Elf Stall Version : Idk i lost track man lol

Ive had ALOT of success with stall in uu, getting high on the ladder with it #5 but thats irrelevant. Regardless about a month back i made this team and it did quite well for a stall team, it got me to #9 on the ou ladder with an alt i made which surprized me with its success.

So yes its a stall team yet again, im sorry lol. Anyways this team came about due to Sya telling me about EW using a Roar STalker Gyarados on his stall team and i wanted to make my own stall team around it.

Next, the other reason is because it seems that as of late people cant build offensive teams for crap and have no way to beat heavy stall and they are EXTREMELY at risk from teams like this. So i wanted to take advantage of this lapse. Arent i a lovely person ?




Regardless here is the team : -



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Nidoqueen (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP/244 Def/14 SAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)

Toxic Spikes

Fire Blast

Earthquake

Stealth Rock

Comments
Why is this awesome and so underated ? I can easily answer that for you. Firstly Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock and the ablility to use special attacks distinguish this from other bulky grounds. In addition those awesome resistances namely fighting and rock and that fantastic ability to remove T-Spikes upon entry. Earthquake is for stab and smacks around stuff like idk Metagross and Infernape as blind examples lol. Fire Blast poops all over Scizor, Heracross (One of the best near 100% counters to hera here folks) and Forry and skarm looking to spike up with me. Its also a decent lead, well the best thing that can lead for this team anyways. Honestly this has been an mvp for me because its really reliable is owning all non ice punch Lucario and also coming in on CB Tars Stone Edges is neat too amongst other ou threats, in the future if you are looking for a reliable T-Spiker on a stall team or where ever who doesnt suck like Tenta i highly recommend this chick (lol). If you are unsure how HARD this can take hits then a DD LO Aqua Tail from ADAMANT Tyranitar only has a slight chance to OHKO whilst Jolly can never OHKO even with SR up iirc, of course i wouldnt expect it to take such hits as i would go to Forry, but still its impressive if you think about it.
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Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP/204 Def/36 SAtk/16 spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)

Ice Beam

Recover

Discharge

Toxic

Comments
Gyarados and Salamence check here and thanks to Green Tea for reminding me this even existed lol. Anyways I despise the both aformentioed pokes with a passion and always end up smashing me hard and always seem to beat their counters on most my other stall teams. =/ Regardless, this is here to deal with both. Ice Beam is for dragons and Discharge is fun paralysis on incoming steels who dont really care about T-Spikes so it doesnt conflict that much. Toxic is to hit things bulky and wear them down and also frees up a slot on Bliss. "T-Spikes AND Toxic i hear you say?" yes, the reason for this is quite easy to explain and can be put into few words : Flying types. They are immune to t-spikes so its hits bulky things like Zappy and what not. Recover is a cool move no matter what its on really, that instant recovery is awesome and many pokemon wish they had it. Speed evs beat standard Su(b)perior.
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Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def/80 SAtk/176 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)

Wish

Protect / Softboiled

Flamethrower

Seismic Toss / Toxic

Comments
I keep asking myself, why does Blissey need Calm anymore ? Specs Gar is lol and no one uses Specs Luke not like my team fears it anyway, but w/e. Anyways this passes Wish to keep my team healthy. Protect activates Wish for itself and scouts especially for Pursuit. Although i could use Softboiled and to avoid being DD bait lol. Flamethrower is a cool move and smacks around steel types on the switch in, such as Lucario, Scizor, Metagross in addittion to other common switch ins things like Breloom and Heracross even Weavile (<lol) and Mamo this also allows me to hit Gengar. The last slot Seismic Toss is the most important move on any Blissey set, without this i would lose to a whole number of special threats. Things such as Sub and Salac Porygon-z, Sub Tran, Raikou, Sub and Petaya Empoleon, Jolteon would also be able to switch in and pass subs since Blisseys sp.att cant break it. Seismic Toss also rack up damage nicely with all the Spikes im abusing. Im cosidering Toxic >> S-Toss though if Togebrokenkiss becomes too much of an issue.
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Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP/84 Def/176 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)

