D/P Gengar Set

[Richard Lynch]

I've been reading up on Gengar in hopes of him replacing my Alakazam, who is really lackluster on my team (only good thing he's done is 2KO Swampert and Rhyperior, with a bit of luck), and Gengar seems like a good filler and a better Swampert counter, with his ability to Levitate. But I'm having trouble coming up with a decent Nature/Moveset combo. In the 3rd Gen., people generally went with the SubPuncher set (Lonely nature, usually), but I don't know how that would hold up in this generation, especially with these new moves.

I was thinking something like:

Gengar @ Leftovers
Timid OR Modest
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Giga Drain/Energy Ball
- Focus Blast/Shadow Ball
- Toxic/Substitute

Thunderbolt is a given, and I MUST have a grass move on him, as it's the only real counter to Swampert I have. Shadow Ball gets a good STAB, although Ghost isn't the best attacking move, but Focus Blast can take care of a predicted Dark switch in (despite the low accuracy). Last is between Toxic and Substitute... Toxic can annoy any team without berry/aromatherapy support, while Substitute can really only be taken advantage of in the case of Focus Punch. But with the MAJOR difference in Attack and Sp.Attack, I'd think Focus Blast would be a good alternative.

What do you guys say?

 

[Paranoia]

I've been reading up on Gengar in hopes of him replacing my Alakazam, who is really lackluster on my team (only good thing he's done is 2KO Swampert and Rhyperior, with a bit of luck), and Gengar seems like a good filler and a better Swampert counter, with his ability to Levitate. But I'm having trouble coming up with a decent Nature/Moveset combo. In the 3rd Gen., people generally went with the SubPuncher set (Lonely nature, usually), but I don't know how that would hold up in this generation, especially with these new moves.

I was thinking something like:

Gengar @ Leftovers
Timid OR Modest
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Giga Drain/Energy Ball
- Focus Blast/Shadow Ball
- Toxic/Substitute

Thunderbolt is a given, and I MUST have a grass move on him, as it's the only real counter to Swampert I have. Shadow Ball gets a good STAB, although Ghost isn't the best attacking move, but Focus Blast can take care of a predicted Dark switch in (despite the low accuracy). Last is between Toxic and Substitute... Toxic can annoy any team without berry/aromatherapy support, while Substitute can really only be taken advantage of in the case of Focus Punch. But with the MAJOR difference in Attack and Sp.Attack, I'd think Focus Blast would be a good alternative.

What do you guys say?

Well, as a regular user of Gengar, Toxic, imo = fail, it's pointless to try status with a great sweeper, best option if you don't want a full out sweeper, is hypnosis, they fall asleep, and either switch or stay, then you predict what they switch in.

This would be a set I would use:

Gengar @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 6 HP
Moveset:
- Thunderbolt - Is a must, otherwise gengar can't counter waters.
- Giga Drain/Energy Ball/Psychic - Giga drain sucks imo, and I tried energy ball, agasint a TTar, I had no choice specs, it took off about 40% and a 3OK isn't worth it.
- Focus Blast/Shadow Ball - You need a STAB and shadow ball is reasonable powerful
- Toxic/Substitute/HP Ice - Both fail, with the EV set you'll get a sub of 231HP / 4 = 57 HP subs, not worth it imo, Hypnosis works well on this guy, OR I would go for HP ice, which I did, it was worth it, as most dragons don't expect it.

With a Timid nature, he outruns alot of fast pokes, here is a list that he outruns:

Infernape - He can't counter well
Garchomp - HP ice owns him
Zapdos -
Salamence - See Garchompy
Staraptor - Thunderbolt

Which is pretty decent.

I have been trying psychic on him, although idk for sure if it works well, but it seems to be hurting some fighting pokemon, hehe.

 

[Samson]

ah gengar... such a killer that i have to force myself to include a gengar counter in every one of my teams. thing i hate (and love) about gengar is that he actually can take a physical, supereffective attack before fainting while alakazam would probably croak even from a STAB'd Brick Break. here are two popular movesets i've encountered:

Gengar @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf/Life Orb
Timid for Specs and Life Orb, Modest for Scarf
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Energy Ball
-Sludge Bomb/Psychic/Focus Blast

full special sweeper.

Gengar @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Timid
-Shadowball
-Thunderbolt
-Energy Ball/Focus Blast
-Will-O-Wisp/Hypnosis

Will-o-wisp for cutting attack, hypnosis for speedy sleep inflict. in my opinion, hypnosis gengar @ life orb is much more dangerous in any battle. you switch it in where it obviously will destroy the foe, and use hypnosis for whatever they switch into, and fire away!

you could also go with a surprise physical Gengar set. ice and fire punch will always be legendary makings of Gengar.

