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Chit-Chat: Back to the Grind(stone)

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I completely missed out on that point T__T I'm boosted.

Grab an MSI. It maybe pricey, but given the specs it has that almost compares to a mid-high tier PC Rig, an MSI can kick ass and chew bubblegum. A new laptop may be an option for me should my supposed building of a new Desktop Rig may never come to fruition mainly because of house space issues. For some reason our household seems to not have a good place for a new Desktop to be placed, unless i'm willing to sacrifice my lovely study table which houses my current toaster of a laptop, my figurines, my notebooks,

So i might grab a killer MSI laptop should the time arrives and when building a new PC isn't a viable option. Then again, I can always convince the folks at home to find a way to accommodate a new computer. I have a 100 and 1 decent excuses to have a Gaming Computer to be housed in ^^ ("Mom, Dad I'm going to make a career out of making youtube videos. If things go well, I can be rich as heck. Its called AD Revenues. Oh and there's streaming")

(and just to let people know, unlike most Western cultures were young adults at our current age should be living separately from our parents,, we get to stay in our family house till we declare that we want to move out and have our own space to live to.)

and on a random note, I shared a random pickup tip to all of the youngins in a Screenshot thread.
 
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It's funny you say that, I was actually looking at this just before I refreshed the thread. The used one I could afford...the new one? Maybe at Christmas if I put some money aside between now and then...or start selling stuff on eBay.

I would love to have a high spec machine and a capture card for streaming and videos and whatnot, but my current laptop has at least another year on it (or it should) and I can't really justify it. It might be just a pipe dream for the moment...
 
https://www.dualshockers.com/2016/0...-remove-tokyo-mirage-sessions-fes-censorship/

The Community Does what Nintendon't. Yep. It seems that the modders of NA has had enough of Nintendon'ttreatmelikeanadult so they are doing what they can with such dedication and concentration to bring the game into its full core. Hardcore level of dedication and ENTHUSIASM BABY!

Oh and just because I'm calling Nintendo funny names, it doesn't mean that its completely reflected on my overall perception of the company that brought us Mario and Pokeymans.. OH WAIT, TO HELL WITH RESPECT! YES I DO! >: DDDD

and on other regards, MN9 is getting its Inafune arse ripped and torn apart by EVERYONE other than the ones who i want to do so (AVGN/James Rolfe, AngryJoe, Spoony, etc) but Jimmy has done a great job of smacking Comcept a new butthole. So yey! We've already trashed MN9 a few pages ago so no need to pour more of the salt to Inafune's officially Rested in pepperonis career.

I'm dancing like an Eina fan on RAID NIGHT!! WHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
 
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Nintendo of America is really crazy. Nintendo itself is struggling a lot since their systems are quite dry when it comes to games, but when some anticipated games do come out, YOU DO NOT BUTCHER THEM. They've already butchered Fire Emblem Fates, offended Fatal Frame fans on top of making it a digital only release, and if that's not the worst, Square Enix too is butchering their own games for the western audience, with Bravely Second lacking parts of the story, rather than censoring skimpy outfits nobody cares about. And when they don't do that, they put lots of memes into their games. Even Pokemon is suffering from that which has me scared for SM. The lowest I've seen was referencing GAMERGATE out of all things in a Mario game. Now all we need is a new Metroid game where Ridley tells Samus to "Go home gamer girl".

I know this topic was discussed a lot probably, but I'm one of those that only recently with Fates got fed up with it. Removing boob sliders doesn't bother me, removing dialogues and character development does.
 
DID SOMEBODY MENTION MEMES!?



Freedom of Expression is a myth
Original Gameplay born out of a random idea is a joke
We are consumers, controlled by something greater.

MEMES!
THE DNA OF THE SOUL!

They shape our likes
They are our culture --- they are everything we post about!
Expose a gamer to badly used memes long enough, and they become a carrier of DARK, EDGY, and Surviving SAO

And Nintendo of America, your butchering of FE Fates and now your blatant and heavy handed butchering of Tokyo Mirage Sessions has enabled discussions and divisions among people who like to claim "normality" and call down people who overreact to the censorship as immature pervert F***gots (that's what i heard from that camp. I Can't bear typing the said word T_T), and those people who are calling against the censorship calling these normal people "wannabee EDGELORDS who have no idea on what freedom of creative expression means and are the sources of cancer in the consumer gamer mindset, and are dickbags..."

Then again, I dunno what the F88k I'm talking about. CAFFEEIIINNNEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ZetaZaku said:
The lowest I've seen was referencing GAMERGATE out of all things in a Mario game.
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That wasn't a "gamergate" reference. That was a Watergate reference. Very clearly so. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just looking for things to get upset about.
 
Why look for things to get upset about? There are plenty of things to pick holes in that are right in front of us, after all.

