5th Gen Anyone else agree with Team Plasma?

zidiane

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    • Seen Dec 18, 2014
    At the very beginning, when you first meet them and they're talking about how wrong it was for trainers to forcefully imprison Pokemon, turning them into slaves, then thinking the Pokemon actually enjoyed fighting until it faints from injury. I was really excited for this new enemy, unlike all the other teams whose goals I don't even remember (Global Domination...). I thought this was going to bring a new element to playing the game.

    Spoilers ahead.

    But then... I saw them using Pokemon too, and I felt a little gypped, but reasoned that they HAD to have Pokemon, or it would be no fun. Then, I saw Ghestis go all bat-****, and felt completely ripped off. I thought there was maybe going to be a scene down the road where you decide to release all of your pokemon... but you see that they actually do love you and want to stay with you.

    So, who else here (at first) aggreed and understood Team Plasma?
     
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    I agree but team plasma would always have pokemon because if they didn't have pokemon then they would be defeated easily and they would make a fool of themselves. I normally find them a neutral type of people not evil too much.
     
    I think that Ghetsis shouldn't have gone crazy because after all he does say that he wants to rule over people using Pokemon against them once everyone released their Pokemon, so I think they are still evil by default, since they're dumb mooks, not actually aware of whats going on. Ghetsis is all evil, but N is truly good, just has his ideas of what Pokemon like mixed up.
     
    I kinda agree with Plasma, I think they have a good point at the start since really, all Pokemon should be free and not contained to Pokeballs! Or really maybe they just wanted to emphasize what Ash does in the anime but apply it to the games lool.

    I knew there was a twist from the start, though, which is my fault somewhat for following the spoilers so it kind of ruined my fun later on. But hey that last thing you said sounds awesome, I would've liked to see something like that designed tbh but it seems too Mystery Dungeon-ish. :(
     
    While Plasma's intentions are noble, I don't agree with them on that everyone is forcing pokemon to be contained within pokeballs. Some pokemon actually want to go on an adventure and see the world.
     
    Sorry for the spoilers, I'm not used to censoring myself.

    And in the games, you're worse than Ash. He regularly lets his pokemon out and talks with them, he forms bonds with them, and if one of his pokemon wants to leave then he sets them free. The only time your pokemon see the light of day is either when you want them to fight another Pokemon until only one of them is left standing, when you release them because you've found another version of that pokemon that's stronger, when you want to ride on it's back (either for it to fly you across the country, or for it to float you across the water), or when you want them to copulate. Team Plasma fits more in the game, imo.

    Also, it's possible that these pokemon you catch have families. What if, in your jouney, you catch a Moma Pikachu and then take it with you because you decide that it wants to see the world. Then there are 4-10 Pikachu babies left without a mother (Unless in the wild, Mammals have eggs as well), probably to be eaten by a nearby pokemon, unless of course you stole that one from it's family as well.
     
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    I'm still kinda on the fence about this one. I think it should be up to the pokemon if they follow you or not. If they're all happy when they're with you, then that's fine, keep them.
     
    I know this is the section for the games but I feel that the manga really explains the views of Team Plasma/N much better than the games because the games are shadowed by Ghetsis not actually caring. In the manga, N explains that fighting using a Pokemon isn't necessarily a bad thing. Spoilers ahead for the manga so be careful.

    Spoiler:


    In that version of Team Plasma, I completely agree. Most, if not all, Pokemon can understand human speech, are capable of reason, and can therefore be treated as friends that aren't great at communicating instead of slaves.
     
    I believe N but Ghetsis was just screwing him up. N's a cool guy.
     
    At first I did and I thought N completely had the right idea. Because you do really forcefully imprison Pokemon. But the Pokemon want to be with you. That was his one mistake. And Ghetsis comes along and screws everything up...
     
    Toujours said:
    Most, if not all, Pokemon can understand human speech, are capable of reason, and can therefore be treated as friends that aren't great at communicating instead of slaves.
    Click to expand...

    So, like, dog fights are okay because they don't understand human language and can't reason with us? Because, I mean, they were born capable of fighting, so we should just enslave them and bet money on who wins (Why do you think every trainer you beat gives you money, and you give them money when you lose? Did you think they just dropped 7000 PoKe$?)?
     
    zidiane said:
    So, like, dog fights are okay because they don't understand human language and can't reason with us? Because, I mean, they were born capable of fighting, so we should just enslave them and bet money on who wins (Why do you think every trainer you beat gives you money, and you give them money when you lose? Did you think they just dropped 7000 PoKe$?)?
    Click to expand...

    Whoa. Chill. It's a game. Pokemon are not real.