 

[Richard Lynch]

ah gengar... such a killer that i have to force myself to include a gengar counter in every one of my teams. thing i hate (and love) about gengar is that he actually can take a physical, supereffective attack before fainting while alakazam would probably croak even from a STAB'd Brick Break. here are two popular movesets i've encountered:

Gengar @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf/Life Orb
Timid for Specs and Life Orb, Modest for Scarf
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Energy Ball
-Sludge Bomb/Psychic/Focus Blast

full special sweeper.

Gengar @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Timid
-Shadowball
-Thunderbolt
-Energy Ball/Focus Blast
-Will-O-Wisp/Hypnosis

Will-o-wisp for cutting attack, hypnosis for speedy sleep inflict. in my opinion, hypnosis gengar @ life orb is much more dangerous in any battle. you switch it in where it obviously will destroy the foe, and use hypnosis for whatever they switch into, and fire away!

you could also go with a surprise physical Gengar set. ice and fire punch will always be legendary makings of Gengar.

Eh, I dislike using special items like that, so I would go with Leftovers (something Alakazam can't pull off well). I only brought up Toxic because it's one of my favourite moves, and I have it on my Claydol... but after having trouble with Garchomp, I've decided to give him Ice Beam over Toxic. But a physical Gengar always seemed more like a novelty to me... who takes a Poke with 65 base Attack and 130 base Special Attack... and makes him a physical hitter? Doesn't make sense to me. But I guess it could work. EDIT: Oh, and my Metagross is my physical sweeper, so I would in no doubt be looking for a special sweeper in Gengar

Without Psychic on Gengar I would have a fighting weakness, although pure fighting Pokes are generally rare. I do, however, NEED Giga Drain or Energy Ball. Giga Drain has less power, but could aid in recovery. Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp... I already have a Hypnosis Poke, but one more never hurt. Will-O-Wisp couldn't hurt, but I like Hypnosis better. The lack of a Psychic move really bugs me, though...

Damn, I really wish Gengar could learn Ice Beam.

Oh, and Paranoia, Hidden Power anything is quite difficult to get right. I normally bag all options for HP, and leave that to the NetBattlers.

How does this sound:

Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Hypnosis

Fighting types normally have low special defense, so I assume Hypnosis and STABed Shadow Ball would be enough, so that ends my Psychic troubles. Energy Ball... Paranoia, the only Poke I consider when thinking about this move is a Swampert. Seriously, without a great grass move on a special sweeper, unless I can make flawless choices, Swampert could easily sweep my entire team. He's perhaps my biggest weakness.

And speaking of Energy Ball... would anyone happen to have an extra TM they'd be willing to trade? XD

 

[Paranoia]

Eh, I dislike using special items like that, so I would go with Leftovers (something Alakazam can't pull off well). I only brought up Toxic because it's one of my favourite moves, and I have it on my Claydol... but after having trouble with Garchomp, I've decided to give him Ice Beam over Toxic. But a physical Gengar always seemed more like a novelty to me... who takes a Poke with 65 base Attack and 130 base Special Attack... and makes him a physical hitter? Doesn't make sense to me. But I guess it could work. EDIT: Oh, and my Metagross is my physical sweeper, so I would in no doubt be looking for a special sweeper in Gengar

Without Psychic on Gengar I would have a fighting weakness, although pure fighting Pokes are generally rare. I do, however, NEED Giga Drain or Energy Ball. Giga Drain has less power, but could aid in recovery. Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp... I already have a Hypnosis Poke, but one more never hurt. Will-O-Wisp couldn't hurt, but I like Hypnosis better. The lack of a Psychic move really bugs me, though...

Damn, I really wish Gengar could learn Ice Beam.

Oh, and Paranoia, Hidden Power anything is quite difficult to get right. I normally bag all options for HP, and leave that to the NetBattlers.

How does this sound:

Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Hypnosis

Fighting types normally have low special defense, so I assume Hypnosis and STABed Shadow Ball would be enough, so that ends my Psychic troubles. Energy Ball... Paranoia, the only Poke I consider when thinking about this move is a Swampert. Seriously, without a great grass move on a special sweeper, unless I can make flawless choices, Swampert could easily sweep my entire team. He's perhaps my biggest weakness.

And speaking of Energy Ball... would anyone happen to have an extra TM they'd be willing to trade? XD

Yeah HP Ice is really really hard to get, I need perfect IVs in all cept for speed which needs 30, and I got it, so I was EXTREMELY happy when I got it, I have about 6 boxes full of gastly.