You know, it might just be because I'm slightly too young to remember, but I don't remember there being this much fan entitlement and corporate rubbish in video game culture a couple of generations ago. Sure, the console wars were pretty messy when Sega was still around, but that was their image - they were the rebel without a cause, the edgy, cool kids with their cooler mascot, etc. I'm not sure which generation this all started with...last gen, maybe.

But then, we didn't have much in the way of the internet back then, so these things had no way of spreading. Maybe its a globalisation thing.
 
EvilChameleon said:
That wasn't a "gamergate" reference. That was a Watergate reference. Very clearly so. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just looking for things to get upset about.
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It's still bad translation though, as I doubt Miyamato or whoever was referencing Watergate in his original vision.

Xin ZhaoYun said:
And Nintendo of America, your butchering of FE Fates and now your blatant and heavy handed butchering of Tokyo Mirage Sessions has enabled discussions and divisions among people who like to claim "normality" and call down people who overreact to the censorship as immature pervert F***gots (that's what i heard from that camp. I Can't bear typing the said word T_T), and those people who are calling against the censorship calling these normal people "wannabee EDGELORDS who have no idea on what freedom of creative expression means and are the sources of cancer in the consumer gamer mindset, and are dickbags..."
Click to expand...
It's kind of funny how people are calling out everyone who complains about Fates and TMS, because they're pathetic losers caring about anime tiddies, as if that was the biggest problem. They really went all out with TMS that I'm surprised they didn't put hijabs on all female characters (look up wedding dress censor where they censored exposed skin on both arms). Most of the censored content wasn't even that sexual.

It's just funny how different America and Europe are. In Europe it's not uncommon to even see naked breasts on TV at noon, while violence gets censored even in the evening slots. While America is completely opposite from what I see. Nudity ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN while violence is common in both movies and games, though I guess even violence is not as graphic as it used to be in the movies. I remember watching reviews of I think Friday 13th movies, and the first movies clearly showed characters getting their heads bashed or stabbed, while in the later movies screen either fades black or they don't show the head at all, so the murder happens offscreen.
 
Cultural dissonance is an awkward thing, and the lack of any real guidelines for localisation makes it difficult for developers to know exactly what they can get away with including and what they can't...especially with Japanese titles, where text often needs a complete overhaul so that it makes sense in context, and there are various cultural values present not shared by Western audiences.

As for Nintendo, specifically...well, all things considered their localisation practices aren't that surprising. They might outrage a lot of fans who see no reason for it, but Nintendo have always been a family friendly company first and foremost. Their games are for everyone, and if there is even the slightest chance something might be even slightly offensive to a Western audience, they're going to cut it out. Better to be safe than sorry.

I'm not saying their practices aren't ridiculous sometimes and that I don't disagree with them personally, but I am saying that fans overreact and really shouldn't be surprised...their games aren't just for them, after all. There's that misplaced sense of fan entitlement in full force again.
 
I know that Nintendo was always kid friendly and never tried changing that, but they never really hit the low of being compared to 4kids until recently. I remember that 4kids even got more money for every frame they had to edit, so I'm assuming maybe NoA works that way too? I mean look at this, was this not child friendly? Would the game get an M rating because of this?
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It's not like it gets in the way of gameplay, but I've already been through stuff like this where I just laughed because the censorship didn't bother me (removal of petting in Fates), and then months later we find out that actual story and development was cut and replaced. Same applies for this game, except not sure about the cut stuff, but the script was entirely rewritten and made hip for the kids (that aren't even the target audience, because this IS a niche game in the first place). The funniest thing is that TMS doesn't even have a dub, so you're stuck listening to audio that has nothing to do with the text. It's not what people usually want when they ask for Japanese audio in their game, in this case being dub only is better than having two different scripts at the same time.
 
Hyperbolic comparisons are the norm amongst fandoms, especially the more vocal ones. Nintendo haven't gotten any better or worse objectively speaking; this "just as bad as 4Kids" stuff is a load of nonsense in my opinion. It's a popular comparison made by frustrated fans that doesn't really have any objective basis.

Re-writing the script is part of the localisation process by default though; a lot of Japanese cultural values and/or speech patterns have no direct Western comparison, so they're either changed or outright removed, because they just don't make sense in context. As for re-writing it to make it more accessible to Western audiences...I can't say I wholly disapprove of this. I doubt a direct translation of any Hyperdimension Neptunia title would be half as entertaining as what the localisation team come out with, for example. Sword Art Online: Hollow Fragment on the Vita also showed exactly what happens if you try direct-translating something. If you want your Japanese game to be anything other than niche, you need to do these things so that they're more accessible to a wider audience and, as I said...Nintendo. Family friendly. For everyone.

