[Discussion] C++ Pokemon Client/Server useful?

[shortymant]

Need idea(s) for Pokemon Development

Edited ~
Alright. Since an open-source client/engine would be too advanced here, give me an idea for RPG Maker. Like development tools, or whatever. (Nothing to do with cracks/reverse engineering for RPG Maker or any program/dynamic link library's)

I will code it in C++, and release the source code if requested.
An example would be, an editor for the external scripts to Pokemon Starter Kit.

 

[Mrchewy]

I'm sure it would be useful, but whether it would be worth the development time is another matter entirely. If what you've outlined could be made in the near future, then I'd say definitely.

Calling RPG Maker a "point and click" engine is perhaps overstating things a little; its eventing system fits this description I guess, but calling it useless is just silly. The Starter Kit just proves that RMXP can be in reality quite a versatile 2D engine. Given that RMXP is, to my knowledge, the only platform that has housed a complete, recreated Pokémon has been emulated on, I would really reconsider calling it "useless".

 

[Alexandre]

Would be considerably useful for me since I'm the developer for Pokemon Essentials : Online. I'm in the process of rewriting the Netplay ruby server which uses MySQL as a database for use with the project and the PHP website would be extremely useful as my knowledge of PHP is next to nothing.

 

[shortymant]

I'm sure it would be useful, but whether it would be worth the development time is another matter entirely. If what you've outlined could be made in the near future, then I'd say definitely.

Calling RPG Maker a "point and click" engine is perhaps overstating things a little; its eventing system fits this description I guess, but calling it useless is just silly. The Starter Kit just proves that RMXP can be in reality quite a versatile 2D engine. Given that RMXP is, to my knowledge, the only platform that has housed a complete, recreated Pokémon has been emulated on, I would really reconsider calling it "useless".

It's just my opinion. I haven't used RPG Maker much, maybe once or twice. Usually, them game engines are limited to only so much, even with a scripting system. Like GameMaker or RPG Toolkit, they are horrible and I wouldn't use them even to make a fan-made game.

Would be considerably useful for me since I'm the developer for Pokemon Essentials : Online. I'm in the process of rewriting the Netplay ruby server which uses MySQL as a database for use with the project and the PHP website would be extremely useful as my knowledge of PHP is next to nothing.

It depends on if the original author will allow release, but I see no reason why he wouldn't let me. It was publicized already, but it needs extensive work to prevent any SQL injections, and to convert it from MsSQL to MySQL and changing a lot more.

I'm still trying to understand MySQL, I'm so used to MsSQL. :P
I believe I'm probably going to for the Gold/Silver era, mainly because I love them ones.

 

[Neo-Dragon]

You are aware pretty much every game engine uses some from of point and click in the UI right?
Unity, Unreal, Source, and CryEngine to name a few.
It's a key thing developers look for when building or buying an engine, the ability to do some complex things with a simple interface.

 

[shortymant]

You are aware pretty much every game engine uses some from of point and click in the UI right?
Unity, Unreal, Source, and CryEngine to name a few.
It's a key thing developers look for when building or buying an engine, the ability to do some complex things with a simple interface.

I was just using point-and-click as an example for one.
Them engines are exceptional, because they were built for advanced game development. The RPG Maker, Game Maker, RPG Toolkit, etc. are for beginners, they have a raw limit that's bad in my opinion.

My original point (from now I noticed I didn't make myself clear :P) is that closed-source engines aren't good, especially point-and-click engines, unless your willing to cough up a grand or more. But, open-source engines, especially ones designed for one type of game, is far better than any other engine.

 

[Spira]

Could be useful to a few people. Not many will really go through the trouble unless it's as simple as RMXP. The nice thing about closed source is usually it gives you some flexibility, but not enough for the user to completely mess up the base engine. It's geared for the beginners but could be expanded further by advanced scripters. Yours would be more towards the advance coding crowd, and they (myself included) would rather use their own engines. You'd probably be better off taking it yourself and developing it further for a game of your own.

 

[shortymant]

Could be useful to a few people. Not many will really go through the trouble unless it's as simple as RMXP.

That's what I figured at first. I don't know how many people would find this of use, because a lot of users here rely on RPG Maker.

The nice thing about closed source is usually it gives you some flexibility, but not enough for the user to completely mess up the base engine. It's geared for the beginners but could be expanded further by advanced scripters.

True. But, when developing games you need more than the closed-source engine puts out.

Yours would be more towards the advance coding crowd, and they (myself included) would rather use their own engines. You'd probably be better off taking it yourself and developing it further for a game of your own.

Haha, honestly didn't even think of that. Maybe that wouldn't be to bad of an idea, could help on learning about managing a server.

