Poke Island (SE)

Sep 26th '08 Notification: I updated Creative Worlds with a bit more information than I've probably written through the five pages, but it would sum it up as opposed to reading through all five. I'm not telling anyone "hey visit my site!!", but I'm just saying you'll benefit more by reading up on progress, specific information, and other stuff in a more organized fashion, especially since this the original text is nearly year old. It still doesn't really seem dire enough (for me) to just copy and paste the info here, either, considering turnabout.

Below, I've added a couple of screens for the more finalized version, and added a little to the assistance area. Otherwise it's the same as it's been about year ago.




Original Post:
It's been years since I've last been here. Busy with a lot of stuff, but one thing I've been working pretty hard on is this here game I'm gonna present. I also dunno if this is even the right area within Game Dev... =|

Title: Poke Island (Special Edition)

Made With: RMXP, unless someone can suggest something that outdoes this 100 fold (and give me more sprite flexability).

Intro: Poke Island was a fan game I made back in 1999, even though it wasn't very thorough (in terms of game play and the system). Nevertheless, I still liked it, a least enough to keep the series going long after the game, making the Poke Island series in and of itself a sort of trilogy (the last two were comics, though). A lot of people have been curious about the series, so recently I announced I'd bring it back, but the only way I'm getting Poke Island (the game) out there is to remake it, because the old version is awkward and antiquated and won't run on modern systems.

Story: If you know anything about me, you know I don't give anything away. All I can give you is a sort of teaser story you'd see on the back of a game box or long before a game is released:

Strange things are happening! Pokemon from all over the world are mysteriously being transported to a hidden island in the Pacific, known as Poke Island. Away from human eyes, the Pokemon have lived social lives much like the humans themselves, but with the population instantly increasing, the influence and suggestions of human life increases as well. But for what reason have the Pokemon been transported to this island? Who could be behind this, and what is the purpose?

Honestly the game has about 4 subplots, pretty much interconnected. I just can't say what that is unless you're behind the scenes or the game is finished.

Features: If you've ever touched a MOTHER game, you already know how this works. Basically, the game is based almost exclusively on EarthBound's system. After I had played through EB the first time, it was one of the best gaming experiences I've had, and I guess I was spoiled by it. Making Poke Island (original) like EarthBound was actually more like a tribute and huge inspiration.

PISE isn't any different, except with MOTHER 3's release came new graphics, cutscenes, interactive battles and many things EB didn't have, so now the standard has been upped to MOTHER 3's way of doing things (but the core system for PISE is still very much EarthBound, I won't even attempt sound battles).

If you aren't familiar with EarthBound, I'll try to list some key ideas:


Ideally, Poke Island has the same core ideas. I mean, Pikachu doesn't use a Yo-yo but still.

Actually, on the Pokemon side of things, the creatures, types and attacks are taken from the RBY games. This game was made in a time before GS existed, and the story itself hasn't changed. I can't add any more than what few new Pokemon were revealed at the time, with the exception of Pichu (as the original game had a very young Pikachu, and well Game Freak retconned that one so I guess I have to comply there).

That said, hopefully it won't bother anyone that the game is set in the era of the 1st generation. To be honest, though, that keeps thing SUPER simple, because I really really really don't think anyone wants to make a kajillion sprites for 480+ Pokemon and variations of them.

You may also remember the days when Bite was a normal attack and Poison was S/E on bugs. Well, it's here too. There's only 15 types (to add any more doesn't just mess up the era, but the story itself), and each is pretty much how you remember. The only difference is that Psychic types won't trump everything, as that barely matters in this situation, and the stats themselves will differ from the old HP, ATK, DEF, SPC, and SPD. There's some other exceptions, too, such as held items introduced in GS actually appear as useful items here, etc.

Screens:
Newer, closer to final stuff:
Here's some shots of some areas.






Old concept movie:
Dev Video

As a rule, I've learned that you never announce a project without getting something done yourself. Sometimes this is as high as 50%, but for this, there's way too much to do alone.



And with all that said and done...
Assistance:
Generally, I need whatever talent anyone has. So fields are open for anything but mapping and story, those were done in the original and won't change. Details?

- Overworld sprites for NPCs. There's a lot of them. A LOT OF THEM. 157 Pokemon total, but a whole lot of species have variations (male, female, child, businessguy, salesman, shopper, doctor, etc).

- Props. Because there's probably too many of these, too.

