Brock

Galmar

Banned
    • 71
    Posts
    10
    Years
    I still can't believe that they axed Brock. He was easily the best character on the show, and I stopped watching the newer anime episodes after the first few BW episodes because it was clrear the show would never be good again.

    Do you agree that Brock was the best character on the show and shouldn't have been axed? Discuss.
     
    Brock got pretty stale by the end of AG. With the amount of focus that's given to Ash, CotDs, and the new features and Pokémon from the current generation of the time, it's hard to give anyone else proper development. By the time AG had ended, it was apparent that Brock had nothing more to do than cook food and help nurse Ash's and whoever else's Pokémon.

    Instead of just writing him off at the end of AG, they kept him around during DP and made him into even more of a background character than he was before by giving a lot more development to Ash, Dawn, and their rivals. There were occasional scenes that revolved around Brock, which ultimately led to him wanting to become a doctor rather than a breeder, and that's a goal that he cannot achieve by journeying with Ash and friends.

    Brock wasn't the best character in my opinion, but the reason why he left makes perfect sense and I enjoy seeing different characters like Tracey, Clemont, and Cilan be in the spotlight.
     
    Honestly, the only thing I ask for should they EVER bring him back are two things:

    1. Cut out the whole womanizing gag from his character.

    2. Actually HAVE Brock demonstrate breeding on the show in the most important point (you know, having two Pokémon mate. At this point, the only main character to actually do that is ironically Tracey, and that was off-screen).

    Honestly, if they aren't going to do any of those things, then all I can say is "Good Riddance." His womanizing gag was annoying since day one, and quite frankly, shouldn't even be exposed to kids due to how extremely inappropriate such a gag is. It's exactly the same sort of thing that Glenn Quagmire from Family Guy or Charlie Harper from Two and a Half Men or Barney from How I Met Your Mother behaves overall, and none of those shows are even meant to be watched by children. What's worse is that, Ear-pulling/poison chop aside, there isn't any attempt to treat his womanizing as a negative, and in fact, it's implied to be a positive due to Ho-Oh appearing before him in AG (Ho-Oh only appears before pure-hearted trainers, remember? Even Dragonball made clear that the kind of behavior Brock exhibited is NOT pure-hearted behavior.). I could tolerate his behavior in Kanto since at least he exhibited other, more benign traits during that time.

    And honestly, other than the Breeder conventions in Johto, the Stantler bit, and also some attempts at helping out Pokémon, there really wasn't much he actually did as a breeder, and the closest he's ever gotten to actually breeding Pokémon was when he raised Togepi and Happiny as eggs, and with the latter, actually raised Happiny after birth (remember, Togepi imprinted on Misty).

    I'm also a bit irritated with him due to his frankly being irresponsible with Pewter Gym during AG, especially when he had to bail it out of two messes that were so bad that even the Cerulean Sisters' attempts at running Cerulean Gym by comparison actually made THEM look like skilled and responsible Gym Leaders (and considering they just handed out badges and left for a three month cruise, thus forcing Misty to put her journey on hold, that's saying a lot. Heck, at least the Cerulean Sisters had an excuse for their apathy [as they DID end up losing three times in a row, and Gary rubbed their losses in their face], while Lola flat out didn't even care about running the gym from the start.). First time, Lola returned, Flint basically surrendered to her will, she basically made trashy redecorations to the Gym, enough to actually violate the coolness rule for Pewter Gym had there been a PIA inspection. Then she foolishly turned the rock Pokémon training holes into a swimming pool, nearly drowning several Rock Pokémon in the process, which violated the safety rule for Pewter Gym, meaning had there been a PIA inspection, it would have ensured a total shutdown of the Gym even IF Lola was present. Brock beat her, yet he didn't take up the mantle. Still, at least he managed to have Forrest act as the Gym Leader over either of them. The second time, however, despite Lola promising beforehand to never redecorate the gym again, she via shady painters not only broke her promise, but the decorations were even worse (they actually looked like graffiti struck the Gym), and then Lola accepted candy from strangers essentially by those painters, who it turns out planned to effectively pull what was a Home-Alone-style robbery. What's worse, Forrest, who is supposed to be the Gym Leader, didn't even attempt to stop his mom during this instance despite his having authority over the Gym. Heck, he doesn't even attempt to challenge the challengers at all. Brock and Ash have to effectively act as Gym Leaders (again, in Brock's case) just to meet the requirements. And the second time? He doesn't even attempt to regain control of the gym, despite it obviously not being able to function under anyone else. I'm frankly surprised that the PIA didn't shut it down earlier due to the disaster Lola's reign obviously was. What's worse, even though the first time Brock resumed his journey under the pretense of helping Ash in AG, the second time with DP, he didn't even have that, he instead just decided to become a trucker obviously due to a female that caught his eye, and rejoined Ash by accident (he was intended to continue being on the road, only for his trucker companion to reveal she was actually already dating and drive off without him). This actually is even worse considering Misty can't even leave the Gym largely due to both the PIA as well as her sister's irresponsible behavior, and they both left for Gym-related duties at the same time. If anyone should have been kept at the Gym permanently, it should have been Brock.
     
