4th Gen Flash, Defog?

Luigi-San said:
Here's what I would do:

  • Keep the TM and HM lists the same as they are in D\P\Pt.
  • The whirlpools would be removed and replaced with Rock Climb-able walls.
  • The Elder in Sprout Tower would give you the Defog HM.
  • When you defeat Team Rocket in Mahogany Town, Lance would give you the Rock Climb HM.
  • The Zephyr Badge would allow you to use Defog outside of battle.
  • The Mineral Badge would allow you to use Rock Smash outside of battle.
  • The Glacier Badge would allow you to use Rock Climb outside of battle.
  • The Flash TM can be purchasable in Goldenrod City.
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I've got a better idea: keep all of the pointless HMs like Rock Climb and Defog out, keep the whirlpools, and don't mess with Lugia.
 
Well, there could still be a way to keep whirlpools around the Islands and insert Rock Climb as the way to get there. Whirlpools could just be like immovable objects and you could Surf around them, but then to get to the actual Whirl Island, you could be forced to climb up a rock wall once you reach land in order to get to the caves and such in the Island.

I'm not saying I'd want it that way, but it's a possibility. I'd rather they just left it with the same HM's as the old GSC, though.
 
Well, whirlpool will stay as a HM, like someone may have already said that it would be pointless having a whirl islands if there where no whirlpools. But in a way they would have to keep rock climb or defog as a hm, so when if a pokemon is traded to hg/ss from dppt it isn't a incompatible move. In which case they dont have whirlpool or rock climb as HM07, maybe dive as that would fit in with lugias storyline
 
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It would be nice if Flash and Defog weren't HMs, but it's unlikely (and, if not those two, some other weaker move). I usually only travel with 4/5 Pokémon anyway, keeping the other two spots open for HM Slaves. :P I think it's just part of the challenge - incorporating solutions to the environmental challenges in your team's move, at the cost of power (with the notable exception of Surf).
 
25cricket25 said:
Well, whirlpool will stay as a HM, like someone may have already said that it would be pointless having a whirl islands if there where no whirlpools. But in a way they would have to keep rock climb or defog as a tm, so when if a pokemon is traded to hg/ss from dppt it isn't a random move. In which case they dont have whirlppol or rock climb as HM07, maybe dive as that would fit in with lugias storyline
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I would only hope for Whirlpool to come back as an HM to keep the whole concept of using it through the Whirl Islands. However, if not and still kept as Move Tutor available, then it can still work but not everyone will have the capabilities of doing it if they do not fulfill the requirements that each Move Tutor may have.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't necessarily say that Rock Climb or Defog will be a TM in the remakes though. The idea of this happening will mess up the Cross Compatability with DPPt. So, rather it may be utilized through another Move Tutor, like Dive from DPPt, to keep the move available to players if needed. Also, like said Flash will stay as a TM.
 
Well, the only reason to not change it would be to stay true (or true-er I guess) to the originals :P. Since HM's aren't tradeable and all the moves' coding already exists in DPPt, there aren't any incompatability issues no matter which way they choose, and like I said before, they could still change around the land and keep the story the same.

But why would the developers want to change so much around? They could just keep the HM's all the same (or similar if they wanted to add Rock Smash as an HM, switch Defog for Flash/delete it, etc, but not change too much and still keep Whirlpool) since there's no compatibility issues and it might be more work for them to try and use DPPt's HM's and still make the storyline fit and stuff. It'd probably just be easier to leave Whirlpool as an HM and leave the other HM's at the same spot in the storyline as the original GSC.
 
The use of HMs and TMs have no importance to the storyline of the game, that is what thing a lot of people keep referring to. The use of HMs are to raise the difficulty of the game as an obstacle the player must go through. For example, when adding the thick fog within DPPt it was a bit harder than going through the darkness of a cave; a basic obstacle a player must get through during travel not to get through the storyline of the game.

However, you cannot add in or switch any of the TMs around because of Cross Compatibility with HeartGold, SoulSilver and DPPt. What we have in DPPt as far as TMs will remain the same for the remakes. However, like said so many times HMs aren't tradable and can be fixed to suit the game. It isn't hard at all to add in extra rocks to smash into one area. Actually, as far as we know, for at least Mt. Silver and the relation it may have to Arceus, this may be an extra place of importance to take use of certain HMs. So, adding in newer landscape and raising the importance of an HM and certain TMs can be utilized, but it wouldn't be put in a way where it doesn't match that of DPPt.
 
It's not really that hard, just keep the original HM's from GSC, flash cant be traded because it would be a HM, it would mean that rock climb and defog would only be obtainable through a move tutor or through DPPt but to be honest who really gives a dam about them anyway, its really not as complicated as some of you are making it.
 
