Garchomp is soon to be an... UBer? O_O;

[Magmortified]

Right, Garchomp is Sinnoh's equivilent to Dragonite. If you disagree with me, just dont post a reply.

So... you don't want to promote healthy discussion like a forum should be doing? ._.

Grachomp can be taken down with Ice moves as many people have posted but what about Dragon moves??

You mean the moves that are usually on Dragon type Pokemon that are also weak to Garchomp's Dragon moves? Garchomp also being the fastest Dragon in the game?

These are super effective against Garchomp so to counter it why not use a Dialga or Palkia?

Switching Dialga into an EQ or Palkia into a Dragon move just doesn't seem to work out well. Hence why they're not counters (counters being something that can safely switch in and force Garchomp to switch out).

Also, you'd think Garchomp seems pretty broken in OU if you have to use other Ubers to counter it.

 

[airconditioning]

If people keep moving good Pokemon to Ubers, then we'll eventually all be stuck with Butterfrees... But only if you haven't taught it Psychic.

No, you retard. Banning one Pokemon will not suddenly put every other on the queue for Uber status. I and others have been saying this throughout the entire thread.

EDIT: I think the "lack of counters" argument is BS. If you know how to do it, you can take him out with a Skarmory.

Skarmory? Skarmory, who can't do a damn thing to Garchomp, against a Pokemon who usually carries Fire Fang or Fire Blast?

Right, Garchomp is Sinnoh's equivilent to Dragonite. If you disagree with me, just dont post a reply.

Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit are Sinnoh's equivalent to Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres. If you disagree with me, just don't post a reply.

Your point? That's not only common knowledge, but also completely irrelevant.

Grachomp can be taken down with Ice moves as many people have posted but what about Dragon moves??

Dragon moves are only 2x effective, as opposed to Ice's 4x effective. Plus, very few Pokemon learn good Dragon moves- especially compared to the large pool of Pokemon with Ice Beam and HP Ice.

These are super effective against Garchomp so to counter it why not use a Dialga or Palkia?

Because those are Uber. If I need to use those Pokemon to counter Garchomp, then that only proves even more that Garchomp should be banned. :/

If you dont have one of these 2 Pokemon (if you dont you are insane) go to Granny Wilma's House in between Celestic Town and Solaceon Town and learn Draco Meteor, the most powerful Dragon-type move.

Give it to who? There are, like, three non-Ubers besides Garchomp who can actually learn Draco Meteor- and Garchomp outspeeds all of them. :/

 

[ABYAY]

and AC strikes again as being one awesome null argument cleaner, and also done in a humorous way. Go AC!

Since revenging Garchomp isn't always possible (if you commonly use slow n' bulky teams as myself most of the time), sometimes you have to resort to something like this

Cresselia@Leftovers
Bold
252HP/252def/6sp.def (or sp.atk)

Ice Beam
Psychic
Reflect
Rest

I have to use THAT to "counter" Garchomp. Normally those HP EVs would be stacked into sp.atk to hit 269, which can OHKO Garchomp. However, the common increase in the Yache Berry makes the 269 argument null and void most of the time. I'm unsure if it can survive being 2HKO'd by Outrage though (with CB) However, it handles Scarf versions pretty easily (and SD if they're dumb enough to Outrage after one SD, in which I reflect)

That above is one key known as overcentrilization. If I go with a more standard set, then Cressy gets smashed most of the time...well, it can stop other Dragons and such, but meh. Special attackers can hit it pretty rough too seeing as I have no sp.def EV investment.

But anyway, Garchomp is a very big threat to the common metagame, and it is causing some overcentrilization. I'm not going to side with anyone in saying it should move to Ubers or stay in OU though...I don't use it (for I am not a noob), so it will only benefit me if it's shoved into Ubers.

 

[.]

If people keep moving good Pokemon to Ubers, then we'll eventually all be stuck with Butterfrees... But only if you haven't taught it Psychic.

EDIT: I think the "lack of counters" argument is BS. If you know how to do it, you can take him out with a Skarmory.

Skarmory gets raped by SD Boosted Fire Fang or one-shotted by Fire Blast. You probably know crap about competative battling, thus I'd advise you to not post again.

Right, Garchomp is Sinnoh's equivilent to Dragonite. If you disagree with me, just dont post a reply.

Why? If you make a post, expect others to counter-post it.

Grachomp can be taken down with Ice moves as many people have posted but what about Dragon moves??

Pokes that use dragon moves are either part dragon (in which Garchomp's own Outrage OHKO's it) or are not dragon type, in which it will be unSTABBED thus weaker, ineffective to OHKO Chomp.

These are super effective against Garchomp so to counter it why not use a Dialga or Palkia?