Roar

Waterfall

Rest

Sleep Talk

Comments
Wow is the only word to describe this. Sya told me that EW uses this on his stall team and although i have used it before, as soon as Sya mentioned it i wanted to try it again. Basically as well as being a generic bulky water and status absorber, it also counters things from both sides of the spectrum. Things like Infernape, Non SE Lucario and even Scizor. Watefall gets STAB so isnt gonna get replaced obviously lol. Roar is for PHazing and with rest talk it really is one of the sturdiest PHazers in the game. The SR weak is annoying but Rest and Sleep Talk along with Wish more than make up for it. The evs are pretty simple, 248 hp evs to grant odd hp to thus round down SR damage and the S.DEF evs are to help with mostly mixape and with the def evs + intimidate are for physical hits. So this really can take hits from both sides of the spectrum. I really hate when people use it wrong and use that pathetic garbage aka CroGyarados. If you're using it defensive, use it defensive. Anyways, I could give it a little more S.Def, but meh i like this spread.
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Mismagius (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/6 Spd/252 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)

Perish Song

Pain Split

Substitute

Shadow Ball

Comments
I looked at this guy and though "Ah awesome, Perish Song AND blocks rapid spin..hot". Then i thought, gah i cant use Will-O-Wisp since it conflicts with T-Spikes so how can i avoid Pursuit ? I could use Hidden power Fighting to combat Tyranitar and Weavile switch ins but i would still be at risk from Scizor. This is where i got creative, im using sub so i can scout their counter and switch out whilst the sub takes the Pursuit for me so i keep my Mismag happy and healthy to block rapid spin another day. Substitute also serves another great purpose for example, you know those sub roost sets ? This set attempts to emulate that and stall with Toxic Spikes down, since i can just sub and pain split slower foes to destroy them lol, Sub also blocks Toxic which can sometimes be on spinners too. Pain Split is a rather poor method of healing but it does its job. Shadow Ball is for STAB so its definately included on this set. Perish Song is a move constantly left off of stall teams and its really an underated move. Firstly it lets me not lose to Baton Pass Ingrain teams, last poke rest Snorlax and rest Calm cune and any other poke that isnt affected by T-Spikes or has some way to bypass it. Again because this is not a commonly seen set ill give example of how well this takes hits, Standard Rapid Spinner Starmie does 22.53% - 26.54% with Surf, Gengar cant even OHKO with LO Shadow Ball either. Forreys Gyro ball is a 3hko and even though i can hit it well it can be worn down due to no recovery, that and i cant just go to something to Flamethrower it since it wont dare spin on me, Donphan has no hope and Tentacruel cant do squat. If it lays T-Spikes so be it, its wasted its time because of Nido absorbing them upon entry. So yeah this lols at pretty much every Rapid Spinner.
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Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)

Spikes

Rapid Spin
Payback

Earthquake

Comments
First and foremost this is my Rapid Spinner. Spikes is also my last form of residual damage and really helps on a stall as every last bit of residual damage helps. This + Nido are my Tyranitar defense. Earthquake lets me not be set up fodder for Metagross and other steels like Lucario etc. Really generic set, but it does its job i guess. In addition this also likes to come in on CB Outrages etc. Payback is so i can hit ghosts in that second to last slot. Im using lefovers>>Shed shell because forry needs them and i dont care about magnezone because with these evs i can just set up spikes on it. The evs and nature let forry's sp.def capabilities increase by ~40% whilst only losing 19% physical durability. This also lets it come in on things like Latias too.
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Defensive Threats

Blissey - Spiking fodder for Nidoqueen. Gyarados also likes to come in and shuffle stuff around too. Forry can also set up on it without Flamethrower.

Bronzong - More Nido AND Forrey Spiking fodder. Gyarados also wears it down and if it lacks Exposion Blissey beats is. Protect also scouts for the boom

Celebi - This thing literally is set up fodder for to my whole team one on one, bar like forry if it has HP Fire..lol

Cresselia - Oh cool, THE set up fodder. Forry can set up on it, Mismag can sub on it and nail it with S-Ball. If it starts Calm Minding it still loses to P-Song. P2 can Toxic too.

Donphan - Haha, Forry spins away its SR and Mismag stops it from spinning. P2 also nails it with Ice Beam, Gyarados also nails it.

Dusknoir - Toxic +Mismag >> Sucknoir. Also set up fodder for my spikers too.