    The way we treat animals in general, even not illegal, we would never be allowed to treat a human being because...we're humans. Imagine locking a person in a house, not allowing them to leave, giving them the same food every day and only water to drink, attaching a rope to them when they leave so they can't run away. That's not how you'd treat a human. My point is that Pokemon are often compared to animals (take, for example, what you just did), when they shouldn't be because it's not the body that makes a human special, it's the mind and the capability of reason that sets us apart from animals. Since Pokemon for the most part also have that ability to reason, they should be treated more like humans than animals. However, it has been said both in the anime and in the manga that Pokemon want to fight. It's an instinct for them (or a shared hobby), and something enjoyable for them to do. Imagine a boxer - they're not fighting because they're being forced, they just enjoy boxing even if they end up hurt.

    The point of the manga view of it was if they want to fight, let them fight. If not, don't.
     
    The thing about Team Plasma is that they claim that they're trying to free Pokémon from the tyranny of humans. However, they've neglected about this one critical fact: Pokéballs are designed to capture, not enslave, the said Pokémon.

    Most Pokémon would be able to turn against their trainers in their own power, & for the most part nothing can be done about it. This isn't the case, however. Most Pokémon have chosen to co-exist with humans in a peaceful manner, & some actually do enjoy the company of humans.

    With all this, I would say that Team Plasma's logic is incredibly flawed.
     
    Oh, I'm not upset. I'm just trying to make a point. See, smiley :)

    If what is done to pokemon was done to any other sentient creature, it would be wrong. And in the wild, Pokemon are CAPABLE of fighting, but they don't go around fighting any other pokemon they meet. They act like normal animals, fighting to defend themselves, to survive, to protect territory, to get food, etc etc. So... Man, this is just a waste of time. We won't agree if we haven't so far.
     
    zidiane said:
    At the very beginning, when you first meet them and they're talking about how wrong it was for trainers to forcefully imprison Pokemon, turning them into slaves, then thinking the Pokemon actually enjoyed fighting until it faints from injury. I was really excited for this new enemy, unlike all the other teams whose goals I don't even remember (Global Domination...). I thought this was going to bring a new element to playing the game.

    Spoilers ahead.

    But then... I saw them using Pokemon too, and I felt a little gypped, but reasoned that they HAD to have Pokemon, or it would be no fun. Then, I saw Ghestis go all bat-****, and felt completely ripped off. I thought there was maybe going to be a scene down the road where you decide to release all of your pokemon... but you see that they actually do love you and want to stay with you.

    So, who else here (at first) aggreed and understood Team Plasma?
    Click to expand...

    I have a fangame idea that sounds ludicrous, and it is this- you don't go on a journey, you are just an average 10 year old trainer and when you go to the Pokemon Bounce House, people bring in Pokemon like Charizard, Dragonite, etc. It ruins the place. Team Plasma was right about those people!
     
    Nope, I want to battle my mystical creatures as much as I please if I ever arrive at the pokemon world to be honest.
     
    zidiane said:
    Oh, I'm not upset. I'm just trying to make a point. See, smiley :)

    If what is done to pokemon was done to any other sentient creature, it would be wrong. And in the wild, Pokemon are CAPABLE of fighting, but they don't go around fighting any other pokemon they meet. They act like normal animals, fighting to defend themselves, to survive, to protect territory, to get food, etc etc. So... Man, this is just a waste of time. We won't agree if we haven't so far.
    Click to expand...

    Well you don't fight every Pokemon you see in the games and anime either. You see them in Pokemon centers, you see them in towns, you even see them from the trainers you defeat. They aren't like constant fighting machines, lol.

    Your assumption that they act like animals in the wild is flawed too, if we go by the logic that they have human levels of reason and can communicate with each other, why would they act like normal animals in the wild? :P
     
    Nah. Think- if Team Plasma actually achieved that goal they'd bankrupt half the world! So much is tied to the raising of and bonding with Pokemon- Pokemon Centers, items, things like the Battle Subway- it's all be a big waste of cash if nobody could keep Pokemon anymore.
     
    Actually, when I played White for the first time sometime during Spring of last year, I was shocked when N told the player about their intentions for the game. I thought Team Plasma was just gonna be another Team Rocket/Magma/Aqua/Galactic and want to exploit Pokemon for taking over the world and such. But when they revealed that their intentions were good, I was immediately suspicious. Plus what made their whole plan kind of hilarious to me was that out of all their efforts to convince people to release their Pokemon and that having a Pokemon is bad, they also had Pokemon and even used them for battling. AND it seemed like N was always dumping his Pokemon for new ones every time you battled him.

    I did start thinking about what N and Ghetsis say throughout the game, and thought about how in the games we only take out our Pokemon when we want them to fight, dance, cook dinner, etc, for our amusement. I had always trusted that N was actually going to turn out to be a good guy. He seemed like a caring kind of doode. I did agree with Team Plasma, but in the end, I guess Ghetsis finally revealed he too just wanted to exploit Pokemon.

    Oh well.
     
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