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I really wouldn't say her goal was ignored, per-se. At least it got more focus than Brock's Pokémon Breeding goal (Other than Togepi which Misty basically got anyways, Brock didn't seem to raise a baby Pokémon from an egg until Happiny in DP, and this was despite Johto actually introducing the Breeding Mechanic). After all, she did catch Horsea, Poliwag, Corsola, and the like, and there was significant focus on her goal in Johto as well (especially Master Quest, which featured the Whirl Cup). Even you have to admit that was definitely a focus on her goal. It really wasn't that ignored. In fact, she actually got a lot more Misty-centric episodes actually focusing on her goal in Johto, and even the non-Misty-centric episodes still focused on her goal to some extent. It may not have been focused on that much in Kanto, but it was still present (aside from her capturing Horsea, her reasons for capturing Oddish explicitly referred to her desire to be a Water type trainer), and even Orange Islands still gave some big hints towards that goal before the goal was name-dropped in Johto. DBZ Fan can put it far better than I can.
And had they kept Misty in AG, they definitely would have given her plenty to do and more focus on her goal, certainly more than in Kanto or Orange Islands, anyways, even Johto. Don't forget, Hoenn is pretty much the only region to be more water than land, and thus have more water routes, and even having an actual aquatic-based major legendary. I actually could think up of plenty of ways to have her continue her goal, and in fact, I could even think up of a similar token quest to that of Ash's badge quest for her.
Besides, regardless of whether you found her a little overrated, don't you think it was a mistake to have her be forced into becoming a Gym Leader when it is clear that she doesn't even like the position in her final three-episode appearance? It would have been better if they actually had Misty continue her journey on her own, something she actually wants. I mean, what would you think if May or Iris were forced to put aside their respective desired goals of Top Coordinator and Dragon Pokémon Master to run Petalburg Gym and Opelucid Gym, respectively, despite clearly wanting to pursue their goals? Would you really think that would have been good for them at all?
Either way, at least we can agree that there's very little that's redeemable about Best Wishes, and was definitely one of the worst series (by my count, it actually surpassed AG in that regard. It's funny, people love to complain about Johto being nothing but fillers, but AG itself actually seemed like it was nothing but filler, especially when Ash doesn't even advance in rank in the league, nor does he decrease in rank, staying exactly the same as in Johto in other words, his winning the Battle Frontier is treated as hollow and meaningless, and they decided to replace May with Dawn just to have her do the exact same goal as her, and right now, May and Max don't even get one Pokémon Sunday/Hoso special. And that's not even getting into how pathetic most of the Gym Leaders in Hoenn were treated [only Roxanne and Brawley actually came across as decent. I don't think I should count Norman as that was clearly just an excuse to force Ash to follow the route of the games].).
Well you have a point.Personally,I didn't find AG that bad,I liked May's progress,from a complete Noob to a very good coordinator.Dawn was pretty much the shadow of may(well I guess everyone who travel with Ash become like Ash).Get 8 Badges/5 Ribbons,participate in the League/Grand Festival,go to the Quarter/Semi-Finals or even Finals and Lose.I hope XY will be different(we all hope,don't we?)
But lets keep this thread focused on BW,not about Misty....
Well you have a point.Personally,I didn't find AG that bad,I liked May's progress,from a complete Noob to a very good coordinator.Dawn was pretty much the shadow of may(well I guess everyone who travel with Ash become like Ash).Get 8 Badges/5 Ribbons,participate in the League/Grand Festival,go to the Quarter/Semi-Finals or even Finals and Lose.I hope XY will be different(we all hope,don't we?)
But lets keep this thread focused on BW,not about Misty....
Right. I also made sure I edited my post to include something directly relating to the topic at hand so it didn't deviate from the topic.
That being said, I pretty much said everything I needed to regarding the topic at hand, and I fear I'll be redundant in my statements if I continue. Probably the only thing I might state about BW that was a glaring flaw that wasn't likely to have been mentioned beforehand is probably the fact that they didn't explain why Charizard is staying at Oak's rather than striking it up with Charla at Charciffic Valley, not that it matters as at least Charizard's been promoted to semi-regular as a result of becoming an Oak Pokémon. All that's left is for Squirtle to retire from the Squirtle Squad and become Oaked.
Best Wishes were experiment which tried to do throwback to Original series. Playing on nostalgia card of Ash traveling with two gym leaders, main girl trying to become master of specific pokemon type and both Iris and Cilan in some aspects resembling Misty and Brock personality wise.,
To emphasize on this writers had Ash receive all three basic starters like they did already in Kanto and Johto, as well modify personality to better resemble his childish, more impulsive self.
Which was one of biggest and worst mistakes pokemon development team could had done.
Trying to replicate OS atmosphere with entirely different characters was questionable as well.
Rather than actually reuniting Ash, Misty and Brock as traveling group which is what fans truly wanted. Craving to see very first cast reunited after all those years for one more adventure together, relieve their childhood memories and witness to established, well familiarized group of friends with each other going on bigger, more challenging tasks. In Ash trying to win league, Brock observing new kind of pokemon species, meeting pokemon doctors and practicing knowledge as future doctor by doing field work. Misty entering prestigue tournaments as follow up from Whirl Cup, meet water sages who could teach her secrets of water pokemon and how to train them better(like Psyduck) working on becoming stronger trainer as possible future pretendent for E4 position inheriting her idol Lorelei.
Having three close friends evolving on their relationship and taking it to more profined levels. As more mature, stronger, wiser individuals bringing that charm, comedy, vivid sarcasm, clash and lively atmosphere which Iris and Cilan couldn't achieve.
Due to not having such varied pool of emotions, history and synergy original trio had with Ash,.
Second cardinal mistake Unova or better known as BW saga did was flushing down the toiled all those years of character development, maturity, experience and strength Ash as trainer and person slowly build up.
Going from well knowledged veteran who came top 4 in Sinnoh league taking down two legendaries to joke of trainer. Airheaded and bumbling character who forgot suddenly how to catch pokemon, lost to rookie with Pikachu who had 4 generations of training and battling behind itself, forgetting all ingenious moves and strategy learning from before,
Getting essentially semi reboot mudding on everything which happened before and destroying continuity.
While not that great was still present until than feeling like were as viewers follow same journey of main hero who evolves over long period of time.
It also didnt helped that Unova possibly had worst league in series history. Full of simplified, anticlimactic battles comprised of dodging and exchanging attacks finishing rivalry with Trip in terrible and rushed way dropping already in first round., Just to have Ash lose to even more clueless character than he was(Cameron) doing worse in tournament for first time ever since he traveled. Going from smart, knowledgeable battler reaching top 4 in DP to run of a mill trainer ending top 8 barely.
One of biggest build ups and interesting features BW had to offer "Team Plasma vs Team Rocket" confrontation on full scale ending cancelled never airing effectively making some of characters like Pierce(one of more skilled and interesting members of Rocket orgnization) a plot hole.
All packaged with Dekolora adventure which was well fairy terrible. Delivering 20 episodes of no real story, no aims for characters to accomplish and path through which Ash, Iris or Cilan would grow forward.
They could had expanded upon it after league and N arc filling up rest of Unova with actual plot through which Ash could advance and have it feel like his journey over there wasn't waste, but provide way for his companions to learn something valuable from it advancing dreams by developing more refined skills in battle(especially Iris).
Making series more enjoyable and significant to follow and bring some of older gym leaders and ex companions like Lt. Surge, Blaine, Clair, Volkner or Misty to be part of something big and relevant . Which could have made for nice change of pace and enjoyable surprise in sense of seeing them develop their stories, but bringing more tension and spice in group dynamics creating hype and help promote BW2 games even better thanks to recognition and relevance going for it.
But nothing came out of it wasting one of best elements games offered in long time turning World competition in joke of tournament called Junior Cup serving main purpose of glorifying Trip and his shallow grudge developed toward Alder. And showing audience how overpowered Iris Dragonite is.
