Are we all Agnostic?

[Talon]

Do you think that everyone is Agnostic?
I, myself, label myself as Agnostic.

An Agnostic is someone who does not believe nor disbelieve in a deity. Most commonly, God.
I have a different view than the technical definition: Someone who simply doesn't know.

I don't know if there is a God or Afterlife, and I don't know how the universe was created. I can't understand any of that.

No one really knows for sure that there is a God. No one can be certain.

I do think that there is some sort of an Afterlife, but I don't want there to be. I wan't to just be dead, but that's another debate.

I do think that we are all Agnostic, to an extant. Here's why:
I'm just going to use Christians as an example, I have nothing against them, just keep that in mind.
Someone who will not admit that they don't know is a Christian.
Someone who still believes in the Christian teachings, but admits that they don't know if it's correct, is a Christian-Agnostic.
Someone who admits that they don't know, and accepts it that they don't know - whether they want there to be a God or not - is Agnostic.

Agnosticism is not a religion. It is not a belief system. It is how you think. It's you mentality about the whole thing. If you really want to label yourself after a religion, then you are then [Insert Religion Name Here]-Agnostic.

No one really knows that there is a God. No one can know. You'd have to experience it to know it. No one has experienced God, or comeback from death.

So, do you think that we are all Agnostic? At least to an extant. Debate. Nicely, calmly, respectfully, debate.


I have some arguments both against God, and for him.
God is a paradox. He is omniscient, omnibenevolent, and omnipresent. God has not experienced lust, therefore he is not omniscient. If God had experienced lust, then he is not omnibenevolent, because lust is a sin.

Without God, how could anything be? It doesn't make sense that against astronomical odds, everything just came together. It doesn't make sense that against astronomical odds, humanity became the most intelligent species on earth.

EDIT: Let me add something else to this, that I apparently left seem to have not made clear enough.
Even if you are Atheist, then you still don't know that there is no God. You believe that there isn't, but you don't know that there isn't. Believing and Knowing are two different things.

 

[Poki]

No. I am an Atheist. Simple as that.

 

[Talon]

No. I am an atheist. Simple as that.

Ahhh, Atheism. I call myself, more specifically, Atheist-Agnostic. I don't know, but I don't think that there is. You see, that's what people miss. They don't realise that they don't know. You don't know that there is not a god, you think that there is not. But you don't know that there isn't.

 

[Poki]

Ahhh, Atheism. I call myself, more specifically, Atheist-Agnostic. I don't know, but I don't think that there is. You see, that's what people miss. They don't realise that they don't know. You don't know that there is not a god, you think that there is not. But you don't know that there isn't.

If I weren't sure, I'd be an Agnostic, like you. However, I am certain that God does not exist. Therefore, I am an Atheist.

Edit: How can you be both? You either believe that there isn't a God, or you're not sure.

 

[maccrash]

hahaha what/????

"I do think that we are all Agnostic, to an extant. Here's why:
I'm just going to use Christians as an example, I have nothing against them, just keep that in mind.
Someone who will not admit that they don't know is a Christian.
Someone who still believes in the Christian teachings, but admits that they don't know if it's correct, is a Christian-Agnostic.
Someone who admits that they don't know, and accepts it that they don't know - whether they want there to be a God or not - is Agnostic."

what about Catholics who are 100% certain that there is a god and they think with all of their heart that they believe? you've left that out. especially with something as fickle as religion, it's very difficult to group every single person into one category, especially one such as this. there are absolutely people out there who think there's a god without a shadow of a doubt. they believe, man. and by definition, agnosticism is not believing or disbelieving.

 

[lozzop]

I'm atheist because I personally think there is no proof of God's existence, simple as I guess :/

 

[Talon]

hahaha what/????