No English audio seems to be a pretty common thing these days, likely because they don't want to invest too much in it in case it turns out that only their "guaranteed" fans end up buying it. That's a fairly common practice. The message the majority is sending out also is that dubs are bad and subs are good and they'd rather have the latter than the former - which I do not agree with on a personal level at all - so...money saved, essentially.

The biggest problem is the lack of transparency, though. We don't know what the process of localisation involves, how they decide what gets cut and what doesn't, and we have to do our own research to find these things out. Other developers aren't nearly so quiet about it. I remember Atlus being very transparent when they localised Dungeon Travelers 2 (which was awful, by the way) when they said what they were removing and why - four scenes, to avoid an adult classification. Other developers will do the same. Nintendo don't. They remain mostly silent and expect their fans to just put up with it...because they do. They're Nintendo. In this regard they're as bad as Square Enix, as they're acutely aware that their IPs are their biggest draw (their only draw, in fact) and that all they need to do to sell a title is to make it a spinoff of one of their biggest IPs.

It's...a perplexing double-standard. Trying to make a niche game for everyone, yet at the same time leaving out key things - like a dub - that you would expect to find in a game for everyone. Trying to please everyone and pleasing nobody, trying not to offend anybody and offending your primary audience who take these things in their stride. I can understand the frustration...but I still think it's all very hyperbolic and ridiculous in the way it is presented, even if the complaints theselves have some merit. But then, I can remember a time when we never got these games at all, so maybe that's just me. Maybe.
 
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It just reminded me of old days of 4kids where not only they edited lots of visual content, but also dumbed down the script and filled it with puns, which might be the memes of old. Just compare the more shounen script of Japanese Yu-Gi-Oh! to the dubbed Yu-Gi-Oh! where they only speak in jokes. That's how I'm starting to see Nintendo of America translation, but I'm sure they won't be the last ones to do it.

Taking a Japanese proverb or a joke and writing something similar that's used in English is a normal thing to do. Translating everything literally makes the text look really stiff and bad, and it's easily noticeable if they do so. But there's a difference between rewriting a foreign sentence with similar English one, and completely changing the meaning of the sentence. On one hand, you have people like XCEED that like to sneak some memes and obscure jokes into a normal sentence; taking Ys I and II as the example, in one sentence they added lyrics from Maneater for no reason "Uhoh here she comes, watch out boy she'll chew you up", but that line for example while being a reference to a song still keeps the meaning of the Japanese sentence where they say something similar. But then look at what happened in Fates or TMS, they didn't just add a joke where it doesn't belong in Fates, they completely cut out half of the text just to add some of their jokes, like the whole conversations between ninjas that ended up as them "..." back and forth.

As for the Sword Art Online case, wasn't that translation released for South East Asia? I think the problem was not being a good translation in the first place than being too literal. Assuming you are talking about the game with lots of "penetrating" in the dungeon. So it wasn't just them translating it too literal, it was probably half machine translation, half fixing the grammar and sentence structure. Neptunia is probably where I sound as a hypocrite, but at the same time, I do enjoy it a bit more ironically. Sometimes it feels like the whole western release is a different game when I listen to the Japanese audio and read the text, but that's the only game I played where memes add to it. But like I said, it's more of an ironic enjoyment, as I like laughing at some stupid jokes and events, so hearing meme speaks sounds more fun than the standard Japanese script that's more like a standard visual novel. The thing is that Neptunia games just aren't really that good, nor have a good story, so the rewritten dialogues didn't remove anything from the quality, they could only just add more to it. And that's where my double standards stand, as someone might find another game to have a stupid story and say it should be rewritten.

It's really funny when I actually see people shouting how a game should only have Japanese on no dubs. I used switch between them with various games, dub especially Disgaea and ZHP Unlosing rangers since they make the game even more funny, but sometimes Japanese too if they use VAs I like. But recently I'm starting to switch to dubs more and more because of the reasons I mentioned. In some games the script gets changed so much that the Japanese audio starts distracting me with how different the lines are, so I'd rather just listen to the English voices that follow the text. So when people who don't understand a word Japanese demand Japanese audio in games like that, I just have to wonder for what purpose. My Japanese isn't great, but I've listened to it enough to watch kids cartoons with no subs, so I can at least tell when the script has nothing to do with what's being said.

The big problem we have nowadays is that people start shouting at any kind of censor the game might get. I remember when people were freaking out of Bravely Second's censorship where they switched a native American costume with a cowboy costume, and people lost their minds. That was a silly censor but it really didn't ruin what the game was about, well aside from the game lacking endings in the western version, which was a problem, but the costume one wasn't. And I feel like the whole "who cares that it got censored" mindset is even more toxic than the people that do complain about little things.