Speaking of which Iris while enjoyable character to me. Didnt had especially good growth suffering from inconsistency and poor planning not changing enough as person. Main purpose behind her journey Axew was barely trained stagnating defeating purpose behind his inclusion in first place( i blame marketing for this), flaws didn't affect her much and ever since Dragonite capture whose issues were resolved in rushed manner and battle with Drayden there didn't seem to be any moving forward as far as dragon master career goes.
If anything i feel Misty and May learned and developed far more emotionally and as trainers than she did. While Dawn although didnt grew much personbality wise, made obviously bigger progress toward her dreams than anyone else.
Shame, because Iris had very unique backstory and lot of potential which just ended up underused.
Same applies to Cilan whose career of becoming S class connoisseur was treated like joke relying mostly on his various quirks and hobbies such as fishing, playing detective role, having passion for trains, ufo objects, science etc. Delivering lot of great comedy and awkward moments, but staying sadly just on that. Not developing much from his journey or changing much as character.
Rivals like Burgundy and Langley were another sadly wasted potential. Being treated like punching bags losing consistently(Burgundy lost every single on screen battle, how sad is that?). And to make things worse neither received any closure just disappearing after Junior Cup.
Thats not to say Best Wishes didnt had memorable, positive things to them.
Personally i liked introduction of Don George tournament allowing that all main characters remain active, and have outlets through which they can improve not being reserved only for Ash. They were great gathering places for rivals and main characters allowing for varied, colorful dynamic too.
-i welcomed TR change becoming more competent villains being given actual purpose, instead of serving as punching bags blasting of in every episode. Though it was inconsistent and came of in rushed manner happening over night. Still it was cool for once to see them successful accomplishing missions.
But writers went one step too far, in supressing their emotions, personality traits and silly antics. Making them often feel one dimensional and static due to focusing solely on missions and omitting everything else regarding their lives, flaws, hobbies and personal squirrels.
-Pokemon rotation while could had been executed better was at least something different and bold from writers part. Appreciating attempt from Ash side in trying to follow formula any other strong, experenced trainers did or do(like Gary, Tyson, Paul etc),catching many pokemon and doing frequent rotation. Because of this there was present more variety to choose from and is quality of skilled and strategic trainers to not rely just on one team and adjust his strategy depending on situation hes put in. But like most new ideas, this one suffered from bad pacing and poor repartition of focus denying several pokemon of proper growth(Palpitoad or Snivy for example come to mind)
-Iris and Cilan as characters were enjoyable for most part . I liked Iris jungle girl aspect and hyper side adding some dynamic to cast and Cilan was well rounded character liking his arrogance and tendency to tease along with showing his caring side and admiration for Ash strategy with many interests like love for fishing, trains, science etc adding extra flavour to chemistry.
When it comes to chemistry it may not be best dynamic we had out of all groups(imo anyway), but it definitely did its job at entertaining me.
-N arc by itself. It was easily highlight of BW series imo redeeming abit for inconsistency and bad job through faithful portrayal of unique game character doing good coverage on story and cause to set up pokemon free from human influence,
But when weighting out pros and cons, Best Wishes is well definitely among weaker series imo. As far as character development, continuity, strength of story, cohesion of group dynamic and joiurney content goes. Delivering too many disapointments, illogical and downright insulting moves greatly decreasing its appeal for what it appears to be many fans.
At least one of Michael Bay's Transformers movies have grossed over a billion dollars worldwide, and they're all still terrible examples of filmmaking by any objective standard. I'm not going to argue over Kasumi's strengths (or lack thereof) as a character again here when we have other threads for that kind of thing, but I am going to make the point that popularity doesn't automatically equal quality.
I believe Weedle was talking about research and reception among fans made by professional experts and other writers about Misty popularity, but legacy, characterization, role and impact. Offering their point of view being described as unusually deep and multidimensional character for children series playing vital purpose in ensuring anime popularity and fluidity of story.
Spoiler:
Critical reception
The book The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture described Misty's portrayal in the anime as a mother figure, calling her a "nurturing component" for the original trio of herself, Ash and Brock.[5] It further described her as an "unusually 'complete' girl of the cartoon world", noting both her feminine sentimentality and her "explosive rage".[6] Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces praised the character as being "particularly nuanced" and described her as contributing heavily to the series' appeal.[7] Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon stated that the anime focused on Ash, Misty was a distinctly significant character especially to young female consumers, neither "butch" nor "dizzily feminine", seemingly "carefully constructed to appeal to preadolescent girls".[8] It added that unlike other aggressive female characters in the series, Misty did not sacrifice her femininity to succeed, making the character further popular with young American women, a contrast to Japanese children who focused more on the individual Pokémon species to identify with.[9]
In studies on the reactions boys and girls had to the concept of Misty as a heroine in the series, girls accepted it and were eager to associate themselves with the character,[10][11] while boys attempted to belittle her efforts.[10] On the other hand, children of both genders felt the character alongside Brock gave Ash a sense of identity and moral support, which researchers attributed to the concept of group identity.[12] In another study, children were shown to associate the attributes of attractiveness and aggressiveness, while college students described the character as romantic.[13] Pikachu's Global Adventure additionally stated Misty also served as a source of non-threatening sexuality for both older and younger male viewers, though the context of such was presented in a more subtle for North American localizations of the series.[14]
[edit] Notes and references
5. ^ West, Mark I. (2008). The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 58. ISBN 0810851210.
6. ^ West, Mark I. (2008). The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 78. ISBN 0810851210.
7. ^ Camp, Brian; Julie Davis (May 2007). Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces. Stone Bridge Press. p. 283. ISBN 9781933330228.
8. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. p. 21. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
9. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 231-232, 282. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
10. ^ a b Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. p. 176. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
11. ^ Katch, Jane (2004). They Don't Like Me: Lessons on Bullying and Teasing from a Preschool Classroom. Beacon Press. ISBN 0807023213.
12. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 169-170, 177. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
13. ^ Ogletree, Shirley M.; Cristal N. Martinez, Trent R. Turner and Brad Mason (2004). "Pokémon: Exploring the Role of Gender". Sex Roles (Springer Netherlands) 50, Numbers 11-12 / June, 2004: 851-859. doi:10.1023/B:SERS.0000029102.66384.a2. ISSN (Print) 1573-2762 (Online) 0360-0025 (Print) 1573-2762 (Online).
14. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 284. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
I think writers did something right with Misty(Kasumi) in Kanto, Orange and Johto when she left such influence on fandom internationally still wanting her back. Among new generation of fans i heard from some of my friends how after watching OS, chronicles or AG cameos(one with release of Togetic was especially liked for emotion, development and storyline originality) and getting to know Misty they grew to instantly like her wanting to see her in new series again. So i dont think its only nostalgia either because new fans didnt grew up with her.
But i respect your feelings and opinion on this subject.
On that same note, I also dispute the idea that the OS was indisputably the best series. If Best Wishes can be slammed for things like lackluster rivalries and rivals, horrible battles, sloppily executed storylines, irritating characters, an overabundance of filler, poorly-handed Pokémon teams, obligatory cameos from past characters that don't mean anything, awful treatment of the regional villain team, and a bad Pokémon League, I don't see why the same can't apply for the original series.
Some of things which happened in BW writers handled much better in OS(like league, conclusion of rivalries, more believable character development(yes OS had development which is often overlooked and mistaken for "filers"), continuity and storyline content). Some of this things are debatable and matter of personal opinion though.
And your right OS had its flaws(every series have them). Although to be fair difference is that in Original series writers didnt had years of experience, trial and error process to see whats working and what isnt. Lacking experience and knowledge in handling adequatelly some things during pokemon early days. With writers themselves not being sure in what direction they want to take characters and anime at that time and how long it will last(becauser initially pokemon was planned to end with Kanto). So they can be given some of free pass for eventual mistakes and missed opportunities.
