as stuff from animation (which, 4Ever's hints about Oak aside, 4Kids definitely doesn't do stuff like that) as you can see here: http://pokeshipping.tumblr.com/post/88276376532/honestly-when-someone-tries-to-claim-that I might as well add that Team Rocket Radio was fairly recent (at least during the very end of BW if not the beginning of XY), and there'd be no point to adding it in, not even for nostalgia purposes. Also, might as well add, there were a few instances where 4Kids, if anything, outright removed Pokeshipping hints (like the Aerodactyl episode. Misty when digging him out said "Don't you die on me!", while in the Dub, she implies she's only saving him for her bike).

    As far as XY, I haven't even WATCHED XY at all, do you really think I would have watched Ash and Serena's journey? That said, I have observed some details indirectly, and quite frankly, Ash doesn't give ANY romantic inclinations at all to Serena. At most, he just views her as a friend, nothing more. There were a LOT more hints, even in the Japanese version, actually pointing to Pokeshipping than there were Amourshipping, and that's a fact. And here's my idea, if Ash doesn't treat Serena as anything more than a friend, it's one sided, no ifs, ands or buts. He needs to actually reciprocate her feelings for it to be valid. Think The Little Mermaid with Ariel and Eric for a good idea of what I mean, or even how Ron and Hermione acted in Harry Potter (even though I'm not particularly caring for that ship myself). In other words, if they wanted it to be canon, they should have had Serena and Ash actually ENTER a date in that date episode, or have Serena and Ash actually dancing with each other in that dance episode, not simply give a click-bait title like with Misty risking her life hoso or the Luvdisc hoso and have them do the exact opposite.

    And for the record, even Contestshipping was more popular at that doushinji than Amourshipping, and got a lot of decent sales there. And that person who made that post would know, she herself is a Contestshipper. I'm just showing that Amourshipping's not all that popular, whether its compared to Pokeshipping, Contestshipping, or what have you (and for the record, I don't ship unless 1. it's love at first sight, and 2., both characters actually reciprocate such feelings for each other, and more than a just friends manner). And personally, I could care less about whether Serena's more popular than Misty because have no reason to care about Serena at all.

    Glad we can agree on SM, though.

    EDIT: Okay, now Yajima's clearly lying there, because Takeshi Shudo, the guy who created the first three movies, was six feet under long before Amourshipping was even an idea.
     
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    No kidding, and another thing regarding Marshadow: they just wasted an opportunity for a new movie by including Marshadow in there at all, especially when they already had a sort-of mythical Pokémon to distribute as it is in the form of Ash Hat Pikachu. Besides Diancie (and obviously not counting Ash Hat Pikachu), Marshadow's the only mythical Pokémon they've got left to distribute. And as you can probably guess, Sun and Moon obviously isn't even close to half-way done.

    I get the feeling that Gen 7's gonna be a short one. :( Between the lack of Event Pokémon and GF already announcing that they're working on a Switch game, I wouldn't be surprised if we were already staring down the barrel of Gen 8 by 2018.

    Not sure if this is how things had been planned all along, or if Nintendo may have pushed GF to finish Gen 7 early and get to work on Gen 8 because of the Switch coming out. As you said, it would've made sense to have Ash Hat Pikachu be Movie 20's Event, do a new movie with Marshadow in 2018, and then move on to Gen 8 in 2019. The snail's pace that the SM anime is moving at also suggests that it was not in the original plan to finish Gen 7 so early.

    And considering the hints at there possibly being remakes for Gen V instead of Gen IV, the random promotion of Gen 4 Pokémon is now utterly pointless.

    Really? This is news to me. o_O

    I completely agree with you on the random Gen 4 Pokémon, especially Lucario. That thing gets enough promotion and attention as it is, and it almost gets shoved down our throats worse than the likes of Charizard and Mewtwo. At least those two have the excuse of being icons from the Pokémania Era.

    Ask Japan. All I know is that they generally retire any characters after their voice actors either leave the show for whatever reason or die, apparently considering the characters the same (they did it with Roy Campbell and Gray Fox after their respective voice actors died, for example). That bit is a bit of a cultural element to Japan (of course, that never necessarily stopped Japan from actually changing voice actors like it did with Gen Fu in Dead or Alive, for example).

    Guess that means May's gone for good, then? I'm no fan of her, but that's still kind of sad and yet another example of the horrible way this show treats past characters. :(

    Yeah, agreed (even though I'm not happy with this idea since that inevitably means Misty's going to have her chances at continuing her goal be plug-pulled). In fact, the very low ratings should have been evidence that the show's running its course (and the fact that since late Johto the show is being run like a western show rather than actually run by its creators in the sense that executives are clearly in charge of how it is done doesn't help matters either). Not to mention the box office disasters for the Hoopa and Volcanion movies (and I suspect that this upcoming movie would be no different, or IF it's going to get any money, it will be just barely at Diancie's level).

    Ive said it before, but if they were smart, they should've ended Ash's story in Johto and moved on to new protagonists after that. A lot of Johto's own filler and pacing problems stemmed from the fact that it had no storyline or endpoint to work towards (especially once the GS Ball was dropped), and the way that the original characters were all either dropped without closure (Misty) or stagnated into hollow shells of themselves (Ash, Brock, TRio) also makes a case for wrapping up their stories in Johto and giving them good send-offs.

    In fact, I've read that the original plan was to end Ash's story in Johto, likely dropped when RS were announced. The controversy over what happened with Brock/Tracey probably made them scared to retire Ash in favor of a new protagonist in Hoenn, although that still didn't stop them from chucking Misty in favor of May. >_>
     
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    I get the feeling that Gen 7's gonna be a short one. :( Between the lack of Event Pokémon and GF already announcing that they're working on a Switch game, I wouldn't be surprised if we were already staring down the barrel of Gen 8 by 2018.