Because they are ubers moron. If we have to use ubers to beat Garchomp, then it's obvious Garchomp SHOULD BE AN UBER.

If you dont have one of these 2 Pokemon (if you dont you are insane) go to Granny Wilma's House in between Celestic Town and Solaceon Town and learn Draco Meteor, the most powerful Dragon-type move.

/FACEPALM

Frankly, I think Garchomp is one of the best in the game and if you think otherwise, you are CRAZY! :D

You know, from the weak argument you presented, my opinion of Garchomp plummeted, Garchomp for UU.

Of course, Plume is allergic to Heart Scale.

But lets pretend Cloyster beats Chomp *giggle*. Well, how does it (& FRACKIN DEWGONG) stack up in the rest of the OU metagame? Should every team use those two just to beat Chomp? As TS said, overwhatchamacallit.

I'd use Cloyster as a 100% Garchomp counter (lol) Doesn't mean everyone else has to use it.

I feel that the only "safe" way to kill Chomp is revenge killing, which is easily thrawted by switching out, Yache Berry, Scarf, and Sand Veil.

 

[Anti]

First of all, only Chain Chomp (lol) is going to be OHKOing Skarmory, and losing coverage against Bronzong (whop is very popular) would be foolish. Skarmory does well against the Choiced sets and really anything can take Fire Fang. Skarmory can't counter SDchomp, but it makes a pretty good initial switch into it.

Also, how is revenge killing Garchomp thwarted by Choice Scarf? You can always Ice Shard it or better yet wall it, considering Scarfchomp is easily walled. Yache Berry almost never has an effect on your ability to revenge kill it since you can usually break its berry or just attack it with something else in the rare event that it isn't (for example Scarfchomp).

About having to use Cresselia to counter Garchomp being over centralization ABYAY...husk and ipl both got to number one without using Cresselia, or even having a decent switch-in on it. Clearly you don't need to carry a counter to beat Garchomp, otherwise these teams would have fallen to Garchomp (who is used on many many teams) and thus fallen out of the top spot and probably a lot farther than that.

Think of it this way...do you think people would use Tantacruel as much if it didn't counter MixApe? Cresselia's greatest asset is its ability to counter dragons - using it to do just that isn't over centralization.

I remember Aquilae saying once that the definition of counter is practically obsolete, and besides stall and defensive teams (which are very rare), I agree with him 100% (and if you didn't say that or I messed up the context, my apologies). The metagame is heavy offense right now...it's tough to deny that. So what I'm saying is why should it matter if Garchomp doesn't have counters? If you want to play the stall teams token, I'll just say this. I have experience with defensive teams since they're my favorite (and to a lesser extent full stall). You have access to Cresselia, who counters most dragons very handily. If it's CBchomp and it wants to use Outrage, great, I'll just use it as set-up bait so my Skarmory can set up Spikes or so my Bronzong can Sleep it. There are other CBers that are difficult to counter to, like Gallade. If you have Spiritomb, awesome, but otherwise you'll just have to outpredict. As for the Outraging Yachechomp, would it really kill stall teams to carry an extra counter? I don't think so. Garchomp also might have to contend with Toxic Spikes damage and Spikes damage. I mean, stall teams can take care of Garchomp with two pokemon at most.

Also I really don't think Sand Veil should be in the discussion, unless maybe it's totally 50/50 and the decision needs to be swayed one way or the other. Okay, so the people who complain about Sand Veil say "any one of Garchomp's counters could miss and that could cost you the game." Excellent. Okay, so using that very logic, let's take SD Gliscor. any one of Gliscor's counters could miss, and it could cost you the game. so should we ban Gliscor? Yeah, Garchomp is more powerful, I know. Still, after +6 attack Gliscor looks pretty uber to me. You that that won't happen? Well it could happen.

What I'm saying is that it's all so hypothetical that it really is just a shaky argument. You could miss Mamoswine in the hail 10 straight times and it could sweep your team. That doesn't make Mamoswine uber.

 

[ΜσdαΜϑrdεrεr]

Well, that's good news for me. In all honesty Garchomp doesn't belong in OU, so it has to go to Ubers. Garchomp is incredibly hard to counter especially in the common sandstorm that T-tar brings, he's also very bulky making him hard to take down and/or counter. Garchomp's speed isn't excellent but his bulkiness/ability/sheer power more than make up for this.

 

[sims796]

Also I really don't think Sand Veil should be in the discussion, unless maybe it's totally 50/50 and the decision needs to be swayed one way or the other. Okay, so the people who complain about Sand Veil say "any one of Garchomp's counters could miss and that could cost you the game." Excellent. Okay, so using that very logic, let's take SD Gliscor. any one of Gliscor's counters could miss, and it could cost you the game. so should we ban Gliscor? Yeah, Garchomp is more powerful, I know. Still, after +6 attack Gliscor looks pretty uber to me. You that that won't happen? Well it could happen.