But in Unova they had 13 years of writing under their belt, proved to know how to handle pokemon, character development, major conflicts, rivals, storyline in more rewarding and credible way. Just to completely drop ball with Ash character, rivals, his companions, villains, major competitions like league or wasting important game plots like World tournament with nothing coming out of it.
So its to expect that people would question some of heavily illogical moves staff pulled of from those series. Another interesing detail is how pokemon director Sutou Norihiko was relieved from his duty and replaced immediatelly after Best Widshes saga ended with new director Testsuo Yajima.
Best Wishes were experiment which tried to do throwback to Original series. Playing on nostalgia card of Ash traveling with two gym leaders, main girl trying to become master of specific pokemon type and both Iris and Cilan in some aspects resembling Misty and Brock personality wise.,
To emphasize on this writers had Ash receive all three basic starters like they did already in Kanto and Johto, as well modify personality to better resemble his childish, more impulsive self.
Which was one of biggest and worst mistakes pokemon development team could had done.
Yeah, agreed. Making Ash into a huge... well, manchild isn't entirely accurate as he's still 10 and thus still a child, but he certainly acted like one compared to before was a very bad move, especially when he, while still somewhat prone to mistakes in previous sagas after Kanto as well as a victim of "resets" thanks to writer meddling, nonetheless was actually proven to know what he was doing and was an actual veteran. And while AG and DP did with various eyecatchers and promotional materials did frequently state that Ash was still 10, this was also the first time it was directly stated in the show that he was still 10 years old, which causes even more problems considering the implication of time passing (not to mention the nature of the goal Ash has does kinda require aging), and even BW actually did hint at time passing (The Bullet Train's usage in Until We Meet Again is a notable example, since last we heard of the Bullet Train back in Johto, it wasn't even due to be complete until the "year after next Tuesday.").
Trying to replicate OS atmosphere with entirely different characters was questionable as well.
Rather than actually reuniting Ash, Misty and Brock as traveling group which is what fans truly wanted. Craving to see very first cast reunited after all those years for one more adventure together, relieve their childhood memories and witness to established, well familiarized group of friends with each other going on bigger, more challenging tasks. In Ash trying to win league, Brock observing new kind of pokemon species, meeting pokemon doctors and practicing knowledge as future doctor by doing field work. Misty entering prestigue tournaments as follow up from Whirl Cup, meet water sages who could teach her secrets of water pokemon and how to train them better(like Psyduck) working on becoming stronger trainer as possible future pretendent for E4 position inheriting her idol Lorelei.
Having three close friends evolving on their relationship and taking it to more profined levels. As more mature, stronger, wiser individuals bringing that charm, comedy, vivid sarcasm, clash and lively atmosphere which Iris and Cilan couldn't achieve.
Due to not having such varied pool of emotions, history and synergy original trio had with Ash,.
Yeah, agreed with that. The original trio did actually have that charm, and while I wasn't particularly fond of the more gradual womanizing gags Brock was doing, he still managed to do some decent things in the OS overall. Not to mention he could have put his new goal to much better use than his old goal, which would have been an improvement for Brock, especially when they won't have to avoid red tape regarding whether to show Pokémon "doing it." And Misty, yeah, including her actually would have worked, even give her a token collecting quest for her Water Pokémon Master goal similar to Ash's badges as well as May and Dawn's Ribbons, and also give her further development as well. Plus it would have ensured more character development as well.
Still, even though BW's group dynamic was sub-par and just a cheap imitation, there is one silver lining in all of this: they at least managed to learn from their earlier mistake with how they removed Misty and made sure Iris actually continued her journey rather than being forced to run a gym.
Second cardinal mistake Unova or better known as BW saga did was flushing down the toiled all those years of character development, maturity, experience and strength Ash as trainer and person slowly build up.
Going from well knowledged veteran who came top 4 in Sinnoh league taking down two legendaries to joke of trainer. Airheaded and bumbling character who forgot suddenly how to catch pokemon, lost to rookie with Pikachu who had 4 generations of training and battling behind itself, forgetting all ingenious moves and strategy learning from before,
Getting essentially semi reboot mudding on everything which happened before and destroying continuity.
While not that great was still present until than feeling like were as viewers follow same journey of main hero who evolves over long period of time.
Yeah, that was definitely bad. I wouldn't even say he returned to Indigo League Ash's level since, aside from Ash at least having his being a rookie as an excuse for most of his stupidity during the Indigo League, unlike in BW, there's also the fact that even Indigo League Ash came across as more mature and smart than BW Ash ever did. Even DP had better continuity than BW did, and this was the same show that, May cameo and Aipom aside, largely treated AG as having never happened (which in all fairness WAS largely AG's fault, at least regarding the leagues, because they basically had Ash still retaining his rank from Johto instead of advancing, not to mention replacing May with Dawn just to have the latter do the same goal). Honestly, I still groan at learning about his mistaking Iris for an Axew in their first meeting despite it being extremely obvious that she isn't one (aside from he not being the same shape as an Axew, her height, whether in full or just the hair, made very clear she was not one because Axew were tiny, roughly Pikachu's height in fact), especially when that was bar none the absolute stupidest thing he's ever done (and I've seen him mistake Team Rocket for innkeepers early in DP despite the fact that it could not have been more obvious that they weren't that since they were still wearing their Team Rocket uniforms under their green coats, and they didn't even cover up the "R" on their chests. Of course, I'd comment how starting with AG certainly Ash and co. fall for Team Rocket's disguises so easily even when they are as bad as one could possibly get and how that was just bad, but that would be going off topic.). And frankly, there was no excuse for Pikachu losing against a rookie who was literally starting out, not even Zekrom literally stealing Pikachu's Thunder. Do those people who claim that excuse forget that Pikachu still has Iron Tail, which is definitely not an electric-type attack at all?
It also didnt helped that Unova possibly had worst league in series history. Full of simplified, anticlimactic battles comprised of dodging and exchanging attacks finishing rivalry with Trip in terrible and rushed way dropping already in first round., Just to have Ash lose to even more clueless character than he was(Cameron) doing worse in tournament for first time ever since he traveled. Going from smart, knowledgeable battler reaching top 4 in DP to run of a mill trainer ending top 8 barely.
Yeah, agreed. In fact, it's largely thanks to all of this that Unova and Best Wishes is bar-none the absolute worst league in series history, actually managing to usurp the title from Advanced Generation (and let me point out, before Unova/BW, Hoenn/AG had Ash barely retaining his rank from Johto, which is definitely very bad especially when the entire point of doing these journeys is to grow stronger, and it was largely because of that stupidity that AG is effectively a skippable show where nothing meaningful happened there). Honestly, Ash should have lost to Virgil, if anyone. At least by losing to Virgil, it would have seemed better than losing to such an idiot like Cameron. Sure, it would have meant retaining his Top 4 rank if he lost to Virgil, and personally I would prefer he at least make Top 2, but at least it wouldn't have him decreasing in rank.
One of biggest build ups and interesting features BW had to offer "Team Plasma vs Team Rocket" confrontation on full scale ending cancelled never airing effectively making some of characters like Pierce(one of more skilled and interesting members of Rocket orgnization) a plot hole.
Yeah, and I heard Gamefreak ordered it cancelled because of Black 2 and White 2 being due for release. Either that, or an earthquake.
All packaged with Dekolora adventure which was well fairy terrible. Delivering 20 episodes of no real story, no aims for characters to accomplish and path through which Ash, Iris or Cilan would grow forward.
They could had expanded upon it after league and N arc filling up rest of Unova with actual plot through which Ash could advance and have it feel like his journey over there wasn't waste, but provide way for his companions to learn something valuable from it advancing dreams by developing more refined skills in battle(especially Iris).
