When should the series have ended?

Forget commercial purposes and the needs of the fans for
the series to cover every new game. From a writing point
of view, when was it the best moment for it to end?
I think it was the orange league. Ash finally stopped being
a goofy trainer, earning Charizard's obedience, defeated
an undefeated trainer (Drake), won a trophy and proved
his worth. We know he'll never win one again, that orange
league was the peak of what he could achieve. All in all, it
was the perfect full cycle of Ashes growth and development
since he left Pallet with Pikachu.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have had Johto/Hoehnn etc
seasons, but it should have been with new protagonists.

Ash's growth as a trainer began to bloom in AG so no, it shouldn't have ended in OS. I'd say it should've ended in DP as Ash got tons of character development and he was an enough experted trainer and his team was strong. They even need to add a Gary Stu character to get rid of him so he couldn't win the Sinnoh league and this was the first time they did something like this. He also happened to be the 2nd strongest trainer in such major competition.

However, I would've also been alright if they ended the series in AG with Ash accepting BF offer as the main brain. Ash's growth in that point was also enough to end the series. Problem lies They never let Ash win and so they won't until the series is over which probably won't happen in 50 years right away.

Honestly, I'd say it should have ended, if not in OS, then CERTAINLY in DP or XY. Quite frankly, I'm not even going to touch AG or BW, especially considering how much of a complete mess those turned out to be (turning the gym leaders into pansies, not to mention Ash staying at EXACTLY the same rank as in Johto, even worse in the case of BW), and don't get me started on SM, where they didn't bother to focus on Ash's goal until at the very least half-way through the show when they, I don't know, actually HAD the teacher decide to hold the first annual Alola league thanks in large part to Misty and Brock.

DP wouldn't have made a good series finale, because the Sinnoh region felt incomplete and it also treated Ash's wins like an joke. The OS would have been a great way to end Ash's journey, because he developed as a really great Pokemon trainer in both Kanto and Johto, both regions help his character grow strong. AG wasn't a great series but the Battle Frontier would have been a good way to bring an end to Ash's journey and making Ash a Frontier brain would have been a great way to end the series.

When the writers smarten up and make Ash actually progress in his Pokemon Master quest and defeat a regional champion. He's gotten far up in most regional leagues and gotten many loyal and strong pokemon plus the battle experience but it's just a repetitive cycle at this point, every new region he's just another starting trainer with some battle experience and an experienced Pikachu.

Show ending after OS would have cause the fans to sell their DVDs and games of pokemon because the decision would that awful.

OS was good at best but was not the best. The show got a lot better when AG and DP came around.

DP would have been the perfect way to end the show or at least mark the end of Ash as main character. AG and DP series will always be known as the best show series of all time.

Alexander18 said:

Show ending after OS would have cause the fans to sell their DVDs and games of pokemon because the decision would that awful.

OS was good at best but was not the best. The show got a lot better when AG and DP came around.

DP would have been the perfect way to end the show or at least mark the end of Ash as main character. AG and DP series will always be known as the best show series of all time.

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Yeah.
The Pokemon Company would've gone into bankruptcy right away if anime ended in OS even when they went through so much trouble over 7 years to release Pokemon Red and Green. People doesn't know anime also helps games sell. Also, when OS: Johto began being emited they were already making the 3rd generation of Pokemon so it obvious it wouldn't have been proper for the franchise to end in the OS saga.

I agree.
Either AG or DP would've been great sagas to end Pokemon.

If I remember right originally, The OG series would've ended with Pokemon the Movie... but it was scrapped due to an executive decision to continue the series. There's footage floating around the net with an older Misty recounting the tales of Ash the Pokemon master to a child (Who is implied to be her and Ash's daughter).

Kuzehiko said:

The Pokemon Company would've gone into bankruptcy right away if anime ended in OS even when they went through so much trouble over 7 years to release Pokemon Red and Green.

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Doubt that the Pokemon Inc. would've gone into bankruptcy since they're where established by GF and Nintendo. The Pokemon company is responsible for marketing and licensing of the Pokemon IP. That would encompass everything pokemon, such as the very lucrative merchandise sales, the TCG, the manga, DVD's and blue-rays, the Anime, and of course the games themselves. With merch and the actual game sales providing steady income for the company.

It's harder to turn a profit with animated shows... they're really more of glorified comercials for their source material and for the merch really. <= this applies to every other Anime as well.

Alexander18 said:

Show ending after OS would have cause the fans to sell their DVDs and games of pokemon because the decision would that awful.

OS was good at best but was not the best. The show got a lot better when AG and DP came around.

DP would have been the perfect way to end the show or at least mark the end of Ash as main character. AG and DP series will always be known as the best show series of all time.

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AG and DP are not the best series of all time, DP would have been a terrible way for the show to come to an end.

The show was much better only with the OS, AG and DP is were the show started to get old and stale very fast. The OS would have been a really great way to end Ash as a main character.

Kuzehiko said:

Yeah.
The Pokemon Company would've gone into bankruptcy right away if anime ended in OS even when they went through so much trouble over 7 years to release Pokemon Red and Green. People doesn't know anime also helps games sell. Also, when OS: Johto began being emited they were already making the 3rd generation of Pokemon so it obvious it wouldn't have been proper for the franchise to end in the OS saga.

I agree.
Either AG or DP would've been great sagas to end Pokemon.