- Battle sprites. It's possible, I may do all these myself. But there's a lot of bloody enemies too. They go into 4 categories: Common Pokemon, Strange Pokemon, Original and MOTHER. Commons are just everyday Pokemon that resemble old official anime art. Strange are Pokemon with personality (disorders) or Bosses. Note that not all Pokemon (common or strange) are enemies. Original are original enemies that I made for the game, like Demonic Relic or China Plate (the less sense they make, the better). MOTHER means some MOTHER 1 & 2 enemies reappear, like the Filthy Attack Roach or Titany.

- Scenary. This takes a long time, too. A lot of it can be ripped from MOTHER 3, but I'm thinking even more of it is from scratch, a least it's been in my experience.

- Scripting. I'll be working in Sphere, which uses Javascript. The last thing I can do is code. Trust me, I've been trying for about 6 years. If I ever get a job in Game Dev, a programmer is NOT what I'll be. If you can make a catch-all script that's pretty much EarthBound in a nutshell, that's all I really need. But I'll also need stuff like sprite allowance (how many sprites I can have per character as opposed to 4 for all), a party of 5 in battle, etc.

- Stats for enemies. Again, there's a lot of them, and that means a lot of stats to assign, such as total HP, Offense, etc. This also includes weaknesses, resistances, and susceptabilities (such as one may be easily paralyzed or poisoned compared to another).

- Musician. A weird one. I will need to find someone who makes music somewhere, somehow, because a few songs I absolutely NEED to be original. The rest of the game can have an original (for the most part, there's a few standards I need to keep) score, but it's not dire. I'll end up using selected music from MOTHER 2/3 among others otherwise.

There's probably more aspects that I can't think of, but as you can see, this game is very much "build from the ground up", with the only presets being location and mapping, how the story goes and what elements of scenery I can mooch from MOTHER 3 (and battle BGs from 2/3 on top of that).

The key thing to remember is that the overall style of the game is MOTHER(EarthBound) + Pokemon. The overworld will mostly look like a MOTHER game, battle images and other close ups should resemble the official style of the series, however with EB wackiness mixed in depending on who it is.





Last words...
I appreciate any and all help/support I can get on this. The sooner it's done, the better for all (especially those who are waiting for Poke Tales/Legends). Also, I'm getting old, people. It won't be long before I gotta concern myself with mortgages and the IMRF (well, I'm not THAT old but the time is coming). So I really could use the extra boost so that I'm not still attempting to do this when I'm 35. >_> (that's many years off but still.) Any help is good help, so long as it's coordinated.

... plus, I'm still trying to get a fighting game out. =B

If you want any more information that I undoubtably left out, or want some insight on the original Poke Island, you can check this out if you haven't already seen it.

Thanks for your time, I'm off.

This is easily one of the better looking projects on the board at the moment (both in form of the graphics, and the presentation of the game itself)
I can't say much on the scripting aspect.

I really like the Mother 3 inspired look (I'm very much a fan of the Mother series myself) you've created.
And did I catch a little Earthbound reference there during the battle system part?

I also noticed a little layering error in the video at 00:21 when you walk past the tree and up to the Raichu.

Thanks, and yeah, that'd be one of the MOTHER enemies in the game. Actually I ended up recreating that battle image (considering most EB enemies that made it into 3 were cleaned up some, so I had to follow suit).

Also, I noticed the clipping thing too. I'm not quite sure how to approach that one just yet. I can adjust the priorities, but that's all I know to do, and that's assuredly not enough.

Really impressive looking. You seem to have done a good job with the game so far. Shame you need someone to help you code as the code is well the main thing of the game lol. Hopefully someone will help you so this project will get a release in the future. I would help but I'm an Rm2k3 man myself.... lol.
Good luck.

If you don't mind me saying, this looks like it relies really heavily off EarthBound. Not a bad thing though, looks like it could be interesting.

Amazing work. Simply amazing. I don't know what else to say.

Very good. You have captured the true essence of Mother in the form of Pokémon. The maps, sprites, tiles, dialog (well, everything) looks exxcellent. Keep up the good work.

Olly99 said:

If you don't mind me saying, this looks like it relies really heavily off EarthBound. Not a bad thing though, looks like it could be interesting.

Click to expand...

I remember when I had first conceptualized the game back for the original version around 8 years ago, it sorta did. However, as I worked on it, I ended up writing and rewriting a whole lot of stuff to make it it's own. In the end, it still had some elements that seemed direct from EB, just rerouted, though.* A lot of the game itself is it's own, though, and the overall story is quite different too (trust me, it's not "Giygas strikes from beyond the grave", and even if he did, what the heck does that have to do with this? I had to do a lot of logic checking in the day...).

