If May Was Not a Coordintor

Wobbu

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    Around the time of Ash's first Gym battle in AG, May decided that she didn't want to be a regular Trainer like Ash. She instead became a contest coordinator and participated in Pokémon Contests across Hoenn, Kanto, Johto, and Sinnoh. But what if May decided to pursue a different goal? Do you think she would have made a good Trainer? Or perhaps Breeder, Doctor, type master, etc.? What do you think AG would have been like if contests were not a part of it?
     
    Hmm... well, it would have us see back-to-back Gym Battles, maybe even have her and Ash face off at the Pokémon League, if she were a gym trainer. As far as a type trainer, if it's Water Pokémon Trainer, she might be able to fulfill what Misty could not. Breeder, well, that's a bit similar to Coordinating anyhow. A lot of variables, and that's just from her actually being with Ash. I have an easier time predicting what she'd be like if she weren't with Ash. She could be a lab assistant to Professor Birch who will give some advice on his journey, maybe even be a bit of a rival to him as well. Or a rival gym battler that he'll have to face off against the league. If Misty's kept in AG, maybe even make her a rival for Misty for her goal as well, a competitive rival for the journey to a Whirl Cup-style tournament.
     
    Haruka and her Pokémon Contests were the best thing about Advanced Generation. The decision to have a protagonist actively working towards a goal alongside Satoshi moved the pace of the series along better than Jouto, and the writers were able to develop Haruka really well through them. Contests also introduced two good characters in Shuu and Harley. If Haruka weren't a Coordinator, then AG is worse off for it.

    As for what she could do otherwise:

    A regular Pokémon trainer like Satoshi doesn't work, because back-to-back Gym battles would be repetitive and boring. Takeshi's already doing the Breeding thing, and an "X-type Pokémon Master" is far too similar to Kasumi (plus, those kind of goals suck :p). It would also probably have to be something specific to Gen. 3. I dunno, it feels like Haruka was specifically set up for Contests and I couldn't see her doing anything else. Maybe that was intentional, or maybe that's just my lack of imagination.
     
    Haruka and her Pokémon Contests were the best thing about Advanced Generation. The decision to have a protagonist actively working towards a goal alongside Satoshi moved the pace of the series along better than Jouto, and the writers were able to develop Haruka really well through them. Contests also introduced two good characters in Shuu and Harley. If Haruka weren't a Coordinator, then AG is worse off for it.

    As for what she could do otherwise:

    A regular Pokémon trainer like Satoshi doesn't work, because back-to-back Gym battles would be repetitive and boring. Takeshi's already doing the Breeding thing, and an "X-type Pokémon Master" is far too similar to Kasumi (plus, those kind of goals suck :p). It would also probably have to be something specific to Gen. 3. I dunno, it feels like Haruka was specifically set up for Contests and I couldn't see her doing anything else. Maybe that was intentional, or maybe that's just my lack of imagination.

    Problem is, the Pokémon Contests being expanded were ultimately pointless. What's the point of even trying to expand something that doesn't even lead to the end credits for the games when you're just going to remove her to use the girl from the next generation and have her do the same thing anyways? Do they replace Ash with the new generation guy and then have him do the exact same gym-challenging goal as him? NO! Besides, there's no need to focus on a goal that most people probably won't even do since it isn't actually relevant to completing the games other than just collecting them all (Secret Base stuff as well as getting Milotic entered into the Pokedex). I mean, what, should we all of a sudden give Max the goal of being the best developer of Secret Bases while we're at it?

    And for the record, I've heard of plenty of people and even know a few who actually beat a Pokémon League in the games specifically with a single consistent type, so Misty's goal doesn't suck at all. At least that is something that actually can lead to the endgame credits and thus actually IS important, unlike Pokémon Contests.

    And how about a Pokémon Ranger? That's a trainer class that debuted in Generation 3 and was even specific to it. Or how about a ninja class trainer? That also debuted in Generation 3? Those both could promote Generation 3 in lieu of Pokémon Contests.
     