Yeah, agreed with that. The only real silver lining in that arc is that they at least referenced Ash's Butterfree and his mate (though frankly I really think they should have used Ash's Butterfree himself instead of just having Ash raise a replacement goldfish and release it in the same episode). Honestly, Orange Islands may have been a filler arc, but at least it actually GAVE Ash and Misty something to do to make their traveling through the region more meaningful, especially a league or something like that. They don't even have Pokémon Captures.
Making series more enjoyable and significant to follow and bring some of older gym leaders and ex companions like Lt. Surge, Blaine, Clair, Volkner or Misty to be part of something big and relevant . Which could have made for nice change of pace and enjoyable surprise in sense of seeing them develop their stories, but bringing more tension and spice in group dynamics creating hype and help promote BW2 games even better thanks to recognition and relevance going for it.
But nothing came out of it wasting one of best elements games offered in long time turning World competition in joke of tournament called Junior Cup serving main purpose of glorifying Trip and his shallow grudge developed toward Alder. And showing audience how overpowered Iris Dragonite is.
Yeah, they could have actually put the World Conference to very good use in the Anime. It would have had the chance of actually giving Misty true closure at the very least, or even having Misty actually return to the main cast (and let's face it, how they ended Misty's main appearances in AG with Battle Frontier was just not good at all, as there's no way her being forced to continue running a gym and kept on an extremely short leash, with little chance of her even being able to pursue her goal, let alone reunite with Ash, is even remotely a good end for her run). And aside from that, it also would have given Brock an actual cameo, maybe not as one of the GLs since Brock quit being a Gym Leader, but certainly as a spectator for Forrest, who IS a Gym Leader, heck, give Max an actual cameo and give a status update on him especially when his father Norman is a Gym Leader and thus would give him an excuse to reappear (I'd say his sister May would reappear, but putting my loathing of the character aside, the way she left in AG plus the fact that DP treated the fact that she was reuniting with her friends as simply an afterthought makes me think she wouldn't be the type to even temporarily put her journey on hold to see her father participate, not unless she actually becomes Top Coordinator, anyways. Not to mention KAORI, her Japanese voice actress, basically pulled a Hillary Duff and quit voice acting in favor of becoming a Pop Singer, meaning it's unlikely May will ever reappear in the show unless they decide to get a new voice actress for her.). Not to mention it would make up for the horrid treatment the Hoenn Gym Leaders were given in AG by actually showing them to be difficult, and actually expand on the Gym Leaders we already met in Kanto and Johto. It also was a good way to actually promote Black 2 and White 2. Certainly it would have been better than the sorry excuse they called the Junior Cup. I don't get it, I could think up of those kinds of things, as could I presume many others, so why didn't the writers capitalize on that golden opportunity?
Speaking of which Iris while enjoyable character to me. Didnt had especially good growth suffering from inconsistency and poor planning not changing enough as person. Main purpose behind her journey Axew was barely trained stagnating defeating purpose behind his inclusion in first place( i blame marketing for this), flaws didn't affect her much and ever since Dragonite capture whose issues were resolved in rushed manner and battle with Drayden there didn't seem to be any moving forward as far as dragon master career goes.
If anything i feel Misty and May learned and developed far more emotionally and as trainers than she did. While Dawn although didnt grew much personbality wise, made obviously bigger progress toward her dreams than anyone else.
Shame, because Iris had very unique backstory and lot of potential which just ended up underused.
Yeah, and besides, although I initially pegged Iris as being closer in demeanor to Misty than to May and Dawn, now I'm not so sure thanks to some comments made by various people, and the fact that there isn't a situation like the Fiorello Fangirls in Princess vs. Princess that would definitively confirm whether or not she is a Hina stereotype doesn't help matters much either.
Still, on the plus side, at least Iris actually IS allowed to pursue her goal rather than being forced to become a Gym Leader, unlike Misty, which was a huge mistake for them to do that to Misty.
Same applies to Cilan whose career of becoming S class connoisseur was treated like joke relying mostly on his various quirks and hobbies such as fishing, playing detective role, having passion for trains, ufo objects, science etc. Delivering lot of great comedy and awkward moments, but staying sadly just on that. Not developing much from his journey or changing much as character.
Yeah, and besides, I'm not even sure what a connoisseur (which last I heard related to wine tasting or at least beverage/food tasting) does relating to Pokémon? At least with Brock's first goal of becoming a breeder, it did relate to Pokémon directly, even if not in the battling sense.
Rivals like Burgundy and Langley were another sadly wasted potential. Being treated like punching bags losing consistently(Burgundy lost every single on screen battle, how sad is that?). And to make things worse neither received any closure just disappearing after Junior Cup.
Yeah, agreed, and the other rivals were just horrible overall as well.
Thats not to say Best Wishes didnt had memorable, positive things to them.
Personally i liked introduction of Don George tournament allowing that all main characters remain active, and have outlets through which they can improve not being reserved only for Ash. They were great gathering places for rivals and main characters allowing for varied, colorful dynamic too.
That was actually pretty good, really, from what I've read of it on Dogasu's Backpack.
-i welcomed TR change becoming more competent villains being given actual purpose, instead of serving as punching bags blasting of in every episode. Though it was inconsistent and came of in rushed manner happening over night. Still it was cool for once to see them successful accomplishing missions.
But writers went one step too far, in supressing their emotions, personality traits and silly antics. Making them often feel one dimensional and static due to focusing solely on missions and omitting everything else regarding their lives, flaws, hobbies and personal squirrels.
Yeah, agreed. It was certainly better than their treatment in AG and DP which at best came across as an annoyance (quite frankly, they should have cut Team Rocket out in AG instead of Misty, especially if they're just going to make them so comedic that they wouldn't even qualify as genuine threats, which you know is supposed to be the point behind being a main antagonist). Still, I wish they still had some comedic elements, or at least had some of their plans actually make some sense (like for example, the Meowth double agent arc had the revelation that Meowth was snookering the heroes by faking his firing the whole time come across as extremely forced, especially when Jessie and James acted like his firing was indeed legitimate in what was supposed to be a private conversation that Ash and co. couldn't even have been listening in on as they weren't even closeby. It came across as so random and poorly-thought out as the plot twists in Metal Gear, especially the bit about Liquid Snake being Master Miller in Metal Gear Solid and the revelation that he intended for Snake to use the PAL Key to activate REX.).
-Pokemon rotation while could had been executed better was at least something different and bold from writers part. Appreciating attempt from Ash side in trying to follow formula any other strong, experenced trainers did or do(like Gary, Tyson, Paul etc),catching many pokemon and doing frequent rotation. Because of this there was present more variety to choose from and is quality of skilled and strategic trainers to not rely just on one team and adjust his strategy depending on situation hes put in. But like most new ideas, this one suffered from bad pacing and poor repartition of focus denying several pokemon of proper growth(Palpitoad or Snivy for example come to mind)
Yeah, that definitely was somewhat of an improvement, but unfortunately that didn't work out so well in the end.
-Iris and Cilan as characters were enjoyable for most part . I liked Iris jungle girl aspect and hyper side adding some dynamic to cast and Cilan was well rounded character liking his arrogance and tendency to tease along with showing his caring side and admiration for Ash strategy with many interests like love for fishing, trains, science etc adding extra flavour to chemistry.
When it comes to chemistry it may not be best dynamic we had out of all groups(imo anyway), but it definitely did its job at entertaining me.
I hope you're right. And I must ask since I never watched BW at all (though I have read the comments and Bulbapedia) and I want this cleared up, was there ever a situation Iris was in that was similar to how Misty and Jessie didn't act like those screaming, animalistic Fiorello Fangirls in the episode Princess vs. Princess (the ones who screamed, acted like animals, trampled over Ash, Brock, James, Pikachu, and Meowth, etc., etc.)? I need to know because right now I'm conflicted as to whether Iris is a Hina stereotype or not, and I hope it's the latter rather than the former, but some comments made about Iris make me fear she may actually have been the former. And Princess vs. Princess and those Fiorello Fangirls directly ties in because that was my first experience with the Hina stereotype, and my mom mentioned that she hated the episode because of how it depicted women as loud, whiney, and obnoxious, and she also made clear Misty wasn't like that at all, and showed me the screaming girls as what she meant by that statement.
