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Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0

FrozenVirus

Make a Wish! <33
54
Posts
16
Years
  • The Dragon-Steel combination is widely known for its ability to effectively cover each others' weaknesses, both offensively and defensively. I've recently been invited to join a competitive league where one is required to construct a team of five members of two different types, and a wild card. I couldn't resist but give this esteemed duo-typing a try myself, and started thinking up a tough and effective team. This team starts off with a unique Anti-Lead that is able to knock out, if not severely cripple common leads, and get Stealth Rock up at the same time. Then it takes advantage of Magnezone's unique ability to trap and eliminate Steel-type pokémon that would otherwise give my two Dragons a hard time. What's interesting is that these two Dragons serve as bait to lure out their Steel-type counters, which are then swiftly dealt with by the trapping Magnezone. Then I figured if I could eliminate all of CursePert's potential counters, ie. Celebi, and other bulky waters, I could attempt a sweep with it. Was I successful in my team building process? That is up to you to decide.

    For people who are too lazy to actually read through the descriptions, here are the six members of my team at a quick glance, along with their held items:

    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0
    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0
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    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0
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    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0
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    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0
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    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0
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    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0
    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0


    Now let's take a look at the type resistance and weakness chart, courtesy of Marriland:

    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0


    As you can see from the chart above, my team does have four quadruple weaknesses, but one glaring weakness from one member of the team is generally well covered by the rest of the team.

    Well I'm certainly not going to stall any longer, so without much further ado, I present to you my team of what I think is the best type combination in the pokémon metagame.


    The Steels



    1. What? I am a surprisingly good Anti-Lead...

    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0


    Empoleon (M) @ Wide Lens
    Modest Nature | Torrent
    156 Hit Points | 252 Special Attack | 100 Speed

    Moveset:

    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Aqua Jet
    ~ Grass Knot

    Moveset Analysis:

    • Stealth Rock: My team is highly offensive, with Swampert being the only member primarily focused on defense. Stealth Rock is essentially a necessity for the team, and Empoleon is bulky enough to get the job done.
    • Hydro Pump: Empoleon strongest and a generally reliable STAB move. With Empoleon's competent Special Attack stat, Hydro Pump deals massive damage to bulky Ground-types, and fragile sweepers in general. Wide Lens raises Hydro Pump's shaky 80% accuracy to a more reliable 88%.
    • Aqua Jet: Empoleon may not have the attack to deal much damage with this move, but with Hydro Pump's overwhelming power, most suicide leads will be reduced to their Focus Sash, if not knocked out completely. With the Sash gone, they can be immediately dispatched by Aqua Jet.
    • Grass Knot: This is Empoleon's best (and only) answer to the omnipresent Swampert Lead. Grass Knot has a base power of 80 on Swampert, which means that a standard MixPert takes between 94%-110% from it. Opponents will general withdraw Swampert upon witnessing the entrance of Empoleon, providing me with the opportunity to set up Stealth Rock immediately.

    Why did I choose Empoleon?