Of course, if you mean systematically (and graphically), then yes. That's intentional. I was probably easily amused by everything in EB that wasn't in any other RPGs at the time, and I actually still am what with M3, except I'm not going to even try the complicated new features in the 3rd game. The only thing I may have to forgo is rolling HP (just a countdown is good enough), which is a neat health system but heck if I know how to approach that (in my head I can think of how to code a countdown, but in application my codes almost never work).

The largest problem is that the series continued afterwards, further developing characters and the island itself, and that I'm not the biggest fan of retcons (even if I'm better at creative writing now than I was years ago), so even in this remake I cannot make further changes (not huge ones) or else it causes a huge tsunami of inconsistancies down the line.

*That being said, that idea probably isn't any different than any game made from PK Hack. For this game, though, it's really much more expansive, which, outside of having no hacking skills, is why I had to use some old game making program to get in various locations and situations. Using RMXP now, well, at least the game will actually be an RPG this time.

I'm not sure if I'm a little late on the uptake here, but I would like to help.

Let me first introduce myself. Most know me as Sirus, and I hail from a small Pokemon MMO I run on BYOND. I've always been a fan of Pokemon, but my love for it has diminished greatly with each passing year, as everything onwards from Ruby/Sapphire seems to have just run the Pokemon series into the ground. For the few years it's been up, I've tried to keep my game true to the traditions of the original Pokemon games (shortly afterward I discovered the manga and was blown away by it, but that's another story).

As I'm now studying full-time for university, I've had less and less time to work on my game, and my grand visions of creating a famous Pokemon MMORPG have somewhat diminshed. You could say I lost my drive a little bit.

And then today I somehow stumbled across your site, and it brought everything back. The magic that Pokemon once held for me... your art, creativity and vision have resurrected. It was amazing. I swear I visited every single Pokemon link on that site, played every game, read every comic and stayed up way late when I should be working on this project... but I digress. The point is, what you've done to Pokemon is what I've always wished I could do; Create an immersive experience that makes you feel like you are part of the world, that makes you feel a sense of awe to watch, that draws out that creative streak we all have.

So yeah, I'm inspired. A lot. I've worked with RPG maker before... (Not XP, but I'll pick it up fast if I get the chance), and I want to actually be a part of this game. If you need programming or design help, I know I can be of assistance.

And if you want examples of my work, then I can either direct you to the game I run (I'll even show you the update-in-progress), or show you one of my old RM2k3 projects that I've saved and someday hope to return to. Either way, I offer my skills to you and hope we can work together. I think we have much we could learn from each other.

- Sirus

EDIT: Oh, and you might want to look at DM(BYOND) to code the game in. It's tons more flexible than RPG maker and if you do, you'll have someone with a lot of experience at it to back you up. But go with what you know, I just want to help!

110/100! That is great! If you want something 100 times better than RPG MAKER XP I'd chose gamemaker but I dont think that you need it.

Perpetr8r: Sounds a lot like me. Well, I thought RSE was better than GS but still, new games too much of the same, yadda yadda another coat of paint. The only difference is instead of a diminishing interest, I just started deviating for my own entertainment. Well, moreso, that is.

I've always liked doing things a bit differently than most people would approach. Go for the gusto, I say.

But anyway, sure if you have examples, I'd like to see what you have. But even then you're free to choose your own position, there's too much open areas for anything to really be filled.

Also, truth be told, I don't have real hold on RMXP yet, that is, there's not enough done where I have to use it. I'm not even going to start real creation until the system is worked out, so it's just like one giant debug room for now. So if BYOND is better (all around), I'll switch. Mainly I just need something that's easier for sprites and can make special battle BGs undulate and twist and such. Something that has 8 directional pixel movement w/ caterpillars as a standard is a plus, though I have a source code for that anyway.

jonsploder: I have Game Maker, and while that would definately give me the sprite flexability, I just don't think it would give me as much control in the long run. Also, I'm just not so sure with GM itself... I guess if I wanted to make any other game (can't say I do w/ this and MUGEN), I would turn to Stencyl, when that finally comes out.

*ahem* I had all these great things to show off but nooo, "Go get 15 posts" it says... If you want, I'll email you the examples I was going to show you since I don't really have the option of putting them up here.

