Is Offense an Option? (OU RMT)

Skip Shot · Aug 20, 2009

I used to be pretty active over in Smogon's Create-A-Pokemon project. During my time there, a trio of CAP's best battlers built an all-out offense team that worked wonders. (I think Mag posted a version of it here as well). What they did is they created a team using 2 support Pokemon, 2 mixed wallbreakers, and 2 panic buttons. I thought that the team was extremely good, and decided to try to create a version of it that I could use.

Apart from using the above team layout, I rely on prediction alot to win my battles with this team. If I predict well, I usually easily win matches.

A Quick Look at the Team

The Full Overview of the Team

Offensively:
12 different types that I can attack with
Defensively:
4 Toxic Spikes Immunities
2 Stealth Rock weaks(1 4x, but its my lead)
4 Spikes Immunities

The Support

Yanmega @ Focus Sash
Modest Nature (+ S. Atk, -Atk)
Ability: Speed Boost
104 Def/ 252 Spa/ 152 Spe

Air Slash
Bug Buzz
Hypnosis
Hidden Power Ground

Yanmega has an onslaught of powerful weapons it can use to make a good suicide lead. This is a variant of Dark_Azelf's Yanmega Suicide lead. Instead of Hidden Power Fire, I went with Ground to hit Heatran and Metagross leads. Hypnosis can be used to cripple slower leads that try to set up Stealth Rock or inflict their own status on Yanmega. Air Slash and Bug Buzz actually hit a lot of Pokemon hard, especially in OU.

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Impish Nature (+Def, - S. Atk)
Ability: Sand Veil/Hyper Cutter
252 HP/ 40 Def/ 216 Spe

Earthquake
U-Turn
Stealth Rock
Roost

Gliscor has plenty of speed and defensive capabilities to serve as a tank. It can also kill off threats like Tyranitar and Lucario, and allow free switch-ins for my sweepers by utilizing U-Turn. The Speed EVs allow it to outrun all Adamant/Modest forms of Lucario bar Scarf variants, which means that it can kill Lucario off with Earthquake. Stealth Rock is a crucial move for this team, as it allows my team to hit a lot of important OHKOes and 2HKOes. Roost provides Gliscor with a form of recovery, which means Gliscor can come back into battle time and time again.

The Mixed Wallbreakers

Salamence @ Life Orb
Rash Nature (+ S. Atk, - Sp. Def)
Ability: Intimidate
252 Spa/ 216 Spe/ 40 Atk

Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Outrage
Roost

This is a version of Salamence used by the Smogon trio's team that I talked about in the intro. This Mixmence, combined with Infernape, is able to blast huge holes in a lot of teams. With Draco Meteor and Outrage, Salamence devastates a lot of Pokemon, and Fire Blasts those who can take its STAB move. With Intimidate and Roost, Salamence can also play a little on the defensive side, and helps to soften up attacks that allow Metagross and Snorlax to switch in. Salamence is really the glue of this team, since it works well with every Pokemon on the team.

Infernape @ Life Orb
Naive Nature (+Spe, -Sp. Def)
Ability: Blaze
64 Spa/ 252 Atk/ 192 Spe

Close Combat
Mach Punch
Stone Edge
Overheat

Physically Mixed Infernape deals with a lot of things that Salamence has weakened greatly. Mach Punch is probably the most used on this set, since it picks off everything that has been weakened earlier on in the battle. Infernape also deals with a lot of the bulky Pokemon that Salamence can't handle, such as Blissey, Snorlax, and Tyranitar. Overheat is used to kill off Scizor and other steel-types that plague Mence if its locked in Outrage. Infernape also takes some slack off of the bulky members of the team, since it can deal with the more frail, hard hitting sweepers when my team is weakened.