Forretress - Nido and Bliss OHKO with Fire Blast. It also cant spin vs this team, aka go to Mismag for the Rapid Spin, and then because it wont spin i go to Nido or Bliss for the Gyro and it has to switch or get OHKO'd. Also because most forry users are not very good and dont use spin blockers in conjunction with it my own forry can spin away its junk.

Gliscor - Porygon 2 and Gyarados if it lacks Stone Edge.

Gyarados - P2 is the best counter in the game here for it. Stealth Rock also keeps it at bay.

Hippowdon - Toxic, Toxic Spikes, P2, Forry fodder anything else ? lol

Jirachi - Sub Minder cant beat Mismag. Physical is set up fodder for Forry for the most part. Gyarados is also nifty vs physical sets.

Rotom-A - Toxic would prolly be my best bet, Bliss + P2 beats it too.

Skarmory - Forry (spin away its junk), Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Discharge. Not a problem.

Snorlax - Gyarados Roars (and intimidates) its curses and forces it to take spikes/sr/t-spikes damage. Forry beats/sets up on CB Lax if i dont switch it into something stupid like Fire Punch. Mismag also takes selfdestructs and b-slams in a pinch and walls defensive versions without Crunch. P2 can also Toxic those without Rest. If this is the last poke and threatens to curse up and rest, perish song destroys it.

Suicune - Bliss would be my first initial switch in. Offensive cune loses to Bliss, sub cune loses to Mismags p-song and Roar Gyarados. Defensive isnt a problem because i can force it ro rest with bliss wearing it down and then roar it with Gyara, that and i have p-song to lol too.

Swampert - Toxic/Spikes >> Swampert.

Tentacruel - Is not a threat regardless and it just wastes its time vs this team. Nido absorbs T-Spikes, Mismag stops it spinning....yeah. Bliss, P2 and Mismag all beat it 1 vs 1 too.

Vaporeon - Porygon2 can Toxic it and then Blissey lols at it.

Zapdos - Blissey, Porygon2 @ Toxic. If it lacks a lo and hp ice then Nido can set up on it.


Offensive Threats

Azelf - Cant beat Blissey or Mismagius.

Breloom - Gyarados is probably the best counter for this. Absorbs sleep, Intimidates and Roars away sub seed sets. Nidoqueen is great against this too.

Dragonite - People still use this ? Ok, i can lure outrages and go to Forry. Porygon 2 i believe can survive and OHKO too.

Dugtrio - This why im considering Bold Blissey. But with T-Spikes up i can stall it, P2 can revenge kill it before it does significant damage (Trace Ftw haha).

Electivire - Cant get past Nido despite HP Ice and Ice Punch. Epic fail lol, also loses to Forry with the fully physical set.

Empoleon - Loses to Blissey and Gyarados can Roar it away too.

Flygon * - Potential problem here because its basically immune to entry hazards and has a strage set of resitances which make it a natural "Anti Stall" pokemon, especially the CBer. Gyarados walls all its moves bar Outrage whom Forry takes nicely. Porygon2 can also take a hit if worst comes to worst. Really this is the best you can do when using stall against it, this thing even causes problem for offense too, so yeah.

Gallade - Gyarados would be my initial switch into this. Nido CAN take a hit when Push comes to shove from CC etc. Mismag can come in on CC too.

Gengar - Sup im blissey lol. Protect also scoutd for Explosion. Also this cant OHKO Mismag even with a LO.

Gyarados - P2.

Heatran - P2 >> Scarf Tran. Gyarados >> Heatran. Blissey >> Heatran.

Heracross - Nido is one of the the best counters in the game here. That and it struggles with Gyarados too.

Infernape - Gyarados beats Mixape, so does Nido one vs one (Non Np), Mismag is also never OHKO'd. Physical ape is beaten as thus ; Go to Gyarados as it SD's, go to Nido for the Stone Edge and Intimidate and then it can live a SD LO Flare Blitz. Gyarados also walls all those who use Mach Punch >> Stone Edge.

Jolteon - Blissey and P2.

Kingdra - Hi im Forry and i loved coming in on your lured Outrages aimed at Gyarados. Forry also breaks its subs with EQ. Special sets cant get past Bliss and Mix have issues with Gyarados.

Latias - Blissey walls it badly. Mismagius can PHaze/beats the sub minder and Gyarados can PHaze it too. Payback forry beats refresh/sub versions.