Kine said:

But anyway, sure if you have examples, I'd like to see what you have. But even then you're free to choose your own position, there's too much open areas for anything to really be filled.

Click to expand...

Now that I've said I'd show ya, I'll have to go dig up "Boredom". I hope you still have RM2k3 though, else things might get interesting...
As for PRPR, I don't really want to show off the current version. I mean, it's not bad, but if you really want to see what I can do then let me show you the update sometime. I'll just have to catch you online somehow and then invite you into my little test server of doom.

Kine said:

Also, truth be told, I don't have real hold on RMXP yet, that is, there's not enough done where I have to use it. I'm not even going to start real creation until the system is worked out, so it's just like one giant debug room for now. So if BYOND is better (all around), I'll switch. Mainly I just need something that's easier for sprites and can make special battle BGs undulate and twist and such. Something that has 8 directional pixel movement w/ caterpillars as a standard is a plus, though I have a source code for that anyway.

Click to expand...

Well here's the specs of BYOND:

MISC
- Built on an internet interface (thus very big on multiplayer functionality... though you can make single-player games easily. Still, they are rare on BYOND nowadays *shrug*)
- Not sure if this is good or bad, but BYOND generally has 3 windows: the interface window, status/command bars and the text window. I've taken a pic of the PRPR update to demonstrate this view... BAH and I can't add it because I don't have 15 posts -_-


PROS
- Excellent sprite support. The icon squares are 32x32, but I know how to multitile icons and thus they can be pretty much any size you want them to be.
- 8 directional movement. You can actually set it per sprite, so some onely have 4 dirs or even 1 dir!
- Free exposure! If you make it on BYOND, especially if it has my "name" on it, it will get a fair deal of interest from BYOND players who like Pokemon.
- Very versatile. You can do tons more stuff than RPG maker lets you do, including write your own combat system, have status windows and use html!

CONS
- Interface is very different to RPG maker so it may or may not be good for you
- As for backgrounds, they are handled in a funny way. I'm not entirely sure if you can get what you want with BYOND. It's not so great with moving backgrounds in my experience. It's probably possible to ad-lib it but it's really a decision of whether you want the easy way or the way that whips the coder...

And uh, caterpillars? I assume you mean like trailing sprites that follow the main one around. BYOND doesn't have direct access to them, but again they can be coded.

I suppose the best way is to just show you what BYOND can do as opposed to telling you, but you at least have an idea before I show you around PRPR.

Well, the gist of it is I just want the game to go from looking like this (scroll for screens, no time to pull em out) to this, systematically. I would've linked gameplay videos but I'm at work and YouTube just ain't happening here (sheesh, the one other time I could actually use the site...). Starmen probably DOES have gameplay vids, though. Everything you see in that game? I'd like the same function. Maybe not every last detail but still. So whatever engine can do that short of straight coding from C++ (unless the suggestee wants to do it).

I'm not to sure what to make out of BYOND just yet. I've never used RM2003 or any RPG making software before, so I'm not particularly picky, although I will say that I went right for XP just because I already had the source for moving battle BGs from Starmen for it.

For sprite flexability, well with RMXP size has never been a problem, or palletes or anything. The biggest problem is the fact that they only allow 4sprites per character. You can add sources to change sprites, extend how many is needed, etc, but this I frankly feel is stupid. Is there a source code that allows you to let you suggest how many sprites a character can have (more or less than 4 a row)? Yes, but not compatible with the script I'm using. But RPG Maker shouldn't have to force you to do this stuff anyway. I would expect a system that calls itself RPG MAKER would make some of these things standard, it's the sole focus! Why would you bother to [blah blah blah end user blah blah efficiency poor documentation on and on] but I guess beggers can't be choosers. I shouldn't turn this into my concerns with RM's interface.

Erm, anyway the sprite problem is me getting in about the 25+/- sprites I have per character just for one scene (exaggeration? It may come to that). And while I could use a self switch (like I do for NPC speaking), you can only have so many, and any detailed scene is gonna make use of unique sprites and visuals you only see once or twice, kinda giving the characters more of a diverse/personal feel and less of a "I'm pixels just standing here" idea. The game is more like an interactive story, actually, so the character actions and the like is very important.

And that, everyone, is why I'm so adamant about engines and sprite management. If I have to do it the hard way, that's the way cookie crumbles, but I just know there HAS to be some super efficient method.

That's also why there's thousands of them, outside of many many NPCs.

Actually, that whole thing was sort of an indirect response to what you said about BYOND's sprite support, Perpetr8r. If it can do that, then cool.