The Panic Buttons

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -S.Atk)
Ability: Thick Fat
252 Atk/ 252 Sp. Def/ 4 HP

Body Slam
Crunch
Earthquake
Selfdestruct

This form of Snorlax is very bulky, and can also hit hard with Max Attack. Body Slam is very helpful to this team with its 30% paralysis chance. Speaking of paralysis, Snorlax doesn't mind being paralyzed (unless parahax kicks in) because of its already low speed, so it can absorb a T-Wave from stuff like Celebi. Crunch deals with Latias, the Rotom formes, and Gengar. Earthquake combined with Thick Fat manhandles Heatran, provide it doesn't explode (aka Snorlax switching in on a Fire Blast). Selfdestruct is panic button A for this team. With STAB, Selfdestruct reaches a ridiculous 300 base power. Snorlax can use this to OHKO Scizor with SR up, or do up to 75% to Skarm, which cripples it almost completely (since this is all-out offense, Skarm has to switch the next turn or it dies).

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Sp. Atk)
Ability: Levitate
252 Spa/ 252 Spe/ 6 HP

Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power Ice

Gengar acts as a check to a lot of Pokemon that would otherwise rampage my team. Before adding Gengar, this team had a serious Agiligross, Gengar, and Salamence weak. To deal with these, it has Shadow Ball to deal with opposing Gengar (who it at least ties with if they have HP Ice, outspeeds at HP Fire), Focus Blast to hit Tyranitar switch-ins(as well as Metagross), and the Bolt Beam combo for coverage on pretty much everything else. The one thing I dislike about Gengar is its Pursuit weak, which means that if Choice Band Tyranitar or Scizor is still alive, Gengar is screwed.

Thanks for reading, and I hope for some good rates!

Team Changes:
- Yanmega got Hidden Power Ground>> Hidden Power Fire.
-Gliscor got U-Turn>> Stone Edge.
-Salamence went from Mild to Rash.
-Snorlax EV's were changed from 252 Atk/ 156 HP/ 100 Def to 252 Atk/252 HP/ 4Sp. Def
-Bulky Bomb Metagross was changed to Choice Scarf Jirachi.
-Jirachi's EV's were changed from 252 Atk/ 176 Spe/ 80 HP to 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Choice Scarf Jirachi was changed to Choice Scarf Gengar.

(Pictures by PE2K and Arkeis)
(Thanks to Plus, Beej, and Mag from Smogon for the team idea)
(Thanks to D_A for the Yanmega moveset)

Anti · Aug 20, 2009

Really big Gengar weakness, and it can come in on a lot of your team. Since you don't take status well, it's crippling or killing at least one member of your team unless Hypnosis and Focus Blast act up. Snorlax takes a ton from Focus Blast (especially with its terrible EV spread), so you're basically forced to revenge kill with Metagross, but you'll have to watch out for Hypnosis. The Rotom formes pose a similar threat, only they can take most of your Pokemon one-on-one or can at least do heavy damage as they switch in (like with Infernape).

Speaking of Snorlax's poor EVs, those aren't accomplishing anything. 500 HP might look cool, but it isn't really helping much. SpecsJolt is 2HKOing your Snorlax if it has taken any prior damage and switches into SR, and while you have Gliscor to take the second Thunderbolt, the damage has been done. Your EVs are super inefficient, so just run the standard Adamant @ 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef. Snorlax isn't going to be taking any real physical hits. I guess it helps with Earthquakes from Swampert and stuff, but it's better to be able to wall real threats that otherwise tear your team to pieces.

For Gliscor, I would use U-Turn over Stone Edge. Since this is supposed to be an offensive team and Gliscor is a defensive Pokemon, keeping the pressure on the opponent is better than launching weak Stone Edges at Gyarados (though it does cause you problems). It's also a good idea to bring in on Celebi, who often likes to abuse Thunder Wave and Leech Seed. It will give Infernape a free switch (at least until you opponent catches on) into Celebi while doing a decent amount of damage. Also, not like it really matters, but Stone Edge + Earthquake isn't unresisted - Flygon, Breloom, Torterra, Claydol (lol), and I think a few other Pokemon resist it. and of course, 280 Speed Gliscor doesn't outspeed every non-Scarf Lucario since some are Jolly =(

D_A will probably kill me for this, but I also don't understand what Yanmega is doing with Hidden Power Fire. Scizor is a terrible switch into Yanmega since Bullet Punch does pretty bad damage, and Air Slash doesn't exactly do nothing. I would much rather have HP Ground for ScarfTran and I guess Empoleon too lol. Empoleon does set up on your entire team and sweep it if fragile Infernape dies, so it's certainly noteworthy.

