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Is chivalry sexist?

Shining Raichu

Shining Raichu

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    • I was listening to the radio on my way to my friend's house the other night and they were discussing this. I made a mental note of it, because I thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss here!

    So yeah, is chivalry sexist or is it charming?

    The interesting discussion point that was brought up is that while most acts of chivalry (opening doors, pulling out chairs, defending a woman's honour etc) are intended good-naturedly, deep down they come from the idea that women are too delicate to do things for themselves, and it might be time for some old-fashioned ways to be updated.

    What are your thoughts?
     
    Livewire

    Livewire

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    • If people interpret it that way. Chivalry is very much open to either interpretation, depending on who you talk to. In the past, maybe a generation or two ago, (Think 1950's America) I would have considered it more or less sexist to a degree. Nowadays I don't know.
     

    NarutoActor

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    • It depends on the person. You should always feel out, the other person, some people like to be strong and independent, while others like that feel of security. I usually always open doors, or pull out chairs (It was how I was raised), but I wouldn't go ultra mid-evil unless I saw that the girl was really into that kind of stuff.

    The only thing that does annoy me is when someone wants both sides. They want you to pay for the bill, and open doors, but they want to choose where to go, and start controlling the whole day.
     
    Mana1

    Mana1

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    It really depends on whether the person would do the same things they do for women as they do for men.

    I open doors for people out of politeness, regardless of sex, and I hope many people do it out of kindness rather than just treating women good.
     
    droomph

    droomph

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    • Well I think "ladies first" is a bit annoying. Other than the fact that they can raise a child, what's so delicate about them that we don't have either?

    But then again, the childbearing thing is probably why we do this in the first place :P

    But I say, everyone first! Reach for that bill (just don't go overboard)! Clean those windows! Hold those doors open! Don't be ashamed to walk through a door somebody's already holding open!

    Anywho, chivalry for both sexes is the basis of a perfect world. (not happy, mind you)

    But if you do it with the mindset that one particular group of people are too weak to fend for themselves, ughhhhhhhh
     
    Nihilego

    Nihilego

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    • I wouldn't say it's got anything to do with women being "weaker" than men. It's just about men being polite and gentlemanly and stuff. Women like that kind of thing and it's just... how it's always worked and really there's nothing particularly bad about men being nice to women. The idea that it's sexist sorta makes sense but just sounds overly picky and trying to force political correctness to me. I mean, if it's sexist to be chivalrous, is it also sexist to not hit women? The genders are different and interact with each other differently. That's just how it is, the way I see it.
     

    BZW Golem

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    • I don't think chivalry is sexist.
    To be honest, I feel that in modern society women are often disrespected so it's nice when someone shows he cares even a little.

    That, and.. well, I and I think not only I, have a sweet spot for gentlemanly stuff.
    You have no idea how freaking happy can a girl be if someone is nice to her ;p
     

    Blade_of_darkness

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    Shining Raichu said:
    So yeah, is chivalry sexist or is it charming?
    Click to expand...

    In my personal experience, it's neither of those things. To me, chivalry is mostly dead, as I seldom see anyone who is like that.

    But then again, I don't see a lot of people, so this'll just be a bunch of empty words.
     
    Kura

    Kura

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    • Not at all! I think it is very charming :3 And I don't think chivalry just has to apply to a guy doing things for a girl. Girls can give a guy roses and do the same thing (serve him a drink, etc)~ It is nice!

    And obviously gay couples can do it to each other, too! I think it is sweet <3 It has nothing to do with women being weaker IMO.
     

    Oryx

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    I can see why some women would find some of the practices sexist, but not in the "women are weaker" sort of way. When I think of chivalry, I think of holding open doors, pulling out chairs, and standing on the side of the sidewalk closer to the street to keep her away from cars. None of these have any connotation of "women are weaker", but they do have a connotation of "women deserve extra respect just for being women", which some women could find offensive.

    That being said, I personally wouldn't find most of it offensive, but I would find it a little weird. Holding open the door for me is nice but I don't like walking first into a place so I would much prefer you walk in and half-hold it open for me from behind so I can catch it. Pulling out a chair is just strange to me, and I don't think I would notice if someone tried to stay on the street side of the sidewalk.

    Paying for food however is its own kettle of fish. I have a job, and I don't have much money but I do have a bit. But for me, the idea of splitting the bill means that you don't care about each other that much. Like, I split the bill with my friends because we're hanging out as friends and we're not in a relationship, so our money is considered our own and not mutual, we're all separate entities. When you get deeply into a relationship, a man shouldn't pay for everything on his own but there shouldn't be some kind of power struggle over money. It should just be something that comes naturally, if one person doesn't have cash on them one day, the other person picks it up, and vice versa. At least, that's how it should be with me. I admit that mostly my boyfriend pays for things, because he has more money than me so he doesn't mind spending it as much, but it works for me and I help out when I can.
     

    Jiggly Jello

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    • I don't find it sexist all. I think it can be an empty gesture for some and that is one of the truly sad things about the current times. When a man is being chivalrous and actually means it (not just trying to impress a date) it is out of a genuine politeness that should not be taken any way but as such. With all the violence and general lack of humanity in the world today, I say there should be more chivalry in the world.
     

    Oryx

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    Jiggly_Jello said:
    I don't find it sexist all. I think it can be an empty gesture for some and that is one of the truly sad things about the current times. When a man is being chivalrous and actually means it (not just trying to impress a date) it is out of a genuine politeness that should not be taken any way but as such. With all the violence and general lack of humanity in the world today, I say there should be more chivalry in the world.
    Click to expand...

