A Sad Realization Involving Standards, Kingdra, and Articuno

[Anti]

Now listen up, I've come up with something I haven't used much, but it worked the few times I did. As much as I love Kingdra, I'm going to have to beat up on it for a sec.

HP-75
Atk-95
Def-95
Spd-85
SAtk-95
SDef-95

Are its base stats, and people use it to special sweep with rain dance or choice specs. But what self-respected sweeper goes with those poor of stats? Well, with swift swim, we all know that it gains tremendous speed with decent attack power.

But wait! Take a look at Articuno's base stats:

HP-90
Atk-85
Def-100
Spd-85
SAtk-95
SDef-125

Notice that it has the same base stats here. But Kingdra has rain dance to boost that speed, yes? Well, what people overlook is that Articuno gets Agility to have the same effect. So wouldn't:

Articuno @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Agility
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Substitute / Extrasensory / Ancientpower

Work just like Kingdra? Obviously the EVs need work, I still need to figure out what it has to outspeed, but otherwise a special sweeping variant. But like Kingdra, this will lack power and Blissey will easily take STAB Ice Beams and just lol, as will even poor special walls. But lol, they didn't invent Baton Passers for nothing.

Can also gain a secondary STAB with HP Flying, but then Steels just laugh at you.

Ambipom @ Leftovers
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Taunt
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

Taunt stops PHazing and most hazing as well while it can set up subs to protect it and Cuno from status and Nasty Plot some seriously beef to Articuno.

While you could do the same thing with Kingdra, the EQ resist and the extra bulk make this a real gem to pass to. Still in the WAY preliminary stages vs. the Gross that had undergone lots of testing beforehand. STAB Ice Beam is nice as well, and Dragons like Specsmence and even ScarfChomp are going to bow down to its speed and power.

Steels obviously are quite the problem, which is what Kingdra has over this a lot. That and that it doesn't need so much support and possesses more powerful attacks.

I've found this to work best for late-game sweeps actually, otherwise there are simply too many counters to really make it worthwhile. Really, it worked better in ADV getting CM passes from Celebi, but this will have to suffice.

But the idea, even beyond Articuno doing what Kingdra can, is that sometimes these kinds of similarities are overlooked. For example, Metagross has the same base SAtk as kingdra. How's that for amazing?

I don't know, these kind of things just amaze me ._. Sue me.

But any comments on this set and also any sets of your own that work similar top standards that are overlooked? Articuno is a bit of an example really.

 

[Samson]

the rain boosts water attacks by 50% as well giving Kingdra hard hits with its STAB + Rain-boosted water attacks.

also, articuno has bad typing while kingdra is only weak to one type of move. but still, kingdra is considered BL.

 

[Anti]

the rain boosts water attacks by 50% as well giving Kingra hard hits with its STAB + Rain-boosted water attacks.

Good point, but I can't tell you how many times in both gens that TTar flat out ruins that. EDIT: Especially this gen with SDef boost and then Kingdra is usually on the wrong side of a OHKO.

 

[Arcknight316]

Seadra gets Agility, and:
SATK 95
SPD 85

Haw Haw.

 

[Horo]

Articuno get's stealth rocked for 1/2 it's life, thats something to think about. o_o

 

[Anti]

Articuno get's stealth rocked for 1/2 it's life, thats something to think about. o_o

Being a huge Articuno fan, I've pretty much found ways to work around that :P Rapid Spin support works, and if Ambipom comes out and they want to set up SR again, you'll usually get in TWO nasty plot passes to Cuno which really makes it potent (obviously). It can also roost off the damage if you'd like that in the last slot.

Keep in mind that Articuno was a mere example guys, this is more about pokemon that go unnoticed that can perform certain tasks better than people think.

 

[Toothache]

Kingdra has something that Articuno doesn't - the ability to OHKO Blissey with a special move.

That's right a SPECIAL move. A critical hit from Modest Sniper Kingdra using Draco Meteor can potentially clear out that pink blob in one hit. And that's coming from that average base SpAtt (but a x3 critical though).

 

[Anti]

Kingdra has something that Articuno doesn't - the ability to OHKO Blissey with a special move.

That's right a SPECIAL move. A critical hit from Modest Sniper Kingdra using Draco Meteor can potentially clear out that pink blob in one hit. And that's coming from that average base SpAtt (but a x3 critical though).

I'm not really familiar with Sniper actually (though I most love people coming to my 2nd favorite pokemon of all time's defense :P). Eh, I guess I'm no good using Kingdra this gen.