-N arc by itself. It was easily highlight of BW series imo redeeming abit for inconsistency and bad job through faithful portrayal of unique game character doing good coverage on story and cause to set up pokemon free from human influence,
But when weighting out pros and cons, Best Wishes is well definitely among weaker series imo. As far as character development, continuity, strength of story, cohesion of group dynamic and joiurney content goes. Delivering too many disapointments, illogical and downright insulting moves greatly decreasing its appeal for what it appears to be many fans.
Yes, it may have had some redeeming factors, but in the end, it was indeed a terrible series, and assuming the writers can't fix it soon in XY we may be looking at the end of the Pokémon Anime.
I believe Weedle was talking about research and reception among fans made by professional experts and other writers about Misty popularity, but legacy, characterization, role and impact. Offering their point of view being described as unusually deep and multidimensional character for children series playing vital purpose in ensuring anime popularity and fluidity of story.
Spoiler:
Critical reception
The book The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture described Misty's portrayal in the anime as a mother figure, calling her a "nurturing component" for the original trio of herself, Ash and Brock.[5] It further described her as an "unusually 'complete' girl of the cartoon world", noting both her feminine sentimentality and her "explosive rage".[6] Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces praised the character as being "particularly nuanced" and described her as contributing heavily to the series' appeal.[7] Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon stated that the anime focused on Ash, Misty was a distinctly significant character especially to young female consumers, neither "butch" nor "dizzily feminine", seemingly "carefully constructed to appeal to preadolescent girls".[8] It added that unlike other aggressive female characters in the series, Misty did not sacrifice her femininity to succeed, making the character further popular with young American women, a contrast to Japanese children who focused more on the individual Pokémon species to identify with.[9]
In studies on the reactions boys and girls had to the concept of Misty as a heroine in the series, girls accepted it and were eager to associate themselves with the character,[10][11] while boys attempted to belittle her efforts.[10] On the other hand, children of both genders felt the character alongside Brock gave Ash a sense of identity and moral support, which researchers attributed to the concept of group identity.[12] In another study, children were shown to associate the attributes of attractiveness and aggressiveness, while college students described the character as romantic.[13] Pikachu's Global Adventure additionally stated Misty also served as a source of non-threatening sexuality for both older and younger male viewers, though the context of such was presented in a more subtle for North American localizations of the series.[14]
[edit] Notes and references
5. ^ West, Mark I. (2008). The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 58. ISBN 0810851210.
6. ^ West, Mark I. (2008). The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 78. ISBN 0810851210.
7. ^ Camp, Brian; Julie Davis (May 2007). Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces. Stone Bridge Press. p. 283. ISBN 9781933330228.
8. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. p. 21. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
9. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 231-232, 282. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
10. ^ a b Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. p. 176. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
11. ^ Katch, Jane (2004). They Don't Like Me: Lessons on Bullying and Teasing from a Preschool Classroom. Beacon Press. ISBN 0807023213.
12. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 169-170, 177. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
13. ^ Ogletree, Shirley M.; Cristal N. Martinez, Trent R. Turner and Brad Mason (2004). "Pokémon: Exploring the Role of Gender". Sex Roles (Springer Netherlands) 50, Numbers 11-12 / June, 2004: 851-859. doi:10.1023/BERS.0000029102.66384.a2. ISSN (Print) 1573-2762 (Online) 0360-0025 (Print) 1573-2762 (Online).
14. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 284. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
Yeah, that's what I was referring to, among other things.
I think writers did something right with Misty(Kasumi) in Kanto, Orange and Johto when she left such influence on fandom internationally still wanting her back. Among new generation of fans i heard from some of my friends how after watching OS, chronicles or AG cameos(one with release of Togetic was especially liked for emotion, development and storyline originality) and getting to know Misty they grew to instantly like her wanting to see her in new series again. So i dont think its only nostalgia either because new fans didnt grew up with her.
But i respect your feelings and opinion on this subject.
Yeah, I can attest to that. I know at least one kid at the nearby Vanderland Elementary School when paying a visit to my high school helped me get signatures at the school nearby, and considering his age, it's extremely unlikely he would have grown up with the Original Series, only catching the tail end of it at best. I also know a few people who were recruited to the Tumblr Misty group who before last year weren't even familiar with the character or the group from what they said. So yeah, she definitely has an impact, and it certainly isn't nostalgia that's motivating them either, since, again, how can they be nostalgic if they didn't even grow up with the original series at all yet still want her to come back?
Some of things which happened in BW writers handled much better in OS(like league, conclusion of rivalries, more believable character development(yes OS had development which is often overlooked and mistaken for "filers"), continuity and storyline content). Some of this things are debatable and matter of personal opinion though.
Yeah, agreed. There's also the fact that unlike BW which had solely one Pokémon League, the Original Series had two Pokémon Leagues, three if one counts the Orange Islands, and thus one bad league result was offset by two very great leagues. And frankly, character development is not "filler" by any means at all especially when the entire point of character development is to improve and expand on a character and reveal more of their history.
And your right OS had its flaws(every series have them). Although to be fair difference is that in Original series writers didnt had years of experience, trial and error process to see whats working and what isnt. Lacking experience and knowledge in handling adequatelly some things during pokemon early days. With writers themselves not being sure in what direction they want to take characters and anime at that time and how long it will last(becauser initially pokemon was planned to end with Kanto). So they can be given some of free pass for eventual mistakes and missed opportunities.
Yeah, and the original series actually does have some justification for Ash's behavior there since it was his first time as well.
But in Unova they had 13 years of writing under their belt, proved to know how to handle pokemon, character development, major conflicts, rivals, storyline in more rewarding and credible way. Just to completely drop ball with Ash character, rivals, his companions, villains, major competitions like league or wasting important game plots like World tournament with nothing coming out of it.
Yes, there was no excuse for what the writers did in Unova, as quite frankly, being at it for 13 years, they should know better. Probably the only thing that might truly qualify as an actual improvement over the original series for BW was that they actually made sure the female character actually IS allowed to pursue her goal instead of forced into a gym this time around.
So its to expect that people would question some of heavily illogical moves staff pulled of from those series. Another interesing detail is how pokemon director Sutou Norihiko was relieved from his duty and replaced immediatelly after Best Widshes saga ended with new director Testsuo Yajima.
Come to think of it, didn't Masamitsu Hidaka also end up removed and replaced immediately after Advanced Generation for similar reasons (I heard that Advanced Generation did very poorly in terms of ratings, and from what I could tell of the series overall, namely the bad gym battles that made most of the GLs seem extremely weak and pathetic, Brawley and Roxanne exempted, plus the poor League turnout [not as bad as BW, fortunately, but still] and the needless and pointless expansion of Pokémon Contests to a full-length goal just to have May replaced at the end of AG, and the Battle Frontier victory turning out to be extremely hollow)? I know WPM of Pokebeach mentioned he was the Storyboard Director for the Original Series up to either the end of Battle Frontier or the very beginning of Diamond and Pearl in his interview with him.
Either way, if they fired their own director immediately after Best Wishes ended, that should hint that even the writers realized it was a terrible saga. I don't think even Johto got that kind of a layoff, and from the way people like Cybercubed/Scott85/Gliscor'd was talking, Johto was the worst thing ever due to its "fillers."