"I do think that we are all Agnostic, to an extant. Here's why:
I'm just going to use Christians as an example, I have nothing against them, just keep that in mind.
Someone who will not admit that they don't know is a Christian.
Someone who still believes in the Christian teachings, but admits that they don't know if it's correct, is a Christian-Agnostic.
Someone who admits that they don't know, and accepts it that they don't know - whether they want there to be a God or not - is Agnostic."

what about Catholics who are 100% certain that there is a god and they think with all of their heart that they believe? you've left that out. especially with something as fickle as religion, it's very difficult to group every single person into one category, especially one such as this. there are absolutely people out there who think there's a god without a shadow of a doubt. they believe, man. and by definition, agnosticism is not believing or disbelieving.

They don't really know. They think that there is, but none of them know for a fact there is. No one can be 100% sure, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Just because they believe doesn't mean they know. I believe that Disney World does exist, but I've never been there, I've never experienced it, so I don't know for a fact that it does exist.
Also, I did mention that the real definition of Agnosticism is not believing or disbelieving.

 

[Sopheria]

It depends on how you define agnostic. If you define agnostic as someone who doesn't know whether or not there are any gods, then yes, I personally believe everyone is an agnostic, because I think that if there are any gods they're on another plane of existence and therefore we're unable to know anything about them.

On the other hand, if you define it as someone who claims to have no knowledge about the existence of gods, then no, not everyone is agnostic. I think this is the general definition, and the one that is more useful for discussion.

 

[maccrash]

They don't really know. They think that there is, but none of them know for a fact there is. No one can be 100% sure, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Just because they believe doesn't mean they know. I believe that Disney World does exist, but I've never been there, I've never experienced it, so I don't know for a fact that it does exist.
Also, I did mention that the real definition of Agnosticism is not believing or disbelieving.

yes, you mentioned that the definition of agnosticism is not believing or disbelieving. people certainly believe; therefore, not everyone identifies as agnostic.

 

[Talon]

yes, you mentioned that the definition of agnosticism is not believing or disbelieving. people certainly believe; therefore, not everyone identifies as agnostic.

Yes, I know that they don't all IDENTIFY as it. I don't identify as addicted to Falling In Reverse, but would that mean that I'm not (I am though.). I mean by this thread, not if you think that everyone should recognize as Agnostic, I don't even think that, but this thread is about whether or not everyone technically is Agnostic.

 

[PokemonLeagueChamp]

Gods, pantheons, higher realms of being and the like don't lend themselves to being easily testable as to whether or not they're there. Frankly, most gods wouldn't respond favorably (or just wouldn't respond) to mere mortals attempting to test their abilities, at least according to all writings on deities.

Of course, the lack of ability to prove anything is where we get problems. Personally, I'm uncertain. That being said, being told that believing in a God that created everything is foolish but believing that everything just came into being or always was is somehow rational just doesn't make all that much sense to me.

 

[maccrash]

Yes, I know that they don't all IDENTIFY as it. I don't identify as addicted to Falling In Reverse, but would that mean that I'm not (I am though.). I mean by this thread, not if you think that everyone should recognize as Agnostic, I don't even think that, but this thread is about whether or not everyone technically is Agnostic.

your not identifying as addicted to something when you actually are is denial. or something. unless everyone who says they believe in a god is lying, then there are people who aren't agnostic.

 

[Talon]

your not identifying as addicted to something when you actually are is denial. or something. unless everyone who says they believe in a god is lying, then there are people who aren't agnostic.

I completely disagree. I think that everyone is Agnostic. Not full fledged, but to an extant.

 

[Sopheria]

yes, you mentioned that the definition of agnosticism is not believing or disbelieving. people certainly believe; therefore, not everyone identifies as agnostic.

Just a bit of a peeve, but that's not really the definition of agnosticism. Agnosticism is about knowledge. Ergo, you can be an agnostic atheist (you don't believe, but you don't know for sure whether or not gods exist), or you can be an agnostic theist (you believe, but you don't know for sure whether or not gods exist). You can believe, but still not claim to know for sure.