They'll introduce whirlpool back but maybe have rockclimb as a TM for the sake of it.Defog could be put into use if they fog up the whirlpool islands,but i see the original G/S HM's all coming back ..
 
kellogs said:
They'll introduce whirlpool back but maybe have rockclimb as a TM for the sake of it.Defog could be put into use if they fog up the whirlpool islands,but i see the original G/S HM's all coming back ..
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They can't do that because of compatibility issues. Why do people think that rock climb and Defog will be in the game, was Whirlpool or Dive used in any other game.
 
zirico said:
It's not really that hard, just keep the original HM's from GSC, flash cant be traded because it would be a HM, it would mean that rock climb and defog would only be obtainable through a move tutor or through DPPt but to be honest who really gives a dam about them anyway, its really not as complicated as some of you are making it.
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kellogs said:
They'll introduce whirlpool back but maybe have rockclimb as a TM for the sake of it.Defog could be put into use if they fog up the whirlpool islands,but i see the original G/S HM's all coming back ..
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Okay, like Hiroshi mentioned, the games won't be exactly a 1:1 ratio as the originals. There will be changes to the remakes other than just new features. Before when FRLG came out there wasn't as many changes within the Pokémon games, until DPPt came out. This is when things became more complex than what they were a few years ago. A lot of you say it isn't hard, but if you think about what you may say, such as make Rock Climb a TM, then you are making it more complex than it is.

For one, and I don't know how many times this has been stated before but HM Flash will not make a return, as DPPt has already made it TM for the games. Seeing as the remakes and DPPt are all compatible, this only reasons why Flash won't be brought back as an HM. Also, the idea of making Rock Climb a TM won't work because again, when it comes to trading in DPPt Rock Climb is known as an HM. So, if Rock Climb happens to not be brought in as an HM for the remakes, then it'll be available through a Move Tutor just like how Dive was made in DPPt.

Also, Whirlpool, this can easily be made an HM. There will be no trading so cross compatibility will not be a problem. However, Defog can easily replace HM Flash's position as it won't be difficult to replace the black cave areas to be filled with fog. Yes, it may be a useless move to teach a Pokémon, but it is used for the difficulty of obstacles within the game. As for the other HMs, it isn't hard to make Rock Smash more of a vital move than before and it isn't hard to accomplish the other HM's uses either. However, as it goes for Defog and Flash, it is simple enough to keep Flash a TM like in DPPt and still have little use of it; while all the less, it is still possible to replace the dark areas and fill it for fog to take use of the HM Defog. Nothing is ever complicated unless you break it down and look at all your options and what you know can and can't work.
 
i fail to see why you quoted me, you basically agreed with what i said but then added that rock climb could be made a TM when it does not need to be. Flash is the only HM that may be changed in the remakes from the originals.
 
zirico said:
i fail to see why you quoted me, you basically agreed with what i said but then added that rock climb could be made a TM when it does not need to be. Flash is the only HM that may be changed in the remakes from the originals.
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I only quoted you to show the difference in opinion. For instance, saying TM Flash will be kept just as it was in DPPt for the remakes is more than likely correct. As well as Rock Climb being available through a Move Tutor instead of the idea of it being a TM, which more than likely will not happen. So, yes you are right with the points you made I agreed, but I used it for clarification on my thought for the HMs and TMs such as Defog, Flash, and Rock Climb.

However, others do try to make the idea of it very complex when it really isn't when broken down; something I specified earlier before.
 
You guys have been talking about flash and defog,not to mention rockclimb too but what about WHIRLPOOL
 
for all you know there could be 10 hms :/ or even 9 while one gym could allow you to use 2 hms or after fighting the league can you use a hm?
 
I can 99.9% guarantee you that:

- Whirlpool will be in as a new HM
- Rock Climb, Defog and Dive will not be included in HG/SS
- Flash will go back to an HM.
 
Eggie Poo Poo said:
I can 99.9% guarantee you that:

- Whirlpool will be in as a new HM
- Rock Climb, Defog and Dive will not be included in HG/SS
- Flash will go back to an HM.
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I don't think any one can guarantee anything about the HM set up as nothing has been told. However, Flash becoming an HM, like said so many times will more than likely not happen. If you want to know why, it is only because DPPt made it a TM in their game play. So, because of Cross Compatibility and the option to trade held TMs, HGSS cannot have Flash as an HM. Therefore, it being a TM in these remakes is probably the best thing anyone can guarantee.

As for Defog, that will more than likely replace Flash's spot as being an HM. Seeing it is more of a field move rather than something to be used in battle, it won't be hard to replace darkness with a layer of thick fog. As for the idea on Rock Climb, it may happen if Game Freak simply adds in a few areas of higher levels. However, because HMs are not tradable items and DPPt have no coding for Whirlpool being a TM, I can see Rock Climb being replaced by HM Whirlpool for its need in the game. Other than this, I see no really basic changes as Hiroshi has gotten the basic idea laid down.
 
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