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5th Gen Black is White...?

Exorc

pokemon.exorc.com
  • 12
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • Seen Apr 25, 2011
    Short version

    Once upon a time, when I was a wee lad, my brand new red marker, awesomely branded with the bold label "Surprise Attack", started coloring in green. I was piiiiiiiiissed OFF. The end.


    Long version

    After the recent release of CoroCoro, I'm a bit curious as to which of Black City and White Forest is exclusive to which version. Here's what I wrote on my Web site about the matter:

    I predict White Forest will be in Black Version and Black City will be in White Version, due to the games' concept reference to Yin and Yang; furthermore, this is likely because Reshiram (Black Versions mascot) is a white Pokémon who seems to represent nature, while Zekrom (White Version's mascot) is a black, Electric type Pokémon who carries the essence of industry and technology.
    At this rate, it seems that much of what will be exclusive to Black will be White and vice versa. Unless its forwardly explained in the games, children are not going to understand the representation of Yin and Yang ideology, nor find the art in its depiction, and thus would be turned off by the lack of correspondence within their game. It's like buying tub of chocolate ice cream, with a picture of chocolate ice cream on the front, but with a label that says vanilla. "But kids, it's Yang ice cream!" Good luck with that catching on.

    It won't be a big deal; kids will still buy the game, and they'll still love it. I just dislike the idea of Game Freak naming their games solely and in accordance to foreign ideology that many adults don't even know about. I don't see Game Freak being able to communicate through a game with an elementary-aged audience why black is white and white is black. Let's hope they can pull it off, else they'll be hearing from the critics.

    Discuss and speculate.
     
    Short version

    Once upon a time, when I was a wee lad, my brand new red marker, awesomely branded with the bold label "Surprise Attack", started coloring in green. I was piiiiiiiiissed OFF. The end.


    Long version

    After the recent release of CoroCoro, I'm a bit curious as to which of Black City and White Forest is exclusive to which version. Here's what I wrote on my Web site about the matter:

    At this rate, it seems that much of what will be exclusive to Black will be White and vice versa. Unless its forwardly explained in the games, children are not going to understand the representation of Yin and Yang ideology, nor find the art in its depiction, and thus would be turned off by the lack of correspondence within their game. It's like buying tub of chocolate ice cream, with a picture of chocolate ice cream on the front, but with a label that says vanilla. "But kids, it's Yang ice cream!" Good luck with that catching on.

    It won't be a big deal; kids will still buy the game, and they'll still love it. I just dislike the idea of Game Freak naming their games solely and in accordance to foreign ideology that many adults don't even know about. I don't see Game Freak being able to communicate through a game with an elementary-aged audience why black is white and white is black. Let's hope they can pull it off, else they'll be hearing from the critics.

    Discuss and speculate.
    Well actually Pokemon is made in Japan where they recognize the concept of Yin and yang so they don't care whether the rest of the world understands it or not. Also China know the concept too...and so does Korea...so just because the west doesn't know doesn't mean they have to make it different.
    Actually like I said, since it's made in japan the idea of Yin and Yang isn't foreign at all :)
     
    Well actually Pokemon is made in Japan where they recognize the concept of Yin and yang so they don't care whether the rest of the world understands it or not. Also China know the concept too...and so does Korea...so just because the west doesn't know doesn't mean they have to make it different.
    Actually like I said, since it's made in japan the idea of Yin and Yang isn't foreign at all :)

    You can just say practically all Asians know it :)

    And yeahs seriously, it's an asian game, they're not going to care whether you understand anything or not - As long as their own country do, and as long as they themselves do, no, they don't really care.
     
    You summarized what I said Rilence thanks :)
    I'm glad I understand the concept myself :P

    Heh.
    I'm quite certain if I'm the game designer myself I'd pick one that I've most knowledges of the storyline myself first too, and as for that, everyone can take the rest of their time to sort of figures out what the storyline and plot is about, with the internet access all over the world now, you can simply just research over Wikipedia, no? :P

    I actually finds the Yin and Yang concept interesting, plus I grew up a Taoism, so this is cool enough. :D
     
    Heh.
    I'm quite certain if I'm the game designer myself I'd pick one that I've most knowledges of the storyline myself first too, and as for that, everyone can take the rest of their time to sort of figures out what the storyline and plot is about, with the internet access all over the world now, you can simply just research over Wikipedia, no? :P

    I actually finds the Yin and Yang concept interesting, plus I grew up a Taoism, so this is cool enough. :D
    I feel in love with the concept :D
    Without yin their no Yang, actually this pattern is repeated though out the Hoenn and Sinnoh games :).
    Yeah American's are sometimes isolated from the world...just look at the anime episode with the "donuts" :P
     
    I feel in love with the concept :D
    Without yin their no Yang, actually this pattern is repeated though out the Hoenn and Sinnoh games :).
    Yeah American's are sometimes isolated from the world...just look at the anime episode with the "donuts" :P

    Wait, what Donuts?

    And personally I think bringing in different religion's practices into the game sounds cool and good, and since this is a more "matured" game now, I think it fits :) We can learn more about each individuals' practices and things like that.