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Technically, those Mario cartoons by DiC and the SATAM shows were also advertisements for their respective series, yet did the actual games get negatively impacted by their cancellation? Heck, no! In Mario's case, we've even got a new game right now known as Super Mario Odyssey, and Sonic just came out with Sonic Forces. Even Mega Man is now coming out with Mega Man 11. If those franchises can survive the cancellation of their commercial shows, Pokémon most certainly can. Heck, forget those examples, BLEACH is making a new movie DESPITE the cancellation of its anime.

I'm pretty sure the OS would have been a better place to end Pokémon, to be honest. AG might work if they kept the Battle Frontier and avoided bringing Gary back just so Ash's win would be treated as a joke, but not if they had Ash lose the Hoenn league at the same place as in Johto (besides, after how much of a complete JOKE the Gym Leaders were depicted in Hoenn, it's stupid to use AG as a reason to think Ash developed.). DP, likewise would work ONLY if Ash was actually ALLOWED to win instead of JUST barely edging out from before and then have his victory stolen from him.

The original run of the Pokemon Anime should have ended, with Ash retiring as the MC. I've always said that the anime should've taken a path similar to the manga, where in they have a revolving cast of characters each saga. So I feel the series should've ended after Ash won the Orange league. Then we'd get another set of characters for Advance generation.

weedle_mchairybug said:

Technically, those Mario cartoons by DiC and the SATAM shows were also advertisements for their respective series, yet did the actual games get negatively impacted by their cancellation? Heck, no! In Mario's case, we've even got a new game right now known as Super Mario Odyssey, and Sonic just came out with Sonic Forces. Even Mega Man is now coming out with Mega Man 11. If those franchises can survive the cancellation of their commercial shows, Pokémon most certainly can. Heck, forget those examples, BLEACH is making a new movie DESPITE the cancellation of its anime.

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Yep it's like weedle said, as long as the source material is making profit the IP holders won't be sweating any time soon. If you look at it, hobbies that are usually aimed at kids get the commercial shows. TCG's like Yu-gi-oh and Vanguard, Model building - Gundam, Tops - Beyblade, and games like Pokemon, Digimon and Inazuma Eleven... all have healthy incomes with their sales and merchandise that they can afford to take a loss on an Animated series almost every single year, for some added publicity, marketing and retention.

I feel that most mainstream anime in the west are getting live action adaptations in the west... Full Metal Alchemist, Your name, and now Bleach... I bet, all but Your name are going to actually be good XD

I'll investigate a bit more on the issue and then I'll let you guys know what I found out. You guys might be right.

As for the thread question, I still stand either AG or DP were proper sagas to end Pokemon because Ash's growth was to its fullest.

I think after Johto with Ash beating Gary in the final. I don't think the series should've ended there though, just ended with Ash as the main character. He could've been more of a mentor type that appears from time to time and in specials/movies.

I think they should have ended Ash's journey when his growth as a character hit its heights. But I think they should have continued on with other characters afterwards. I'm quite liking the new look and feel of the Pokémon series lately and it'd be a shame if they never made it there.

To be perfectly honest, nowhere in the series at this time. The reason I say this is because I feel Ash hasn't fully grown as a trainer. Not even in the Sinnoh region where he got fourth.

I really do believe the OS would have been a really great way to end the Pokemon anime. Ash finally beaten Gary in the Pokemon League, there was no point for the show to keep on going after that. AG and DP wouldn't have been a good way to end the series at all, they both just felt incomplete.

AG would've been a good ending point if they ended it with Ash becoming a Frontier Brain. DP would've been also since it was when Brock left for good, they just would've had to had Ash win the league or something similar to the Battle Frontier that he goes through.

OS wouldn't have been correct saga to end Ash's journey. He grew personality-wise but not in terms of being a skilled and expert trainer. He became a skilled and expert trainer during EoS AG and DP. Either these were proper sagas to end his journey. I also think Kalos would've been aright as he almost wins the Kalos league and his team was very strong. OS absolutely no.

Kuzehiko said:

OS wouldn't have been correct saga to end Ash's journey. He grew personality-wise but not in terms of being a skilled and expert trainer. He became a skilled and expert trainer during EoS AG and DP. Either these were proper sagas to end his journey. I also think Kalos would've been aright as he almost wins the Kalos league and his team was very strong. OS absolutely no.

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He certainly grew a lot more than during AG, though, and to a lesser extent DP and XY. At least we actually SEE him progress through his goal within the series (the other series have him sticking with one regional league, maybe also a Battle Frontier-like competition if we're lucky). Getting from Top 16 to Top 8 would have been considered "growth", ESPECIALLY in terms of being a skilled and expert trainer. And quite frankly, I fail to see how he really qualified as that in AG when he, I don't know, failed to even advance in rank (he got the same rank he did in Johto. That doesn't indicate growth at all).

I think the Indigo League should have been a one off thing. And then the rest of the series follows the Pokemon Adventures manga closely in story and style. Being 21, and like most people here, growing up with Pokemon, my LEAST favorite thing is the anime. It's one of those budget-y type shows at this point that doesn't really have a clear ending until the franchise it's a part of dies. And with this being Pokemon here, that won't be for (hopefully) a long time.

But at some point it makes sense why the anime is the way it is. Pikachu being the mascot, older siblings who have younger siblings or kids of their own talking about the past seasons/movies/games, and showing them/playing them with the younger generation basically created this nostalgia based monopoly that.......works?

tl;dr I wish the anime followed the Pokemon Adventures Manga, and that anything Ash related was a smaller and lesser focused series.