Yeah, they could have actually put the World Conference to very good use in the Anime. It would have had the chance of actually giving Misty true closure at the very least, or even having Misty actually return to the main cast (and let's face it, how they ended Misty's main appearances in AG with Battle Frontier was just not good at all, as there's no way her being forced to continue running a gym and kept on an extremely short leash, with little chance of her even being able to pursue her goal, let alone reunite with Ash, is even remotely a good end for her run). And aside from that, it also would have given Brock an actual cameo, maybe not as one of the GLs since Brock quit being a Gym Leader, but certainly as a spectator for Forrest, who IS a Gym Leader, heck, give Max an actual cameo and give a status update on him especially when his father Norman is a Gym Leader and thus would give him an excuse to reappear (I'd say his sister May would reappear, but putting my loathing of the character aside, the way she left in AG plus the fact that DP treated the fact that she was reuniting with her friends as simply an afterthought makes me think she wouldn't be the type to even temporarily put her journey on hold to see her father participate, not unless she actually becomes Top Coordinator, anyways. Not to mention KAORI, her Japanese voice actress, basically pulled a Hillary Duff and quit voice acting in favor of becoming a Pop Singer, meaning it's unlikely May will ever reappear in the show unless they decide to get a new voice actress for her.). Not to mention it would make up for the horrid treatment the Hoenn Gym Leaders were given in AG by actually showing them to be difficult, and actually expand on the Gym Leaders we already met in Kanto and Johto. It also was a good way to actually promote Black 2 and White 2. Certainly it would have been better than the sorry excuse they called the Junior Cup. I don't get it, I could think up of those kinds of things, as could I presume many others, so why didn't the writers capitalize on that golden opportunity?
Definitely. World tournament as competition on global scale gathering all kind of powerful trainers, type specialists and experts would have been of immense help in advancing Misty water master dream and ambition to become famous and innovative in her battle abilities like her rolemodel E4 Lorelei is.Testing her so far attained knpowledge, new skills and experience, seeing all kind of unorthodox and new battle strategies which she could incorporate in her training and strategy she would never encounter at gym, take advices from other renowned trainers in poke word and developing effective counter measures and combinations of atacks in mnimizing weakness of here water pokemon.
If it wasnt wasted on mess called Junior Cup followed with pointless Decolora adentiure which didnt took Ash and companions(Iris, Cilan) anywhere. Writers could had ceated whole mini joirney comprised of several tournaments repesenting world Cup. With Misty joining Ash on journey to train and enter for such events, deal with selfdoubts and questioning of where she belongs in trainer world trying to be noticed for her battle abilities making biggest step forward in life of becoming high class water trainer and master of said type.
This would had been one of most viable ways to do something in pushing Misty story, aspirations and dreams forward rather than being stuck in "catch 22" situation. Not dropping her goal clearly making sure that she wants to become something more than gym leader in chrionicles burning with competiutove fire of becoming water master. But at same time not having choice but to stay due to sisters laziness not having any substitute. Leaving her future and what will happen with storyline completely unresolved.
Much to fans disappointment not wanting that she ends up forgotten continuing to exist in series storyline.
Yeah, and besides, I'm not even sure what a connoisseur (which last I heard related to wine tasting or at least beverage/food tasting) does relating to Pokémon? At least with Brock's first goal of becoming a breeder, it did relate to Pokémon directly, even if not in the battling sense.
By official definition pokemon connoisseurs identify compatibility between trainers and their pokemon. Examining on relationship between them, amount of thrust and understanding and whetherr some pokemon in its attitude and habits is suitable to your battle style or not.
There exists four categories A, B, C and S class,. With C being lowest, while S highest class making someone expert with there existing special certified trests participants need to enter and pass in order to reach promotion. Face offs between conoisseurs and how skilled they are in use of words and description of pokemon virtues and teamwork between them and trainer showed to exist too. If few verbal duels between Cilan and Burgundy was something to go by.
However writers did barely anything with Cilan dream treating him largely as only provider of comedy and voice of maturity/wisdom in BW series.
I hope you're right. And I must ask since I never watched BW at all (though I have read the comments and Bulbapedia) and I want this cleared up, was there ever a situation Iris was in that was similar to how Misty and Jessie didn't act like those screaming, animalistic Fiorello Fangirls in the episode Princess vs. Princess (the ones who screamed, acted like animals, trampled over Ash, Brock, James, Pikachu, and Meowth, etc., etc.)?
From what i can remember Iris was fairly similar to Misty in that aspect. Not squealing like fangirl which has crush on popstar or being obsessed over her looks and choice of clothes. So i definitely wouldnt say she would fit within standards of bumbling airheads if thats what you were getting at.
Iris was hyperactive, but relatively hotheaded in her behavior. Being oriented toward nature and paranormal. Not hesitating to dirty herself or get into mud to help others out or pokemon. Being similar to Misty in sense of being more intereated in battles, pokemon, adventure and action.
Coming of as bolds and adamant in her beliefs.
However she wasnt against dressing up and wearing pretty clothes when occasion demands or just to present yourself in different light. Like Iris for example did when helping Lucas to make pokemon fim, being ddressed as princess for.
Although Misty had more of feminine spirit in herelf in liking nice dresses, clothes and cute outfits serving as counterbalance to her sarcastic , hotheaded and rough aspect of character. Making her more balanced in that aspect.
Good part of Iris wild type of attitude and relying on instincs originated from background. Growing as orphan in village dragon isolated from modern word due to being viewed as outcast when trying to fit in society norms when attending school judged by events in Opelucid city. Causing her to distance herself even more from humans and turn to nature and pokemon.
With her distrust and closed up behavior coming from bad experiences with other peers, while in Misty case more rough, defensive type of behavior was reflection of having toi grow up prematurely, lacking parental love and care accompanied with isolation and constant degrading from older sisters being in their shadow and mistreated.
So in reality Iris was closer to tomboy in behavior than anything else, even though she wasnt that really either.
Come to think of it, didn't Masamitsu Hidaka also end up removed and replaced immediately after Advanced Generation for similar reasons (I heard that Advanced Generation did very poorly in terms of ratings, and from what I could tell of the series overall, namely the bad gym battles that made most of the GLs seem extremely weak and pathetic, Brawley and Roxanne exempted, plus the poor League turnout [not as bad as BW, fortunately, but still] and the needless and pointless expansion of Pokémon Contests to a full-length goal just to have May replaced at the end of AG, and the Battle Frontier victory turning out to be extremely hollow)? I know WPM of Pokebeach mentioned he was the Storyboard Director for the Original Series up to either the end of Battle Frontier or the very beginning of Diamond and Pearl in his interview with him.
As far as i know, Masamitsu Hidaka was pokemon director until Battle Frontier. During that time he stepped out from that position working from than and onwards as Storyboard artist.
Either way, if they fired their own director immediately after Best Wishes ended, that should hint that even the writers realized it was a terrible saga. I don't think even Johto got that kind of a layoff, and from the way people like Cybercubed/Scott85/Gliscor'd was talking, Johto was the worst thing ever due to its "fillers."
People who say Johto was "dark age" of pokemon dont know their facts straight. At its worst Johto ratings varied between 7.5 and 16.7, in AG they were between 4.5 and 10.8, DP had between 4.1 and 8.3, BW was in range between 2.2 and 7.5.Etc.
Majority of Johto episodes werent fillers, far from it. But for some odd reason detractors counts only Ash gyms and league as legit, plot based episodes while discarding everything else as "meaningless".
Containing character development, diving deeper in backstory and fleshing out more Misty and Brock characxers learning valuable things from it. Bringing recurring characters such as photographer Todd or Koga sister Aya. Dealing with introduction of legendary pokemon like Articuno with whole mini arc being based around it etc etc.
Especially 5th season/Master Quest ;whole season not just end. Which little before start of Whirl islands adventure and onwards was heavily plot centric with many important events happening there.
With continuity, character development and storyline being treated better than Unova did honestly.
As someone who has been in fandom for very long time i can say Johto never received so much complaining, hate and criticism like Best Wishes/Unova series did.