    Don't stab me for all the religious talking. :P
     
    Wait, what Donuts?

    And personally I think bringing in different religion's practices into the game sounds cool and good, and since this is a more "matured" game now, I think it fits :) We can learn more about each individuals' practices and things like that.

    Don't stab me for all the religious talking. :P
    Well we had a church in BW, I think the world would be a better place if we only took the time to understand other peoples beliefs :)
    The donuts were actually rice balls but in the English dub they incorrectly called them donuts:tired:
     
    Well we had a church in BW, I think the world would be a better place if we only took the time to understand other peoples beliefs :)
    The donuts were actually rice balls but in the English dub they incorrectly called them donuts:tired:

    o___o;
    Donut and Riceballs looks totally different.

    & I hope we haven't went off topic yet :P
    Yups, I'd like to understand more about others' beliefs too!
    I actually read up all sorts of religions, but still we need a more deeper thought and read ups :)
     
    o___o;
    Donut and Riceballs looks totally different.

    & I hope we haven't went off topic yet :P
    Yups, I'd like to understand more about others' beliefs too!
    I actually read up all sorts of religions, but still we need a more deeper thought and read ups :)
    Yeah...that's why the dub was so stupid to do that...
     
    I could see that......... but only time will tell. XD (welp, I'mma Gettin BOTH.. White in Japanese, and then Black in English!)


    Yeah...that's why the dub was so stupid to do that...

    what about the doughnuts without the holes in them... the ones with a filling.... the ones with the white powdery stuff on them?

    as far as Animation is concerned, they look the same. XD
     
    I could see that......... but only time will tell. XD (welp, I'mma Gettin BOTH.. White in Japanese, and then Black in English!)




    what about the doughnuts without the holes in them... the ones with a filling.... the ones with the white powdery stuff on them?

    as far as Animation is concerned, they look the same. XD
    Well you can see brook making them in some steamer thing...
     
    If thy just made everything black in White version and vice versa, there would be no contrast at all, since the version name has no relation to the actual story.

    If they really wanted to do something like that, they'd just put Reshiram in Black Fortress and vice versa. But there's more to Yin Yang then that.
     
    I appologise, I was under the impression Yin Yang was solely Chinese and Taoism. Regardless, a vast majority of Pokémon's audience is non-Asian children, who have little to no comprehension of Yin Yang whatsoever. To them, it would look like a mistake on the packaging. It can't be good business sense to favor a known minority when the audience is much bigger. I love the idea of Yin and Yang Pokémon, I just feel it distorts the version system to title each version opposite from its content.
     
    I appologise, I was under the impression Yin Yang was solely Chinese and Taoism. Regardless, a vast majority of Pokémon's audience is non-Asian children, who have little to no comprehension of Yin Yang whatsoever. To them, it would look like a mistake on the packaging. It can't be good business sense to favor a known minority when the audience is much bigger. I love the idea of Yin and Yang Pokémon, I just feel it distorts the version system to title each version opposite from its content.

    I'm pretty sure that most of those 'non-Asian children' are gonna be too distracted by the colorful bug-eyed creatures than wonder why White Forest is in Black and Black City is in White.
     
    what about the doughnuts without the holes in them... the ones with a filling.... the ones with the white powdery stuff on them?
    Rice balls can have fillings in them.

    I had a large post for this, and lost it. So the new post is hopefully shorter.

    I just dislike the idea of Game Freak naming their games solely and in accordance to foreign ideology
    It's not foreign to them.

    There are always things in Pokemon games that younger players may not understand. EVs/IVs are perfect examples. For storyline purposes, how many younger children could actually follow Cyrus's explanations about emotions and space and time? The younger children are most likely going to be furiously pressing the A button to get through the talking faster so they can catch their feathered dragon with a jet engine for a tail.

    They're not going to be bothered by it.
     
    I appologise, I was under the impression Yin Yang was solely Chinese and Taoism. Regardless, a vast majority of Pokémon's audience is non-Asian children, who have little to no comprehension of Yin Yang whatsoever. To them, it would look like a mistake on the packaging. It can't be good business sense to favor a known minority when the audience is much bigger. I love the idea of Yin and Yang Pokémon, I just feel it distorts the version system to title each version opposite from its content.

    I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Nintendo and Game Freak, the creator and producer of Pokemon are based in Japan and therefore their target audience are Japanese children, and Western audiences are merely lucky enough to get translations of the game and anime. Besides, children like bigger and more epic things. Look how big Avatar: The Last Airbender was/is. Whether they understand the big picture or not I'm sure they'll understand the significance and enjoy it, and if not, then it'll just go over their heads and they'll play on blissfully ignorant. Heck, I didn't even start reading what the characters had to say until I was like, twelve. Besides, they probably won't mention Yin/Yang too much throughout the Western games. It'll probably just be "Without Good, there is no evil, so is there really such a thing as either one?" things like this. Besides, from what I've seen I think GF is raising the age of their target audience anyway, what with the older characters and all.
     
    Wait, are you saying that Pokemon is supposed to be profound?