 

[Neo Emolga]

From the looks of it, most millennials haven't been educated enough in God and religious studies to really grasp the concept of God, faith, and spirituality. I guess that kind of thing is to be expected when public schools will teach science classes, but students don't get the opportunity to study the Bible. That's kind of like forcing a kid to only use their eyes and not their ears. So I'm not really surprised that hey, atheism is the new clique around the Internet. It's a shame, because I recently had to go through a very hard time in life, and prayer really helped me get through it. Even though things didn't end up the way I wanted them to, I was comforted in other ways.

I think atheism seems attractive to younger people today because there's no obligations, no real rules, and no expectations. It's a very Hakuna Matata mindset, which seems great and easy at first... until you realize 80 years have flown by and you're now on your deathbed and the doctor says you have less than an hour to live. Suddenly, science, medicine, and technology don't seem as cool anymore when they're no longer of any use. At that point, science says "well, looks like you're worm food now." At that point, will you still believe it's permanent lights out? Or will you stop for a moment and reconsider that hey, maybe there's more to me than what my brain is interpreting?

Christians too, deal with times where we feel like hey, God, help me out a little here. What happened? Heck, Psalm 22:1 beings with "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish?" The point here is a time of weakness is an opportunity to grow stronger. Instead of praying for things to get easier, pray to become stronger, and work toward growing that strength. I'm sure we're all aware that life isn't a walk in the park. It's a struggle of ups and downs and isn't meant to be a perfect life. If it was, then how would we appreciate the good times? Where would the tests of character be?

In the end, I really believe there are souls in each of us, and that life isn't just about pumping up your dopamine levels. Love is from the soul, and it's not just an electrical signal in your brain. We're not just meat or molecules either. We're not just here to pass on our DNA to offspring for a reason we're not even sure why. And we're not the unintended byproduct of an accidental happenstance. If you connect the dots, you'll see the real picture, but if you only look at the surface, you'll just see ambiguity. Even if you don't see it now, I pray each and everyone one of you will find it at some point in your lives. For me, that connection to God is the best thing in my life.

 

[Oryx]

I used to call myself agnostic, because like you I reasoned that I had no way of knowing if a higher being existed, so I couldn't be sure. Then someone pointed out to me that I have no way of knowing if vampires exist, or werewolves, or a tiny invisible talking armadillo that has an affinity for sidewalk chalk, but if someone asked me if they existed, I would say that they didn't. There's always a tiny amount of uncertainty in something scientific; you technically have no way of knowing whether or not the thing you drop is going to obey the rules of gravity and fall to the ground, because from a scientific perspective there is still a tiny chance that gravity doesn't work how we think it does. However, we acknowledge this chance as so small to be negligible, so we think of gravity as a fact, not a belief.

So all this really comes down to how much scientific doubt you think there is, which means that agnosticism is not extended to all people, just those that believe there is significant scientific doubt on the subject of God.

 

[Sopheria]

I think atheism seems attractive to younger people today because there's no obligations, no real rules, and no expectations. It's a very Hakuna Matata mindset, which seems great and easy at first... until you realize 80 years have flown by and you're now on your deathbed and the doctor says you have less than an hour to live. Suddenly, science, medicine, and technology don't seem as cool anymore when they're no longer of any use. At that point, science says "well, looks like you're worm food now." At that point, will you still believe it's permanent lights out? Or will you stop for a moment and reconsider that hey, maybe there's more to me than what my brain is interpreting?

This is a common mistake (or perhaps it's intentional?) religious people make (and in fairness, self proclaimed atheists make the same mistake sometimes), but atheism isn't a mindset at all. There's nothing about atheism that necessitates no obligations, no rules, and no expectations. This is demonstrably true in my case of being an atheist: I do consider myself to have a number of obligations, I observe plenty of rules (for example at my workplace, the rules here on PC, and obviously the law). Just because someone doesn't consider themselves to have any obligations to a god, doesn't mean they don't observe any obligations at all and live a carefree life.

Atheism isn't the belief that we have no rules or expectations, nor is it the belief that it's "permanent lights out". It's simply the lack of belief in deities. Just because someone's an atheist doesn't mean they believe all the things you say we believe.