    To me Brock was great character and one of most iconic and distinct protagonists of pokemon series. I liked his wisdom, maturity, lot of knowledge he brimmed with. All enveloped with assertive and adamant side of his making sure that Ash and co dont run foolishly in danger , scolding those who wanted to use pokemon for selfish purposes like Damian with abandoned Charmander or Paul with Chimchar, or when someone would get in his way of getting girl. His agitated and boiling side was especially well depicted in relationship with his crazy family serving as nice contrast to usually cool and collected attitude. Being ashamed and irritated when his mother turned Pewter pride in circus(referring to gym of course).

    Brock also showed lot of compasion side, care and thoughtful side of his. Best displayed in care of lot of pokemon he encountered on joureys applying his knowledge as breeder such as sick Bagon, poisoned Sharpedo not wanting to leave him spending night on beach, defending Solrock who got accused of drought happening in vilage ruining all crops. Taking care of sick Pachirisu from Dawn teaching her basics of medical aid, when Nuzleaf got injured and many others.

    He was like older brother to Ash developing strong, full of understanding and interchangeable encouragement friendship existing between them often offering help to be like sparing partner when training Growyle, Torkoal, his Chimchar helping about blaze issues etc. Involving to risk his life on several ocasions to find specific berry helping to heal his pokemon (this was especially evidenced with Monferno when losing harshly to Paul).

    He also had very good relationship with main girls. Not as much with Dawn but with Misty Brock established close almost like brother-sister relationship often joking, talking about Asd loses and reckless side and how to prevent him from making fool of himelf or giving comfort. Talking about romance, their own dreams, sharting experiences they had as gym leader and sometime getting in clash with interactions being playful and full of energy. With May interacting was pretty good too, maybe not as nuanced like with Misty but Brock quite often accompanied May on shopping streaks, May showing interest in his cooking and food along with Brock giving her tips and encouragement for her contest battles(such as recommending assist to be used from Skitty).,

    Brock didnt got much progression on his breeder career but on good part this was hindered by passivity of his own ambition being type of career focused more on taking care of pokemon and grooming them, rather than battling, training, entering tournaments etc providing issue in finding ways to moire actively demonstrate progression.

    Second part of reason came from inherent imitations concept of breeding had on its own, with there existing restriction on how far writers can go with exploring idea of pokemon reproduction in kids TV show like pokemon.

    However regardless of this i personally liked Brock, his antics, kinky interesting personality, huge amount of knowledge and balanced, reassuring atmosphere his character brought to main cast. Having several remarkable times where he truly shined as character in OS, AG , even ever so loathed Sinnoh , helped move show and characters forward being important backbone on which others could rely keeping things on hold and preventing from everything falling apart giving shoulder to cry, confine yourself and help to get back on feet again. Which had its merits in my opinion.

    I wouldn't be against Brock coming back either, because every traveling companion who was in main cast and important part of pokemon history, Ash life helping to build its plot and popularity deserves to remain acknowledged and relevant.

    With no one deserving to stay buried forgotten and erased from face of existence depriving fans of update, how far someone came in progressing toward achievement of dreams, what kind of new fresh flavor to their personality new experiences, struggles and encounter with new people of screen has left on them changing because of that and witnessing if strong close friendship with Ash was able to maintain itself despite long separatioin. Giving fans of Brock or anyone for that matter treat, follow up and chance to enjoy i their favorite characer going in undiscovered, exciting adventures playing importance in future again.