The extra Speed EVs on Metagross are pointless. Smeargle is the only Pokemon even close to OU with 75 base Speed, and that's going to be running a +Speed nature all of the time. also, without max HP, there isn't any point in the 12 Def EVs since those are to survive Adamant CB Dugtrio Earthquakes, and even then it doesn't really matter given the popularity of Stealth Rock. This is more personal preference, but I would run Rash >>> Mild on Salamence to take random Bullet Punches and Extremespeeds, especially since you have Outrage. Heatran beats that set regardless, so Rash is probably superior.

That being said, it's a pretty good team. Definitely some bad weaknesses like Gengar, Infernape, Rotom-A, Gyarados, and SD Scizor if Infernape has taken two turns of LO recoil (though Scizor is less seriously than the others), but it sure has a decent amount of firepower. If I was going to replace something, it would probably be Metagross for a Choice Scarf Jirachi, which would help with some of your weaknesses. I mean, Explosion is nifty, but Metagross is very easy to wall, even with a Choice Band. Of course, it does subtract some power (mostly because of the losso f Explosion), but rendering an opposing wall useless with a Tricked choice Scarf or U-Turning to your sweepers is pretty useful too.

Oh, and it would be awesome if next time the moves could all be kept the same color. It makes your RMT look less appealing. But good job, better than most RMTs we get around here these days.

Skip Shot · Aug 20, 2009

Anti said:
Really big Gengar weakness, and it can come in on a lot of your team. Since you don't take status well, it's crippling or killing at least one member of your team unless Hypnosis and Focus Blast act up. Snorlax takes a ton from Focus Blast (especially with its terrible EV spread), so you're basically forced to revenge kill with Metagross, but you'll have to watch out for Hypnosis. The Rotom formes pose a similar threat, only they can take most of your Pokemon one-on-one or can at least do heavy damage as they switch in (like with Infernape).

Speaking of Snorlax's poor EVs, those aren't accomplishing anything. 500 HP might look cool, but it isn't really helping much. SpecsJolt is 2HKOing your Snorlax if it has taken any prior damage and switches into SR, and while you have Gliscor to take the second Thunderbolt, the damage has been done. Your EVs are super inefficient, so just run the standard Adamant @ 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef. Snorlax isn't going to be taking any real physical hits. I guess it helps with Earthquakes from Swampert and stuff, but it's better to be able to wall real threats that otherwise tear your team to pieces.

I'll change this.

For Gliscor, I would use U-Turn over Stone Edge. Since this is supposed to be an offensive team and Gliscor is a defensive Pokemon, keeping the pressure on the opponent is better than launching weak Stone Edges at Gyarados (though it does cause you problems). It's also a good idea to bring in on Celebi, who often likes to abuse Thunder Wave and Leech Seed. It will give Infernape a free switch (at least until you opponent catches on) into Celebi while doing a decent amount of damage. Also, not like it really matters, but Stone Edge + Earthquake isn't unresisted - Flygon, Breloom, Torterra, Claydol (lol), and I think a few other Pokemon resist it. and of course, 280 Speed Gliscor doesn't outspeed every non-Scarf Lucario since some are Jolly =(
k

D_A will probably kill me for this, but I also don't understand what Yanmega is doing with Hidden Power Fire. Scizor is a terrible switch into Yanmega since Bullet Punch does pretty bad damage, and Air Slash doesn't exactly do nothing. I would much rather have HP Ground for ScarfTran and I guess Empoleon too lol. Empoleon does set up on your entire team and sweep it if fragile Infernape dies, so it's certainly noteworthy.
I get the Yanmega part. However, if Empoleon tries to Substitute up, Snorlax/Meta break its subs with EQ/T-Punch every time. If I change Snorlax's EV's to your spread, it then wins against Empoleon.