    I can understand that sometimes Pokemon can be deep in it's own ways, but play it for the enjoyment of playing it, don't play it solely for what it "communicates". Did you honestly think a 10-year old would understand the whole space/time thing of D/P/P? Or that there's some sort of hidden dimension in-between?

    Either you get the storyline/reference or you don't. Chances are, most kids that are 10 and under probably won't get this "ying/yang" theory, regardless of whether it was explained to them or not, so...it's a pretty useless thing to complain about, in my opinion.

    I'm not complaining, Dear, just offering an opinion. As I said, I actually like seeing the loose Yin Yang cartoon fantasy depiction, I just don't think the games should be named in accordance with it if it means confusing the audience.

    And you misunderstood me completely. No the games should not be profound; I never said the games' should explain Yin Yang theory--that obviously won't happen, and they will probably present a story where an explanation of complexity won't be needed, just as they did in D/P/Pt. What the games need to be able to explain is why their titles don't match their contents, which they cannot easily do because Pokémon is not profound enough to explain Yin Yang. Thus, the majority audience will likely see it as unattractive, which is not the kind of image an artistically vast game would aim to project. It's not going to drive its fanbase away, though the younger and less knowledgeable of the fanbase will no doubt WTF at the lack of label-to-content correspondence.

    Let's switch over to those not of the fanbase. Imagine you knew nothing about the Yin Yang theory. What would you think seeing a white mascot labeled "Black" and its vice versa next to it? I would WTF. You would too. The confusion caused is bad advertising.

    As you can see in the above two paragraphs, both fans and potential buyers are WTFing. I doubt the executives over at Nintendo want most of their audience to WTF at their silver franchise. It was a poor decision in my opinion. Will sales continue to skyrocket? Of course! Though I don't think there will be nearly as many newcomers to the Pokémon world this generation, which could have been different. Bad business sense if you ask me.

    I'm pretty sure that most of those 'non-Asian children' are gonna be too distracted by the colorful bug-eyed creatures than wonder why White Forest is in Black and Black City is in White.

    I was a child once; you're attention span may have lacked the ability to multitask at an (not so) early age but my developed mind was fully capable of questioning that which did not seem to aesthetically belong.

    I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Nintendo and Game Freak, the creator and producer of Pokemon are based in Japan and therefore their target audience are Japanese children, and Western audiences are merely lucky enough to get translations of the game and anime. Besides, children like bigger and more epic things. Look how big Avatar: The Last Airbender was/is. Whether they understand the big picture or not I'm sure they'll understand the significance and enjoy it, and if not, then it'll just go over their heads and they'll play on blissfully ignorant. Heck, I didn't even start reading what the characters had to say until I was like, twelve. Besides, they probably won't mention Yin/Yang too much throughout the Western games. It'll probably just be "Without Good, there is no evil, so is there really such a thing as either one?" things like this. Besides, from what I've seen I think GF is raising the age of their target audience anyway, what with the older characters and all.

    Western audiences are a goldmine to Game Freak; the West actually holds the majority of games sold, with the USA itself selling near equal to Japan. Why wouldn't they be part of the target audience? Game Freak gets a percentage of the profits; there's no way they don't consider the West part of their target audience. Again: business sense.

    If Western audiences are only lucky to get translations, the Game Freak is only lucky to be getting as much money from us as they are.

    Plus, they're basing Isshu on the New York area, where Pokémon merchandise sells with madness. I doubt it's mere coincidence.

    As for the rest of your argument, you are arguing against a point I never made. Refer to my response to Twilight Sky in this post, as you seem to have come to the same misunderstanding as she. I am not against the implementation of Yin Yang in the games, I am against the game titles.

    Astinus said:
    It's not foreign to them.

    There are always things in Pokemon games that younger players may not understand. EVs/IVs are perfect examples. For storyline purposes, how many younger children could actually follow Cyrus's explanations about emotions and space and time? The younger children are most likely going to be furiously pressing the A button to get through the talking faster so they can catch their feathered dragon with a jet engine for a tail.

    They're not going to be bothered by it.

    I never said they would be, I just think the game names were an unintelligent idea on GF's part. I'm tired of repeating this, so just refer to my above responses.
     
    Last edited:
    You can just say practically all Asians know it :)

    And yeahs seriously, it's an asian game, they're not going to care whether you understand anything or not - As long as their own country do, and as long as they themselves do, no, they don't really care.

    Hmm, I agree, but you shouldn't forget that Asia is a large continent. What is commonly referred to as 'Asians' are just East Asians (and sometimes SE Asians) and b/c of this other Asians consistently get grouped in w/ people from this area of Asia.

    Yin/Yang has no revelance to Asians living in the South (India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh) , central region (Krygystan, uzbekistan, Georgia, etc.), North (Russia, Mongolia..possibly) or western region of the continent (the middle east). Not trying to signal anyone out, but I just hate it when Asians get grouped together like this (sort of like Africans..but that's another story). :D

    That was off-topic....I just hope black city is in black version. Though I doubt it will be. I wonder of these areas will be where you have your 'showdown' w/ Reshiram and Zekrom.
     
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