    Afterall Brock is traveling to gain new knowledge, discover new species and meeting doctors who could teach him important lessons as part of stufying before passing tests. Unova special featuring Cilan proved that when Brock was on foot meeting connoisseur in same region.

    So as traveling doctor in training nothing is stopping Brock from meeting up with Ash and even joning on new adenture.

    However if im going to be perfectly honest whle i liked Brock i was much more displeased personally when Misty got replaced. Because she was one of best, most iconic characters this series had being deprived of that humor, clash, sarcasm, energy and identity her strong personality brought to it. Leaving lot of potential untapped , completely open story and so mny missed opportunities to do more refined growth with her regarding inner struggles, uncleared feelings for others and water master career striving to become strong as E4 members not even knowing from where such determination and desire came from.

    Feeling how in case of coming back Misty would bring more unpredictabilty, diversified characterization, novelty and content to story than Brock could.

    p.s. I also feel moral obligation to note how whether Brock became stale or not is purely matter of opinion and how you personally felt about character. Because if you didnt grew sick of Brock still being entertained by his behavior, interests, pokemon, goal and influence he left on other characters and plot. That absolutely fine, just like its fine if you grew tired of him not being able tp find anything positive or good about Brock presence in pokemon series anymore.

    There is really no universal fact or opinion for this. Hence why term "stale", "boring", "useless" etc are completely subjective varying from person to person.

    Its one day earlier, but i want to wish everyone Merry Christmas and happy holidays. All the best everyone. :)
     
    DBZ fan said:
    To me Brock was great character and one of most iconic and distinct protagonists of pokemon series. I liked his wisdom, maturity, lot of knowledge he brimmed with. All enveloped with assertive and adamant side of his making sure that Ash and co dont run foolishly in danger , scolding those who wanted to use pokemon for selfish purposes like Damian with abandoned Charmander or Paul with Chimchar, or when someone would get in his way of getting girl. His agitated and boiling side was especially well depicted in relationship with his crazy family serving as nice contrast to usually cool and collected attitude. Being ashamed and irritated when his mother turned Pewter pride in circus(referring to gym of course).

    Brock also showed lot of compasion side, care and thoughtful side of his. Best displayed in care of lot of pokemon he encountered on joureys applying his knowledge as breeder such as sick Bagon, poisoned Sharpedo not wanting to leave him spending night on beach, defending Solrock who got accused of drought happening in vilage ruining all crops. Taking care of sick Pachirisu from Dawn teaching her basics of medical aid, when Nuzleaf got injured and many others.

    He was like older brother to Ash developing strong, full of understanding and interchangeable encouragement friendship existing between them often offering help to be like sparing partner when training Growyle, Torkoal, his Chimchar helping about blaze issues etc. Involving to risk his life on several ocasions to find specific berry helping to heal his pokemon (this was especially evidenced with Monferno when losing harshly to Paul).

    He also had very good relationship with main girls. Not as much with Dawn but with Misty Brock established close almost like brother-sister relationship often joking, talking about Asd loses and reckless side and how to prevent him from making fool of himelf or giving comfort. Talking about romance, their own dreams, sharting experiences they had as gym leader and sometime getting in clash with interactions being playful and full of energy. With May interacting was pretty good too, maybe not as nuanced like with Misty but Brock quite often accompanied May on shopping streaks, May showing interest in his cooking and food along with Brock giving her tips and encouragement for her contest battles(such as recommending assist to be used from Skitty).,

    Brock didnt got much progression on his breeder career but on good part this was hindered by passivity of his own ambition being type of career focused more on taking care of pokemon and grooming them, rather than battling, training, entering tournaments etc providing issue in finding ways to moire actively demonstrate progression.

    Second part of reason came from inherent imitations concept of breeding had on its own, with there existing restriction on how far writers can go with exploring idea of pokemon reproduction in kids TV show like pokemon.

    However regardless of this i personally liked Brock, his antics, kinky interesting personality, huge amount of knowledge and balanced, reassuring atmosphere his character brought to main cast. Having several remarkable times where he truly shined as character in OS, AG , even ever so loathed Sinnoh , helped move show and characters forward being important backbone on which others could rely keeping things on hold and preventing from everything falling apart giving shoulder to cry, confine yourself and help to get back on feet again. Which had its merits in my opinion.

