Help with a future D/P Team

[Shiny Umbreon]

I'm planning my 4th Gen Team, but I've got some problems. I have a missing slot and the last Pokémon (Umbreon) is not working well, so I need another moveset. Please rate my team and tell me what i'm missing.

Rotom@Wisdom Glasses
Levitate
Nature: Modest (+Sp. Atk -Atk)
EP: HP 48 / Sp Atk 252 / Speed 208
Moves:
Discharge
Shadow Ball
Confuse Ray
Double Team

Togekiss@King's Rock
Serene Grace
Nature: Timid (+Speed -Atk)
EP: Speed 252 / Sp. Atk 252 / Sp. Def 4
Moves:
Air Slash
Feather Rest
Scheme
Thunder Wave-For guys with a lot of speed

Weavile@Concentration Band
Pressure
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -Sp. Atk)
EP: Attack 252 / Speed 252 / Sp. Def 4
Moves:
Blade Test
Ice Punch
Swords Dance
Screech-I may change it as it's the same as Swords Dance

PorygonZ@Silk Scarf
Adaptive
Nature: Modest (+Sp. Atk -Atk)
EP: HP 4 /Sp. Atk 252 / Speed 252
Moves:
Tri Attack
Hyper Beam-Just in case, it would have 315 Power
Scheme
Recover

Umbreon@Focus Strip
Synchronize
Nature: Calm (+Sp. Def -Atk)
EP: HP 170 / Def 170 / Sp. Def 168
Rest
???
???
???

[Empty slot]

Umbreon is supposed to be a physical AND special tank, but I dont know what moves a tank should use. As it has a terrible Attack and Sp. Atk, I think it would be best to have Toxic. Now it would be more like an annoyer. It used to work well, but it needs something else because it doesn't affet Poison-types or POkémon wityh immunity, and Pokémon with natural cure and stuff are more common now. So what exactly does a tank need to have to do damage with its awful Atk?

Thanks in advance.

 

[pokelite5]

technically,you use spike,toxic or will-o-wisp

 

[Hippo]

Weavile@Concentration Band
Pressure
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -Sp. Atk)
EP: Attack 252 / Speed 252 / Sp. Def 4
Moves:
Blade Test
Ice Punch
Swords Dance
Screech-I may change it as it's the same as Swords Dance

I'd go with Swords Dance and sack Screech. Swords works after you KO a pokemon, or after they switch out. It keeps you going strong. Well i guess you can switch with screech to kill, but i'd go with swords dance, especially if you can find a move to replace it.

 

[Samson]

yeah i'd switch screech for something like brick break, scissor cross or poison stab.

rotom... if you really want him, sure, stick with him, but i'd suggest using a mumaaji instead. switch discharge for thunderbolt. there's no point... thunderbolt is stronger. i'd switch confuse ray for thunder wave, and if you want to keep confuse ray, switch thunder wave for double team.

i know you gave togekiss thunderwave... no. switch it for substitute. that right there would make the moveset more effective. with substitute and feather rest keeping it alive, extra moves will allow you + sp attack and use air slash for the flinch.

for porygon... i'd prefer you used tri attack instead, but choose either tri attack or hyper beam to keep, and replace the other with dark pulse.

i haven't trained an umbreon yet, but i'd suggest toxic, wish, substitute, and baton pass.

the empty slot... i dunno lol what do you like?

 

[Shiny Umbreon]

I'd go with Swords Dance and sack Screech. Swords works after you KO a pokemon, or after they switch out. It keeps you going strong. Well i guess you can switch with screech to kill, but i'd go with swords dance, especially if you can find a move to replace it.

yeah i'd switch screech for something like brick break, scissor cross or poison stab.

I was thinking of changing Screech because Swords Dance is better. I'm not sure, but Brick Break might be a good choice.

rotom... if you really want him, sure, stick with him, but i'd suggest using a mumaaji instead. switch discharge for thunderbolt. there's no point... thunderbolt is stronger. i'd switch confuse ray for thunder wave, and if you want to keep confuse ray, switch thunder wave for double team.