Definitely. World tournament as competition on global scale gathering all kind of powerful trainers, type specialists and experts would have been of immense help in advancing Misty water master dream and ambition to become famous and innovative in her battle abilities like her rolemodel E4 Lorelei is.Testing her so far attained knpowledge, new skills and experience, seeing all kind of unorthodox and new battle strategies which she could incorporate in her training and strategy she would never encounter at gym, take advices from other renowned trainers in poke word and developing effective counter measures and combinations of atacks in mnimizing weakness of here water pokemon.
If it wasnt wasted on mess called Junior Cup followed with pointless Decolora adentiure which didnt took Ash and companions(Iris, Cilan) anywhere. Writers could had ceated whole mini joirney comprised of several tournaments repesenting world Cup. With Misty joining Ash on journey to train and enter for such events, deal with selfdoubts and questioning of where she belongs in trainer world trying to be noticed for her battle abilities making biggest step forward in life of becoming high class water trainer and master of said type.
This would had been one of most viable ways to do something in pushing Misty story, aspirations and dreams forward rather than being stuck in "catch 22" situation. Not dropping her goal clearly making sure that she wants to become something more than gym leader in chrionicles burning with competiutove fire of becoming water master. But at same time not having choice but to stay due to sisters laziness not having any substitute. Leaving her future and what will happen with storyline completely unresolved.
Much to fans disappointment not wanting that she ends up forgotten continuing to exist in series storyline.
Yeah, tell me about it. At the very least it would have given her closure. Yet they couldn't do that. And honestly, I was outraged with how Hoenn's Gym Leaders were depicted in AG. I know they aren't supposed to be as strong as the Elite 4, but couldn't they at LEAST make them difficult especially to Hoenn's team who came across as getting to many easy wins especially when they were rookies? Honestly, even the Kanto team didn't get that many lucky breaks and easy wins, and the Johto team didn't either, and the Sinnoh team certainly didn't either. They really should have used the World Conference, especially if it's going to be like something from the Orange League or the Battle Frontier. There was absolutely no excuse in skipping it. Not to mention, Misty wasn't the only one who suffered. Max also would suffer as a result since, let's face it, being the youngest member of Ash's group barring Bonnie, he can't legally become a Pokémon Trainer until he's 10, and thanks to the show's insistence at keeping Ash 10, even when otherwise strongly implying that time does indeed pass on, that means he'll NEVER become a trainer at all. And not only that, but unlike the other former main characters, he alongside May don't even get Hosos or Sunday Specials at all since their departure (and while I wouldn't particularly mind May not getting them, Max not getting them is just bad, especially when we've not got any indication he'll ever age thanks to the writers' stupidity in keeping Ash 10 for whatever reason).
By official definition pokemon connoisseurs identify compatibility between trainers and their pokemon. Examining on relationship between them, amount of thrust and understanding and whetherr some pokemon in its attitude and habits is suitable to your battle style or not.
There exists four categories A, B, C and S class,. With C being lowest, while S highest class making someone expert with there existing special certified trests participants need to enter and pass in order to reach promotion. Face offs between conoisseurs and how skilled they are in use of words and description of pokemon virtues and teamwork between them and trainer showed to exist too. If few verbal duels between Cilan and Burgundy was something to go by.
However writers did barely anything with Cilan dream treating him largely as only provider of comedy and voice of maturity/wisdom in BW series.
Well, seeing how I've never seen BW at all, unlike AG or DP where I at least caught an episode or two, I have to take your and the others word for it. And if what you said is true, Cilan's even worse than Brock. Even Brock at least managed to raise Togepi and Happiny from Eggs (and in the case of the latter, after hatching) as some progress towards his breeder goal, plus the breeder convention in Johto.
From what i can remember Iris was fairly similar to Misty in that aspect. Not squealing like fangirl which has crush on popstar or being obsessed over her looks and choice of clothes. So i definitely wouldnt say she would fit within standards of bumbling airheads if thats what you were getting at.
Iris was hyperactive, but relatively hotheaded in her behavior. Being oriented toward nature and paranormal. Not hesitating to dirty herself or get into mud to help others out or pokemon. Being similar to Misty in sense of being more intereated in battles, pokemon, adventure and action.
Coming of as bolds and adamant in her beliefs.
However she wasnt against dressing up and wearing pretty clothes when occasion demands or just to present yourself in different light. Like Iris for example did when helping Lucas to make pokemon fim, being ddressed as princess for.
Although Misty had more of feminine spirit in herelf in liking nice dresses, clothes and cute outfits serving as counterbalance to her sarcastic , hotheaded and rough aspect of character. Making her more balanced in that aspect.
Good part of Iris wild type of attitude and relying on instincs originated from background. Growing as orphan in village dragon isolated from modern word due to being viewed as outcast when trying to fit in society norms when attending school judged by events in Opelucid city. Causing her to distance herself even more from humans and turn to nature and pokemon.
With her distrust and closed up behavior coming from bad experiences with other peers, while in Misty case more rough, defensive type of behavior was reflection of having toi grow up prematurely, lacking parental love and care accompanied with isolation and constant degrading from older sisters being in their shadow and mistreated.
So in reality Iris was closer to tomboy in behavior than anything else, even though she wasnt that really either.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting at (well, that, as well as the kinds of girls you would expect from something like Love Hina or Krillin's girlfriend Maron from Dragon Ball Z, but that's effectively the same principle, even if the Fiorello Fangirls aren't sexualized or showing any skin.). And if Iris truly wasn't like the Fiorello Fangirls at all, I guess it's settled, then, she's not a Hina stereotype, and thus I actually can list her as a good thing about Best Wishes (bonus points for actually letting her pursue her goal as well). I mean, I can handle some girliness, but if they do it to such an extent that the female character comes across as being a huge bimbo, that I really cannot tolerate at all. And I also don't like the opposite extreme of girls being depicted as butch or huge man-haters to the extent of bashing us, especially considering a very bad experience in College with teachers of both genders who pushed that kind of ideal woman. So her being balanced in that regard would actually work. Maybe she's not to Misty's level, but at least she's close enough. Too bad Best Wishes didn't do Iris or Misty justice, even with the former actually being allowed to pursue her goals, unlike the latter. Well, either way, at least Iris is pursuing her goals, so no need to have her come back even if she is a viable substitute for Misty if done right.
As far as i know, Masamitsu Hidaka was pokemon director until Battle Frontier. During that time he stepped out from that position working from than and onwards as Storyboard artist.
Okay, so he's still involved (though I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not since, aside from his comments about the girls being eyecandy, if he were actually still on the show and yet he still didn't even know about Arceus or even Shaymin despite even Famitsu reporting on them at the time, that would indicate he knew even less about the ins and outs about the show and the games than one would believe, which would be even worse. At least if he were fired, his not knowing anything would be justified somewhat). WPM's description of him made it seem as though he actually stopped working with the anime altogether after Battle Frontier.
People who say Johto was "dark age" of pokemon dont know their facts straight. At its worst Johto ratings varied between 7.5 and 16.7, in AG they were between 4.5 and 10.8, DP had between 4.1 and 8.3, BW was in range between 2.2 and 7.5.Etc.
Majority of Johto episodes werent fillers, far from it. But for some odd reason detractors counts only Ash gyms and league as legit, plot based episodes while discarding everything else as "meaningless".
Containing character development, diving deeper in backstory and fleshing out more Misty and Brock characxers learning valuable things from it. Bringing recurring characters such as photographer Todd or Koga sister Aya. Dealing with introduction of legendary pokemon like Articuno with whole mini arc being based around it etc etc.
Especially 5th season/Master Quest ;whole season not just end. Which little before start of Whirl islands adventure and onwards was heavily plot centric with many important events happening there.
With continuity, character development and storyline being treated better than Unova did honestly.