    I wouldn't be against Brock coming back either, because every traveling companion who was in main cast and important part of pokemon history, Ash life helping to build its plot and popularity deserves to remain acknowledged and relevant.

    With no one deserving to stay buried forgotten and erased from face of existence depriving fans of update, how far someone came in progressing toward achievement of dreams, what kind of new fresh flavor to their personality new experiences, struggles and encounter with new people of screen has left on them changing because of that and witnessing if strong close friendship with Ash was able to maintain itself despite long separatioin. Giving fans of Brock or anyone for that matter treat, follow up and chance to enjoy i their favorite characer going in undiscovered, exciting adventures playing importance in future again.

    Afterall Brock is traveling to gain new knowledge, discover new species and meeting doctors who could teach him important lessons as part of stufying before passing tests. Unova special featuring Cilan proved that when Brock was on foot meeting connoisseur in same region.

    So as traveling doctor in training nothing is stopping Brock from meeting up with Ash and even joning on new adenture.

    However if im going to be perfectly honest whle i liked Brock i was much more displeased personally when Misty got replaced. Because she was one of best, most iconic characters this series had being deprived of that humor, clash, sarcasm, energy and identity her strong personality brought to it. Leaving lot of potential untapped , completely open story and so mny missed opportunities to do more refined growth with her regarding inner struggles, uncleared feelings for others and water master career striving to become strong as E4 members not even knowing from where such determination and desire came from.

    Feeling how in case of coming back Misty would bring more unpredictabilty, diversified characterization, novelty and content to story than Brock could.

    p.s. I also feel moral obligation to note how whether Brock became stale or not is purely matter of opinion and how you personally felt about character. Because if you didnt grew sick of Brock still being entertained by his behavior, interests, pokemon, goal and influence he left on other characters and plot. That absolutely fine, just like its fine if you grew tired of him not being able tp find anything positive or good about Brock presence in pokemon series anymore.

    There is really no universal fact or opinion for this. Hence why term "stale", "boring", "useless" etc are completely subjective varying from person to person.

    Its one day earlier, but i want to wish everyone Merry Christmas and happy holidays. All the best everyone. :)
    Click to expand...

    You do have very good points regarding Brock. At this point, I only really have one condition for his return: Have him drop the womanizing act. Like I said earlier, it's a very inappropriate gag to use especially given the target audience (you'd expect this behavior from Glenn Quagmire or Charlie Harper or even the Barnacle, which all came from grown up shows, NOT an anime that was supposed to be a kids show even in Japan). That gag really ruined Brock. Besides, it's thanks to that and similar characterizations of heterosexual males on media that we are given such a bad name, to such an extent that if any of us ever express disgust towards objectification of girls or anything like that we're accused of being gay even if we've never crushed on the same sex even once. Aside from this being the crux of how General Blue in Dragon Ball was deduced as being gay (literally considered that only because he doesn't fall for Bulma's advances, when it's unlikely every single guy would fall for her, and in fact even Yamcha was initially afraid of her. It wasn't due to him hitting on Krillin or Goku, and in fact he doesn't do that at all, trying to kill them. I think the closest he's ever gotten to actually hitting on a guy was Obotchaman, maybe Trunks/Future Trunks in the video games), I myself was a victim of such accusations because I was disgusted with what porn and the hina stereotype depicted women as.

    I do still think Brock should have taken over the gym, though, especially after the events of the second time he had to bail it out and Forrest had clearly failed his duties as a Gym Leader. It needs him far more than Cerulean Gym needs Misty. At least the Cerulean Sisters don't vandalize the gym, nearly endanger the Pokémon recklessly, and any of that.
     
    Brock was run dry by the end of AG, and at the end of DP he was virtually useless. If they stopped him after AG, I would've been fine, but DP ruined him. He was nothing more than the cook and a running gag.
     
    To Garchomp:
    I noticed significant portion of pokemon fandom clinging on thought of Brock being "demolished character" in Sinnoh, but i have different perception on this. He didnt seemed to me like empty shell which turned just in random collection of running gags.