 

[Toothache]

Sniper basically changes the critical hit modifier from x2 damage to x3 damage.

Damage: 28.71% - 33.75% Life Orb Modest Kingdra vs 252 HP / 6 SpDef Blissey
Damage: 86.13% - 101.25% Life Orb Modest Kingdra vs 252 HP / 6 SpDef Blissey (critical hit)

With Stealth Rock down it is almost a guaranteed KO.

Also for the laugh, here is the Choice Specs calculations:
Damage: 33.19% - 39.08% Choice Specs Modest Kingdra vs 252 HP / 6 SpDef Blissey
Damage: 99.57% - 117.24% Choice Spect Modest Kingdra vs 252 HP / 6 SpDef Blissey (critical hit)

A OHKO almost every time with a crit Choice Specs Draco Meteor. With Spikes/Stealth Rock/Sand Storm damage that is a confirmed OHKO each and every time.

 

[Anti]

Sniper basically changes the critical hit modifier from x2 damage to x3 damage.

Damage: 28.71% - 33.75% Life Orb Modest Kingdra vs 252 HP / 6 SpDef Blissey
Damage: 86.13% - 101.25% Life Orb Modest Kingdra vs 252 HP / 6 SpDef Blissey (critical hit)

With Stealth Rock down it is almost a guaranteed KO.

Also for the laugh, here is the Choice Specs calculations:
Damage: 33.19% - 39.08% Choice Specs Modest Kingdra vs 252 HP / 6 SpDef Blissey
Damage: 99.57% - 117.24% Choice Spect Modest Kingdra vs 252 HP / 6 SpDef Blissey (critical hit)

A OHKO almost every time with a crit Choice Specs Draco Meteor. With Spikes/Stealth Rock/Sand Storm damage that is a confirmed OHKO each and every time.

I guess that's motivation to give blissey substitute, lol

Wow, I should try out Kingdra again knowing all of this O_o

 

[Dark Azelf]

I guess that's motivation to give blissey substitute, lol

Wow, I should try out Kingdra again knowing all of this O_o

Doesnt Kingdra get Focus energy aswell ? Good God Poor Blissey ._.

 

[Towlie]

Kingdra's normally carry

Waterfall
Draco Meteor
Rain Dance
Surf/Hydro Pump

Kingdra's stats are all balanced out, so it can hit Blissey hard with Waterfall. 2HKO I believe.

 

[Ársa]

lol at your Thread Anti. It is amazing that someone would do that, but yes. As for the sets:

Kingdra + Rain Dance = Doubled Speed + 50% Extra on STAB.

Add Choice Specs and Surf is pretty damn scary. I know you said you can work around the Stealth Rock Idea, and it can work, but most will capitalize on your Rapid Spinner early, then set up again. Cuno has Roost for a reason, but it can still get hit hard or statused if it is a rotating cycle, and your opponent can predict what will happen.

Other than that, it looks pretty nice, I'm thinking of running a Cuno in my team, after seeing how much you love it. (Second best legend behind Latias, don't ask why ;))

~T_S

 

[Anti]

No need to bump my thread because somebody caught plagiarism disease but...uh, thanks?

Articuno makes a cool sweeper (no pun intended), but I've found Kingdra's advantages to be really useful over Articuno. for novelty purposes, the sweeper set is a good load of fun to use. lol, it does put quite the beating on Dragons, which can come in handy lol

I guess I should copyright that Choice Scarf Metagross now lol (for those who are clueless as to what I'm talking about, look in my sig.)

I'm not really angry more as I am surprised at what happened. If you're going to copy an idea of mine, at least use one of my better ones...but I'm just a bit lost for words lol

Eh, life happens :P

 

[Ársa]

lol, didn't think it warranted a PM, that's all. ;)

~T_S

 

[Anti]

Nah, it's fine...PM me whenever, it's fun looking through random stuff to pass time here anyways.

But...considering this thread died awhile back, I might as well let it fulfill its destiny...mods can close 'er up. If you have anything to say, go ahead and say it, I really don't mind...but the request for this to be locked remains valid. alrighty then...

 

[Ársa]

On another note, are you battling purely on Shoddy?

~T_S

 

[Anti]

On another note, are you battling purely on Shoddy?

~T_S

If you tell me how to center my sig, I'll tell you >.>

Yeah, but to PM this goes! Let's stap on-topic plz ^_^ Though it woul;d be better if you just let this die...or Smarties/Loquacity can close, I don't care.