Fanfiction Lounge

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not to be a prick but (There's always a but, isn't there? ;) ), talking down to someone is equivalent with treating that someone like an idiot (I.e. Going by the assumption that they wouldn't get it if you didn't use the simplest words possible), and you can't really have disbalance between two identical things.

Also, the habit of spoon-feeding the plot is something that I've always found annoying, thus why I personally prefer the authors who don't do it at all or at least don't make it excessively plain. Having everything spelled out to me real nice and simple utterly spoils the fun of discovering things on my own, thus why I dislike it and try to avoid it myself. A book that doesn't challenge your imagination or attentiveness at all is quite a dull one in my opinion. Besides, reading more complicated stories certainly helps you develop appreciation for the more subtle details of a story which eventually makes way for understanding those details. If you're spoon-fed all your life, how can you expect to learn how to eat on your own?

As for the 'story will get better' thing, that's just redundant. If you know that your story is going to improve later on then prove it; don't say it. Also, I agree with Frostweaver on the point that a sticky beginning is simply one in need of improvement. There are ways to make even a rather uneventful beginning interesting.

This is not to say that I think Author's Notes in general are a bad thing, though, and I agree that getting to know a bit of the author and the background of the fic is fun. It's just the empty promises that I'd prefer not to see. .___.

I'm also agreeing with Orange Flaaffy on the overly complicated language. The key is to pick the words with the most appropriate connotations and collocations for what you're trying to convey. *Shot for lit. analysis jargon* A cluster of poorly chosen complex words just gives off the impression that you're trying to look smarter than you are (Although that could be appropriate with certain narrators xD), which can be as awful as a chapter full of 'said's. Here we do have a balance situation.
 
What author notes can/should include:

-copyright information (necessity if you post on certain websites due to policies)
-update date (but make sure that you can keep a promise afterward)
-glimpse of the next chapter
-author's opinions (not explanation)
-author's replies to reviews
-contact information
-"R/R" or help request

What author's notes shouldn't include:
-plot summary/explanation
-"it will get better"
-"OOC warning" (story should explain the OOC itself)
-"update when I have xx reviews"

What I personally allow but some other reviewers dislike in author's notes:
-listed pairing in romance story as ch.1 author's notes in the beginning

(Now this one is actually plot, but I CAN understand why it's necessary. For romance, a lot of people will immediately hate/quit reading a story if it does not have the desired pairing most of the time. It can be stated that you might as well tell them the pairing so you save their time... It has its cons as well, as now you lost the hype on who is going to pair with who, but if I do see this one, I won't make a fuss about it unlike other forms of plot summary.)
 
Alter Ego said:
Not to be a prick but (There's always a but, isn't there? ;) ), talking down to someone is equivalent with treating that someone like an idiot (I.e. Going by the assumption that they wouldn't get it if you didn't use the simplest words possible), and you can't really have disbalance between two identical things.
Click to expand...
They are not identical really:). When you write a story with a reading level in mind it is the same thing you would do if you were trying to sell a book in real life, you are not talking down to them, you are merely insuring that a wider range of readers enjoy your story.
And truth be told I do not most of the time go out of my way to change anything for the sake of readership anyhow, so no need to be prickly:D

Also, the habit of spoon-feeding the plot is something that I've always found annoying, thus why I personally prefer the authors who don't do it at all or at least don't make it excessively plain.
Click to expand...
That's the key, balance,you have to write something simple but enjoyable. I use my fanfic and the ages who read it it in my head to judge if some day I might make a good YA novel author :).
Having everything spelled out to me real nice and simple utterly spoils the fun of discovering things on my own, thus why I dislike it and try to avoid it myself.
Click to expand...
Sometimes it just has to be said however that does'nt mean it isn't said well. When the detail you talk about is not the biggest plot twist in the story, and there is still a lot of the character to discover, I don't think it ruins anything :)

A book that doesn't challenge your imagination or attentiveness at all is quite a dull one in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Of course it still challenges your imagination, silly boy ;). I never said anything about the fic having to be written with any less wonder or fantasy :P

Besides, reading more complicated stories certainly helps you develop appreciation for the more subtle details of a story which eventually makes way for understanding those details. If you're spoon-fed all your life, how can you expect to learn how to eat on your own?
Click to expand...
I don't know, I wish myself that publishers were'nt doing what they were doing now, but I can't do much about it. I still read the classics anyway :)

As for the 'story will get better' thing, that's just redundant. If you know that your story is going to improve later on then prove it; don't say it. Also, I agree with Frostweaver on the point that a sticky beginning is simply one in need of improvement. There are ways to make even a rather uneventful beginning interesting.
Click to expand...
Oh, it won't kill you if you hear it though, honestly. Now the "Please submit your character to be in my story" thingies, those are killers.