    Im not denying how he was shafted not being given much development and chance to shine, far from it. But personality wise he seemed pretty similar to me like he was in AG, OS generation still acting calm,wise, considerate and irrational not just with girls, but various unexpected situationd he was placed in when it comes to pokemon he met, Ash rivals like Paul or moments of urgency acting like older brother and care taker warning his companions of dangers like enraged Magnezone, protecring Shieldon, helping by using Happiny in small WAilmer reuniting with herd of Wailord freeing it from sewer etc..

    He had his moments in Sinnoh getting his first egg allowing to see his knowledge as breeder used to full potential, took care of various pokemon practicing skills(like injured pokemon from Tentacruel attack,Pachirisu,Nuzleef etc).He also had some memorable moments with Dawn and Ash when he was actually allowed to(like teaching Dawn to prepare medicine, taking care of sick Pachirisu, drowing her in his prformance of "Takeshi Parasdise" in Psyduck episode etc). along with having pretty good chemistry with Holly coming top 4n in tournament ,that girl from Miltank maid caffe which had problems with Miltank, Autumn, nurse Joy in episode where Happiny evolved, teaming up with Ash in tag battle with Sudowoodo against Dawn and Leona, etc.

    Brock also entered various contests,like tag battle tournament,played role in Team Galactic arc,entered pokemon transformation contest,Croagunk festival,summer school triathlon etc.
    Feeling he had character, emotions and still unique defining personality traits which defined character.

    I say it wasn't so much problem in Brock in DP, but more in being often left out not being given enough focus to shine and display his real qualities in that regio with writers doing very bad repartition of screen time paying too much asttention to Dawn, Brock while leaving everyne else in dust at times. Which didnt affected just Brock, but rivals such as Kenny, Nando or Barry for example as well.

    If anything Broc special in pleading for his young brother Forest that inspector Joy gives him chance to become gym leader or amazing moments he had in encounter in BW special featuring Cilan participating in constructing plan to catch pokemon poacher and heal Gyarados showcased how Brock still has that charm in himself.

    At least thats how i felt, being great character when used right.
     
    DBZ fan said:
    I say it wasn't so much problem in Brock in DP, but more in being often left out not being given enough focus to shine and display his real qualities in that regio with writers doing very bad repartition of screen time paying too much asttention to Dawn, Brock while leaving everyne else in dust at times. Which didnt affected just Brock, but rivals such as Kenny, Nando or Barry for example as well.
    Click to expand...

    I very much agree with this. It's not that Brock was a bad character in DP (he was the same character he's always been), it's that he wasn't given a whole lot to do in the scope of that series. If not for the occasional episodes that helped transition him from breeder to doctor, then I would have preferred him to leave at the end of AG and a new character taking his place during DP (such as Roarke). But since they decided to have him leave the show, I think it was good to put less focus on him during his last series since it wasn't as upsetting to see him leave.
     
    Wobbu said:
    I very much agree with this. It's not that Brock was a bad character in DP (he was the same character he's always been), it's that he wasn't given a whole lot to do in the scope of that series. If not for the occasional episodes that helped transition him from breeder to doctor, then I would have preferred him to leave at the end of AG and a new character taking his place during DP (such as Roarke). But since they decided to have him leave the show, I think it was good to put less focus on him during his last series since it wasn't as upsetting to see him leave.
    Click to expand...

    Yeah, and besides, at least they actually foreshadowed his leaving at one point anyways (the Pachirisu sick day episode, though I still think it was really cheap how they handled the episode because, to be honest, Ash had to experience his Pikachu having similar symptoms and realized he had a cold twice), which is more than a certain prior character (ie, Misty).
     
    I agree, Brock was cool, but everyone comes and goes. Brock kinda had a life cycle of flirt, get dumped, and cry. It may not be near annoying, but if you think about it, he's the good version of Team Rocket (The trio that goes after Ash, anyways).
     
    Spoiler:

    Tbh, any character can be a great character when used right, and Brock definitely wasn't used right in DP. With all the focus they put on Dawn, Ash probably could've just traveled alone with Dawn.

    Honestly, loved Brock, but he was probably going to have to go at some point anyway, like Misty and all other companions.
     
    You must log in or register to reply here.
    Back
    Top