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Was Gary really better than Ash?

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At least in season 1, that was the message i felt the series
wanted to give us. But, think of it. Is the case as simple as
'Ash is lazy/goofy, whereas Gary is talented/cool' ?
Since the beginning of the series, Lady Luck smiles to
Gary while turning Her back to Ash...

1. Gary started with Squirtle, a starter pokemon suitable
for beginners, whereas Ash had to deal with a rebellious
Pikachu his very first day as a trainer.

2. Ash has to deal with Team Rocket at every episode.
They are obsessed with him, they don't allow him to
focus on his training, they interrupt his gym battles,
they even caused his disqualification at his first major
competition.

3. Gary had a better moral support with all those
cheerleaders, whereas Ash had to deal with Misty's
demoralizing comments.

3. Gary visited easier gyms. Ok, this is debatable,
considering we don't know exactly what kind of gyms
he visited (the only gyms he and Ash had in common
were the first two, as we see when Gary shows off his
badges), but...
-He logically had an easy task against Brock, having
Squirtle in his team. Gaining his first badge easily
gave him a moral boost. Ash, on the other hand,
had to face him with Pikachu, Butterfree and
Pidgeotto. All 3 of those are weak against Brock's
pokemon. Whichever of those 3 he chose for the
battle, he'd be at a disadvantage. Yet, Brock
commented 'bad strategy' when Ash sent out
Pidgeotto (further demoralization), as if it was
Ashes fault, as if he had the option of using a
pokemon that would not have a type disadvantage.
Alas, he suffered a humiliating defeat, which made
him feel a worthless novice, whereas Gary, at the
same point, logically felt a powerful trainer for easily
beating a gym leader. Even when he was finally
given the badge, winning the way he did (totally
by accident), he probably felt like Brock did a
charity for him.
-I'm pretty sure Gary did not have to face a
psychotic gym leader like Sabrina, whose pokemon
were impossible to beat, not just because they
were psychic type, but because their telepathetic
connection with her rendered them practically
indestructible. Also, Gary never had to fight with
his life at stake, like Ash did against Sabrina.

4. Gary did not lose most of his powerhouses for
stupid reasons. Ash, on the other hand, lost
many of his fully evolved pokemon (Butterfree,
Primeape, Pidgeot; also, Charizard was practically
unusable).
 
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This is really fun to talk about but I gotta disagree. Gary is much more advanced than Ash in the first season and it has nothing to do with luck, if anything Ash had more lucky breaks than he did. Gary was smarter than Ash and more driven- this was the reason for his success.

If you have some time on your hand see below for why. Wall of text alert!

Spoiler:
 
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113
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  • Seen May 1, 2023
He already had his 8 required badges by the time ash encountered him on Cinnabar Island...
 
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  • Age 33
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  • Seen Aug 26, 2020
I feel like Gary was more focused on actually catching and training strong Pok?mon, and actually making logical steps to become stronger and smarter. Even if he has a bad attitude personally.
Ash, however, seems kind of like he has a lot of ideals and beliefs, but doesn't really understand properly how to put them into functional practice. Like he gets too excited and is too hasty, instead of learning about how to catch a Pok?mon and learning how to raise it, he seems to basically just do whatever he feels like and hope it works.

It made me laugh though when you said:
"Gary had a better moral support with all those
cheerleaders, whereas Ash had to deal with Misty's
demoralizing comments."
That's funny to me, it's true if it was me I would think Misty was so annoying always being critical and grumpy lol.

All in all, even though Ash talks a lot about being a Pok?mon Master, I think really he is more interested in just having fun and being friends with Pok?mon, if he was honest with himself. Whereas Gary genuinely seemed to be determined to become as skilled as possible.
 
123
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  • Age 29
  • Seen Jan 24, 2019
No, he wasn't. Gary barely appeared in the original series, and whenever he did, Ash was always shown to be the better trainer of the two.
 