 

[Deleted member 211486]

I think I get where he's going here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism

As for me, no. I'm 100% Catholic.

 

[maccrash]

Just a bit of a peeve, but that's not really the definition of agnosticism. Agnosticism is about knowledge. Ergo, you can be an agnostic atheist (you don't believe, but you don't know for sure whether or not gods exist), or you can be an agnostic theist (you believe, but you don't know for sure whether or not gods exist). You can believe, but still not claim to know for sure.

was playing devil's advocate with his definition mainly, but thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Lihtal]

Or perhaps, y'know, in lieu of the complete lack of any evidence for ANY religion being able to PROVE their theories people have discarded them for the fairy tales that they are.

You cant assure that first of all, you are not old enough to have seen how the world has age through out the centuries. Let me tell you why:

Over the history how can´t you say everything that is written in book is right. Am i contradicting my self? NO, that last sentence tells you something: Is what you think true? i think not. History is filled up with lies over science, religion and thus everything else why is that you may ask let me put a example:

Lets say you and me are in a boat. we are in the middle of the nothing and the boat starts to sink. In my selfish manner to save my self, i drown you and manage to stop the boat from sinking, when i get to shore and somebody somewhere saves me they are going to ask me how did i end up there, From here on i can say whatever i want and since im the only one who got alive i can completly say that you gave your life to save me or in other instance i can you that you didnt exist in the first place. how are you going to contradict me? You cant because you are not there thus making my lie a utterly truth.

Referring to that, what we see as it can be true, it certainly can be a lie. Upon that you cant say those are fairy tales just because people discarded it, there are other people who belive it.

You can say something is a scientific theory likely to be true if it's observable to multiple people and has repeatable, reliable results. What basis do I have to believe in religion, because the priest told me so? It's asking you to believe in a concept that has no basis in reality.

Wrong. here is where science compares to religion:

Telling me that a theory is likely to be true if its observable to multiple people is the same as telling me that people believe in religion because there are multiple people that believe in God even if its true or not. It´s a popular opinion not a single person opinion. What if you where alone and suddenly a apple starts falling up instead of down? Sure YOU could believe that but everyone else wont. As if you were in a crowd and saw the same thing the crowd would believe you, but the rest of the world wont.

praying to a particular god has no practical benefit, it is all mental. There is no proof that anyone is actually listening to your prayers and helping you through unseen powers, I could get the same relief of expressing desires and emotions out loud by seeing a psychologist or talking to a friend. Thinking "oh I should pray to god, he will surely fix things" is not a healthy mindset to have. It's yourself addressing problems that solves things, not god. I think you know this but your own motivation comes from pretending otherwise.

What if some is actually somebody listening? how can you assure that. simple you can´t sure you could say science bla bla bla. Lets talk about the string theory. SCIENCE IT SELF SUBJECTS that there is an alter world to what we normally see. but hey this is a wrong theory right? a wrong theory that if its seen true by multiple-people becomes a truth. So its just a manner of how you see things and how i see it.

You believe... all we actually know is the physical, to assume anything else exists just because it would be nice is an ignorant concept. I really believe there's a planet on the other side of the universe filled with beautiful women who are waiting for me to arrive so they can make love to me and worship me like a god. Do you realise how obnoxious that sounds?

Ignorant is to ignore the fact that even science proofs that anti-matter is a alter material to what we as rational humans have access to see therefore a multi dimension in which water could burn and fire make you wet. Obnoxious is to think that science is the answer to everything we see, but what about the things we cant see with our bare eyes. Can you deny to me that in some future distance, we can dominate space and time totally going against what is obnoxius and or places we want to be true.

That all may seem like a personal attack but I think it highlights the OP's point of the difference between belief and provable knowledge.