The problem with censoring niche games is that well, they're niche games. Up until now only a small group cared about it. If the new game is no different than the previous games that didn't interest people, then butchering the game to try to appeal no wider audience will cost them. I don't know how Fatal Frame sold, but as niche as that franchise was, pissing off their main audience was a bold move, considering the game is also digital only. Although I personally like the changes more than the original (replaced negligee with Samus costume), but the subject of censorship is really all about double standards. As long as they don't remove something you like, you won't be bothered, but when they remove what you like, then you'll complain. That's the kind of mentality I don't like, and I sadly fall there sometimes.
 
They weren't the first ones to do it, either. Nintendo are a bit weird in that they have a clear demographic of appeal in children and teenagers, yet they also have a very large and dedicated older fanbase who grew up with their franchises, and the end result seems to be very hit-and-miss in this day and age...depending on who you ask.

Not necessarily. The more extreme examples like Fates are always highlighted when bringing up localisation and censorship as bad - and yeah, those are examples of bad jobs of localisation - but it's not always so cut-and-dry. It goes right down to things like sentence structure, and mannerisms of characters, and you just can't capture some of that in translation...and in doing so you can even offend more people than you might otherwise because of how certain gender roles are perceived in Western society.

I mean, replacing "like" with "love" in romance scenes and the like is no big deal, for example, but there is no English equivalent for certain relationships between individuals, and most of the honorifics don't translate at all. It'll be interpreted in a completely different fashion if you leave it as is, or even go for a close approximation of what the characters are saying, because the Japanese express themselves in a completely different fashion to those in the West. Same words, different connotations in context. Replacing it with something more relatable to Western audiences isn't a bad thing, or taking it in another direction entirely, as far as I'm concerned at least, isn't necessarily a bad thing either, because it's essentially the same thing. A close approximation might be better to some, but I'd see that as a double-standard, because change is change, it isn't going to be interpreted correctly by Western audiences regardless because of differing cultural values, and if it's of good quality then I don't think it should matter if it's faithful to the original or not.

I think it depends on what you want out of games and, more importantly, how much you know about the game to begin with. As someone who doesn't do any research at all and typically only finds out about these localisation changes in hindsight, it doesn't bother me all that much if I had a good time with the game in question. I suppose if you want an experience "closer to" the original - which I get a lot of fans of niche games do - it'll be more of a factor. I just get the feeling that a lot of people don't actually know what they're asking for, or just how much gets changed just from a basic translation, never mind a localisation. As for Neptunia...I think the whole point is that it isn't meant to be taken seriously; it makes a mockery of the industry as a whole, and that's what I love about it...especially the first three titles.

I think dubbed vs. subbed, like anime, depends on personal preference - I like things in my native language, so I always go dubbed. I can understand English, so I pick up more in the tone of the characters' voices than I can in Japanese (for example, Melissa Fahn is sassy as hell as Neptune; I don't get that from her Japanese VA) and tone is a huge part of things too. I think dub should be a part of the localisation process, but at the same time, I don't think there is anything wrong with dual audio...as long as it IS dual audio. Sometimes I think that subbed only shows a distinct lack of faith in a game's quality...

Yeah, it has become steadily more toxic over time, mostly because the vocal majority drown out the minority with valid points, or the valid points get buried in mediocrity. I suppose the indifference is as damaging as the extremists who protest everything - mostly because it inflames them to keep going, and it also sends the message that these changes are fine when sometimes they are wholly unnecessary - but I guess at the end of the day people will like what they like and, if it bothers them that much, they won't buy it. Like many problems in the industry, I don't think this one is going to fix itself for years...if ever it does. It's difficult to know if it's gotten any better or worse, because it's only been the last couple of generations that the niche market has really picked up speed.

Well, developers being aware of the needs and wants of their target audience is a thing of the past for most companies, unfortunately. But yeah, it is a topic of double standards, and a ridiculous sense of fan entitlement; this idea that developers exist to please you and nobody else...an attitude we all display at some point, I think.
 
Yukari and I are doing a co-op playthrough of Dark Souls 2 Scholar of The First Sin
 
[PokeCommunity.com] Back to the Grind(stone)


Victorious Chinese Style Fisting by yours truly <3

I'll practice with a little bit of Mei so that I can expand my role-pool so that I'm not just sticking with my guns. My friend actually wants to practice his Tracer and for some reason, he's insisting that I find other characters, but the thing is, sometimes its difficult for me to find a new set of champs to play as because of the typecasted role that I've implanted on myself.

Which is why if ever we end up playing some sort of "team based" game, DO NOT EVER expect me to play a healer or any high pressure supportive role x_x. The other typecasted role that I can do pretty well is playing a big brawler whose in charge of heading straight into the enemy team like a maniac in order to start fights.
 
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Is a man not entitled to HD remasters on his PS4?

I have to say, I'm looking forward to replaying both games - even if I found the second one to be quite disappointing by comparison; that horror atmosphere was gone in the wake of the fact that you had a massive drill on your arm - and giving Infinite a try.
 
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