2,688
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  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
No, he wasn't. Gary barely appeared in the original series, and whenever he did, Ash was always shown to be the better trainer of the two.

I don't know about that. Maybe in Johto, you could make the argument that Ash might have been the better of the two, especially with the Seaking fishing competition and the Silver Conference where Ash actually beat him straight both times.

However, in Kanto, Gary managed to get about 10 badges prior to Viridian Gym, and presumably also beat Brock as well, not to mention caught more Pok?mon than Ash did, and from the little we could gather, we would assume he beat the Gym Leaders in a straight battle, while with Ash, only half of the gym badges he got were from actually beating the Gym Leaders, the other half dealt with means other than battle, and even in Kanto, where he actually DOES make an effort to catch more than the amount needed for his team, he still doesn't really get much more Pok?mon than most other trainers, and heck, he even released some from his custody (Butterfree, Haunter [since both Ash and Sabrina explicitly said that Ash "caught" it in the Japanese version, it does in fact count as one of Ash's Pok?mon, even if we don't see it inside of a Poke Ball], and Primeape can attest to the whole releasing bit, and that was all prior to the Indigo League.). Heck, during Kanto, it was constantly stressed that Gary was one step ahead of Ash (in fact, the closest it ever got to Ash truly surpassing Gary was when he advanced to the Top 16 while Gary was eliminated fairly early. Well, that and him logging more Pok?mon into the Pokedex than Gary did.).

Just stating it as it is.
 
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113
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  • Seen May 1, 2023
Gary already had 5 badges and passed through Celadon City by Primeape Goes Bananas, as well as the other 2 trainers.
 

LadyJirachu

Fluffy and Elegant :3
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Even when I used to crush on Ash...... I think it was hard to deney that Gary did better than him xD;

I mean seriously he trained over 200 species of pokemon before johto even came out o_o;;;;

Gary is a little too good at being a trainer. I don't blame him for just throwing in the towel and becoming a researcher like Oak after awhile lol

(also, personally, i think he had a better thing going with those cheerleaders than Ash had with being picked on by misty. they didn't give him so much back lash. drama for the lose!)
 
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  • Seen Aug 29, 2020
Even when I used to crush on Ash...... I think it was hard to deney that Gary did better than him xD;

I mean seriously he trained over 200 species of pokemon before johto even came out o_o;;;;

Gary is a little too good at being a trainer. I don't blame him for just throwing in the towel and becoming a researcher like Oak after awhile lol

(also, personally, i think he had a better thing going with those cheerleaders than Ash had with being picked on by misty. they didn't give him so much back lash. drama for the lose!)

Well, to be fair, it was implied that Gary caught multiple sets of some Pok?mon, since Ash saw more individual species of Pok?mon than him (probably the only time besides Ash advancing to Top 16 in Indigo where Ash actually DID better than Gary during Kanto. I'm not counting Viridian since even with Ash beating Team Rocket and getting the Earth Badge, Gary still got two more badges than him.).

That being said, I must admit, I kinda preferred Misty setting Ash back down, since, after seeing how Gaston acted in Beauty and the Beast, especially when showered with praise, it's probably a very bad idea to have Ash constantly showered in praise in case he gains a big head like Gaston did.
 
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Well, I am surprised Ash managed to make it this far at the Indigo Plateau, considering how often Misty and Brock had to constantly remind him of what to do...
 

LadyJirachu

Fluffy and Elegant :3
2,498
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Well, to be fair, it was implied that Gary caught multiple sets of some Pok?mon, since Ash saw more individual species of Pok?mon than him (probably the only time besides Ash advancing to Top 16 in Indigo where Ash actually DID better than Gary during Kanto. I'm not counting Viridian since even with Ash beating Team Rocket and getting the Earth Badge, Gary still got two more badges than him.).