I was thinking about that, I'm gonna go ahead and calculate how much damage a full sp atk gengar would do against a standard swampy, I'll post the result later.

Damage = ((((2 * 100 / 5 + 2) * 363 * 80 / 185) / 50) + 2) * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= ((((42) * 363 * 80 / 185) / 50) +2) * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= (((6592) / 50) +2) * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= ((131) + 2) * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= 133 * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= 532 * 85 / 100
= 45220 / 100
= 452.2 Damage
= ~ 452 Damage

That is with Swapert's Sp. Def being minimal possible so no EVs, No IVs and no boost of nature or minus nature. So gengar can OHKO him.
Also, could you check that to make sure I got the math right, I am pretty sure I did, but it will need checking...

I have an extra TM, I will trade it to you XD! (I PMed you, and it's free)

 

[Richard Lynch]

Yeah HP Ice is really really hard to get, I need perfect IVs in all cept for speed which needs 30, and I got it, so I was EXTREMELY happy when I got it, I have about 6 boxes full of gastly.

I was thinking about that, I'm gonna go ahead and calculate how much damage a full sp atk gengar would do against a standard swampy, I'll post the result later.

Damage = ((((2 * 100 / 5 + 2) * 363 * 80 / 185) / 50) + 2) * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= ((((42) * 363 * 80 / 185) / 50) +2) * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= (((6592) / 50) +2) * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= ((131) + 2) * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= 133 * 1 * 4 * 85 / 100
= 532 * 85 / 100
= 45220 / 100
= 452.2 Damage
= ~ 452 Damage

That is with Swapert's Sp. Def being minimal possible so no EVs, No IVs and no boost of nature or minus nature. So gengar can OHKO him.
Also, could you check that to make sure I got the math right, I am pretty sure I did, but it will need checking...

I have an extra TM, I will trade it to you XD! (I PMed you, and it's free)

Hmmm... I don't think so, actually. And I don't even need the math to tell ya why! My old Alakazam had 31 IV in Special Attack, and maxed out EVs. That's an effing boat load of Special Attack power. He used Energy Ball against Samson's Swampert, and that did a little more than 50% damage (unless my memory has completely gone astray here!), and besides IVs, last I recall, Special Defense was never high priority for a Swampert; Defense is usually a main point for Nature (Relaxed) and EVs. Anyways... Gengar's Special Attack is 5 below Zam's (base stat-wise), so I doubt he could OHKO him. Best he can hope for is a 2KO, but that still ain't bad. Works much better now that he can avoid Swamp's Earthquake - a move that would have OHKOed Zam.

Oh, and thanks a bunch for the TM!

 

[Paranoia]

Hmmm... I don't think so, actually. And I don't even need the math to tell ya why! My old Alakazam had 31 IV in Special Attack, and maxed out EVs. That's an effing boat load of Special Attack power. He used Energy Ball against Samson's Swampert, and that did a little more than 50% damage (unless my memory has completely gone astray here!), and besides IVs, last I recall, Special Defense was never high priority for a Swampert; Defense is usually a main point for Nature (Relaxed) and EVs. Anyways... Gengar's Special Attack is 5 below Zam's (base stat-wise), so I doubt he could OHKO him. Best he can hope for is a 2KO, but that still ain't bad. Works much better now that he can avoid Swamp's Earthquake - a move that would have OHKOed Zam.

Oh, and thanks a bunch for the TM!

Well, that was because I made minimal Sp. Def possible, If I made it max, it would probably come out to about 40% - 50% damage, so yeah otherwise the battle calculation doesn't count in D/P as that is the R/S/E battle calculation formula

 

[Samson]

yeah my Swampert is Sassy nature and has about 180 sp def EVs XD... and remember, my Claydol put up Light Screen? i was planning to take out your Alakazam with Light Screen support, but the first Energy Ball that hit Swampert lowered its Sp Def =/

but yeah, that moveset for Gengar works fine. aside from being immune to EQ, he's also immune from fighting attacks. focus blast is made such a waste of =(

and also, you'd be surprised at how much Sp Def fighting types have. Hitmo-trio all have high sp def, so does machamp... Heracross has like 85 base sp def... so does Gallade... Medicham has decent defenses... i'm sure there are others. not to try to throw you off course, but i don't want you thinking that Gengar is going to take care of fighting types quite that easily. heck, i use my Hitmonchan specifically for taking Gengar out. he actually outlasts a Psychic, which is usually followed by a Ice Punch right in the pooper.