Lucario - Nido is a near 100% counter for Lucario that lacks Ice Punch. If it uses Ice Punch ? Hi im Gyarados.

Machamp - Annoying, but Gyarados and Nido combined. Mismag can take CC's too.

Magnezone- Nido actually does really well vs this. Blissey does too obv. =p

Mamoswine - Annoying, but Forry can take a hit from it. So can Gyarados at a push.

Metagross - Forry would be my initial switch in, Gyarados walls all those without T-Punch. Nido can take a hit if needed.

Porygon-Z - Blissey. :x

Rhyperior * - As long as it doesnt have a sub up its not an issue and thanks to me not using Sandstorm this is even more apparent. This is also even less of a threat thanks to T-Spikes. Rock Polish is annoying yeah ill admit, but it CAN be intimidate stalled with Gyara coming in on EQ + Fire Punch/Megahorn and then beaten with P2. CBer is outpredicted, Rhyperior has no counters anyways so thats moot. SD LO and Su(b)perior arent problems if they dont have a sub, Gyarados outspeeds even Jolly Rhyperior and nails it with Waterfall so i have that too. Perish Song can force it to go away too, if worst comes to worst and make it take more spikes damage. =_= lol

Salamence - Has no counters, but i have the best available. Porygon2 stops physical sets cold. Mixed are beaten with prediction and smart switching, aka Bliss takes Draco's and then Forry takes Outrages or p2. Special and owned by bliss.

Scizor - Gyarados, Nido >> Scizor. Bliss can also OHKO predicted switch ins with Flamethrower.

Starmie - Blissey, P2.

Togekiss **- If i can Toxic this then i win. But its a pain at the best of times. Thank god Stealth Rock keeps it in check. This is one of the reasons for Calm Bliss too. Gyarados can Roar if i dont get Flinched to make it take more SR damage. =/ I can also PSong it and make it go away if everything goes wrong. Togekiss is the biggest issue thoug by far. I might put Toxic on Bliss if it becomes too much.

Tyranitar * - This is arguably the biggest issue for my team, even then not so much. CB Tar is beaten with prediction. Forry takes Crunches, Nido takes Stone Edges, Protect stops Pursuit and Porygon2 isnt really phazed by Pursuit so if i can Toxic it on the switch i can scout to see what it does via Recovering, Gyarados take Aqua Tails and CAN revenge slower versions too. Toxic Spikes also help alot in that regard too. Boah cant beat anything since it loses to Gyarados and Nido and even forry if it lacks flamethrower. DD Tar is more problematic however, Forry would be my initial switch in and Nido would be back up since it can survive a DD LO Aqua Tail. I WILL intimidate it with Gyarados too beforehand to make sure forry lives.

Weavile - Rofl. Gyarados and Forry >> this hunk o junk.

Yanmega- Nice Stealth Rock weak 1/10. That and it cant get past Blissey, Gyarados, P2, Nido, Mismag or even Forry haha !

Zapdos - Blissey, Porygon2 @ Toxic. If it lacks a lo and hp ice then Nido can set up on it.

Stall Check List.

Have something to change the weather ? No, its not really required tbh.
Have ALL the entry Hazards ? Yes. Forry and Nido
Have a PHazer/Hazer ? Yes, Gyarados and Mismagius.
Have a Rapid Spinner ? Forretress.
Have a Rapid Spin blocker ? Mismagius.
Have something to stop last poke sweeps (e.g Encore/Taunt + Toxic/Perish Song)? Mismagius
Have a status absorber or some way to deal with status ? Gyarados. Bliss also has Natural Cure.
Have something to absorb T-Spikes ? Nidoqueen.
Have Wish support ? Blissey

* = I can outplay but its still a threat.
** = I lose every time to a well played one. =/

How I made the team ?

Gyarados was the only pokemon I wanted to use and make my team around it so was the first pokemon included.

Gyarados
???
???
???
???
???

Toxic Spikes : -

Forry, Tenta, Drapion, Nidoking , Nidoqueen, Omastar, Roserade, Ariados, Beedrill, Cloyster , Venomoth , Qwilfish .

• I immediately threw out the two awful bugs (Ariados and Beedrill) since they cant do anything.

• Venomoth was given the boot next because its SR weak and again cant set up on anything.