The extra Speed EVs on Metagross are pointless. Smeargle is the only Pokemon even close to OU with 75 base Speed, and that's going to be running a +Speed nature all of the time. also, without max HP, there isn't any point in the 12 Def EVs since those are to survive Adamant CB Dugtrio Earthquakes, and even then it doesn't really matter given the popularity of Stealth Rock. This is more personal preference, but I would run Rash >>> Mild on Salamence to take random Bullet Punches and Extremespeeds, especially since you have Outrage. Heatran beats that set regardless, so Rash is probably superior.
k

That being said, it's a pretty good team. Definitely some bad weaknesses like Gengar, Infernape, Rotom-A, Gyarados, and SD Scizor if Infernape has taken two turns of LO recoil (though Scizor is less seriously than the others), but it sure has a decent amount of firepower. If I was going to replace something, it would probably be Metagross for a Choice Scarf Jirachi, which would help with some of your weaknesses. I mean, Explosion is nifty, but Metagross is very easy to wall, even with a Choice Band. Of course, it does subtract some power (mostly because of the losso f Explosion), but rendering an opposing wall useless with a Tricked choice Scarf or U-Turning to your sweepers is pretty useful too.
With Jirachi, I should go Fire Punch/T-Punch/Trick/U-Turn then, right?

Oh, and it would be awesome if next time the moves could all be kept the same color. It makes your RMT look less appealing. But good job, better than most RMTs we get around here these days.

I'll be making those changes asap.

Dark Azelf · Aug 20, 2009

Well HP Fire is more of lure since the team i used it on had a few Pursuit/Scizor bait pokes so i used it to lure it out early match up to get rid of that (since LO BP is a 3HKO on that spread and most people seem to think that Scizor = Yanmega counter). I guess it helps lax and mence a bit, but eh.

Gyarados is a problem, and its not as if you can stop it coming in since it CAN. After the -2 DM sp.att drop and to revenge ape. DD/EQ/SE/Waterfall or Aqa Tail eats this team alive so id highly try to resolve that in one way or another.

Skip Shot · Aug 20, 2009

Dark_Azelf said:
Well HP Fire is more of lure since the team i used it on had a few Pursuit/Scizor bait pokes so i used it to lure it out early match up to get rid of that (since LO BP is a 3HKO on that spread and most people seem to think that Scizor = Yanmega counter). I guess it helps lax and mence a bit, but eh.

Gyarados is a problem, and its not as if you can stop it coming in since it CAN. After the -2 DM sp.att drop and to revenge ape. DD/EQ/SE/Waterfall or Aqa Tail eats this team alive so id highly try to resolve that in one way or another.

I'm replacing Metagross with a Scarf Jirachi to check Gyara and Scizor, who also plagues this team. I'll post it in a bit.

Malicious Metang · Aug 25, 2009

I know since D_A posted a thread in which he used Yanmega effectively inspired you to use Yanmega as well, however, I'm not really seeing what it contributes to this team. Any standard lead would fair better, and would allow Gliscor to run Taunt, something that makes the set a "Stallbreaker". Yanmega can cripple a few things here and there, but it doesn't accomplish much for this team. Anything it usually sleeps doesn't benefit your team in the slightest. Like Anti mentioned, this team is pretty Gengar weak, your only insurance against it being Jirachi (whom is ridiculously easy to wall). Salamence pretty much 6-0's you with a set of Dragon Dance / Dragon Claw / Outrage / Earthquake, and since most Salamence are accompanied by Magnezone, it doesn't even need the more-reliable Dragon Claw. It can murder you with Outrage. There are a few ways to alleviate this problem, primarily by giving Jirachi maximum Speed instead of that "80 HP / 252 Atk / 176" spread. I don't ever know when I've found those EVs useful, and instead I've always found potentially tying with faster Salamence and Flygon more beneficial.