    To be fair, there's still the possibility of remakes, but yeah.

    Not sure if this is how things had been planned all along, or if Nintendo may have pushed GF to finish Gen 7 early and get to work on Gen 8 because of the Switch coming out. As you said, it would've made sense to have Ash Hat Pikachu be Movie 20's Event, do a new movie with Marshadow in 2018, and then move on to Gen 8 in 2019. The snail's pace that the SM anime is moving at also suggests that it was not in the original plan to finish Gen 7 so early.

    We'll see. I find it suspicious myself that Nintendo would do something like that, especially when the Switch is a console system, while Pokémon's more in the handheld territory. And yeah, Ash has got... what, 2 out of 11 trials done? Possibly 3 by Movie 20 if that mini manga is to be believed?

    Really? This is news to me. o_O

    At least... that's what allthingsmisty seems to believe.

    I completely agree with you on the random Gen 4 Pokémon, especially Lucario. That thing gets enough promotion and attention as it is, and it almost gets shoved down our throats worse than the likes of Charizard and Mewtwo. At least those two have the excuse of being icons from the Pokémania Era.

    Yeah. I'm willing to understand it if it was due to trying to promote remakes of the series, but even there... to do that in the 20th anniversary film?

    Guess that means May's gone for good, then? I'm no fan of her, but that's still kind of sad and yet another example of the horrible way this show treats past characters. :(

    Not fond of May either, and yeah, it's pretty bad that the show treats past characters like they are nothing, heck, less than nothing even (even COTDs get more love than past leads). Still, at least she had it easy compared to Misty. At least she's actually continuing to pursue her goal of becoming Top Coordinator, while Misty's pretty much forced out of her goal of Water Pokémon Master by her sisters (I will never forgive the writers for that).

    Ive said it before, but if they were smart, they should've ended Ash's story in Johto and moved on to new protagonists after that. A lot of Johto's own filler and pacing problems stemmed from the fact that it had no storyline or endpoint to work towards (especially once the GS Ball was dropped), and the way that the original characters were all either dropped without closure (Misty) or stagnated into hollow shells of themselves (Ash, Brock, TRio) also makes a case for wrapping up their stories in Johto and giving them good send-offs.

    To be fair, even Brock at least got SOMETHING out of his goal in Johto with that breeder convention, which is a whole lot better than what he got in AG and DP. And even Ash managed to actually improve in Johto, even face off and beat his rival Gary. That's certainly much better than in AG/BW, where he managed to either just make it to the same rank as before (which, alongside cheapening his one major accomplishment in AG both immediately afterward and during DP with Paul handing Ash's Pikachu his butt twice, the latter time via what was essentially a rookie Pokémon, and reusing May's goal for Dawn, rendered AG to be little more than an extremely pointless Filler saga) or do even WORSE than before, or DP/XY, where they find some cheap way to snatch his victory away even while technically doing better than before, thus circumventing any development he had in the region (and I'd argue that XY was even worse due to the sheer pointlessness behind the loss due to SM lacking any league at all. At least with DP and it screwing Ash over back then, BW did still have a league).

    In fact, I've read that the original plan was to end Ash's story in Johto, likely dropped when RS were announced. The controversy over what happened with Brock/Tracey probably made them scared to retire Ash in favor of a new protagonist in Hoenn, although that still didn't stop them from chucking Misty in favor of May. >_>

    Well, that would certainly explain why they decided to have Ash and Gary face off in the league. And yeah, chucking Misty in favor of May was just bad, not to mention HOW they did so. I could forgive that, and even how they characterized May, if they at least had Misty actually continue to pursue her goal. But, no! Instead of letting Misty pursue her goal, they unceremoniously dumped her at Cerulean Gym, and based on her last appearance in AG, she wanted to leave the gym and Daisy pretty much threatened to hand out badges. And what's worse, they had plenty of golden opportunities to bring Misty in, including the Pokémon World Conference from B2W2 and actually RECTIFY that bit, yet they completely blew them over every single dang time.

    And honestly, I would have taken a replacement for Ash in Hoenn, or heck, actually mentoring Brendan, if it also meant not making the contest thing overly focused-on (especially when doing Contests was more of a side-mission than something actually required to beating the game, unlike gyms and the Pokémon League).

    They chucked Misty because they had to choose between her or the Team Rocket trio.

    Yeah, and quite frankly, that turned out to be a mistake, due to their grossly mishandling them afterwards by making them extremely pathetic and a mere annoyance than a true threat (and even when they do it in BW, they went overboard in the opposite direction). I mean, honestly, even the likes of Farousch, Gaston, Marina del Rey and Ratcliffe from Disney actually DID come across as genuine threats when the time came compared to JJM during AG and DP, and they were probably among the worst Disney villains ever in terms of writing and characterization.

    Bit surprised they didn't even bother to consider axing Brock, though, since he barely did anything in that region, even relating to breeding, which was introduced as a gameplay mechanic in Generation II. Had it been me, I'd probably ax Brock just because they failed to use him for breeding, and thus was useless there.
     
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    She and Misty, not to mention Brock, have far more of a chance to appear than Iris, Dawn, May, Max, Clemont, Dent, Bonnie, and Tracey do, if that poll regarding who they want to return is of any indication.
    The fact that Ash's personality is different makes me think that she will not come back aswell. I can't see Serena falling in love in a childish Ash.
     
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    We still have a chance to see Ash play a "mentor" role if that's indeed what they're trying to do with Lillie in SM.
     
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