• Nidoking was next to go because its an inferior spiker on a defensive team than its bulkier counterpart, Nidoqueen.

• Qwilfish is a good spiker in uu but its really inferior to Tenta otherwise bar spikes, but other things can Spike better.

• Cloyster is again decent in UU, but really its too metagame weak in OU and SR weak.

• Roserade, once again is great in UU, but there isnt much in OU it can set up on.

• Omastar cant really wall apart from like choice Heatran locked into f-blast or hp ice (with ss up) so he went, even though ive had a lot of success in uu with him and that he does get spikes, t-spikes, knock off.

• Of these i really liked Drapion, Tenta, Forry and Nidoqueen. Drapion because it is a good special defender and with sp.def investments can spike on and wall Azelf, Gengar, boah etc, gets Knock off, taunt and can phaze. Tenta becuse it beats mixape although i dont need mixape protection with Gyarados it can also spin. Forry because its a good outrage resist and can spin and set up other spikes and lastly Nidoqueen because of its fighting and rock resists, phazing ability, Taunt, and the ability to set up SR too.

I would have to develop my team further untill i could decide on that.

Gyarados
Drapion/Tenta/Forry/Nidoqueen.
???
???
???
???


Wish : -

Every Wisher was pretty much sucky or inferior to the below pokemon.

Jirachi, Jolteon, Togekiss, Blissey, Latias, Vaporeon.

Gyarados
Drapion/Tenta/Forry/Nidoqueen.
Jirachi / Jolteon / Togekiss / Blissey / Latias / Vaporeon
???
???
???

Spinner : -

Donphan, Forrey, Starmie, Hitmontop, Tenta are the best spinners in the standard metagame so i liked these.

Gyarados
Drapion/Tenta/Forry/Nidoqueen.
Jirachi / Jolteon / Togekiss / Blissey / Latias / Vaporeon
Donphan / Forrey / Starmie / Hitmontop / Tenta
???
???

Perish Song : -

Celebi, Gengar, Azumarril, Mismagius, Lapras

• Gengar was discounted because its too frail
• Lapras has awful typing, so no.

Gyarados
Drapion/Tenta/Forry/Nidoqueen.
Jirachi / Jolteon / Togekiss / Blissey / Latias / Vaporeon
Donphan / Forrey / Starmie / Hitmontop / Tenta
Celebi / Azu / Mismagius
???

Something to absorb T-spikes : -

Drapion, Tenta, Nidoqueen are the ones i liked mainy here because they were the most useful imo and could be fitted in somewhere and because all of then can t-spike too.

Spin Blocker/ghost : -

Rotom-A, Spiritomb, Dusknoir, Mismagius.

• Dusknoir is Pursuit bait with T-Spikes on that same team since i cant burn anything then so went away.

• I decided i would use Mismagius as it gets p-song AND Blocks spin thus saving slots. I had decided i wanted sub on it too.
  

Gyarados
Drapion/Tenta/Forry/Nidoqueen.
Jirachi, Jolteon, Togekiss, Blissey, Latias, Vaporeon
Donphan, Forrey, Starmie, Hitmontop, Tenta
Mismagius
???

I had 2 slots pretty much set in stone.


Spikes : -

Forry and Skarm are the best Spikers. All the others are inferior and tossed out immediately due to this fact as explained in the Toxic Spikes overview too.

In the end i went with forry because it can spin too.

Gyarados
Drapion/Tenta / Nidoqueen.
Jirachi, Jolteon, Togekiss, Blissey, Latias, Vaporeon
Forrey
Mismagius
???

Status absorber : - Gyarados doesnt have reliable recovery, so this was an easy decision. Its set was to be Rest/Sleep Talk/Waterfall/???

Phazer : - I saw Gyarados got Roar and had a free slot so its set was to be Rest/Sleep Talk/Waterfall/Roar.


Gyarados
Drapion/Tenta/Forry/Nidoqueen.
Blissey
Forrey
Mismagius
???

I had 3 slots set in stone at this point. I figured Blissey was the best wisher and covered more threats that Latias, most notably Gengar. So i went with her.

Gyarados
Nidoqueen.
Blissey
Forrey
Mismagius
???

Now i was looking at my team and thought. "Hmm i need t-spikes and sr but dont want to overcrowd forry". Nidoqueen gets both and beats Scizor and Lucario so was ensured a place on my team.