    Empoleon certainly isn't a lead that one would normally expect to see on the Pokémon battlefield. As I've previously mentioned, my team had to consist of Pokémon of the Dragon and Steel-types, however I felt that there weren't any Dragon-types that could make suitable leads. I could lead with Salamence and attempt a sweep right off the bat, but without Stealth Rock in play, it would be extremely difficult. Plus, a ridiculously high number of leads carry Focus Sash, or some sort of status move. So I turned to the Steel-type. What opportunities lay there? There was Jirachi, who had the ability to use Serene Grace and Iron Head to eliminate fast and fragile leads, and Trick a Choice Scarf onto slower and bulkier leads. But Jirachi Leads are pretty commonly seen nowadays, and they lack the ability to do any real damage to things like Swampert and Hippowdon. They cannot prevent Stealth Rock from being set up, even if they do succeed in Tricking a Scarf onto the opposing lead. Then, of course, one could not forget Heatran with a Shuca Berry. Again, quite overused and abused, and it could not effectively deal with Swampert and Hippowdon without having to resort to sacrifice a slot to Hidden Power. It was then that I was made aware of Empoleon's potential as a lead, after stumbling upon it while browsing through Smogon one day. I love it for its ability to eliminate common leads, but at the same time carry the bulk to be able to set up entry hazards. The EV spread allows it to outspeed the likes of Metagross, Tyranitar and Machamp, and generally do serious damage before they can retaliate. The HP EVs give it considerable bulk, and ensures its survival again non-STABed Earthquakes, Electric, and Fighting-type attacks. As for the item, I had once considered using a Chople Berry, which would allow it to beat out Infernape and Lucario leads, but as I would have to sacrifice Hydro Pump's accuracy, I felt it was unnecessary. Lead Infernape do not threaten this team a great deal, and Lucario leads are seldom seen. Empoleon's role extends beyond acting as an Anti-Lead and Lead-in-one. With its plethora of resistances, (twelve to be exact, second to only Magnezone in OU) and a quadruple weakness to both Ice and Steel-type (yes, that means you, Scizor) attacks, it can easily switch in and threaten the opponent with its extremely powerful Hydro Pump. Overall, Empoleon is a great Pokémon that definitely should not be underestimated.

    Team Synergy:

    Ground: Salamence | Latias
    Electric: Swampert | Latias | Magnezone
    Fighting: Salamence | Latias

    How Empoleon handles (or does not handle) opposing leads:

    Azelf: Reduced down to its Sash by Hydro Pump, then finished off with Aqua Jet.
    Aerodactyl: Will usually Taunt first, and is eliminated via same procedure as Azelf.
    Breloom: Very uncommon, but I generally will have to sacrifice Empoleon to sleep, and switch out to Mence.
    Bronzong: Variants that carry Earthquake are a bit of a pain, ones with only Gyro Ball can be set up on. Hydro Pump does 42.60% - 50.30% to 252/92 Sassy Bronzong.
    Empoleon: Honestly, I've never faced one before. But I suppose Stealth Rock, then Grass Knot.
    Forretress: Hydro Pump is generally a 2HKO (82.77% - 97.46%), but I might set up Stealth Rock first.
    Gengar: Both Focus Blast and Thunderbolt fail to OHKO, providing they are unboosted, and providing Gengar does not put me to sleep, Hydro Pump + Aqua Jet does the trick.
    Gliscor: Unboosted Earthquake fails to OHKO without significant EV investment, whereas Hydro Pump is an easy OHKO on standard 252/0 Gliscor.
    Gyarados: Uncommon, and causes problems. Grass Knot would be a 3HKO, but I won't likely stay in to take Earthquakes.
    Heatran: Hydro Pump is an easy OHKO on standard 4/0 Timid variants.
    Hippowdon: Hydro Pump does 108.10% - 127.14% to 252/88 Impish Hippo, even in Sandstorm.
    Infernape: I could potentially OHKO Life Orb leads with Hydro Pump, or use the famous combo for variants with Sash, as they'll most likely set up Stealth Rock the first turn. But I generally don't take the risk.
    Jirachi: Empoleon 4x resists Iron Head, so Jirachi will most likely use Trick on the first turn. I switch to Magnezone, who already has a Scarf, to trap and eliminate it.
    Mamoswine: Empoleon evidently cannot take a STAB Earthquake from this beast, so I will typically switch to one of my Dragons, then to Scizor to take the Ice attack and 2HKO with Bullet Punch. A bit of a nuisance.
    Metagross: Hydro Pump is a 2HKO (58.52% - 68.68%) on 252/0 Adamant Metagross, whereas Earthquake fails to OHKO Empoleon.
    Ninjask: Again, a nuisance. I guess the only thing I can do is to keep Aqua Jetting.
    Smeargle: These will common lead to set up entry hazards, and they don't bother my team too much. So I will usually sacrifice either Swampert or Empoleon to take the Spore.
    Starmie: I switch into Latias to take the Thunderbolt, then OHKO with Draco Meteor.
    Swampert: Standard MixPert's Earthquake does not OHKO, but it takes 94.06% - 110.64% from Grass Knot, a likely OHKO.
    Tyranitar: Never faced one before. Although they do invest heavily in Special Defense, they generally lack any offensive moves that would hurt Empoleon.
    Weavile: Hydro Pump deals 79.08% - 92.91% to 4/0 Hasty Weavile, a 2HKO. Anti-Lead Weavile generally lack moves that can hurt Empoleon.