This is not to say that I think Author's Notes in general are a bad thing, though, and I agree that getting to know a bit of the author and the background of the fic is fun. It's just the empty promises that I'd prefer not to see. .___.
Click to expand...
Oh, like they say they have a great plot and it turns out to have an Eevee starter? *lol*

I'm also agreeing with Orange Flaaffy on the overly complicated language. The key is to pick the words with the most appropriate connotations and collocations for what you're trying to convey. *Shot for lit. analysis jargon* A cluster of poorly chosen complex words just gives off the impression that you're trying to look smarter than you are (Although that could be appropriate with certain narrators xD), which can be as awful as a chapter full of 'said's.
Click to expand...
I also helps if you don't get into that habit becuase college English teachers can smell it a mile away and it is not good in essay writing. For the love of pika, use words you can actually understandand know how to use and not just words you pulled out of a book to have people crowd around you (ontheSforums *cough*) saying "OMG you are sooo smart and your writing is sooo deep!":cheeky:
 
Oh, like they say they have a great plot and it turns out to have an Eevee starter? *lol*
Click to expand...

Why is it that everyone likes Eevee starters so much? Are we all just mad that we didn't get one like Gary in Yellow Version? XD Seriously, though, I've read a couple of excellent fanfics with Eevee starters. It's when the starter is a dragon type that I start to tremble...

Oh, it won't kill you if you hear it though, honestly. Now the "Please submit your character to be in my story" thingies, those are killers.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean...

They are not identical really. When you write a story with a reading level in mind it is the same thing you would do if you were trying to sell a book in real life, you are not talking down to them, you are merely insuring that a wider range of readers enjoy your story.
And truth be told I do not most of the time go out of my way to change anything for the sake of readership anyhow, so no need to be prickly
Click to expand...

Eh, I let whoever reads mine read it. Due to the training in writing my mother gave me, I write in such a way that many people can understand what I'm saying without really thinking about it- at least, when I'm writing nonfiction. My fiction isn't reviewed often enough for me to tell. XD

What author's notes shouldn't include:
-plot summary/explanation
-"it will get better"
-"OOC warning" (story should explain the OOC itself)
-"update when I have xx reviews"
Click to expand...

Yeppers.

-copyright information (necessity if you post on certain websites due to policies)
-update date (but make sure that you can keep a promise afterward)
-glimpse of the next chapter
-author's opinions (not explanation)
-author's replies to reviews
-contact information
-"R/R" or help request
Click to expand...

You forgot to add "extras". I just wrote one into my own author's notes because it was too short to be a chapter on its own, but I still wanted people to read it. I enjoyed it...
 
On the thesaurus... If you are really stuck, and keep on using the same word and want to use something different, then sure, go ahead. But what really gets me is when people substitute every other word with something found out of a thesaurus just to seem smarter. Higher vocabulary is something earned through age, and a heluva of a lot of reading, and to try and cheat like that kinda drives me around the bend.

And if you are going to do it, you could at least find out what the words you are using mean. Spweing out your tongue doesn't really work. ¬.¬

...But then again, I don't always check what words mean. I only realised recently that a word I used in my fic Phoenix, (I was fed up with always using bloodred, red, ectra), Titian, was mostly used when describing hair. *is stoned* XD

But still.

My personal opinion. *flees to bomb shelter*
 
The problem with thesaurus is that the thesaurus will never explain both denotation and connotation... People think that oh if the denotation is right, then the conotation is tossed out the window and ignored... which doesn't work. You really need to have both of them correct. Sometimes, the simple words are the best ones available.

Also, there's a poetry contest going on in Other Writing! Really go take a look if you are interested! I'll PM Peeshu later to advertise here for more victims participants.
 
Orange_Flaaffy said:
They are not identical really:) . When you write a story with a reading level in mind it is the same thing you would do if you were trying to sell a book in real life, you are not talking down to them, you are merely insuring that a wider range of readers enjoy your story.
And truth be told I do not most of the time go out of my way to change anything for the sake of readership anyhow, so no need to be prickly :D
Click to expand...

