gender is weird

[poopnoodle]

being a girl, sometimes i dont think i fit the appearance, if you will, to undertake certain tasks and prefer certain things. i realize there are some things that set men and women apart, i just don't like the superficiality of it all and how society lets sexual stereotypes define the individual. what do you think about gender identity, its state and where its headed?

edit: i'll just quote myself here because some don't seem to be understanding what i'm asking.

i'll put it in simpler terms. gender roles have, more or less, destroyed the individual in a way. not that i'm complaining because it is what it is, i'm just curious about people's stance on the matter, how it affects them, and if they're seeing progress in terms of society's ability to see past the surface of a person.

and no one needs to tl;dr the differences between men and women, because as i've stated, i'm quite aware. i'm not asking anything about equality.

sorry for any misunderstandings in the way i've worded things, i can't say i'm the most eloquent speaker xD

 

[Åzurε]

Well, it stands that due to mental and physical differences, men are different than women, and as such they've developed different roles and general characteristics over the past millennia. Naturally there are, have been, and will be exceptions. I think it would be better to simply acknowledge these exceptions rather than make a big fat hairy deal about it. Here's looking at you, feminism.

As for society stereotyping a person, leave the media to their own devices. They can't actually change you unless you accept the stereotype as truth.

 

[poopnoodle]

Men =/= Women.

i'm aware of this and noted my awareness, thank you.

i'll put it in simpler terms. gender roles have, more or less, destroyed the individual in a way. not that i'm complaining because it is what it is, i'm just curious about people's stance on the matter, how it affects them, and if they're seeing progress in terms of society's ability to see past the surface of a person.

 

[Dawn]

I'm trying to think of a time when gender roles didn't exist. It's not working.

I'm now trying to think of a time when Individuality has been overlooked by intelligent people. It's not working very well either.

Finally, I'm trying to think of any reason gender roles have anymore power than any other form of generalization. Yeah... not working either.

Conclusion? Shallow morons will be shallow morons. If it isn't "gender roles" it will be something else.

That's what I think.

 

[Esper]

A little while back I read a news article (more of an opinion piece, really) that said society is moving closer to a state of androgyny where people more frequently interact with each other regardless of gender and there is no "mystery" among the sexes. The person who wrote this thought it was a bad thing. I think it's wonderful. I'm going to a wedding tomorrow and the bride has only one bridesmaid but several bridesmen (or whatever the term is) because they're the people she's closest to. I think it's awesome that she doesn't see anything weird with that.

 

[mr. ck]

I'm trying to think of a time when gender roles didn't exist. It's not working.

I'm now trying to think of a time when Individuality has been overlooked by intelligent people. It's not working very well either.

Finally, I'm trying to think of any reason gender roles have anymore power than any other form of generalization. Yeah... not working either.

Conclusion? Shallow morons will be shallow morons. If it isn't "gender roles" it will be something else.

That's what I think.

I have to agree to this.

Gender stereotypes are disappearing now. But you can't do anything about ignorant and uneducated people.
Gender differences are still differences, I mean, if somebody does say that you can't beat a guy up as a girl, there's nothing wrong, because that's the way a girl is meant to be.
I know, there are exceptions, but it's just an example.
However, for other things, being biased is completely wrong.

 

[TwinkleClefable]

I don't think sexism is clearing that much =\, well fortunatly this website shows no sexism which is great! ^.^ It shows i can be a idiotic, selfish, moron until i get banned! Which won't happen, cuz i'm too cool 4 that.

This thread sounds like it's gonna turn into a huge debate though..=/, everybody has suffered from sexism, poopnoodle, the state gender equality is in..uh..it's good on this website like i said before ^-^, if you've got any problems, just tell me noodle, and i will sought those -???- right out!

Don't Worry, be happy. ^___^

 

[Imperfect]

There are differences in tastes, physical differences and all that but for the most part, I don't really worry about all that.

I just do what I feel is right when it feels right, it's the best way to work I think.

Each to their own when it comes to sexuality, to some it's rigid, to some it's more fluid, it pretty much depends on the individual.

I have my own tastes but don't really want to get into all that here.