    2. You can run from me, but you can't hide. Wait...you can't run either.


    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0


    Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
    Mild Nature | Magnet Pull
    4 Hit Points | 252 Special Attack | 252 Speed

    Moveset:

    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Signal Beam
    ~ Hidden Power
    ~ Explosion

    Moveset Analysis:

    • Thunderbolt: Boasting a Special Attack stat of 393 and a base 95 damage STAB move, Magnezone does serious damage with Thunderbolt to anything that does not resist it. Perfect for eliminating Skarmory and Water-types, and Magnezone's best answer to Heatran.
    • Signal Beam: This is present on the set for a sole purpose: to eliminate Celebi. It deals 90.10% - 106.19% to 252/0 Bold Celebi (which is the standard), and is therefore a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock damage.
    • Hidden Power (Fire): Self-explantory, really. It easily OHKOs both Forretress and Scizor, deals 80.50% - 94.68% to 4/0 Lucario, which is a guaranteed KO after two uses of Life Orb, and inflicts 47.09% - 55.40% to 80/0 Jolly Jirachi, a likely 2HKO.
    • Explosion: With Magnezone's measly base 70 attack, this will only be useful against frail sweepers, and Blissey. Explosion only deals 68.21% - 80.25% to 252/252 Bold Blissey, which is unfortunate. But it is only used in desperation, after all.
    Why did I choose Magnezone?

    Magnezone is a unique pokémon. Whereas it suffers from three annoying weaknesses, including a nasty quadruple weakness to Ground, it makes up for this with the fact that it takes neutral damage from only one type and boasts 13 resistances. In addition, it carries the useful trait of being able to prevent the escape of any Steel-type pokémon without a Shed Shell. As previously stated, Dragon-type attacks are only resisted by Steel-types, and Magnezone makes life easier for my Dragon duo by wiping these pokémon off the map. With the ability to come in on Scizor's Bullet Punch (something that it spams), and Heatran's Dragon Pulse (the only reason why a Heatran would switch into a Salamence would be due to the fact that it carries a Choice Scarf), it can swiftly dispose of both of them with its mighty fists (or magnets) of Steel. It is also able to trap and eliminate Skarmory and Forretress with generally no threat to itself, however these Magnezone-fearing pokémon may carry a Shed Shell. Magnezone's base 115 defense allows it to take unboosted Outrages and retaliate with a swift and powerful Thunderbolt. With a Choice Scarf and a neutral speed nature, Magnezone hits 327 speed, which is unfortunately one speed point short of achieving a speed tie with max speed Salamence. I used a + Special Attack nature instead because I felt that Magnezone needed the extra attack boost, and outspeeding Salamence was not so much of a concern, as Magnezone serves a sole purpose to eliminate Steel-types. Magnezone may lack the speed and the stat-boosting moves to sweep entire teams, but with such a unique typing, and such a helpful ability, it plays an undeniably vital role in the success of my team.