That being said, I must admit, I kinda preferred Misty setting Ash back down, since, after seeing how Gaston acted in Beauty and the Beast, especially when showered with praise, it's probably a very bad idea to have Ash constantly showered in praise in case he gains a big head like Gaston did.

I still hate seeing people get bullied, though. But I do get your point about Ash getting a big head I guess. I guess i'll just go on a 'neutral' to this post....Also I don't like thinking badly of Gary's cheerleaders either xD; Since i'm a girly girl (and always HAVE been one) and want to think good things of other people like me more now. And they always seemed pretty feminine and upbeat to me.
 
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Gary was a more disciplined and well rounded trainer during OS Kanto but what's funny is he ranked lower than Ash in the Indigo League.
 
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I still hate seeing people get bullied, though. But I do get your point about Ash getting a big head I guess. I guess i'll just go on a 'neutral' to this post....Also I don't like thinking badly of Gary's cheerleaders either xD; Since i'm a girly girl (and always HAVE been one) and want to think good things of other people like me more now. And they always seemed pretty feminine and upbeat to me.

Fine by me (though I don't think I actually commented one way or another on Gary's cheerleaders). I'm more aloof to the triplets, characters who are VERY girly to say the very least, from Disney's Beauty and the Beast myself (I certainly find them more trustworthy than Belle right now, especially after a multitude of factors like a crappy experience in college with so-called "professors" who thought just because they had a degree, they could shove any agenda they wanted even when it had absolutely no relevancy to the actual course they were teaching, plus learning how intellectuals screwed us over since the French Revolution and advocated for our death at the very least. I actually fear Belle will become a Jacobin and backstab Beast again, then pull a Sephiroth on her home village, while I have no concern that they'll become that at all, if anything, I fear they'll end up victims of the French Revolution.), and I guess I won't mind the cheerleaders since they're loyal (and besides, they're cheerleaders, you can't really be a cheerleader if you act like a jerk despite what the stereotype shows since the point of their existence is to raise morale, at least to a certain extent, and you can't do that by acting like a complete jerk to your peers. That's a way to lower morale.). Plus, I'm a pretty big fan of Ariel, who definitely is girly as well as a genuine badass. If anything, I have complete ire towards the Fiorello Fangirls from the episode Princess vs. Princess and the Love Hina girls (in fact, how those girls acted in that episode, and more importantly how Misty NEVER acted like them even when given the opportunity is EXACTLY why I'm very loyal to Misty, loyal enough to try and get her back onto the show.), maybe also Battle Vixens as well.

And personally, I wouldn't call what Misty and Brock did to Ash "bullying." Tough love? Sure, but they at least made every attempt to help Ash out when he needed it (heck, when Ash was having trouble with Brock, Misty literally offered to help by allowing him to borrow her Pok?mon, yet Ash refused the help bluntly, twice. And let's not forget, it's because of Brock's suggestion that Pikachu exploit Lt. Surge's haste in evolving his Raichu to out-pace it literally that Ash even won against Lt. Surge.). In other words, to quote Kim Possible, they're "tough, but fair." You want bullying, actual bullying I should add? Try looking at how the Love Hina girls acted to Keitaru Urashima if he managed, by purely bad luck, to enter the wrong place at the wrong time, and that's if he even walks in on them instead of them walking in on him and beating him up ANYWAY (something that actually DID happen once), or heck, how about them actually forcing Keitaru to see their flesh and then beating him up afterward?

Gary was a more disciplined and well rounded trainer during OS Kanto but what's funny is he ranked lower than Ash in the Indigo League.

Well, at least Gary didn't get his butt handed to him by a giant teddy bear (in case you're wondering what I'm talking about, I'm referring to the infamous ground battle for Endor in Return of the Jedi, where the Emperor's legion of his best troops get manhandled by Ewoks, who were literally giant teddy bear aliens, and with stone age weaponry if I should add). But yeah, and what's worse, Ash and he never even fought each other during that time. Thank goodness Johto allowed for an actual confrontation to settle their rivalry.
 
