Does having sexuality groups promote segregation?

[Hybrid Trainer]

I was talking with Razor Leaf and thought this would be an interesting topic of discussion.
With society attempting to make sexuality irrelevant is it counterproductive for the gay community to group itself in areas such as gay clubs and gay societies? Is it possible for non-homophobic straight people to feel separated from the gay community because of this?

 

[Sydian]

There are still all female groups and all black groups, and I imagine groups for other such things. I don't see a problem with it. imo, it's a place people can be around other people that have something in common. And this really goes for all groups, like something as simple as an art club. I don't feel like it is scaring people away from that group, it's just a way people can come together and know there are others like them that might have certain struggles (in regards to sexuality groups and likely ethnic groups) so yeah. I don't think it's hurting. If someone is feeling left out, then that's their own problem.

 

[Star-Lord]

As it stands currently, I don't think it's counterproductive at all. I can understand the idea, but as right now those areas are pretty much needed for people to feel comfortable and safe. I imagine it must be a difficult to show yourself for who you are if you're in an area where you don't know if everybody will accept it or not. Like with the bars, would you feel comfortable hitting on a man who might not take kindly to your advances? I wouldn't, because I wouldn't want to bother someone like that. Or even worse, what if he started a fight over it? It's just as a matter of protection, and being comfortable right now, I think. Hopefully we can achieve a society where groups like that don't need to separate themselves to be completely safe.

Also I'm pretty sure straight allies are accepted in spots like that, and generally won't be left out or discriminated against. At least everything I've seen has tried to include them. It's not like the drag shows I've seen say "no straight people" at the door :P

 

[droomph]

So are you saying having a Pokémon Forum makes us weaker?

Yeah, groups are there for a reason - they're a safe haven for you to discuss with people what you want to talk about, and it's a place where people can gather their wits and face the real world with a stronger attitude.

So if anything, it's helping the cause. Though there's always the moderation issue, but that goes for anything, good or bad.

 

[Oryx]

I feel that there is a danger, but it's the same danger you get from any other type of group. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a group in my school who are completely insular, based on something such as they're all the same race, so they joined a club about that race and don't have any friends outside that group. It wasn't their intention to self-segregate, it just happened that maybe they're shy so they don't want to make friends outside of a group based on their sexuality/race, or maybe they happened to click with a few people in the club and then they became inseparable. I know my freshman year at school I clicked with a group of 5 or so students, ranging from freshmen to senior, that I had joined a club with. We hung out pretty much every day and became super close, and I didn't bother to find any more friends because there wasn't a need to.

The point I was making with that story is that this is the same danger you encounter just from joining any club based on your interests or identity. While some people may take all of their friends from that group, others will surely invite in outsiders.

 

[Esper]

I don't think society is trying to make sexuality (i.e., sexual orientation) irrelevant.

Groups are fine because you're not stuck to just one group. In my group of friends there is a gay guy and every now and then he goes and meets up with a bunch of other gay guys, but that doesn't harm our group dynamics. If anything it just gives us more to talk about and lets those of us who don't hang out with a bunch of gay guys learn something new.

The danger is in people trying to push you into a group and keep you there. "You can't do this. You're a _____. You should be doing this or that." No one today is going to tell you things like this so bluntly, but we all have experienced someone telling us we had to do something we weren't doing or stop doing something we were doing because of the "group" we "belonged" to. And maybe there's some self-stereotyping going on, but if we just let ourselves be fluid there is 0% chance of harm from having a gay community, or any community.

 

[LonsoKitty]

Society and their views are so confusing, that's all I have to say!

 

[Mana1]

I think it depends on the individuals rather than the fault of groups/clubs specifically. I know a lot of gay people where their life revolves around the 'gay scene' to the point where they go to gay hairdressers, gay bookshops, ridiculous stuff like that. I would say that is counterproductive.

However, the clubs and places themselves are sanctuaries and are important to support people and help them find others like themselves. Some people just take this to an extreme and retreat from the outside world.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

It depends on the group I beleive and how they view others. If they insulate themselves and only hang out with their group and only care for their groups interests and don't care about anyone but themselves than I think that's bad. But if they are simply looking out for the good of the group and to give it a voice that it might lack other wise than I think it's not bad.