Well, what about just releasing an open-source engine directed towards Pokemon?
Graphics Engine -> Sound Engine -> Networking Engine -> Scripting Engine
I was planning on making the engines functions as simple as possible, such as how DarkGDK's library work. But then, that just runs into what you stated previously: "Not many will really go through the trouble unless it's as simple as RMXP."

My first idea was going to be creating an actual click-and-point engine (I be a hypocrite haha), that was for Pokemon, but stopped due to I can't find enough documentation on how an compiler could be implemented into it.

I'd like to give something useful to this community, but from what it seems, I release something that's "advanced" (lol) and almost no one uses it.
Well, I'll sleep on it and see if I can think of anything that can be of use to RPG Maker.

 

[Spira]

Yes a basic engine would be fine. I had a friend developing one in C++ using XNA and it's fairly functional: map editor, map system, networking, sound, graphics, even voice chat. He did stop developing it to work on a different game, but the engine is open source. Something like that would be good useful to many people, even if they aren't developing a Pokemon game.

 

[KingCharizard]

Ok maybe I'm completely off but wgat exactly are u asking for? I seyou're wondering if Client/Server relations are worth it they are, but why are u asking these questions what are u wishing to create that doesn't already exist?

 

[shortymant]

Yes a basic engine would be fine. I had a friend developing one in C++ using XNA and it's fairly functional: map editor, map system, networking, sound, graphics, even voice chat. He did stop developing it to work on a different game, but the engine is open source. Something like that would be good useful to many people, even if they aren't developing a Pokemon game.

XNA isn't compatible with C++. I believe you're thinking of C#.

Ok maybe I'm completely off but wgat exactly are u asking for? I seyou're wondering if Client/Server relations are worth it they are, but why are u asking these questions what are u wishing to create that doesn't already exist?

I'm asking for input if an open source engine is useful here.

Currently, I am finishing the bible, and starting on planning out every detail of the engines tonight.
Whether or not this will be used, I will develop this and release on decent updates.
I'll edit the main post with more detail about this engine later tonight.

 

[Mrchewy]

Shorty, let me reiterate: the reason RMXP and the SK is so popular is that it provides a surprising amount of flexibility, yet at the same time is still simple to use. What I'm thinking is that given we're talking about Pokemon fan games here, I think usability would be the decider as to whether or not a new engine would be useful or popular.

I mean, look at the two main platforms of fan-game development right now: ROM hacking and RMXP. Both are popular mainly because they are incredibly easy to learn. ROM hacking in particular is extremely limited, and yet proves to be a massive fan-game development platform (I'm talking games beyond Pokemon, too). I think this kind of proves that ultimately people don't want a plethora of advanced features; what they do want, is an easy-to-learn, largely graphical interface that is still flexible enough to cater to their creative needs.

If you think you could create something better than the Starter Kit, then I say go for it. However, you need to keep in mind that your target audience in general has very little advanced knowledge when it comes to game development - in other words, most of the serious game developers have moved beyond making Pokemon fan-games.

 

[shortymant]

If you think you could create something better than the Starter Kit, then I say go for it.

Mm, no. That's actually not my intentions at all.
Since I've been programming, all I've done was hack. Hack games, ROMs, build emulators, and I've forgotten 'bout what I wanted to do at first and that was make games. I was always a fan of Pokemon games, and since I can remember I wanted to make my own "world" of Pokemon. I remember playing them games, they seemed pretty "simple". So why not spend the extra time to make an Pokemon engine, where as others could use it?

But, when I was hacking games I forgot the most important thing I told to myself; and that was "never keep anything to yourself, always share your knowledge and help others".
Now, I figured if I'm going to make something will it be useful at all to anyone here? Could others benefit from this engine? Or will this just fall in the trash?

I do actually plan on making this into a GUI, having a compiler for it, and whatever I/others feel should be implemented into it. Just not anytime soon. As I said above, I wanted to make games. Well, I can't work in groups/teams and I especially can't draw and make music/sounds. So, why not make the next best thing to games? And that is game engines.

However, you need to keep in mind that your target audience in general has very little advanced knowledge when it comes to game development - in other words, most of the serious game developers have moved beyond making Pokemon fan-games.

Then why not give them a chance to learn? I do plan on making this as simple as possible, easy-to-learn scripting syntax, an fun, easy demo already pre-made where it's broken down into such small parts with detail on what_does_what and what_does_where.

~Sorry, I love to ramble on some days. :P

Edit -
Read the first post.