 

[Cruelty And The Beast]

There's a difference between sex and gender. Sex is biological and it's basically what hormones/sexual organs/physical shape you have etc. But gender is different, it is a social construction. Humans are naturally androgynous but we learn gender roles through early Socialisation. As rational creatures, we need to overcome gender more than we have.

 

[Åzurε]

There's a difference between sex and gender. Sex is biological and it's basically what hormones/sexual organs/physical shape you have etc. But gender is different, it is a social construction. Humans are naturally androgynous but we learn gender roles through early Socialisation. As rational creatures, we need to overcome gender more than we have.

You had me up until "humans are naturally androgynous".
I'd say humans are naturally male or female. It goes past physical appearance- it's a part of a person's mind. Rather than androgynous, humans are naturally malleable at birth. The influences of human interaction apply quickly, leaving us with little information about the state of our minds at birth.

However, all of this is really rather irrelevant. I need it to be clearly seen. If what you claim is true, I'll wait and see if people who share that view raise their children in a way that results in a person observing that it's true. Social androgyny, rather than simply encouraged to be bisexual or anything like that.

 

[Timbjerr]

As a man...a manly man with a muscular build and epic facial hair...I've rarely felt looked down upon because of traditional gender roles. :D

Seriously, the way I see gender roles, it's more intrapersonal more than interpersonal. I accepted many facets of the traditional male gender role not because it was forced on me, but rather because they fell under my interests and became things that make me feel good regardless. Societal gender roles are are so specific and far-reaching that it'd be impossible for you to fit in perfectly or be a perfect misfit. You're always gonna have some facet of your gender stereotype whether you want to or both and nobody can really judge you for it. XD

 

[Dawn]

There's a difference between sex and gender.

Actually, assuming sex is the biological female or male status of someone, they're complete synonyms.

Sex is biological and it's basically what hormones/sexual organs/physical shape you have etc. But gender is different, it is a social construction.

I'm having difficulty understanding your argument, mainly because you're not using the correct word for whatever gender is supposed to be. ._.;;

Humans are naturally androgynous but we learn gender roles through early Socialisation

No we aren't. ._. Humans naturally have very clearly defined genders that very naturally play a role in our lives.

 

[lx_theo]

Actually, assuming sex is the biological female or male status of someone, they're complete synonyms.

Well, not entirely. Yes, sex is a biological state of the physical body, but gender deals with your mentality. Have you ever heard of those people who are one gender stuck in the other's body? Its like that. Gender is the mental state and sex is the physical state.

 

[ORegan]

I'm gonna agree with Yellow here. Men and women are born differently by physically, and mentally, with different instincts and roles that went with them. While the latter two have declined in usage, it's still portrayed in the animal kingdom, especially among pack animals.

Pysically, men are usually taller and stronger *key word is usually, so don't kill me femnazis :P*, which were traits used to protect the family. In modern times, the instinct to protect became the intinct to protect finiancially, hence the term 'man of the house' and all that jazz. Men's larger builds have also made them more common of a sight to see in hard labor jobs than women.

Women are usually more delicate and gentle, in both manifestations. Women, being the ones that give birth, are naturally more nurturing. In the times before baby formula, an infant would not survive without its mother or another female that can breastfeed. Women also have more delicate and smaller hands, allowing better percision and there are many jobs in todays world, such as dentists.

Granted, there are ALWAYS exceptions to the above, but I'm talking in a more generalized manner

 

[SkyAngel]

I don't wanna feel ignorant or stupid, despite not understanding a good deal of what has been said above, but what I have seen in the short sixteen years of my life is that there are people who believe men are superior and women aren't, that women are superior and men aren't, and that men and women are equal. If we're talking about physical build, then it seems like men just naturally become more muscular, etc. as they get older (before becoming old men, I mean) and women are built more towards beauty then physical strength. I'm not being sexist, I'm just saying what I've seen. If you wanna go all Darwinism on me, okay, then wouldn't that be that a long time ago, men were the protectors, hence their strengths, and women were beautiful to attract men to protect them, start a family, hence their beauty, etc.? Personally, I don't believe that the world has been around millions upon millions of years, since there's no concrete proof of that, in fact, there's proof that says otherwise. But anyway, that was what I've seen about men and women physically. Mentally, they seem equal, some would even say women are smarter ( :P ) but I wouldn't know if that's true or not, at school you have guys and girls getting all A's, it doesn't seem like genius has a gender preference. Socially, maybe the reason why you see more guy construction workers then girl construction workers is because men have a build that is more compatible with heavy work? Of course there are exceptions.