    Team Synergy:

    Ground: Salamence | Latias
    Fighting: Salamence | Latias
    Fire: Salamence | Latias | Swampert


    3. Just because everyone and their mother has one...

    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0


    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Adamant Nature | Technician
    248 Hit Points | 252 Attack | 4 Special Defense | 4 Speed

    Moveset:

    ~ Bullet Punch
    ~ U-turn
    ~ Superpower
    ~ Pursuit

    Moveset Analysis:

    • Bullet Punch: With Technician and STAB factored in. the originally base 40 move reaches a respectable 90 base power. Add that to Scizor's sky-high 591 attack (with Choice Band), and you get a fearsome combination. Bullet Punch allows Scizor to finish off weakened and/or frail Sweepers, in spite of its mediocre speed.
    • U-turn: The best option for scouting in the metagame, it becomes an extremely powerful move in the hands of the beast we call Scizor. It deals massive damage to bulky Psychics like Cresselia, and spells death to even the bulkiest of Celebi. It is unique in that it allows Scizor to escape from the iron grip of a trapping Magnezone.
    • Superpower: Scizor's answer to Steel-types that would normally wall its entire set. Even though Scizor does not receive STAB for it, it is still extremely powerful, capable of knocking out the most defensive of Blissey, as well as both Magnezone (172/0 Steel Killer variant), and Heatran should they have the temptation to switch in.
    • Pursuit: Scizor is able to trap frail Ghost and Psychic types with the notion of "will I Bullet Punch or will I Pursuit?". Regardless of whether or not they stay in, Pursuit is a OHKO on the likes of Gengar and Alakazam (the former occasionally carries Hidden Power Fire), as Technician boosts its base power from 40 to 60.

    Why did I choose Scizor?

    Do I even need to answer this question? Scizor is the definition of fear in today's metagame. Salamence giving you problems? Send out Scizor. Gengar getting on your nerves? Send out Scizor. Is Blissey too fat for your liking? Send out Scizor. Every single team must carry a reliable counter to Scizor (and by reliable I don't mean Magnezone, as it is OHKOed by Superpower), as it is just too overwhelming powerful to be ignored. And I sure haven't ignored it. It's been featured in the majority of my teams so far, and for a good reason. It simply has no equal. It is unparalleled when it comes to scouting and dealing massive damage at the same time, and makes a very capable revenge killer with Bullet Punch and its unique ability. In addition, it possesses the defensive stats and resistances (10!) necessary to survive switch-ins (unless they're attacks of the Fire-type) and become an immediate threat with its Choice Band set. I chose to invest 4 EVs into Special Defense to fall one point short of a speed tie with opposing Choice Band Scizor. This gives me the advantage of being able to U-turn second, which also allows me to see which pokémon my opponent switches to. Scizor is simply too amazing to resist, just like how the combination of these four moves is not resisted by any pokémon in the OU metagame (I know that was a horrible pun).

    Team Synergy:

    Fire: Salamence | Latias | Swampert


    The Dragons


    4. The Omnipotent Beast of the Sky


    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0


    Salamence (F) @ Life Orb
    Jolly Nature | Intimidate
    4 Hit Points | 252 Attack | 252 Speed

    Moveset:

    ~ Dragon Dance
    ~ Outrage
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Thunder Fang

    Moveset Analysis:

    • Dragon Dance:I shouldn't have to explain that this is a staple on all offensive, non-Choice Salamence sets. Salamence already has impressive attack and speed, but with Dragon Dance under its belt, it becomes even more fearsome.
    • Outrage: With the addition of a base 180 power move into its arsenal after the release of Platinum, Salamence has turned into a powerhouse of a physical sweeper. With all the Steel-types out of the way (courtesy to Magnezone), not many Pokémon will enjoy taking such a powerful attack.
    • Earthquake: Even with all the Steel-types out of the way, Salamence will often have to rely on secondary attacks in order to refrain from locking itself into Outrage. Earthquake is a very good choice for a move, as it maintains a balance between both power and accuracy.
    • Thunder Fang: This is where it starts to get rather odd. Most Salamence sets carry either Fire Blast or Stone Edge for the final moveslot. So why did I decide to use Thunder Fang instead? Gyarados often switch confidently into Salamence, as the vast , majority carry Fire Blast as opposed to Stone Edge. Thunder Fang provides a quick and dirty way of disposing of the overgrown sea monster, and also aides in the crippling of Water-types such as Starmie.