 

[davidthefat]

Edited ~
Alright. Since an open-source client/engine would be too advanced here, give me an idea for RPG Maker. Like development tools, or whatever. (Nothing to do with cracks/reverse engineering for RPG Maker or any program/dynamic link library's)

I will code it in C++, and release the source code if requested.
An example would be, an editor for the external scripts to Pokemon Starter Kit.

I like you enthusiasm, I say go for it with the C++ C/S, it will help you in life, I was going to help, but I have other plans, like building a fully autonomous robot, which I think will take a year to complete... Are you making an engine? I suggest you DON'T just make the MMO game straight up. Its just a waste to make an engine, unless you are some game developing company that actually publishes games and want to save as much money as you can. Do not give up

 

[shortymant]

I like you enthusiasm, I say go for it with the C++ C/S, it will help you in life, I was going to help, but I have other plans, like building a fully autonomous robot, which I think will take a year to complete...

Well yeah it would help in certain ways. But, how would it help a lot of people here?
Building robots is a tedious task but well worth it in the future.
Good luck with your project. :)

Are you making an engine? I suggest you DON'T just make the MMO game straight up. Its just a waste to make an engine, unless you are some game developing company that actually publishes games and want to save as much money as you can. Do not give up

Of course, when making a game it's wise to make an engine first. If you want to make a second version of the game, all you have to do is make the changes to the engine instead of running around the entire project messing it up even more. :P

If I do make this engine, or even a client/server exactly who would use it?
I'm not going to spend months to develop something that won't be used.
Take this as an example. On the other game I used to develop for, I released an
way to make custom commands. Almost no one used it cause it was in Assembly.
Took only 10 minutes, but people at that forum begged for it for months.
And no, I don't work for any game company. I don't even work for money haha.

So my choices are pretty simple. Stop this engine and make developer tools, or spend
a lot of time learning about implementing a compiler.
Since I know I'm not at the level for the second option, looks like the only choice I have the first one.

 

[davidthefat]

Well yeah it would help in certain ways. But, how would it help a lot of people here?
Building robots is a tedious task but well worth it in the future.
Good luck with your project. :)



Of course, when making a game it's wise to make an engine first. If you want to make a second version of the game, all you have to do is make the changes to the engine instead of running around the entire project messing it up even more. :P

If I do make this engine, or even a client/server exactly who would use it?
I'm not going to spend months to develop something that won't be used.
Take this as an example. On the other game I used to develop for, I released an
way to make custom commands. Almost no one used it cause it was in Assembly.
Took only 10 minutes, but people at that forum begged for it for months.
And no, I don't work for any game company. I don't even work for money haha.

So my choices are pretty simple. Stop this engine and make developer tools, or spend
a lot of time learning about implementing a compiler.
Since I know I'm not at the level for the second option, looks like the only choice I have the first one.

https://scientificninja.com/blog/write-games-not-engines

If you are even programming in an Object Oriented language, you should not have to make the engine, your code should be portable enough so you can use it over and over again. I am not sure if you quite understand what a game engine is. Its a package of tools that can be used to make a game, like a map editor, physics, characters/3d models, game scripts. So basically RPG Maker is a just generic game engine

 

[shortymant]

If you are even programming in an Object Oriented language, you should not have to make the engine, your code should be portable enough so you can use it over and over again. I am not sure if you quite understand what a game engine is. Its a package of tools that can be used to make a game, like a map editor, physics, characters/3d models, game scripts. So basically RPG Maker is a just generic game engine

Err, no. A game engine doesn't specifically need a map editor/modeler/etc.
A game engine can also be a set of defined functions directed towards making games, that can be expanded into making an actual video game. Previously I said I'd add tools (Map editor/Tile editor/etc.), an custom scripting engine and more.

But that mechanical analogy starts to break down when you take it this far, because when you look at the reality of the situation, a game engine is about reusable components.

Game Engines don't technically have to be an Graphical User Interface. They can be broken down into:
->Graphics Core
->Sound Core
->Input Core
->Networking Core
->Scripting Core
etc.
Now you can call that an engine. But if you only have one or two cores, then that's just a library in lay man terms.

 

[davidthefat]

Err, no. A game engine doesn't specifically need a map editor/modeler/etc.
A game engine can also be a set of defined functions directed towards making games, that can be expanded into making an actual video game. Previously I said I'd add tools (Map editor/Tile editor/etc.), an custom scripting engine and more.



Game Engines don't technically have to be an Graphical User Interface. They can be broken down into:
->Graphics Core
->Sound Core
->Input Core
->Networking Core
->Scripting Core
etc.
Now you can call that an engine. But if you only have one or two cores, then that's just a library in lay man terms.

I would just call that regular code, you should always be programming so that its reusable, that means good commenting too.