Then again... I gotta have my battle BGs... that's one of those visions you've had for a creation that's lasted many years, and if you have the opportunity to finally get it in, oh you're going to take it.

If you have a test game (can be a tutorial) or a video, send that to me via email so I can test the engine out, or at least see it in action.

Weeeeeell...

If you want to do that with sprites, BYOND handles it great. The way BYOND works is thus (god I wish I could link right now):

For starters, you create an icon file. In this icon file you can create either single states (which are basically a non-moving sprite for say terrain) or animated sprites, called icon states. The animated sprites can be set to animate by themselves or to animate only when something using the icon moves. You can have 1, 4 or 8 directions on the animated sprites and you can set the number of images in the animation.

So, you can have 4 directions but no animation for example, or 8 directions and 10 frames of animation for each one!

With regards to everything else...

It's doable. It's killing me to admit it because I know that only a really skilled BYOND programmer can pull it off with lots of work, but I AM a really skilled BYOND programmer... Those pretty text windows you have linked me to? A few months ago I wrote my own script for those windows, complete with custom border support and window/text color. I could even write a system that allows you to make on-screen selections with a cursor like that... Again, lots of work. The problem mainly with this is that if I were to get hit by a train mid-development you'd kind of be stuck unless you could get a good BYOND programmer to pick it up again, and there aren't many of those around.

Even movable backgrounds should be doable, provided you make the animations yourself. BYOND doesn't provide realtime graphics manipulation to the extent of making things distort and then put themselves back together again. I could really speak for hours on what BYOND can and can't do and not be finished, so instead I'm going to open up PRPR 4.0 and fraps and record you a demo movie of some of the stuff BYOND can do. Still, I'm happy to go RMXP for you if you want, we'll just have to deal with it not being perfect I guess.

Actually I don't know if RMXP can do that with BGs. It doesn't matter right off the bat as the battle BGs are just ripped images from MOTHER 2 and 3. It's just for the last battle that I'd need a new BG, as it would follow suit of the last bosses of 2 and 3 (mainly 2's, 3's version was cut and replaced, only to be found through hacking). Actually if I can find a program outside that can do that anyway I can just save the results frame by frame (even if that means a zillion print screens), kinda like what the Battle BGs are like now anyway (that said I don't actually use a zillion BG images. THAT would slow the game down).

Oh yeah, it can use MP3s or such, right? I just don't think MIDIs are going to cut it for this game.

I had a look, and the definitive answer is no. Here's what the "manual" tells me:
"The MP3 format is not presently supported by BYOND due to licensing issues. Ogg-Vorbis, however, is a good alternative. For music the module formats are also a good choice, and tend to be smaller. "

I didn't know RMXP could play mp3 files, RM2k3 could only play midis and wavs as far as I recall. Also, I dug up my games collection and was pleasantly surprised. Not only is Boredom there, but almost every other game I'd ever made on RPG maker (2k and 2k3) was there too! Even Spirit Legend which I thought I'd lost!

Anyway, I now have lots of games I could show you, though anything other than Boredom has some RTP issues which make it unplayable until I find the rest of the files needed...

That's gonna be a lot of music converting... I looked up OGG already and found that while you could go from MP3 to OGG, that's not the best idea. I'll find a way. I'll do more work before MIDIs.

Well, just let me know what you want me to do, and I'll get right on it. Having dug up my old RM2k3 games earlier today, I feel even more inspired than before! :laugh:

This game looks really interesting.Will you be able to choose from which pokemon you would like to play as?And are those tiles yours that you made?

Nope. The game is more of a interactive story (and keep in mind this story continues after the game's ending), and therefore the characters are preset. I'm wondering about nicknaming, though.

The tiles are sorta half and half, for now. A LOT of structures in Green Town, for example, I had to make myself because they simply don't exist otherwise (this is fine, I like making stuff myself). Poke Forest, though? It's pretty much whatever I can get from Teri/Sunshine Forest in M3. And Mt. Skyway's featured panoramic (they change depending on elevation) I made myself, along with some of the mountain structures (like the cliff-bridge).

Considering there's some areas I don't think a MOTHER game has ever touched, there's still a lot of unique areas to go, plus, each town has unique buildings to it (and places to go). That's a lot more work but it adds to the overall "personality" of each area.

Oh, and now that it's finally the weekend, Perpetr8r, those files you sent, are they part of the game or something? I couldn't ever get to it during the week so I don't know what I was really supposed to do.