As someone who has been in fandom for very long time i can say Johto never received so much complaining, hate and criticism like Best Wishes/Unova series did.
Yeah, have to agree with you there regarding Johto. Actually, I never once felt they were "filler", certainly not the majority of them (in fact, the only reason I quit at Johto was because of poor ads supplied by KidsWB rather than anything the show did). Shame that people think only Gym Battles, Leagues, and Captures/Evolutions are the only things that mattered.
If anything actually felt more like a filler show, it was AG. Sure, Ash made some captures and evolutions, but beyond that, what actually had AG stand out compared to before or after? Contests being introduced? May was removed at the end of AG and then replaced with Dawn in DP just to have her simply do what May would have done had May been allowed to go to Sinnoh (not to mention the expansion of contests from what was effectively a skippable sidequest in the games that didn't even lead to the main credits and at best only led to getting a Milotic to have it's full entry gained in the Pokedex.). The Hoenn League? Ash literally stayed at the same position he earned at Johto, neither advancing nor decreasing in rank. The Original Series and DP had Ash advancing in rank, and even BW, as horrible as it league and the show turned out to be, at least gave some sense that it happened by having Ash decrease in rank. Heck, even the Battle Frontier victory really didn't mean anything at all in the end thanks to Ash not only losing to Gary Oak and his Electivire, but after getting to Sinnoh, he lost to Paul, and this was despite Paul being clearly outclassed by Brandon just before the second battle (and while I understand Ash needed to lose so the rivalry could be settled at the league by having Ash win against him there, they really should have had Pikachu lose to Torterra due to being closest in experience level to him, not have him lose to Ursaring who was clearly a rookie by comparison [as Paul definitely captured it in Sinnoh, while Elekid at least can be argued to have been captured outside of Sinnoh], Guts ability or not.). Probably the only thing you might miss if you skipped AG entirely and went straight to DP after Johto is where Ash got Aipom. Even Phanpy evolving into Donphan can easily be dismissed as just evolving while at Oak's, especially when Showdown at Poke-Corral strongly implied that the Pokémon at Oak's Lab does go through an extensive exercise and training regimen.
And yeah, Johto did have better continuity than Unova did. Charizard returning and Ash raising that Caterpie is probably the closest we'll get to true continuity in Best Wishes, and even that was somewhat badly done (for starters, I'm not sure why Charizard would be Oaked. Even if he became strong enough to no longer need training at Charcific Valley, there's still the fact that he's strongly implied to be Charla's mate, and I'm not sure it's even explained what happened between them? And as far as Ash and Butterfree, there's the fact that he started bawling his eyes out from releasing that Butterfree. Beforehand with his own, it was understandable since that was his first Pokémon barring Pikachu, and thus of course he'd have an emotional attachment to him and thus be devastated at releasing him to mate with the Pink Butterfree. This Butterfree he barely even knew and thus had no real need to be attached to it other than a sense of deja vu.).
Yeah, tell me about it. At the very least it would have given her closure. Yet they couldn't do that. And honestly, I was outraged with how Hoenn's Gym Leaders were depicted in AG. I know they aren't supposed to be as strong as the Elite 4, but couldn't they at LEAST make them difficult especially to Hoenn's team who came across as getting to many easy wins especially when they were rookies? Honestly, even the Kanto team didn't get that many lucky breaks and easy wins, and the Johto team didn't either, and the Sinnoh team certainly didn't either. They really should have used the World Conference, especially if it's going to be like something from the Orange League or the Battle Frontier. There was absolutely no excuse in skipping it.
Granted to be perfectly objective this may have not been necessary closure, because Misty would still have unresolved dreams and subplots in story waiting to be further explored and taken to new exciting directions embalming her journey with more depth and content.
However this would had at very least show how her story hasnt been left on dry surface moving somewhere, how hard work, renunciation and determination brought some fruits on table and set up future and direction in which she would continue to advance forward.Coming closer toward fulfilling aims leading toward desired destination eventually.
In other words witnessing to writers continuning from where they stopped with their work.
Well, seeing how I've never seen BW at all, unlike AG or DP where I at least caught an episode or two, I have to take your and the others word for it. And if what you said is true, Cilan's even worse than Brock. Even Brock at least managed to raise Togepi and Happiny from Eggs (and in the case of the latter, after hatching) as some progress towards his breeder goal, plus the breeder convention in Johto.
Well there were episodes touching on whole Connoisseur thing. Explaning whle structure and how many ranks for connoisseurs there exist. How A and S class connoisseurs are allowed to open their own pokemon shop. Having Cilan meet other famous connoisseurs getting into skirmish with therm(like Ricard Noveau). Deciding to battle and decide who is right in recommending what kind of pokemon would be more appropriate for young girl.
There is whole Burgundy rivalry too.
However rivalry went nowehere and without closure, Cilan never attempted to take future tests and his career wasnt brought up much. With writers of pokemon in general focusing less on male companions dreams and storyline(aside from Ash of course). Serving mostly role of older pseudo brother figure looking after others and directing them through their wisdom and experience along with delivering entertainment value. Which can be sufficient initially, but after awjile it leads to stagnation if character personality, plots, fears and careers arent fleshed out and developed.
Which tended to be case with Cilan unfortunately with Brock overall still developing more. Regardless of his own dreams not being enough progressed either.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting at (well, that, as well as the kinds of girls you would expect from something like Love Hina or Krillin's girlfriend Maron from Dragon Ball Z, but that's effectively the same principle, even if the Fiorello Fangirls aren't sexualized or showing any skin.). And if Iris truly wasn't like the Fiorello Fangirls at all, I guess it's settled, then, she's not a Hina stereotype, and thus I actually can list her as a good thing about Best Wishes (bonus points for actually letting her pursue her goal as well). I mean, I can handle some girliness, but if they do it to such an extent that the female character comes across as being a huge bimbo, that I really cannot tolerate at all. And I also don't like the opposite extreme of girls being depicted as butch or huge man-haters to the extent of bashing us, especially considering a very bad experience in College with teachers of both genders who pushed that kind of ideal woman. So her being balanced in that regard would actually work. Maybe she's not to Misty's level, but at least she's close enough. Too bad Best Wishes didn't do Iris or Misty justice, even with the former actually being allowed to pursue her goals, unlike the latter. Well, either way, at least Iris is pursuing her goals, so no need to have her come back even if she is a viable substitute for Misty if done right.
Agreed. There should exist some middle ground when writing for fictional characters. Because extreme on nether side of spectrum is never good and positive thing. With characters who has wide pallete of colors in their personalities, some dimension to way they express emotions, thoughts, fears and affinities. Followed with balanced attitude coming of as more relatable, realistic and charming to follow.
With Iris reminding me in some ways of her character through her cynical, bold and spirted nature. Although she lacked that passion, flare and flirty trait in her in managing to evoke response, sarcasm and stubborn nature from Ash and other side like Misty did. Who in questioning someone ego, encouragement in trying his best, compassion, witty quips or sharing same competitive fire for battling(like Ash) involved balanced two way alley in which interactions, support and provocations between people flowed.
Something BW group lacked taking away abit from their synergy in my opinion.
However in regards to who should and shouldnt come back. Im of opinion how as long Ash is main star of pokemon with series being set in same timeline and universe. Its only appropriate and fair that every replaced main character continues to receive recognition of its existence, impact he/she left on Ash and pokemon storyline. Like Iris and many others for example.
Give fans insight in displaying how much they changed, establish meaningful bond with newer characters and push their stories forward) developing them more. Its always fresh and nice to see all time favorite return getting update going through new directions. Which would make fans become more loyal toward show respecting such gestures.
Because people have right to see them again not stopping to exist in pokemon timeline and universe with each replaced companion having unveiled things waiting to be told, open plots which didnt received ending and potential to deliver more both to their own growth and story as whole.
But of course some should have priority in coming back over others.