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    Since May battled in Contests as if they were regular battles instead of Contest battles, she would have obviously the same in Gyms. They actually bring this up in Battle Frontier, and May won most of her Contest battles by KOing her opponent. May was influenced by Ash's battle style (as opposed to Dawn who already knew about Contests thanks to her mother), so she was essentially a straight-up battler in Contests instead of a coordinator.

    If May could take down pokemon in battle like Flygon, Absol, Banette, Cacturne, Venusaur, Medicham, Dusclops, Grumpig, Jynx, Houndoom, Ariados, Vibrava, Glameow, etc....there's no reason she wouldn't be able to do the same in Gyms.

    We've also seen coordinators battle outside of Contests like Drew, Zoey, etc. who show that coordinators are just as strong in normal battling as they are in Contests, so there's like no difference.
     
    Contests were an extension to gym battles in Ruby and Sapphire games (although they were not mandatory), and having them showcased in-anime, I believe, has helped add more exposure to the system overall. Not only that, but it also made Advanced Generation stand out a little more, at least from my perspective.

    Had they not allowed May to become Pokémon Coordinator and rather something else—type specialist, for example—I suppose they might have been able to permit herself to compete in Battle Tents (Ash likely would have joined in, considering how interested he generally is in battling), but I'm unsure as to how exciting that would've been.

    Contests are different than battling straightforward, and I believe having an alternative like this every now and again lends a hand on latter from growing stale.
     
    The problem with the anime is that anything that falls under battling is something Ash does, (Gyms/Battle Frontier) so the companions will never get to do the main quest in comparison. Had Contests not become a big thing in the anime May probably would have been handled similarly to Iris/Cilan, or Clemont/Serena in that she would just have some stuff on the side but not really been focused on much.

    Maybe they could have had been a fire-type specialist because of Torchic? Then again Hoenn didn't have many new fire pokemon besides the Torchic line, Torkoal, and Numel/Camerupt.
     
    Contests were an extension to gym battles in Ruby and Sapphire games (although they were not mandatory), and having them showcased in-anime, I believe, has helped add more exposure to the system overall. Not only that, but it also made Advanced Generation stand out a little more, at least from my perspective.

    Had they not allowed May to become Pokémon Coordinator and rather something else—type specialist, for example—I suppose they might have been able to permit herself to compete in Battle Tents (Ash likely would have joined in, considering how interested he generally is in battling), but I'm unsure as to how exciting that would've been.

    Contests are different than battling straightforward, and I believe having an alternative like this every now and again lends a hand on latter from growing stale.

    It really didn't, especially not after DP decided to have Dawn do contests after she replaced May (which rendered the entire thing pointless, really, since if she's going to be replaced by someone else just to have them do the same goal, something they're unwilling to even consider with Ash, how exactly would they be important). And besides, if it's not going to actually LEAD to the end credits, there's zero point in trying to expand on them, since after all, the Anime is moreorless an advertisement of the games. Say what you will about type-mastery, at least THAT is technically able to lead to the ending of the games (all you need to do is beat at the very least the Elite 4 with a team composed of a single consistent type).

    The problem with the anime is that anything that falls under battling is something Ash does, (Gyms/Battle Frontier) so the companions will never get to do the main quest in comparison. Had Contests not become a big thing in the anime May probably would have been handled similarly to Iris/Cilan, or Clemont/Serena in that she would just have some stuff on the side but not really been focused on much.

    Maybe they could have had been a fire-type specialist because of Torchic? Then again Hoenn didn't have many new fire pokemon besides the Torchic line, Torkoal, and Numel/Camerupt.