I'm a bit confused at how you handle Agiligross, as it seems to straight up OHKO or nearly OHKO every member of your team. It can get some free switch-ins here and there (Jirachi is the primary suspect here). I don't see what you're using Gliscor for, as Lucario does absolutely nothing to this team, and Gliscor actually gives things like Gyarados a chance to come in and weaken your team with Waterfalls coming from a Life Orb 383 Attack. I would reccomend you switch Gliscor out for a defensive Rotom-A, either ResTalk or simple support. With this, you are less Metagross weak, and don't give Gyarados any free switch-ins on your team. Rotom-A also can block Rapid Spin, keeping your rocks on the field...

...Which brings me to my next suggestion: Ditch Yanmega. By removing Yanmega and adding something such as Swampert, Metagross, or even Mamoswine, you gain a secondary Salamence check to Jirachi, as well as solid lead to deploy Stealth Rock. Any of these work, so I suggest you play-test them all to see what suits you best. Good luck, nice team.

Skip Shot · Aug 25, 2009

Bedlam Beldum said:
I know since D_A posted a thread in which he used Yanmega effectively inspired you to use Yanmega as well, however, I'm not really seeing what it contributes to this team. Any standard lead would fair better, and would allow Gliscor to run Taunt, something that makes the set a "Stallbreaker". Yanmega can cripple a few things here and there, but it doesn't accomplish much for this team.
Anything it usually sleeps doesn't benefit your team in the slightest.
Yanmega has proven to be a great asset to the team so far. I've been able to constantly wear down the opponent with its moves and it can beat a lot of the common leads today, especially Heatran and Metagross and whatnot.

Like Anti mentioned, this team is pretty Gengar weak, your only insurance against it being Jirachi (whom is ridiculously easy to wall). Salamence pretty much 6-0's you with a set of Dragon Dance / Dragon Claw / Outrage / Earthquake, and since most Salamence are accompanied by Magnezone, it doesn't even need the more-reliable Dragon Claw. It can murder you with Outrage. There are a few ways to alleviate this problem, primarily by giving Jirachi maximum Speed instead of that "80 HP / 252 Atk / 176" spread. I don't ever know when I've found those EVs useful, and instead I've always found potentially tying with faster Salamence and Flygon more beneficial.
I'll change Jirachi's EVs. As for Gengar, I use Jirachi against it. If I predict a switch, I U-Turn to something like Snorlax, who can take most of Gengar's attacks bar Focus Blast, and Gengar usually prefers to Shadow Ball Jirachi, which equals a free switch after I bring Lax in. If it's a LO variant, I can play the switching game with the rest of my team until Gar gets worn down enough from LO recoil that Jirachi can take care of it in one hit.

I'm a bit confused at how you handle Agiligross, as it seems to straight up OHKO or nearly OHKO every member of your team. It can get some free switch-ins here and there (Jirachi is the primary suspect here). I don't see what you're using Gliscor for, as Lucario does absolutely nothing to this team, and Gliscor actually gives things like Gyarados a chance to come in and weaken your team with Waterfalls coming from a Life Orb 383 Attack. I would reccomend you switch Gliscor out for a defensive Rotom-A, either ResTalk or simple support. With this, you are less Metagross weak, and don't give Gyarados any free switch-ins on your team. Rotom-A also can block Rapid Spin, keeping your rocks on the field...
Hmm... good point on the Gliscor thing, as it hasn't done as much as I would've liked. However, I'm not going to switch to a full defensive Pokemon, since this is an all-out offense team. Maybe a Mamoswine with EQ/Ice Shard/SE/SR. It can help against Meta as well before it gets an Agility in.

I'll be making a couple of changes.

Malicious Metang · Aug 26, 2009

I'll change Jirachi's EVs. As for Gengar, I use Jirachi against it. If I predict a switch, I U-Turn to something like Snorlax, who can take most of Gengar's attacks bar Focus Blast, and Gengar usually prefers to Shadow Ball Jirachi, which equals a free switch after I bring Lax in. If it's a LO variant, I can play the switching game with the rest of my team until Gar gets worn down enough from LO recoil that Jirachi can take care of it in one hit.