Muumage has better Sp. Attack, so It might be a better choice. It's just that it doesn't have Electric STAB. Rotom had two types so both Discharge and Shadowall were good. About Thunderbolt vs. Discharge, I chose Discharge because it's more likely to paralyze. I'd never use Thunder Wave because I think that's a turn lost. I prefer waiting a few turns with Discharge rather than doing a turn with no damage just to paralyze. I wasn't so sure about Double Team. I put it because of Rotom's low defense. But I wouldn't replace it for Thunder Wave.

i know you gave togekiss thunderwave... no. switch it for substitute. that right there would make the moveset more effective. with substitute and feather rest keeping it alive, extra moves will allow you + sp attack and use air slash for the flinch.

Scheme raises its Sp. Attack by two so I'll begin with that. If I'm losing, I'll use Feather Rest. I see no point in using Substitute (it hasn't worked well for me the times I've used it). Thunder Wave is supposed to be there just in case a quick Pokémon. If I'm slower, the flinch thing won't work.

for porygon... i'd prefer you used tri attack instead, but choose either tri attack or hyper beam to keep, and replace the other with dark pulse.

Nothing would survive an Hyper Beam of porygon, but it may be good to replace it for the turn loss. Dark Pulse is a good option, but I think Psychic is better because it's more powerful and decreases Sp. Def (good for him) I'll change it for either.

i haven't trained an umbreon yet, but i'd suggest toxic, wish, substitute, and baton pass.

That's a BPer Umbreon. I'm searching for a tank. Being either, it needs something to heal. Is it better wish or rest?

Thanks for the help. About the empty slot, maybe Blissey with Aromatherapy, Light Screen......what else should she have? Orr is it a bad choice?

 

[Rubberbandman]

Dookatun is a better waller than Umbreon, but Umbreon is a far better supporter...

 

[Shiny Umbreon]

How about this for the empty slot?

Blissey@Leftovers
Natural Cure
Nature: (+Sp. Def, -Atk)
EP: HP 252 / Sp. Atk 126 / Sp. Def 126
Moves:
Counter
Aromatherapy
Softboiled
Hyper Beam

Another thing could be:

Altaria@Leftovers
Natural Cure
Nature: (-Atk, +Sp. Def)
EP: HP 168 / Def 168 / Sp. Def 172
Moves:
Featherdance
Entice
Feather Rest
Dragon Pulse

It's kind of defensive, but it still works for battle. Blissey can help a lot with Counter, but the thing that makes me doubt about her is her defense (which may not be enough to resist)

So, tell me what you think the empty slot should be. If you have another recomendation, let it be a kind of defensive Pokémon, which is missing.

 

[Hippo]

How about this for the empty slot?

Blissey@Leftovers
Natural Cure
Nature: Bold (-attack, +def)
EVs: HP 200 / Def 252 / 52 Whatever, maybe spec attack
Moves:
Counter
Aromatherapy
Softboiled
Hyper Beam

It's kind of defensive, but it still works for battle. Blissey can help a lot with Counter, but the thing that makes me doubt about her is her defense (which may not be enough to resist)
Go with Bold to boost def and put 252 EVs in it. Sdef is decent, she just needs def and a little bit more hp can help with both. Maybe put the remaining 52 EVs into spec attack and go for icebeam, but idk, Hyper Beam is spec now, isnt it?
So, tell me what you think the empty slot should be. If you have another recomendation, let it be a kind of defensive Pokémon, which is missing.

Not sure, but i can help with Bliss =P

 

[aragornbird]

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Wow, your items suck. =\

Don't use Wisdom Glasses, Concentration Band, or crap like type-boosting items. Their boosts are too low to be of much use.