    Why did I choose Salamence?

    I really didn't have much of a choice, to be honest. There are only so many Dragon-types in the OU tier, after all. Dragonite lacked the speed necessary to be too much of a threat; Flygon had the speed, but lacked the offensive stats and did not have access to Dragon Dance; and Kingdra had bulk, but did not have much to offer in terms of speed and sheer power. In addition, it did not have access to Earthquake, and did not help my team with synergy. So I turned to Salamence, as it was the best option. Don't get me wrong; I did not choose Salamence solely out of desperation. It is by no means not a capable and effective sweeper. In fact, it has a good reason to be one of the most widely used offensive player in the history of Pokémon. It has much to offer in terms of versatility, and generally cannot be matched when it comes to unpredictability. It also possesses an ability that no other Dragon-type can claim to have: Intimidate. Salamence's defenses are certainly not the best, but with 95 base HP it can be surprisingly bulky. And if we factor in Intimidate, we'll find that Salamence can be surprisingly efficient in walling a vast number of physical attacks, including the omnipresent Close Combat, Waterfall, and Earthquake. On the special end of the spectrum, Salamence resists both Surf and Flamethrower, and boasts a quadruple resistance to Grass-type attacks such as Grass Knot and Energy Ball. I chose to go with a Jolly nature over Adamant because with a metagame as fast-paced and hard-hitting as the current one, speed is life.

    Team Synergy:

    Ice: Empoleon | Scizor | Magnezone
    Rock: Swampert | Empoleon | Magnezone
    Dragon: Magnezone | Scizor | Empoleon


    5. The Mystical and Majestic Maiden of Alto Mare

    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0


    Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Timid Nature | Levitate
    80 Hit Points | 252 Special Attack | 176 Speed

    Moveset:

    ~ Draco Meteor
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Surf
    ~ Trick

    Moveset Analysis:

    • Draco Meteor: As Latias will typically be serving the role of a revenge killer, Draco Meteor is ideal for its moveset. Latias's base 110 special attack stat is certainly not to be underestimated, and with such a powerful special attack in Draco Meteor, she is capable of swift OHKOs against the likes of Salamence, Dragonite, Flygon, as well as opposing offensively-based Latias.
    • Thunderbolt: This move is very useful against the common Bulky Waters such as Vaporeon and Suicune. Whereas Draco Meteor boasts an amazing base power of 210 factoring in STAB, which is greater than Thunderbolt's base 190 power after factoring in super-effective damage, Latias must rely on consistency as opposed to sheer power when dealing with study Water-types like Vaporeon and Suicune. Thunderbolt also comes in handy as a additional method of eliminating Gyarados.
    • Surf: Latias's best answer to Infernape (whom it generally walls to a great extent), as well as the variety bulky Ground-type Pokémon in the metagame. However, when it comes to hitting Steel-types for neutral damage, it is irrelevant whether Surf or Thunderbolt is used, as they have the same base power.
    • Trick: A quick and dirty way of screwing up set ups, Trick can be used on bulky waters and other walls and seriously hinder their ability to effectively perform their duties. Once they are in possession of a Choice Scarf, they must decide between attacking, recovering, and inflicting status.
    Why did I choose Latias?

    Latias has a nice balance of defensive bulk, offensive stats, and impressive speed, which makes it the perfect choice for a revenge killer for my team. With a Choice Scarf, a Timid nature, and 176 Speed EVs, Latias hits 330 Speed, which means that it is capable of outpacing even the fastest of Salamence after a single Dragon Dance (it is able to outpace max speed ScarfMence as well), and proceed to finish it off with a Draco Meteor. That being said, it is evidently able to outpace other Dragon Dancers such as Gyarados and Dragonite and finish them off with super-effective moves as well. The remaining 80 EVs were invested into HP to increase Latias's bulk and survivability. I generally try my best to free Latias from the wrath of the Choice Scarf every chance I have, and it normally receives Leftovers in return, which is always beneficial to its well-being. Don't be fooled by Latias's innocent and harmless-looking exterior. The cuteness that she is blessed with parallels how dangerous she can truly be.