 

[lx_theo]

I don't wanna feel ignorant or stupid, despite not understanding a good deal of what has been said above, but what I have seen in the short sixteen years of my life is that there are people who believe men are superior and women aren't, that women are superior and men aren't, and that men and women are equal. If we're talking about physical build, then it seems like men just naturally become more muscular, etc. as they get older (before becoming old men, I mean) and women are built more towards beauty then physical strength. I'm not being sexist, I'm just saying what I've seen. If you wanna go all Darwinism on me, okay, then wouldn't that be that a long time ago, men were the protectors, hence their strengths, and women were beautiful to attract men to protect them, start a family, hence their beauty, etc.? Personally, I don't believe that the world has been around millions upon millions of years, since there's no concrete proof of that, in fact, there's proof that says otherwise. But anyway, that was what I've seen about men and women physically. Mentally, they seem equal, some would even say women are smarter ( :P ) but I wouldn't know if that's true or not, at school you have guys and girls getting all A's, it doesn't seem like genius has a gender preference. Socially, maybe the reason why you see more guy construction workers then girl construction workers is because men have a build that is more compatible with heavy work? Of course there are exceptions.

I, for one, have never seen one shred of proof countering the current scientific standard for the Earth's age. But that's a different story.

But if you want to go "Darwinism", it would probably be more for women to be child characters, hence breasts, arms shaped perfectly for holding a baby, and a common tendency for a more gentile nature.

 

[EpsilonE]

being a girl, sometimes i dont think i fit the appearance, if you will, to undertake certain tasks and prefer certain things.

bad example

men have bigger dicks and muscles, girls mature faster and have bigger boobs

okay i've said my fair share

 

[poopnoodle]

i've edited the original post with this to prevent further misunderstandings of the topic, and here is just a reminder of what i'm asking.

i'll put it in simpler terms. gender roles have, more or less, destroyed the individual in a way. not that i'm complaining because it is what it is, i'm just curious about people's stance on the matter, how it affects them, and if they're seeing progress in terms of society's ability to see past the surface of a person.

and no one needs to tell me the differences between men and women, because as i've stated, i'm quite aware. i'm not asking anything about equality.

sorry for any misunderstanding because of the way i've worded things, i can't say i'm the most eloquent speaker xD

 

[lx_theo]

Destroyed the individual? Well gender roles have been around, at least from what we can tell, probably about as long as individuality. So if anything, those gender roles have weakened over the past many years.

Though I get your point. Gender roles push people into interests, development of personality and such rather than discovering life as an individual, at least that's how I interpreted it. An issue, maybe, but a serious one to the point that its destroying individuality, I don't think so.

 

[NiKaNoRoU]

I feel I'm not affected by gender role weakening at all. I think that there was a good reason gender roles were put, and I would really stumble upon a society that disrupts them.

Gender roles push people into interests, development of personality and such rather than discovering life as an individual, at least that's how I interpreted it.

That's utterly true. My character has so many different principles about genders, that I can make a list about it:

• I don't hit girls. No, this is not a gentleman's gesture, but rather a self-disgusted remain from when I hit one, and I felt so terrible that I swore never to do that again.
• On the other hand, I pick fights with boys. For ridiculous reasons. Then we make up after that. Still, I wouldn't do that with any girl.
• If I see a boy crying, well, I think a pat in the back or a 'cheer up mate', which I gladly do, will often suffice from me. Whereas, when I see a girl crying, I don't know what to do.
• I have another level of confidence against people of the same gender, I feel like they know me from before we talk, as we often share the same interests (joketelling, going to that gym in the upper part of the city, football taste, etc), while with the opposite gender I feel enclosed (not shy) to convey my feelings, like happiness or discontent.
• [General rule] When people are picking on a girl, it's a boy who will come to protect her, not a girl, and that. Won't. Change. Ever. (unless there are only girls around ^_^)

Tl;dr version: I don't treat girls equally as boys, and I'm not planning to. Because I made my personality like this, and I like this distinction of genders.