You in fact attacked, a personal opinion with popular opinion. What you all said of the above is connected to provable knowledge which in other terms is popular opinion and so let me tell you something belief is way more connected to knowledge that it is away from it. The first man to chop down a tree belived that wood could help him as a constructing material and guess what it indeed became a useful resources then becoming a knowledge and to now what we know as carpenters.

Onto my own opinion: Yes, we should be all agnostic, because neither atheists nor religious followers can prove that the concept of God and various related subjects like life after death do or do not exist. It would be the sensible opinion to have, based on how there is zero evidence for this subject the most sensible thing to do would be to place doubt in any theory.

Into this opinion i can say i respect it, but in MY OWN OPINION think you are wrong. As an individual i can make a concept of what i want to believe and thus if in my mind i say that hot is cold and cold is hot that is what i take as my personal subject of my own science which for popular opinion i may be wrong but to individuals i may be right.


To finish my take on your opinion because this is a DEBATE and that´s the ¨base¨ to it. And it may seem that i am defending some one. But here is what i think:

Popular opinion makes a lie a truth or the other way, what you can archive as an individual is up to you to decide what you belive and defend it, not to scrub on some else why he is right or wrong. After all how do we know that my blue is the same color as your blue? hm?

What makes us interesting is what you want to belive or not, if you want to be an atheist, fine, a christian, fine a buddist, fine but be it because you as an individual wants it not because you heard others opinion and said well majority has it.

To make people mad: I believe in God and to certain point agree with the opinion of Neo Emolga, and to my self i can say i have proof that he exists. Then again is my truth and don't expect anyone to believe me thus have the opinion to say that everyone else is wrong and im right, even if im not but how are you sure of that? you cant be sure because you don't have my mind and neither i have yours. so my opinion is a subject of what i want, not what everyone else wants.

Selfish? maybe but hell i care more about my satisfaction that about anyones else. Because i know no one here gives a damn about me, right? right. Im done

From the looks of it, most millennials haven't been educated enough in God and religious studies to really grasp the concept of God, faith, and spirituality. I guess that kind of thing is to be expected when public schools will teach science classes, but students don't get the opportunity to study the Bible. That's kind of like forcing a kid to only use their eyes and not their ears. So I'm not really surprised that hey, atheism is the new clique around the Internet. It's a shame, because I recently had to go through a very hard time in life, and prayer really helped me get through it. Even though things didn't end up the way I wanted them to, I was comforted in other ways.

I think atheism seems attractive to younger people today because there's no obligations, no real rules, and no expectations. It's a very Hakuna Matata mindset, which seems great and easy at first... until you realize 80 years have flown by and you're now on your deathbed and the doctor says you have less than an hour to live. Suddenly, science, medicine, and technology don't seem as cool anymore when they're no longer of any use. At that point, science says "well, looks like you're worm food now." At that point, will you still believe it's permanent lights out? Or will you stop for a moment and reconsider that hey, maybe there's more to me than what my brain is interpreting?

Christians too, deal with times where we feel like hey, God, help me out a little here. What happened? Heck, Psalm 22:1 beings with "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish?" The point here is a time of weakness is an opportunity to grow stronger. Instead of praying for things to get easier, pray to become stronger, and work toward growing that strength. I'm sure we're all aware that life isn't a walk in the park. It's a struggle of ups and downs and isn't meant to be a perfect life. If it was, then how would we appreciate the good times? Where would the tests of character be?

In the end, I really believe there are souls in each of us, and that life isn't just about pumping up your dopamine levels. Love is from the soul, and it's not just an electrical signal in your brain. We're not just meat or molecules either. We're not just here to pass on our DNA to offspring for a reason we're not even sure why. And we're not the unintended byproduct of an accidental happenstance. If you connect the dots, you'll see the real picture, but if you only look at the surface, you'll just see ambiguity. Even if you don't see it now, I pray each and everyone one of you will find it at some point in your lives. For me, that connection to God is the best thing in my life.

I agree with you and think are brave enough to express a personal opinion over a place where you get burn with what you think and thanks for the prayers, i do believe that in some point everyone will have a chance. :)