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Chit-Chat: Back to the Grind(stone)

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ZetaZaku said:
I can't imagine playing the game anymore without Frostfall.
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I...I think you're my favorite.

And yeah, I agree. I really feel like a lot of this comes from the fact that people will really eat up Open World RPGs so long as they aren't outright bad in the way of Two Worlds or various others. I mean, as an Action RPG, Elder Scrolls is really only just OK, and it was far more acceptable back when it was 2D than now. And Skyrim, in particular, is a title with little to do other than "kill, kill, kill!". I suppose it never seeks to do anything more than that, but when you're placed in a world that's practically emotionless, mostly functionless, and the gameplay really isn't all that good to begin with...well.

I really just assume that most people liked console Skyrim because it was their first time playing anything like it. Oblivion didn't have nearly the advertisement that its sequel did, but had it actually been given the same pre-release treatment, I imagine it would have been given the same treatment and praise that we're seeing for Skyrim now.
 
The only thing I liked about Skyrim was the obvious maymays.

Arrow to the Knee, FUS-ROH-DAH, ya'll know the drill.

What's with the Skyrim ranting all of the sudden? Someone mentions Skyrim and everyone's firing shots at it.
 
Eh, I never really get enough chances to say what I think about it.

The "time versus value proposition" was another discussion altogether, but no one really followed up, so I suppose this is where we're going. Not that I particularly mind. ES talk is pretty fun and we talk about it maybe once in a blood moon.

Spoiler:
 
Skyrim is a great fantasy world for you to sandbox in once you have the proper mods, but the biggest reason I rag on it is that it isn't a proper RPG as it has many of the signs of Bethesda's decline which would be increased twofold in Fallout 4:

- Lack of choice on how to complete quests the way you want
- Lack of multiple resolutions to a questline
- Uninspired combat and enemies
- Grating level scaling mechanic it inherited from Oblivion (where were these Ebony weapons seventy levels ago, beginning town blacksmith?)
- Shallow C&C
- Bland voice acting
- Fucking annoying memes (No wonder Skyrim's a mess when you have every guard and his grandmother complaining about knee injuries)
 
Whoah, whoah, whoah. I don't much care for Skyrim, but saying it's not a "proper RPG" is a bit much, isn't it? I mean...what makes a proper RPG? Plenty of games have or don't have things on that list, but they're definitely RPGs of some sort. Skyrim might be very bare bones, but it definitely fits into that genre; there isn't any other genre for it to fit into...

...and we're back on the genre problem again. I was going to make a topic about this in the immediate future =x
 
You don't even have classes and specializations any more. In most RPGs you pick your class and work with it. In Skyrim you're a Warrior Mage Rouge that specializes in stealth archery and shouting. It's more of a "God simulator" than Role Play Game. I'd argue that Fallout 4 suffers from the same problems, since with enough grinding you could master all skills and become a god as well.

All of that wouldn't really be a problem if Skyrim at least had an engaging combat. Just imagine Skyrim having something like Dark Messiah of Might and Magic combat, while being able to explore. Instead we got a combat that not even mods can fix. I've tried gameplay overhauls, but none were able to really improve it. There was one that made the gameplay similar to Dark Souls, where blocking and dodging is crucial, but you can notice quickly that Skyrim wasn't really built around that. But I should probably stop before I go into a tl;dr Skyrim complain. At the end of the day, no matter how bad it is, I'll still end up installing it again and lose hours. Another Life or what's it called makes the game feel at least a bit more likeable, especially if you ignore the Dragonborn plot.
 
As long as the cases are red, I don't care what kind of medium NX games come in. CD. DVD. Blu-Ray. Cartridge. Parchment.
 
Ya'll need a good dose of funny Reaper names instead >:))))

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Spoiler:


https://twitter.com/reapernames you can all check out these funny IGNs here for all you care.

Some of you become EDGIER than Reaper mains when you all start ranting. And I'm a Reaper main O.o xDD
 
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Guys, Adventures of Mana is on the EU PSN right now. Colour me shocked and amazed that Square Enix not only followed through, but they did it with zero fanfare and they did it on the EU store first. Maybe this is good karma payback for the horrid week I had last week.