Actually, you said, and I quote "you don't want to talk down to your readers but you don't want to act like they are stupid ether", and I still maintain that talking down to someone is treating that someone like an idiot and that you can't have a balance between two identical things, although I do agree that you can simplify wording without making it less enjoyable to read, provided that you do it right. :O

Orange_Flaaffy said:
That's the key, balance,you have to write something simple but enjoyable. I use my fanfic and the ages who read it it in my head to judge if some day I might make a good YA novel author .
Click to expand...

Actually, age isn't really an accurate measure of reading skill. I've seen 13-year olds who's language using and comprehension skills far exceeding those of certain other people aged 18+, it's all a matter of education, really. This being the case, I just try to write in terms I understand and go with the assumption that anyone with enough interest to read what I write must also have developed enough skills to comprehend what they read. Oh well, to each their own...both views and audiences. ^-^

Orange_Flaaffy said:
Sometimes it just has to be said however that does'nt mean it isn't said well. When the detail you talk about is not the biggest plot twist in the story, and there is still a lot of the character to discover, I don't think it ruins anything :)
Click to expand...

It's true that some kind of exposition becomes necessary at one point or the other, but that doesn't mean that you have to make everything blatantly obvious at the moment that one arrives (I've seen some pieces of writing that do that. .___.), there are so many ways to convey the details that are a lot more subtle and enjoyable than smacking your reader over the head with them, especially in the ones written with a younger audience in mind in which this is done repeatedly. We studied some of those in Swedish, and it got seriously annoying after a while, kind of made me want to scream "I get it already!!" after a while. <.<

Orange_Flaaffy said:
I don't know, I wish myself that publishers were'nt doing what they were doing now, but I can't do much about it. I still read the classics anyway :)
Click to expand...

Sucks about the publishers, really. A lot of successful books were actually denied publishing for a long time. which only goes to show how much they know about what readers want. :P Anyway, I'm not opposed to classics in general...just the bad ones. xD

Orange_Flaaffy said:
Oh, it won't kill you if you hear it though, honestly. Now the "Please submit your character to be in my story" thingies, those are killers.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, compared to the soul-rending fury of "submit characters" I guess that a few "it's going to get better"s are to be accepted. That's not to say that a tiny part of my soul doesn't die every time I run into that, though. :O

Orange_Flaaffy said:
Oh, like they say they have a great plot and it turns out to have an Eevee starter? *lol*
Click to expand...

Hey, don't knock the Eevee starter. xO I've actually read a wonderful fic that used one (Can't wait for it to get revived). There was no Author's Note promise of a great plot, though, but still...anyway, I get the general point you are trying to make, and yes, that's the kind of promise I'm talking about. Like this one author (Who shall remain unnamed) who, in response to comments about his chapters being too short, promised to do something about it only to provide even shorter and sloppier chapters instead. -.-

Orange_Flaaffy said:
I also helps if you don't get into that habit becuase college English teachers can smell it a mile away and it is not good in essay writing. For the love of pika, use words you can actually understandand know how to use and not just words you pulled out of a book to have people crowd around you (ontheSforums *cough*) saying "OMG you are sooo smart and your writing is sooo deep!"
Click to expand...

Now if there is one subject I've always had good teachers in its English (Thank goodness for that), and yes...I could definitely picture my teachers (One moved to a different country, though) marking down an essay for using words without appreciating their meaning. *Laugh* You should have heard my former teacher tearing into a Dan Brown exctract for that. Downright brutal, it was, and I sure feel lucky that I've never had the need to pretend knowing words *Is one of the people who actually use both dictionary and thesaurus*. Even with the jargon above I do know what I said. ^^ The false depth becomes even clearer in metaphora and similes. At a quick glance it looks all deep and poetic, but once you stop to think on them for a moment you'll find that they make no sense whatsoever.
 
Alter Ego said:
Actually, you said, and I quote "you don't want to talk down to your randmaking it less enjoyable to read, provided that you do it right. :O I still maintain that
Click to expand...
Okay, you can maintain that, I don't really want to debate that much anyway ;). The world won't come to an end if we don't see eye to eye :) I think my thing is that I have a learning disablity and certain wording just means different things from my background of dealing with them :)