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CodeHelmet

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Fine by me (though I don't think I actually commented one way or another on Gary's cheerleaders). I'm more aloof to the triplets, characters who are VERY girly to say the very least, from Disney's Beauty and the Beast myself (I certainly find them more trustworthy than Belle right now, especially after a multitude of factors like a crappy experience in college with so-called "professors" who thought just because they had a degree, they could shove any agenda they wanted even when it had absolutely no relevancy to the actual course they were teaching, plus learning how intellectuals screwed us over since the French Revolution and advocated for our death at the very least. I actually fear Belle will become a Jacobin and backstab Beast again, then pull a Sephiroth on her home village, while I have no concern that they'll become that at all, if anything, I fear they'll end up victims of the French Revolution.), and I guess I won't mind the cheerleaders since they're loyal (and besides, they're cheerleaders, you can't really be a cheerleader if you act like a jerk despite what the stereotype shows since the point of their existence is to raise morale, at least to a certain extent, and you can't do that by acting like a complete jerk to your peers. That's a way to lower morale.). Plus, I'm a pretty big fan of Ariel, who definitely is girly as well as a genuine badass. If anything, I have complete ire towards the Fiorello Fangirls from the episode Princess vs. Princess and the Love Hina girls (in fact, how those girls acted in that episode, and more importantly how Misty NEVER acted like them even when given the opportunity is EXACTLY why I'm very loyal to Misty, loyal enough to try and get her back onto the show.), maybe also Battle Vixens as well.

And personally, I wouldn't call what Misty and Brock did to Ash "bullying." Tough love? Sure, but they at least made every attempt to help Ash out when he needed it (heck, when Ash was having trouble with Brock, Misty literally offered to help by allowing him to borrow her Pok?mon, yet Ash refused the help bluntly, twice. And let's not forget, it's because of Brock's suggestion that Pikachu exploit Lt. Surge's haste in evolving his Raichu to out-pace it literally that Ash even won against Lt. Surge.). In other words, to quote Kim Possible, they're "tough, but fair." You want bullying, actual bullying I should add? Try looking at how the Love Hina girls acted to Keitaru Urashima if he managed, by purely bad luck, to enter the wrong place at the wrong time, and that's if he even walks in on them instead of them walking in on him and beating him up ANYWAY (something that actually DID happen once), or heck, how about them actually forcing Keitaru to see their flesh and then beating him up afterward?



Well, at least Gary didn't get his butt handed to him by a giant teddy bear (in case you're wondering what I'm talking about, I'm referring to the infamous ground battle for Endor in Return of the Jedi, where the Emperor's legion of his best troops get manhandled by Ewoks, who were literally giant teddy bear aliens, and with stone age weaponry if I should add). But yeah, and what's worse, Ash and he never even fought each other during that time. Thank goodness Johto allowed for an actual confrontation to settle their rivalry.

Giant Teddy Bear huh? Reminds me of Code Lyoko Episode 1: Teddygozilla. Considering Godzilla is a Japanese creation, it?s ironic that the Giant Teddy Bear goes after Yumi(whose Japanese). Anyways, to get back onto topic, Gary was full of arrogance and an inflated Ego. While Ash was far less competent than Gary, Brock and Misty did him a favor by keeping his Ego in check. When Ash had an inflated Ego after winning Orange Islands, Gary put him in his place.
 
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Uh no, he wasn't.
Gary only defeats Ash in friendly battles but when it came to the regional leagues Ash did alot better than Gary himself. In the Indigo league Ash made it top 16 while Gary ended up top 32. In the Johto league Ash defeated him and he advanced to the quarter-finals while. Ash was a better trainer all along.
 
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Uh no, he wasn't.
Gary only defeats Ash in friendly battles but when it came to the regional leagues Ash did alot better than Gary himself. In the Indigo league Ash made it top 16 while Gary ended up top 32. In the Johto league Ash defeated him and he advanced to the quarter-finals while. Ash was a better trainer all along.