Rotom@Leftovers
Levitate
Nature: Modest (+Sp. Atk -Atk)
EP: HP 4 / Sp Atk 252 / Speed 252
Moves:
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
Substitute
Thunder Wave/Will-o-wisp

Double Team is for noobs and Confuse Ray is the worst status move.

Also, Rotomu sucks, so just max its Spd and SAtk.

Togekiss@Leftovers
Serene Grace
Nature: Timid (+Speed -Atk)
EVs: 188 HP / 184 Atk / 136 SAtk
Moves:
Air Slash
Pulse Bomb
Scheme
Thunder Wave-For guys with a lot of speed

You have Scheme and Thunder Wave. Why would you want to max out its Spd and SAtk?

Also, no Pulse Bomb = death by Steelix/Dosaidon


Weavile@Life Orb
Pressure
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -Sp. Atk)
EP: Attack 252 / Speed 252 / Sp. Def 4
Moves:
Blade Test
Ice Punch
Swords Dance
Brick Break

PorygonZ@Life Orb
Adaptive
Nature: Modest (+SAtk, -Atk)
EP: HP 4 /Sp. Atk 252 / Speed 252
Moves:
Tri Attack
Hyper Beam
Scheme
Shadow Ball

Ghost types lol at your previous set.

Umbreon@Leftovers
Synchronize
Nature: Bold (+Sp. Def -Atk)
EP: HP 252 / Def 176 / 80 Sp. Def
-Wish
-Mean Look
-Baton Pass
-Taunt

'Kay, why would you give Focus Strip to a tank? I'm guess you don't know how Focus Strip actually works, so I'll tell you: it leaves the user with 1 HP if the enemy uses an attack that would OHKO them, BUT only if the user has 100% health. Otherwise, it won't work, even if the user has 99% health. Seeing as most attacks will never OHKO Umbreon, Focus Strip is useless.
Besides, there's no item more important on a tank than Leftovers.
Rest? Since when has Umbreon ever used Rest over Wish/Moonlight?

Blissey@Leftovers
Natural Cure
Nature: Bold (-attack, +def)
EVs: HP 200 / Def 252 / 52 Whatever, maybe spec attack
Moves:
Aromatherapy
Softboiled
Ice Beam
Seismic Toss

Okay, just because Hyper Beam is special DOES NOT mean it should be used. The ONLY Pokemon that should use it is PorygonZ and that's ONLY to OHKO Blissey (as long as it has Scheme, Adaptive, and Life Orb) Otherwise, stay away from it.

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[Shiny Umbreon]

Thank you a lot, aragornbird. But Togekiss does NOT need Attack, it only has Pulse Bomb and Air Slash, so why would it want Attack?

Now, if you say Rotom sucks, Salamence might be a good option.

It would be something like this:

Salamence@Leftovers?
Intimidate
Nature: Adamant (-Atk, +Sp Atk)
EP: Atk 252 / Speed 252 / HP 4
Moves:
Dragon Claw
Rock Slide
Dragon Dance
Feather Rest

 

[Shiny Umbreon]

Forget about Salamence, I have another option in mind. What about this?

Metagross@Leftovers
Clear Body
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp. Atk)
EVs: Atk 252 / Defense 126 / Sp. Def 126
Moves:
Rock Slide/Reminiscant Headbutt
Meteor Mash/Reminiscant Headbutt
Earthquake
Rest

I've already decided to take Rotom away, because I need another Physical Attacker instead of a third Special Attacker.

 

[White Lotus]

Shiny Umbreon wrote:

Thank you a lot, aragornbird. But Togekiss does NOT need Attack, it only has Pulse Bomb and Air Slash, so why would it want Attack?

That was just a typo. He meant: HP 188 / Sat 136 / Spd 184

264 Is a magic Speed #. This would give him 266 Spd which is 1 more than everything that has 1 more than the magic #. Very tricky.

I personally like: HP 168 / Sat 156 / Spd 184 but speed is the most important stat here.