    I wouldn't go so far as to dictate how other people should take something though, even if you believe it's not sexist. I was looking up 'examples of chivalry' and one of them is to order for a woman in a date. Can't you see how a woman might be offended by that? Or even the payment - it's a gesture of politeness but it could easily be taken as "I don't think women should have money, so I'll cover this", considering the original reason for that was that women actually didn't have money because women never worked.

    Anyway the point I'm making is that you can still believe it's not sexist without telling other people how they should react to "chivalrous" acts.
     
    Esper

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    • I think most people act "chivalrous" (holding doors, pulling chairs, etc.) out of what they believe to be politeness, but that doesn't mean it isn't still sexist or has sexist underpinnings. It all has to do with the relationship someone has wit another person. If it's something between couples then that their business and they can act how they like with each other. When it comes to strangers it's presumptuous to assume someone wants that kind of attention, or that someone won't mind your display of masculinity. It's a little act, and by doing it you're forcing someone to play along without really knowing if they want to. When you get down to it there's no basis for doing a lot of these things. If you want to be polite then hold open doors for everyone if you happen to be by a door, give up your seat on the bus/train/subway for the first person who seems burdened by whatever they're doing/carrying, and so on.
     

    TRIFORCE89

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    • Shining Raichu said:
    [/B]The interesting discussion point that was brought up is that while most acts of chivalry (opening doors, pulling out chairs, defending a woman's honour etc) are intended good-naturedly, deep down they come from the idea that women are too delicate to do things for themselves, and it might be time for some old-fashioned ways to be updated.
    Click to expand...
    I've never seen it as thinking their "delicate", I've just always seen as being polite. If they don't like it, you stop. No biggie.

    I think the problem would be more with someone being offended by it rather than someone doing it
     

    Kanto_Johto

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    • I agree that acts of chivalry can sometimes be taken the wrong way, but they shouldn't be. I see it as completely unfair to accuse someone of being a sexist just because they were acting out of kindness solely to show their love/fondness/respect for a particular person.

    If I hold a door open for a woman or stand up for/support a woman's honour, I'm doing it out of kindness, helpfulness and respect. Not because I think "Oh, well this retarded woman is clearly too much of an idiot to be able to do things herself. I'll just intervene and do everything for her."

    So yeah, it shouldn't be regarded as sexist, in my opinion.
     
    Last edited:

    Jiggly Jello

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    • Toujours said:


    I wouldn't go so far as to dictate how other people should take something though, even if you believe it's not sexist. I was looking up 'examples of chivalry' and one of them is to order for a woman in a date. Can't you see how a woman might be offended by that? Or even the payment - it's a gesture of politeness but it could easily be taken as "I don't think women should have money, so I'll cover this", considering the original reason for that was that women actually didn't have money because women never worked.

    Anyway the point I'm making is that you can still believe it's not sexist without telling other people how they should react to "chivalrous" acts.
    Click to expand...

    When I said "it should not be taken any way but as such" I did not mean to imply that is how it should be, like a command. It was part of a thought I was trying to express, only I worded it wrong.

    Unfortunately I cannot seem properly articulate what I had actually attempted to express there. All I can say is that I did not intend for that to sound like it did.
     

    TRIFORCE89

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    • Toujours said:


    I wouldn't go so far as to dictate how other people should take something though, even if you believe it's not sexist. I was looking up 'examples of chivalry' and one of them is to order for a woman in a date. Can't you see how a woman might be offended by that? Or even the payment - it's a gesture of politeness but it could easily be taken as "I don't think women should have money, so I'll cover this", considering the original reason for that was that women actually didn't have money because women never worked.

    Anyway the point I'm making is that you can still believe it's not sexist without telling other people how they should react to "chivalrous" acts.
    Click to expand...
    lol Who on earth would that? That is so douchey

    I think that probably most often if you show up on a first date and announce "I'm not paying", you're probably going to be in more trouble then if you offered to pay. It's... kind of expected in the majority case and a deal breaker often times if you don't do it. But, at the same time - that doesn't hold true for every couple of course. And increasingly so. Offer to be polite the first time and cover your bases, if they don't like that idea - then don't proceed to do it. XD It's very easy. You pay your own, or you split evenly, or she pays for bother, or however she wants to do it. It's such a minute detail.
     
    Golurks Were Meant to Fly

    Golurks Were Meant to Fly

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    • I don't find it sexist unless of course it's done in a sexist way. (i.e. grabbing a woman's books because they're "too heavy" or something of that sort.) I think chivalry should come from both people, because in this day and age we are supposed to be equal. And I believe politeness should know no bounds or whatever. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case which is why chivalry often comes off as sexist.

    I don't mind being courteous and polite, but what irks me about chivalry is when it's "expected" and gender roles or whatever come into play. That kinda pisses me off, as one can't have their cake and eat it too, yet some girls I know try to anyway, acting all feminist but still wanting to be a damsel in distress?! Blech.
     
    Captain Fabio

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    • It isn't sexiest at all. It is just a gentleman being kind to a woman. I heard some women talking about this a while back and it annoyed the hell out of me. They first said how they could open their own doors and didn't need someone to pull out their chair, then moaned when the guy before them didn't hold the door open when they were leaving.​
    ​
     

    Jorah

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    Holding doors open is what decent people do and should just do for anyone, I don't understand why that seems to always be classified under chivalry. I just think that people should be nice and polite to each other. Whether I'm being compared to men or other women, I acknowledge I'm pretty weak, so I always appreciate it if someone offers to help with carrying heavy stuff. If there were someone weaker than me struggling, I'd be happy to offer help as well. Everyone: just be nice to everyone.
     
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