    Team Synergy:

    Ice: Empoleon | Scizor | Magnezone
    Bug: Salamence | Magnezone | Empoleon | Scizor
    Dark: Scizor | Empoleon | Magnezone
    Ghost: Scizor | Empoleon | Magnezone
    Dragon: Magnezone | Scizor | Empoleon


    The Wild Card

    6. Well, I certainly feel out of place...

    Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0


    Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
    Careful Nature | Torrent
    252 Hit Points | 160 Defense | 96 Special Defense

    Moveset:

    ~ Curse
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Avalanche
    ~ Rest

    Moveset Analysis
    :
    • Curse: Well, I couldn't find a fancy icon for the ??? type, so I just used the Ghost-type. Anyhow, Swampert is a pretty bulky Pokémon in general, but it is primarily used to wall physical attacks, and that is why this set is primarily focused on physical defense. Curse not only increases defense, but boosts attack as well, turning Swampert into a potent physical attacker.
    • Earthquake: Earthquake is hands-down the best physical attack in the game. Dealing 100 damage, and boasting 100% accuracy, it hits five types of Pokémon for super-effective damage (Fire, Rock, Steel, Poison, and Electric), and does not have any negative side effects. Swampert receives STAB for it as well, which is definitely a well-appreciated bonus.
    • Avalanche: After Swampert sets up a single Curse, Swampert hits around 380 defense. With 404 HP and 380 defense, it is nearly impervious to any kind of physical attack, and with Curse lowering its speed stat, it will undoubtedly be able to strike last and do massive damage with a base 120 damage move. Dealing with physical Salamence, Dragonite, and Flygon is a breeze with Avalanche.
    • Rest: Waterfall used to occupy this spot, until I discovered that Rest provided Swampert with an easy way to get rid of status problems (especially the annoying Poison that comes from Toxic Spikes...). Swampert is the only Pokémon on my team vulnerable to Toxic Spikes, therefore Rest is a welcomed addition to its moveset.
    Why did I choose Swampert?

    I'm sort of getting tired of answering these questions...To be honest, I really had no idea what to put in this slot, as felt that my team was complete without the addition of a third Dragon-type. Then I noticed that, once again, my team was slightly Tyranitar weak (as are pretty much all my teams). And of course, my mind just jumped to Swampert, because it is after all one of the best defensive Tyranitar counters. The only thing it has a reason to fear is the extremely rare Hidden Power (Grass) coming from a Mixed Dragon Dance variant. But I didn't just want to go with the standard MixPert, or even the slightly less common Physical Swampert, as I felt that they were two unoriginal, and lacked a sense of...refinement. Then I thought about the under appreciated and underused CursePert set. As Smogon says, it has the potential to hit a lot harder if allowed to set up, so all I had to worry about was removing its counters. Looking down that list, one of the biggest ones ones that come into mind is Celebi. But I've already got that handled with my Scizor, and Signal Beam on Magnezone (which generally comes as a surprise). Secondly, bulky Waters such as Milotic, Suicune, and Vaporeon seem to give Swampy a hard time. Magnezone and Empoleon can do serious damage to these (Empoleon with Grass Knot, and 'zone with Thunderbolt), and they can also be crippled by Latias's Trick. Of course, then there are Zapdos, Gengar, and other Pokémon with weird Hidden Powers, but these can generally be predicted and dealt with. I'm not going to go through the details, as I will post a threat list later.