Gyarados
Nidoqueen.
Blissey
Forrey
Mismagius
Porygon2.

I looked over my team and though, ughh DD Mence weak AND DD Gyara weak. What beats both ? Porygon2 of course. I added him in that last slot after Green Tea remided me of it.

I now had my final team.

So yeah rate away.

MixMence you from many problems, Porygon2 cannot hold up for ever his hits. In this metagame a moves as Toxic Blissey cannot absolutely do to of it less, Calm Mind Latias devastates your team, your Blissey goes to crisis against a Calmcune with Substitute and Max HP, attention also to MixApe with Hidden Power Elettric, Curselax destroys alone the whole team in combo with Stealth Rock and your team is very weak to Trick.

Sebastien Loeb said:

MixMence you from many problems, Porygon2 cannot hold up for ever his hits.

Click to expand...

Mixmence doesnt have a counter anyway. Blissey takes the initial Draco Meteor and then P2 is fine with it.

In this metagame a moves as Toxic Blissey cannot absolutely do to of it less,

Click to expand...

I didnt understand this, sorry.

Calm Mind Latias devastates your team, your Blissey goes to crisis against a Calmcune with Substitute and Max HP.

Click to expand...

Sub CM Cune cant get past Gyarados and if it has HP Electric then Mismagius poops on it, same with Latias thanks to Perish Song.

attention also to MixApe with Hidden Power Elettric, Curselax destroys alone the whole team in combo with Stealth Rock and your team is very weak to Trick

Click to expand...

No Infernapes use HP Electric.

| Infernape | Move | Close Combat | 89.2 |
| Infernape | Move | Grass Knot | 44.8 |
| Infernape | Move | Fire Blast | 32.7 |
| Infernape | Move | Flamethrower | 29.5 |
| Infernape | Move | HP-Ice | 26.2 |
| Infernape | Move | U-turn | 17.6 |
| Infernape | Move | Stealth Rock | 17.3 |
| Infernape | Move | Nasty Plot | 17.2 |
| Infernape | Move | Flare Blitz | 14.9 |
| Infernape | Move | Fake Out | 14.3 |
| Infernape | Move | Stone Edge | 14.2 |
| Infernape | Move | Overheat | 13.0 |
| Infernape | Move | Mach Punch | 11.3 |
| Infernape | Move | Other (11) | < 9.3 |

Click to expand...

Curse lax can be PHazed easily by Gyarados and force it to take residual damage and Mismagius too when i force it to rest.

Trick is a given since all defensve teams are weak to it.


Anyways its all well and good pointing out weaks, but could i have some solutions to these problems if they are that bad ? Thanks.

I really love the theorymon on this team. It contains original pokemon and looks great. Beware of charge beam sub Rotom, it can pretty much get a full sweep on you.

If you have shed shell on Forrey, I would highly suggest payback over eq, as it hits spin blockers for nice damage.

Good job son =)

Now just a quick fix. Earthpower might be better on Queen because it hurts Meta more and means you can run Bold. WHich allows you to outpace some leads

in most of your teams you used this bliss with same ev spread..Could i ask why it is better than the other most common one 252HP/252DEF/6SP.DEF

Nilojan said:

in most of your teams you used this bliss with same ev spread..Could i ask why it is better than the other most common one 252HP/252DEF/6SP.DEF

Click to expand...

Well maxing hp only increases blisseys physical durability by like 6% and with calm you dont lose much def (calm grants 119 def whilst bold grants 130). However, in contrast the sp.def evs increase Blisseys special durability by ~20% which helps greatly with special threats such as NP PZ, Specs Lucario, Specs Gar, Specs Heatran, NP Azelf and Togebrokenkiss and other overpowered scary special sweepers.

@Sya

Yah sub and charge beam rotom could be annoying. Luckily i havent seen many and the one i did see tried to set up on p2 for some reason which didnt work..lol

Thanks. ^^

@ Calum?

Well i had eq because i am kinda tar weak and it does more than earth power to it thanks to the s.boost be sandstream. =_=

Thanks for the comments guys.

A stall team that breaks the Obistall mold? I never thought I'd see the day.