...but considering God Eater Resurrection isn't on there, perhaps not. But I was going to wait until August for that anyway.

I cannot afford this, though. Steam sales done for me, but I still have Star Ocean 5 and the Sonic bundle to get. I don't get paid until Friday. Might have to wait for this...
 
When you tabletop like I do, you tend to have certain standards on what really constitutes as an RPG.

I kind of suck at putting it into words, but this snipet from 1d4chan gets into the barebones of what I generally look for when it comes to Video RPGs:

It's worth noting that there are many vidya gaems that call themselves RPGs, particularly the MMORPG genre that games like World of Warcraft hail from, but most of the time, this is somewhat inaccurate. Typically, the only thing that videogame RPGs have in common with pen-and-paper RPGs is the ability to level up different skills. Due to the limitations of the technology, it's not possible to truly roleplay in the tabletop sense, and most don't even try. However, a few games do at least offer preset dialogue options, but this always leads to a preset conclusion. Either way, the story is going to be railroaded to one degree or another, and your actions will be limited to whatever the programmers coded in. For example, you might be given a "disguise" skill as an arbitrary pass/fail score, but the game might not allow you to gain a bonus from stealing a guard's uniform (or not even allow you to loot a uniform in the first place) when logic dictates you should, because the programmers never thought of it. A good GM can compensate for game-makers' oversight in scenarios that they didn't anticipate.

TL;DR vidya's a nice diversion, but don't allow for creative thinking as in RPGs
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Basically, the more it allows you to utilize sandbox features, imagination, sequence breaking, and creative thinking on the part of the player - the better.

Some of the games on this list are some of the most fun games I've ever played:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Video_games
 
machomuu said:
Spoiler:
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Step into my office. We need to talk about something.

In response to the post above, what do you guys think constitutes an RPG? I know this'll vary from person to person (particularly those of us, like the one above and myself, who play tabletop RPGS). I personally think, at the bare minimum, it needs the "RPG elements" of combat, leveling, and interaction with NPCs of some sort.
 
ZetaZaku said:
Another Life or what's it called makes the game feel at least a bit more likeable, especially if you ignore the Dragonborn plot.
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Oh, dude, hell yeah. I love this mod.

It and mods that allow for killing anyone you want have lead to some fun Skyrim gaming sessions where you could actually roleplay.

My favorite is Grognar Elf-Slayer, who you could pretty much take a guess of what he's like: a sex-crazed (yes, there are mods for that) Nord with a pathological hatred for elves. I paid and hired many followers to stage an all-out assault on the College of Winterhold because Grognar hates anything that gives those pansy-magic Elves a safe haven. Many lives were lost, the College fell and no longer plagued the land of the glorious Nordic Master Race.
 
I don't really have a concept of what makes an RPG an RPG, as the genre has diversified to the point that you can't really quantify it with any degree of accuracy in my opinion. There are a lot of elements that make up RPGs - or are associated with RPGs even, back when the term was more easily defined - and I think generally a game has to have at least two or three of them as prominent aspects to qualify. Things are never just RPGs any more anyway, you have Action RPGs, and Tactical RPGs, and even Shooter RPGs. Lots of diversity.

The crossover between genres and gameplay systems is why I'm so hesitant to define anything as anything these days. I just don't think the genre labels we have are adequate to describe games; they describe systems, and when you can get any system in any game, you can't really use the labels to describe the game without it coming out looking strange. Just because a game has a level-up system does not make an RPG...just as just because a game doesn't have a prominent and compelling story does not make it any less an RPG.
 
Kind of an apples and orange comparison, since Dragon Age II is more of a story-driven Action RPG...although yeah, I'd share the sentiment: it's a bad one. Especially coming off Origins, which was absolutely fantastic. Honestly, I think Origins might have been a fluke, because Inquisition wasn't particularly brilliant either...I mean, it meshed the two combat styles well together (sort of; on anything lower than Nightmare it played pretty much like DAII) but it didn't have the same magic to it that Origins did.

I was mostly into Origins for the party banter and the fantasy cliches, though. I ship Alistair and Morrigan...and Zevran with everyone, because Zevran. Plus there was the Elder Tree. Best random sidequest ever.