 

[Renegade1]

I was talking with Razor Leaf and thought this would be an interesting topic of discussion.
With society attempting to make sexuality irrelevant is it counterproductive for the gay community to group itself in areas such as gay clubs and gay societies? Is it possible for non-homophobic straight people to feel separated from the gay community because of this?

Woah, now that's deep. I'm a straight non-homophobic unintelligent guy.. I say... Let it be what is it. If people wanna hang in gay bars, let them. If they don't then don't force them. Let people do and act how they please regardless of what we *should* be doing.
I don't feel seperated. Some of my dearest friends are gay, I feel more close and in touch with them then some of my straight friends.

 

[Dakotah]

I was talking with Razor Leaf and thought this would be an interesting topic of discussion.
With society attempting to make sexuality irrelevant is it counterproductive for the gay community to group itself in areas such as gay clubs and gay societies? Is it possible for non-homophobic straight people to feel separated from the gay community because of this?

No, and the reason is this:

Gay clubs do not exist to segregate us from the rest of society but instead seek to discover ways we can better educate those who do not understand us. These groups exists so that we don't end up becoming segregated from the rest of society. Take Gay Straight alliances in schools for example. The very name itself describes the purpose of the groups. It's by no means a way to isolate themselves, but rather a way to make the rest of the school better understand us and the issues that affect us.

Our straight brothers and sisters are essential to helping others become less fearful of us. As more and more people come out of the closet, people are beginning to understand the challenges that the gay community faces. By the gay community, I'm not just referring to gays and lesbians, but also bisexuals, transexuals, those questioning their sexuality, and our straight allies.

The more people we can bring into our cause (which is to be treated as equals) the less people will fear us and hate us. Because they'll now understand us (or begin to).

The only ones who'll be isolated from the rest of us are those who are unwilling or unable to let go of their prejudices. And it doesn't matter what minority group it is, there will always be some who simply refuse to try to get along with others. So we don't even try to include them, because they can only help to hinder our goals. Groups like the FRC (Family Research Council) and the Westboro Baptist Church will never change. They are considered hate groups, like the KKK, whose sole existence is to make homosexuality illegal once again in the country.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Gay clubs do not exist to segregate us from the rest of society but instead seek to discover ways we can better educate those who do not understand us. These groups exists so that we don't end up becoming segregated from the rest of society. Take Gay Straight alliances in schools for example. The very name itself describes the purpose of the groups. It's by no means a way to isolate themselves, but rather a way to make the rest of the school better understand us and the issues that affect us.

Hi fellow Ontarian.

I'm for the gay-straight alliances. The idea came out of an anti-bullying initiative though. And in that context, the idea of it seems odd to me. Like having a glasses/good vision alliance. Having distinct subgroups instead of a general "anti-bullying" club focuses on the victim and their perceived problem, which seems rather accusatory and exclusive to me.

When you take out the bullying aspect, then it becomes more like a cultural club for the purposes of education and acceptance. Which I think is the actual intention.

 

[Dakotah]

Hi fellow Ontarian.

I'm for the gay-straight alliances. The idea came out of an anti-bullying initiative though. And in that context, the idea of it seems odd to me. Like having a glasses/good vision alliance. Having distinct subgroups instead of a general "anti-bullying" club focuses on the victim and their perceived problem, which seems rather accusatory and exclusive to me.

When you take out the bullying aspect, then it becomes more like a cultural club for the purposes of education and acceptance. Which I think is the actual intention.

If you cannot name the problem, you cannot hope to solve the problem. Just like drinking and driving, you cannot solve the problem if you refuse to talk about the drinking aspect of the problem and instead focus on bad driving in general. Doing so fails to get to the heart of a particular problem, which makes finding a solution difficult, if not impossible.

Anti-gay bullying is the most pervasive type of bullying in our schools today. No other characteristic is focused on more by bullies than whether someone is perceived to be gay. The subject of a bully's torment doesn't even have to be gay to be a victim of bullying. It could be the person's choice of glasses, or the style of their clothes, or how they walk, or how they talk, or how they cut their hair, or any number of characteristics that leads to them being labelled as "gay."

You say having distinct subgroups instead of a general "anti-bullying" club focuses on the victim, and you're right, it does, as a means of support. But it also directly focuses on the bullies as well, since you cannot reach a solution by only discussing one side of the issue. You may think focusing on anti-gay bullying is exclusionary, but it is in fact inclusive in nature because it seeks to bring both sides together in an attempt to promote awareness and understanding.