Togekiss is awesome though. It definitely needs *Air Slash + *Pulse Bomb because (Fight) + (Flying) hits everything neutral. There are still pokes that will stall him but this covers pretty much everything. What makes him so great is he had a huge support movepool but no good attacks. With the 2 attacks above he is now a complete poke and my favorite new evolution. You could *Thunder Wave / *Wish / *Feather Rest / *Scheme / * Baton Pass / etc.

Very versatile. InGame i'd prolly go with *Thunder Wave + *Feather Rest but i'm going to be using *Scheme + *Baton Pass to make my ReSTalk Milotic a beast.

Aragornbird wrote:

Umbreon@Leftovers
Synchronize
Nature: Bold (+Def - Atk)
EP: HP 252 / Def 176 / 80 Sp. Def
-Wish
-Mean Look
-Baton Pass
-Taunt

This is how to use Umbreon period. If he's not working for you you aren't using him right. His job is to *Mean Look to trap an opponent poke and *Baton Pass it to a counter.

Example: You *Mean Look Swampert and *Baton Pass to something with a (Grass) move. Normally Swampert would just switch at the sight of something with a (Grass) move but he can't because of *Mean Look.

This is how to use Umbreon. He's like a Little General who dictates the matchups. It's less effective InGame because the AI is so dumb they don't switch for matchup purposes but when you play another person they aren't gonna let you just bring in counters without switching.

*Wish is also great allowing him to heal himself and other poke on your team. Just *Baton Pass the *Wish and if the other poke is faster Umbreon will take the hit and let your weak poke heal back to full HP for free. Very nice.

*Taunt is for those problem pokes. Anything with *Roar / *Whirlwind will just blow you away wasting the *Mean Look. *Taunt them first and they are stuck attacking the bad matchup. Anything that statups could be a problem too since with the boosted #'s they might kill their natural counters. *Taunt keeps them at their base stats.

 

[Shiny Umbreon]

That was just a typo. He meant: HP 188 / Sat 136 / Spd 184

I thought about that but then I saw he'd put Atk AND Sp. Atk so I got confused.

This is how to use Umbreon period. If he's not working for you you aren't using him right.

The Umbreon that wasn't working right was the one I made with Toxic, Confuse Ray, Rest and Protect. This is okay I think.

Example: You *Mean Look Swampert and *Baton Pass to something with a (Grass) move. Normally Swampert would just switch at the sight of something with a (Grass) move but he can't because of *Mean Look.

Can't I just switch the normal way?

*Wish is also great allowing him to heal himself and other poke on your team. Just *Baton Pass the *Wish and if the other poke is faster Umbreon will take the hit and let your weak poke heal back to full HP for free. Very nice.

Does Wish needs to be BPed? Can't I just switch normally?

If I can, I could replace Baton Pass with something else...

 

[White Lotus]

Listen man.

You must *Baton Pass the *Mean Look. The opponent's poke is then stuck there to die. He can't switch - that is the point of *Mean Look. The only way to end the *Mean Look is if you remove the poke who used it. That's why you *Baton Pass it - to keep the effect in play.

You can switch and the *Wish will still work but the poke you are trying to revive will most likely die from the hit before it's healed.

Example: The poke you are trying to heal is Blaziken with 1 HP left because he had a *Reversal sweep stalled. You are using Umbreon with 222 Spd. You're opponent is Salamence with 256 Spd. You cast *Wish and he hits you with *Earthquake. Now if you just switch to Blaziken he will eat the next *Earthquake and die before *Wish activates at the end of the turn. If you *Baton Pass the same *Wish Umbreon eats the *Earthquake and Blaziken is healed at the end of the turn.

Do you understand now? By *Baton Passing - *Wish Umbreon takes the hit for your weak poke making it more effective. This only applies when the opponent is faster then Umbreon though.

Originally Posted by White Lotus
Example: You *Mean Look Swampert and *Baton Pass to something with a (Grass) move. Normally Swampert would just switch at the sight of something with a (Grass) move but he can't because of *Mean Look.