    Team Synergy:

    Grass: Salamence | Latias | Scizor | Magnezone


    Changes Log:

    * Removed Flash Cannon on Magnezone and replaced it with Signal Beam
    * Changed Magnezone's nature from Naive to Mild
    * Removed Fire Blast on Salamence and replaced it with Thunder Fang
    * Changed Salamence's nature from Naive to Jolly
    * Moved 80 EVs on Latias from Speed to HP
    * Replaced Nasty Plot Azelf with CursePert
    * Removed Waterfall on Swampert and replaced it with Rest
     
    Last edited:

    Anti

    return of the king
    10,818
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • There is no reason to run Thunder Fang on Salamence at all. Stone Edge still beats Gyarados, it's just less accurate. No one is going to switch Gyarados into Salamence unless they are a total idiot. Starmie is an equally horrific switch-in, so you're not even going to be facing the things Thunder Fang is supposed to hit unless your opponent is desperate. Stone Edge is a better choice if you want to hit Gyarados, especially since it doesn't lock you into Outrage against stuff like Zapdos and opposing Salamence (if one shows up to bait Outrage).

    Also, I am sort of doubting Swampert's slot. It's not like bulky Waters are going to stay in to get obliterated by a STAB Thunderbolt, so I mean...its counters probably aren't going to be out of the way unless they die trying to stop something else. Of course, if it works for you, keep it, since I don't really have a better replacement.

    Otherwise, it's a well-done RMT and a pretty decent team too. 3 choice users is definitely not good though, as unboosted attacks are easy to take advantage of with an appropriate set-up Pokemon. The goal of this team is pretty obvious though, so as long as 2 scarfers doesn't compromise that, I guess you don't really have to worry about it at all.
     

    FrozenVirus

    Make a Wish! <33
    54
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • There is no reason to run Thunder Fang on Salamence at all. Stone Edge still beats Gyarados, it's just less accurate. No one is going to switch Gyarados into Salamence unless they are a total idiot. Starmie is an equally horrific switch-in, so you're not even going to be facing the things Thunder Fang is supposed to hit unless your opponent is desperate. Stone Edge is a better choice if you want to hit Gyarados, especially since it doesn't lock you into Outrage against stuff like Zapdos and opposing Salamence (if one shows up to bait Outrage).

    Also, I am sort of doubting Swampert's slot. It's not like bulky Waters are going to stay in to get obliterated by a STAB Thunderbolt, so I mean...its counters probably aren't going to be out of the way unless they die trying to stop something else. Of course, if it works for you, keep it, since I don't really have a better replacement.

    Otherwise, it's a well-done RMT and a pretty decent team too. 3 choice users is definitely not good though, as unboosted attacks are easy to take advantage of with an appropriate set-up Pokemon. The goal of this team is pretty obvious though, so as long as 2 scarfers doesn't compromise that, I guess you don't really have to worry about it at all.

    I could consider using Magnezone's Steel-Killer set over this Scarf set. It would certainly give it a lot more survivability. In fact, I don't even remember why I decided to go for the Choice Scarf set in the first place. I probably ran it to outspeed Lucario, to be honest, although I can't even OHKO it in the first place.

    Anyhow, you're probably right about Swampert. I really had no idea what to put in the last slot, and I had originally filled it with Nasty Plot Azelf, as to have another pokémon that was immune to Ground. However, I felt it to be completely pointless after a few battles, and replaced it with CursePert, as I had never tried the set before. It has yet to reveal its true potential for me, as it's met an ill-fated doom in both of the battles that I've tried it in. Someone on Smogon suggested that I replace it with a Wish-Protect Vaporeon with Ice Beam and Surf to reliably check things such as Heatran, Infernape, Salamence, and to an extent, Tyranitar. The reason was that Vaporeon made the job easier for Latias, who lacked recovery and would not enjoy taking repeated hits from these four pokémon (mainly Infernape and Heatran).
     

    Sebastien Loeb

    Motorsport Trainer
    372
    Posts
    16
    Years
    • Seen Mar 6, 2010
    I would say to decidedly give a more defensive moveset to Latias, if you lose it you become very weak to Pokémon as SDLuke or MixApe it is too much main point for your team.
     
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