The presence of gay/straight alliances have helped to decrease anti-gay bullying dramatically in those schools that have them. And this is a very good thing I think.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

The presence of gay/straight alliances have helped to decrease anti-gay bullying dramatically in those schools that have them. And this is a very good thing I think..

I do too. I just see it more as an educational, acceptance-gaining type of thing. And less about anti-bullying. But if you can kill two birds with one stone, all the better

Anti-gay bullying is the most pervasive type of bullying in our schools today. No other characteristic is focused on more by bullies than whether someone is perceived to be gay. The subject of a bully's torment doesn't even have to be gay to be a victim of bullying. It could be the person's choice of glasses, or the style of their clothes, or how they walk, or how they talk, or how they cut their hair, or any number of characteristics that leads to them being labelled as "gay."

See, in that way... I don't see it as being anti-gay persay. Or, well, it is clearly as "gay" is being used in a derogatory fashion. The term is being used as an insult, and it shouldn't be. Neanderthals use it as such. But "gay" is the term of use now. They mean it to be "weird". Different. When I was in elementary school, bullies would accuse people of being Jewish on all the same reasons you just listed. Equally stupid. Should there have been a "Jewish/Non-Jewish alliance"? "Nerd/Non-Nerd"? You could argue that I guess. But I think it's focusing on the wrong side of the equation. If the club from an anti-bullying perspective isn't even actually for gay people being bullied but people being perceived gay and bullied, then the club looks like "Okay, so, you're acting this way that's making you perceived as a gay. That's your problem". That looks very blame the victim. Gay, straight, fat, skinny, white, black, how you look, how you speak, whatever the reason and whatever labelled you're given - you are not the problem.

With society attempting to make sexuality irrelevant is it counterproductive for the gay community to group itself in areas such as gay clubs and gay societies? Is it possible for non-homophobic straight people to feel separated from the gay community because of this?

Well, I think there is a cultural aspect at play here. With Pride week coming to a close, I think that's hard to deny. Clearly, it would not be on that level in a school, say. But I don't see it as being any different than any other kind of cultural group. I don't think a non-homophobic straight person would feel separated, particularly if they don't have an interest in attending, anymore than they would at the presence any other cultural club they don't fit into. Or any club really, not just cultural. Going back to the school level... if you're not good at math, then clearly the math club isn't for you. XD It isn't segregation at all

 

[Dakotah]

I do too. I just see it more as an educational, acceptance-gaining type of thing. And less about anti-bullying. But if you can kill two birds with one stone, all the better

Agreed.

See, in that way... I don't see it as being anti-gay persay. Or, well, it is clearly as "gay" is being used in a derogatory fashion. The term is being used as an insult, and it shouldn't be. Neanderthals use it as such. But "gay" is the term of use now. They mean it to be "weird". Different.

The use of the word gay to describe something that is weird or different (or stupid) is very insulting if you happen to be gay. To associate the word with a negative perception is just as wrong as saying "You're such a Newfie," to describe an individual's lack of intelligence, or to call them stupid, clueless or dense. Newfie, as some people will recall, is a colloquial term used for someone who is from Newfoundland, and it is often said in a disparaging context.

I regularly call people out for using that word, reminding them that its use in that way is inappropriate and insulting. They are often very apologetic.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I'm an individualist right-libertarian. That means that I don't group people in to categories, be them racial, sexual, or anything else. That would be collectivist thinking.

 

[Legobricks]

So are you saying having a Pokémon Forum makes us weaker?

My initial thought here was along these lines, but it should be borne in mind that being a Pocket Monsters fan is not an explict requirement for being here, while being X may be one for partaking in X group. This place isn't exclusive or for one we wouldn't have an off-topic section.

Now, I can be glad that such institutions exist, but only for the sake of awareness and education. I'm not sure that having these things as communities rather than on a purely informational basis is necessarily beneficial on the whole.

 

[Esper]

Now, I can be glad that such institutions exist, but only for the sake of awareness and education. I'm not sure that having these things as communities rather than on a purely informational basis is necessarily beneficial on the whole.

Beneficial or not, I would think that communities are just the natural extension of people looking for information about a given subject. Like attracts like. I don't think it would be very easy to have institutions without corresponding groups.

 

[Abi~]

I think it's fine until the LGBT community is truly equal to straights. Until then, it makes sense why there might be those sorts of spaces for them.