Shiny Umbreon wrote:

Can't I just switch the normal way?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here so i'll give you both sides.

If you don't *Baton Pass - *Mean Look the effect would end. Just like if you don't *Baton Pass a *Sword Dance the next poke won't have boosted Attack.

If you mean couldn't Swampert just switch normally the answer is no. That's what *Mean Look does.

I see what you are trying to do but Umbreon isn't meant to kill pokes himself. He's meant to help your other pokes kill them easier. If you want to lose a move it would be *Taunt but i don't suggest it. The best other move i've seen in that slot is *Charm to weaken a physical sweeper so you could *Baton Pass to a *Dragon Dancer / *Calm Minder / *Sword Dancer to allow you to StatUp without fear and sweep.

 

[Shiny Umbreon]

I wasn't aware of the exact effects of Baton Pass. I thought it only passed stat changes to other Pokémon and nothing else. Thanks anyway.

 

[White Lotus]

For the record it passes on a lot of stuff.

You can pass *Substitutes too.

It will also pass over negative effects outside of status effects. Like if you were 'Intimidated' or you used *Overheat and lowered your special attack.

It even passes on stuff like Confusion / Attraction / Ingrain / Leech Seed / (Ghost) Curse.

 

[Bliksem]

Example: The poke you are trying to heal is Blaziken with 1 HP left because he had a *Reversal sweep stalled. You are using Umbreon with 222 Spd. You're opponent is Salamence with 256 Spd. You cast *Wish and he hits you with *Earthquake. Now if you just switch to Blaziken he will eat the next *Earthquake and die before *Wish activates at the end of the turn. If you *Baton Pass the same *Wish Umbreon eats the *Earthquake and Blaziken is healed at the end of the turn.

Do you understand now? By *Baton Passing - *Wish Umbreon takes the hit for your weak poke making it more effective. This only applies when the opponent is faster then Umbreon though.

Now Salamence will just decimate Blaziken with Earthquake the next turn, wasting both the Wish and giving Umbreon unneeded damage as Blaziken's Salac Berry has already been expended.

Anyways, besides picking on the example, Umbreon only works in this manner if the Pokemon on your team are capable of dealing with the threats they're sent in to stop. If your team isn't setup to fight in this style, you're better off using a different type of Pokemon.

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
Nature: (+Atk/Def, -SAtk/Spd)
EVs: Focused in Special Defense and HP
~Quick Revenge
~Curse
~Rest
~Taunt/Mean Look

The premise is simple. You have to catch something off guard and proceed to curse up, using Taunt to prevent them from removing your buffs or from stating up alongside you, or Mean Look to keep something from switching. Because Taunt now lasts 2-4 turns, this makes it even more effective. Quick Revenge maxes at base 100 power and has STAB, giving you a potential 150 BP if the opponent attacks you, which it must with Taunt. Curse keeps you alive while raising your attack to something that's potentially threatening. Skarmory and Steelix are the primary threats to this set.

 

[White Lotus]

Bliksem wrote:

Now Salamence will just decimate Blaziken with Earthquake the next turn, wasting both the Wish and giving Umbreon unneeded damage as Blaziken's Salac Berry has already been expended.

Are you serious.

If you are it just proves there is no accounting for stupidity.

The example had nothing to do with what happens next. DUM DUM

It was meant to illustrate how Umbreon could eat damage if he was slower than the opponent. The poster asked the difference in switching a *Wish and *Baton Passing one. I picked Blaziken because he'd have 1 HP left and have no room to survive any hit. I picked Salamence simply because i know he's faster than Umbreon.

There is no next turn.

Onto the build.

*Rest on Umbreon is laugh out loud. Why would you do that when you could use *Moonlight / *Wish. Because they might status you with *Taunt in effect. Didn't think that one all the way through, huh.

Don't reinvent the wheel. Chaosbreon works so well for a reason. Because someone smarter then you came up with it.