Great strategy, except it'll be wearing itself out by absolutely wrecking your team. Seriously, it 2HKOs everything here and you have no designated "safe-switch"
besides Snorlax, who gets 2HKOed by Focus Blast. Plus Gengar can like, you know, switch.

Hmm... good point on the Gliscor thing, as it hasn't done as much as I would've liked. However, I'm not going to switch to a full defensive Pokemon, since this is an all-out offense team. Maybe a Mamoswine with EQ/Ice Shard/SE/SR. It can help against Meta as well before it gets an Agility in.

Mamoswine does nothing to handle any threat I have mentioned. I don't know where you got the idea that it helps in the slightest...At all.

@ Yanemga

Eh, if it works for you, go ahead.

Skip Shot · Aug 27, 2009

Bedlam Beldum said:
Great strategy, except it'll be wearing itself out by absolutely wrecking your team. Seriously, it 2HKOs everything here and you have no designated "safe-switch"
besides Snorlax, who gets 2HKOed by Focus Blast. Plus Gengar can like, you know, switch.
Ok, so switch Gliscor out for something that can effectively beat Gar, set up Stealth Rock, and maintain offensive pressure on Agiligross... any ideas?

I was looking at Agiligross, and I realized that it really can't switch into any pokemon on my team safely (aka it gets 2HKOed by at least one move on each of my Pokemon: Gliscor's EQ, Mence's Fire Blast, Infernape's CC/Overheat, Yanmega's HP Ground, Lax's EQ, and Jirachi's Fire Punch).

Malicious Metang · Aug 27, 2009

Skip Shot said:
I was looking at Agiligross, and I realized that it really can't switch into any pokemon on my team safely (aka it gets 2HKOed by at least one move on each of my Pokemon: Gliscor's EQ, Mence's Fire Blast, Infernape's CC/Overheat, Yanmega's HP Ground, Lax's EQ, and Jirachi's Fire Punch).

Um...That's great, but Jirachi's Iron Head and Thunderpunch still offer free set-up opprotunities =( Plus, Fire Punch is not 2HKOing Metagross...like at all.

Skip Shot · Aug 28, 2009

Bedlam Beldum said:
Um...That's great, but Jirachi's Iron Head and Thunderpunch still offer free set-up opprotunities =( Plus, Fire Punch is not 2HKOing Metagross...like at all.

What about a Scarfgar with Hidden Power Ice? Focus Blast/Shadow Ball should 2HKO Agiligross, and I don't lose coverage on anything I was trying to hit before. Since Scizor usually loses to Yanmega/Gliscor as well, HP Fire isn't needed, and I can outspeed other Gengar. Scarfgar would go>> Jirachi.

Malicious Metang · Aug 28, 2009

Skip Shot said:
What about a Scarfgar with Hidden Power Ice? Focus Blast/Shadow Ball should 2HKO Agiligross, and I don't lose coverage on anything I was trying to hit before. Since Scizor usually loses to Yanmega/Gliscor as well, HP Fire isn't needed, and I can outspeed other Gengar. Scarfgar would go>> Jirachi.

As much as I hate Gengar with Choice Scarf, it's actually very effective. You could go that route if you choose. You're also guaranteed to stop Salamence, so that's cool.

Skip Shot · Aug 29, 2009

Bedlam Beldum said:
As much as I hate Gengar with Choice Scarf, it's actually very effective. You could go that route if you choose. You're also guaranteed to stop Salamence, so that's cool.

Ok, I'll go ahead and do that.

Is Offense an Option? (OU RMT)

More options

Skip Shot

I'm back. I think.

Anti

return of the king

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Dark Azelf

☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣

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I'm back. I think.

Malicious Metang

Banned

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I'm back. I think.

Malicious Metang

Banned

Skip Shot

I'm back. I think.

Malicious Metang

Banned

Skip Shot

I'm back. I think.

Malicious Metang

Banned

Skip Shot

I'm back. I think.