Regardless, if you put Payback on Forretress, you probably want to go 252 HP/252 SDef, if only to help set up on weak special attackers such as defensive Rotom (not H), Mixpert, defensive Celebi, and mono-dragon CM Latias (which, with Refresh, is a horrible foe who can be 2HKO'd by Payback), among others.

Giving Forry max defense EV's increases his defensive potential by 19%, but by going max SDef, the special bulk increases by 54% (Impish/Relaxed nature is assumed). I thought iKitsune was mad when he suggested it to me, but it's actually decent, what with the handy Ice and Dragon resists.

So I guess your alternate Forry set would be

Forretress (M) @ Shed Shell/Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Payback
- Rest/Explosion/Earthquake
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Just a consideration. This is all I can say, your record shows that this is obviously an excellent team.

Earthquake lets me not be set up fodder for Metagross and other steels like Lucario etc.

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Metagross can't really set up at all unless you count the rather redundant Agility, so it's not worth worrying about as it can't do much to Forry thanks to its typing (bar Explosion). Therefore, your only real concern is Lucario, who can unfortunately still almost go through Forretress after SR and an SD even with max defense and Impish/Relaxed
(Close Combat vs. max HP / Def Forretress: 79.7% - 93.8%). If Nidoqueen and Gyarados can deal with this, then Earthquake is rather redundant IMO, so you can exchange it for Rest, which helps your longevity, which you expressed valid concerns about.

;) Hey there big boy.

mtr12 said:

A stall team that breaks the Obistall mold? I never thought I'd see the day.

;)

Regardless, if you put Payback on Forretress, you probably want to go 252 HP/252 SDef, if only to help set up on weak special attackers such as defensive Rotom (not H), Mixpert, defensive Celebi, and mono-dragon CM Latias (which, with Refresh, is a horrible foe who can be 2HKO'd by Payback), among others.

I might try this actually, i have been concerned about Forry not being able to switch in and spin on anything bar like physical choice dragon moves. Maybe that will help more in that regard so it will actually be able to switch in.

Giving Forry max defense EV's increases his defensive potential by 19%, but by going max SDef, the special bulk increases by 54% (Impish/Relaxed nature is assumed). I thought iKitsune was mad when he suggested it to me, but it's actually decent, what with the handy Ice and Dragon resists.

So I guess your alternate Forry set would be

Forretress (M) @ Shed Shell/Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Payback
- Rest/Explosion/Earthquake
---

Just a consideration. This is all I can say, your record shows that this is obviously an excellent team.

(b'-')b

Metagross can't really set up at all unless you count the rather redundant Agility, so it's not worth worrying about as it can't do much to Forry thanks to its typing (bar Explosion).

EQ really helps vs like CB Gross etc. Who for some reason stay in to Mash untill they get attack boosts which is really annoying as they assume im not packing EQ. X___X

Therefore, your only real concern is Lucario, who can unfortunately still almost go through Forretress after SR and an SD even with max defense and Impish/Relaxed
(Close Combat vs. max HP / Def Forretress: 79.7% - 93.8%). If Nidoqueen and Gyarados can deal with this, then Earthquake is rather redundant IMO, so you can exchange it for Rest, which helps your longevity, which you expressed valid concerns about.

I guess but i dont want Lucario to switch into forry and be able to set up, thats what it was mainly for in that regard, that and i hate giving Infernape free switch ins. =p

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Thanks alot for that, really appreciate it. Ill definately try S.Defensive forry and see if it does better than my current set.

@ Luke.

NOOB. XD

But yeah when people know my team *cough* cb loom is a problem lol. Standard Loom isnt much of a problem though.

Thanks. Oh yeah, I actually made a bit of a mistake in my post. Forry's special bulk only increases by 54% when you use Sassy/Careful. It's 40% with Relaxed/Impish. Sorry for any confusion/problems this may have caused. I guess it's really up to you which nature to use, but I've seen people use both.

Just to make sure I'm not screwing you up, I ran calcs on Libelldra with a no-investment Payback against a standard defensive Latias.

216 Atk vs 216 Def & 333 HP (100 Base Power): 146 - 172 (43.84% - 51.65%)

2HKO:5.39%0.00%100.00%100.00%62.39%

So there's a good (62.39%) chance to 2HKO, factoring in SR and leftovers.
Basically, you win the stall war after a crit. Ironic, right? Well, unless the other dude has Reflect or HP Fire, but then Blissey wins.