What I'm saying is that it's all so hypothetical that it really is just a shaky argument. You could miss Mamoswine in the hail 10 straight times and it could sweep your team. That doesn't make Mamoswine uber.

All that was TL;DR. Cept that.

Well, that must be taken into arguement, because they aren' nearly as dangerous in Sandstorm as Chomp. You yourself said that in a past Chomp disscusion thread. It's only mentioned because others most likely lost because their counters missed. From a guy who missed 3 Focus Blast in a row, I don't mind him gone. Yeah, it's my own fault, but still annoying :/

My reasoning, and my reasoning alone, as to why I don't mind him banned? He limits my choice of playable pokemon. Just my totally bias opinion. I blame both a mix of his HP & speed.

 

[Romo_Owens]

Well dude you have to realize that a Ice attack has a big potential to put it out of commission. o-o; I don't personally use a Garchomp but I know that if this keeps up they will definitely Uberfy Mence. (Which I do use... >.<; ) I also don't understand why they do it to Chomp... and not to Cresselia or Milotic D: Cresselia has Moonlight and Rest (Lum Berry is abuse...), Milotic has Marvel Scale, Recover AND Hypnosis. o-o; I see a really big thing there.

I also see this happening to Metagross. o-o;

Salamence will not be put into uber. It's not good enough. Sure it's a force but Garchomp is just hands down a better sweeper. Salamence is forever an OU. Same with Metagross. Milotic and Cresselia- I use a Milotic which I believe is BL and yes it's good but Blissey is better as a special wall. The list goes on but Garchomp is just legitametly a strong pokemon which is a bit too strong for OU.
Now as far as the issue goes, I checked out that smogon post a while back and people seem to think that Garchomp will be blow to you-know-what if it goes. I can't agree. Sure the defenses there are stronger, attacks make Garchomps base 130 look like childs play and thanks to our friends Kyogre, Groudon and Rayquaza, Sand Veil is useless, it will do fine. As you said, a heck of a lot of people use Garchomp. And since it's as a titanic force as it is, people have come to put counters on their team specifically for it whether it be Bronzong, Swampert, Cresselia, Hippowdon (yours truly) etc. Also, Ice attacks are rampant as hell in OU, but aren't really seen in Uber. Garcomp's faster than most ubers, and the only real counters to it will be Lugia and to a lesser extent Giratina. I still hope it doesn't happen or I have a new Physical sweeper slot to fill on my team.

 

[Samson]

they should've given garchomp a different ability. so many people lose out of the occurrence that the final blow to a chomp misses. i don't have a problem against the overpowered SDyache chomp set, it's just that friggin ability.

stupid gamefreak. sometimes i feel like stalking their mothers and leaving threatening messages on their answering machines.

EDIT: btw, this is the second or third time smogon has made a large effort to settle the garchomp issue. simply this: garchomp is too good for OU but way too stank for uber. maybe they should make a HBL (higher border line). that way, garchomp can be in its own tier shoving the finger at lati@s.

 

[Ársa]

PCB&RG Members -

I propose we leave this thread. It is obvious that we cannot strike up a decent conversation/argument here, and even doing so is really a hopeless clause. Move this to the Guild and discuss there, behind closed walls. (so to speak)

~T_S

 

[Beginnings]

Well, I disagree with the decision, I think this is going in the direction of the "Skarm/Bliss Clause": made for people who can't handle Chompers in OU I mean if you're thinking that way, you might as well ban Deoxys-S/MixApe because they both can rape teams just the way Garchomp can. So I guess either make a seperate ladder as Smogon has, or add a "Chomp Clause"

 

[Magmortified]

I'm agreeing with TS. I'm seeing the same arguments over and over again. There's only so many times you can say, "It does not go like that, it goes like this."

 

[shedinjask]

maybe they should make a HBL (higher border line). that way, garchomp can be in its own tier shoving the finger at lati@s.

No, Ubers is to OU as BL is to UU. Ubers is a BL tier, a faux, unbalanced tier not meant to be played.

I mean if you're thinking that way, you might as well ban Deoxys-S/MixApe because they both can rape teams just the way Garchomp can.

Spiritomb, Metagross, Jirachi deal with Deoxys-S and Tentacruel and Vaporeon have Mixape. 100% counters, barring crits. How do they compare to Garchomp?

 

[Samson]

l2sarcasm ._.

and it's not that BL is not meant to be played, it's simply a matter that BL should not be played in UU.

 

[Smarties-chan]

Since this topic is getting out of hand and has turned into a Garchomp tier debate (yes, I know I'm guilty to this myself) and there is a much more well-thought out Garchomp debate posted, I will lock this topic now.