To be fair, Indigo was more of a luck of the draw, especially when they never actually fought each other, so the only instance where Ash actually DID prove himself superior to Gary was in the Silver Conference since they, you know, actually FOUGHT each other there. And personally, I'd argue that a guy who got 10 badges, presumably from outright beating the Gym Leaders, would be a bit more skilled than a guy of whom only half of his Gym Badges were gained from actually beating the Gym Leaders (the other half had little to do with his skills in battle).
 
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Yeah, I agree that a higher placement in the Indigo League doesn't necessarily prove that Ash was a better trainer since they were pitted against entirely different opponents. Gary may have done better had he faced just Ritchie's Pikachu, Charmander and Butterfree. Ash may have done worse if he had faced the trainer with the Golem that ended Gary. This is not to take away from Ash's accomplishments since he did still receive the higher Pokemon league placement, and outperformed Gary. It doesn't show how Ash would have done in a head-to-head matchup against Gary though. I suspect that he would not have been ready at that point because prior to facing Gary at the Silver Conference Ash actually lost to Gary in a one-on-one match against his Eevee after the Orange League.

Gary and Ash tend to go back and forth with eachother taking an eye for eye. Ash had a definitive victory against Gary in Master Quest, nobody's debating that. He beat him fair and square. However, when Ash and Gary battled again after the battle frontier and Gary beat Ash that time. He and Ash both grow and improve.
 
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Yeah, I agree that a higher placement in the Indigo League doesn't necessarily prove that Ash was a better trainer since they were pitted against entirely different opponents. Gary may have done better had he faced just Ritchie's Pikachu, Charmander and Butterfree. Ash may have done worse if he had faced the trainer with the Golem that ended Gary. This is not to take away from Ash's accomplishments since he did still receive the higher Pokemon league placement, and outperformed Gary. It doesn't show how Ash would have done in a head-to-head matchup against Gary though. I suspect that he would not have been ready at that point because prior to facing Gary at the Silver Conference Ash actually lost to Gary in a one-on-one match against his Eevee after the Orange League.

Gary and Ash tend to go back and forth with eachother taking an eye for eye. Ash had a definitive victory against Gary in Master Quest, nobody's debating that. He beat him fair and square. However, when Ash and Gary battled again after the battle frontier and Gary beat Ash that time. He and Ash both grow and improve.

Yeah, I'd prefer not having to remember that battle regarding Battle Frontier. I could understand Gary beating Ash after the Orange Islands victory since he was still actually acting as a trainer and thus, you know, actually training his Pok?mon on an active basis, but Gary had retired from being a trainer by that point to basically follow his grandpa's footsteps as a Pok?mon Researcher. There's definitely no way he should have been able to go toe-to-toe against Ash after his victory against a group that was at the very least comparable strength-wise to the regional Elite 4 if not stronger than them based on what Scott said, let alone beat him and his Pikachu (and the latter took out a friggin' Regice with minimum effort). That was just a stupid and pointless battle that only served as an excuse to get Ash to Sinnoh, and the first of several instances that treated the one major accomplishment Ash EVER had in AG (I wouldn't even call his going through Hoenn an accomplishment, let alone a major one, thanks largely to him staying at the exact same rank as in Johto, never actually improving as a trainer until BF) as a complete and total joke (some of the other instances had him and Pikachu taking a nosedive in terms of competency against the Gym Leaders in Sinnoh, not to mention having Pikachu lose against an Ursaring that wasn't even one of Paul's veterans, and that was DESPITE Paul basically having his butt handed to him by Brandon, you know, the owner of that Regice that Ash beat with his Pikachu earlier. If Pikachu should have lost to ANYONE in that fight, it should have been to Torterra, at least THAT Pok?mon's close in experience level to Pikachu.).
 
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