Actually, age isn't really an accurate measure of reading skill. I've seen 13-year olds who's language using and comprehension skills far exceeding those of certain other people aged 18+, it's all a matter of education, really. This being the case, I just try to write in terms I understand and go with the assumption that anyone with enough interest to read what I write must also have developed enough skills to comprehend what they read. Oh well, to each their own...both views and audiences. ^-^
Click to expand...
I had a junior in college reading comprehension when I was in 7th grade ;). Still I know that by far I am not the norm and well..Maybe I just feel for people with less skill, I want them to have just as an enjoyable time because I know how had things are for people with troubles in reading, writing or math. You can't just hit them over the head with high level things and say "Oh, if they really what to learn to enjoy such and such story they just need to try harder."
That's why I like a nice medium in my writing, not that I go out of my way to write that way, but my style does have the ghost of all the ways I learned reading starting out in special ed classes, summer school etc in it :).
Simple writing does not breed life long simple readers..It least it did'nt with my generation, I don't know about the next...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will have a new chapter of Fable done by the end of this month :) . Now that I have a laptop things should be easier :) . One of my aunts, whose nursing years helped me really start to think of having a story starring a Nurse Joy, has gotten very sick and can no longer feed herself and is getting worst all the time...
In some small way, me making this story the best it can be makes me feel better :cry:
 
Last edited:
The problem with thesaurus is that the thesaurus will never explain both denotation and connotation... People think that oh if the denotation is right, then the conotation is tossed out the window and ignored... which doesn't work. You really need to have both of them correct. Sometimes, the simple words are the best ones available.
Click to expand...

I very much agree there. Sometimes you can choose a word that sounds all big and pretty but it just does not fit into the sentence at all. I personally use thesaurus.com as a guide to help me find the word that I'm looking for, not look for a better word.
 
I don't use a thesaurus or a dictionary. Maybe I should.

Char: No duh, ACC.

ACC: I thought you were attempting to save us all from oncoming missiles in my fanfic!

Char: I was, but I came here instead because I didn't want to die.

ACC: Oh... then where's Eddie?

*miles away*

Eddie: AH! Help me! *runs from missiles*

ACC: Oh...

Well, with that in mind, I don't usually focus too much on words until after I've completed the story, and I want to change it. I want to focus more on plot and character development now that I'm a fairly new writer, and try my hand at various styles. So yeah, I'm neutral on the whole Thesaurus thing, but as a reviewer I hate people who seem to use it to eliminate basic language. They sound like they're using wolfspeak (and half the time, they are. I'm fairly sure that "orbs" is not synomous with "eyes". 0_o)
 
I don't use a dictionary, mostly becuase my spelling is so awful I can't find most words by their first two letters anyway. It's funny, you're suppose to use a dictionary to find out how to spell something but you have to basicly know how to spell it before you do *lol* :)
 
Art_Critic_Cubone said:
Oh dear. That is a problem... with that in mind, it's a wonder you can spell at all! Well, thanks be to God for the invention of the computer, eh?
Click to expand...
I'm lucky I'm stubborn ;). Or my learning disablity would have won a long time ago :P. But English final essaies are awful for me, being forced to write on paper and not spelling well enough to even find certain words on a handheld spell checker :(.
 
Oh, that is bad. But I can say that you definitely know how to write plot, even if you can't spell a thing. Which brings to mind a question that has been plaguing me for ages- are proper grammar and spelling more important then plot or description? Feel free to comment.
 
*hee* Thank you :). Once my college english teacher sat with me for a hour editting my spelling so that I did not lose a whole grade and not past the class over the final.:) I've always liked teachers, they can tell I really am trying.
I do think plot is more important but the thing is if not one can understand it then the best plot can never get read :(. I've been told over and over by teachers I could be published by now if not for my spelling *sigh*
 
That's why you need proofreaders and editors, especially if you have problems sorting out your own grammar and spelling. You should have someone sit with you to sort that out before you send your work to an agent, if that's what you want to do.
 
Oh, I know the whole system of publishing :). I've read so many books and magazines on the subject I just think I have gotten a bit disheartened over my real chances at being published...But if you never try I guess you never really know;).
I actually don't have troubles with grammar, I know what many words mean, just not how to spell them :P.
 
*pokes around* I wonder if anyone notice how Frosty disappeared again...

Yeah, college resumed so I won't be here until Feb 17-23 or so, which is my one week break. ^^; So, until then... :D Try to keep the lounge alive!
 
Frostweaver said:
*pokes around* I wonder if anyone notice how Frosty disappeared again...

Yeah, college resumed so I won't be here until Feb 17-23 or so, which is my one week break. ^^; So, until then... :D Try to keep the lounge alive!
Click to expand...

Of course we always miss you :). I think it is pretty alive and well here:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top