...speaking of Origins, it's currently a fiver in the Steam Sale. As soon as I get paid on Friday...
 
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Meloetta said:
Guys, Adventures of Mana is on the EU PSN right now. Colour me shocked and amazed that Square Enix not only followed through, but they did it with zero fanfare and they did it on the EU store first. Maybe this is good karma payback for the horrid week I had last week.
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SE listened!

Meloetta said:
...but considering God Eater Resurrection isn't on there, perhaps not. But I was going to wait until August for that anyway.
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Well, we are not supposed to get GER.
We get it together with GE2 on August 30.
 
You guize, you know what i love? Whenever any game that isn't an RPG like a predominant action game is described by some (or if not, a ton of people) to have "RPG ELEMENTS" when there's a degree of character growth and customization. Oh yeah. Because RPGs were all about character growth and customization. My c*ck grows and customizes itself therefore it has an RPG element to it.

Just throwing it down.
 
I have to admit, I love it when other games borrow elements from RPGs too - I doubt I would have enjoyed Borderlands or Mass Effect anywhere near as much as what I did if they hadn't of had levelling and skill systems. Swinging the other way, I love Action RPGs, too - real-time combat and button combo gameplay really lend themselves well to some titles. Whilst restrictive and often the chief governance of progress, levelling systems are still a great way to get stronger and better in any kind of game, so long as they're properly balanced and not just shoehorned in...and as long as it doesn't become an affair in tedious, painful grinding.

tl;dr a good developer will know what systems to use, won't be constrained by genre, and will get them to work properly. Thinking less in terms of genre and more in terms of individual game makes the experience that much more enjoyable, as it means you're not bound by stringent and often unrealistic expectations~

Satoshi Ookami said:

SE listened!
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I know right? Maybe they're just feeling sorry for the EU right now along with the rest of the world. xD

Satoshi Ookami said:

Well, we are not supposed to get GER.
We get it together with GE2 on August 30.
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I thought we were getting it early too...must have missed the memo. Oh well; I can't afford/don't have time for it right now anyway. It also gives me time to ponder if I want to shell out £30 extra for the PS4 copy so I have more PS4 games, or just get the Vita version...I suppose, since I have a PSTV I literally never use, if I wanted to play it on the big screen with a DS4 I could just use that. xD
 
I was just saying that i simply don't like it when people refer to any degree of growth and customization as an "RPG element" when we already know by heart what RPGs are all about. Just saying. Not hating. Then again, what would people prefer to call them if its not "RPG Elements", "Growth options" "Specialization choices", "Build path" the possibilities are endless. I just really find the whole "RPG elements" sort of overused when game designers incorporate the concepts of character growth and leveling O-o.

Then again, is there even an RPG that doesn't have to be just centered on leveling and stuff where the whole point is to ROLEPLAY, hence living true to the name sake. Then again, Tabletop RPGs like DnD did have elements of growth and build (SORT OF!), then again I don't know I have not played DnD with my DnD friends for ages. Or maybe we can just refer to Fallout 2.

Oh and to trigger a certain certain someone someone, FALLOUT 4 IS BEST FALLOUT GAME! IT SHOOT IT SCORES AND DOESN'T AFRAID OF ANYTHING! (and if people got offended with what I'm obviously saying, then LULZ. Come on, you all know I love Fallout 2, though i do like the First person fall out games)
 
As I said, genres are mired in tradition, which makes them less relevant in this day and age where you can put any gameplay system in any game, and developers frequently do in order to provide a more interesting and unique experience. These things are RPG elements or whatever you want to call them in the eyes of most people because they were originally only in RPGs, back in the days when genre classification actually meant something. You can define it by what it is individually, but it fits under that blanket term. But these things do seem to get incorporated more into other games than vice versa...maybe that is part of the reason people think RPGs are a dying genre - they're often very traditional in their approach, and don't often pull in much from other genres. Or they're slowly being absorbed into everything else as every title that can feasibly squeeze in a character growth system does so...

If you want to look at it that way, then about 90% of video games are role playing games, because you play a role as a character. Stuff like platfomers could be considered role-playing games based on that...comparing tabletop RPGs to video games is fairly pointless, really.

Also, I really want a gaming laptop =/
 
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