    They still weren't a big thing anyways. True, they were made needlessly bigger than in the games, but other than that, can you truly say that May's Pokémon Contest goal is actually big considering they, you know, actually replaced her with Dawn and had the latter do the exact same goal? If it truly was a big thing, May would have attended Sinnoh with Ash in DP, NOT be replaced with Dawn and have the latter do the same with contests. We don't have Ash replaced by the new Generation guy and have him do his goal, so why should we do it for May or Dawn? I don't even like either of them, yet even you have to agree that is a pretty big point against them being big (honestly, even the type-masters bit is bigger than that. At least that is something you actually can get the ending with, unlike Pokémon Contests.).
     
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    Admittedly contests did seemed like most logical choice for May to compete in. They suited her sweet girly aspect of character and brought new style to competitive use of pokemon. Introducing some sort of qualification rounds in each contest where participants measured between themselves how good at teamwork they are with pokemon partner trying to enchant judges and audience through flashy, glamurous type of attack combinations and performances on stage. Earning them pass in next, harder level of competition.

    Which were different in sense that bigger prevalence held how creative attacks and improvised techniques are in blocking opponent pokemon moves with style, rather than relying on raw strength, power and use of pokemon anatomy and special abilities in turning opponent strategy against himself.

    In advent of such things May role as daughter of Petalburg gym leader was pretty limited in what kind of career she could pursue. Being regular trainer was possibility, but writers likely wanted to avoid that to avoid clash of interests and repetitiveness in doing exact same thing Ash does.

    Alternative was in May being Ash rival, but that would had happebned only if Misty was kept as female heroine for AG.

    May striving to master specific type of pokemon didn't made much sense either. Because writers already had established pokemon girl called Misty who wanted to become water pokemon master. And with her character writers already had history, developed personality, formed relationship with Ash and created path for character to walk on. Going on deeper, more meaningful development in entering harder challenges in aim of reaching type master title through follow up on what Whirl Cup established.

    Actually now that i think about it Hoenn was loaded with water. There existed access to lakes, rivers, ocean having so many places for writers to do so much more with Misty goal and character.Team Aqua which wanged to use Kyogre for evil purposes. Water experts like Wallace and Juan from who she could learn alot in becoming poised, more collected trainer. All kind of new unique water pokemon like Surskit through which Misty bug fear could be explored getting lot of development.

    Settings allowed to make new water based events to enter, races, underwater battling. Even 9th movie was about prince of sea Manaphy. Im surpised no one in here took in account just how much water packed Hoenn was.
    So if May was intended to be type master, it would had made so much more sense to keep Misty instead.
    With Hoenn ironically being most abundant with water plots generation so far, what a shame to not utilize her there.

    Maybe i could had imagine May becoming pokemon ranger. Vowing to do her best in protecting landscapes, intact nature and both marine and terrestrial ecosystem. Catching pokemon species best suited for job of scouting(such as maybe Altaria or Peliper)or those who have high defense abilities or speed being good asset in protecting forests and pokemon living there(such as maybe Camerupt, Shiftry etc).

    Traveling through Hoenn to better know all kind of areas, learn about natural habitat of pokemon living there and taking advices from other older, more mature rangers such as Solana. In teaching May how to harness power of pokemon and harmony they have within nature to her advantage in stopping villains, poachers and all kind of other corrupted people in destroying pokemon homes and stealing them.

    Or intervening in stopping enraged pokemon who went mad because of various reasons trying to figure cause behind it.
    There could had been even introduced special tests where May would have to pass theoretical and practical course. Some sort of studying before she graduates and earn position of ranger. Choosing which parts of Hoenn she will supervise in future taking good care in preserving nature and bological life there.

    It ccould had potential if enough variety and interesting subplots were introduced along the way stopping May from passing tests. Such as sabotage, May feeling terrified and shocked in having to enter rescue mission, laziness in special training rangers go through etc.

    A regular Pokémon trainer like Satoshi doesn't work, because back-to-back Gym battles would be repetitive and boring. Takeshi's already doing the Breeding thing, and an "X-type Pokémon Master" is far too similar to Kasumi (plus, those kind of goals suck :p). It would also probably have to be something specific to Gen. 3. I dunno, it feels like Haruka was specifically set up for Contests and I couldn't see her doing anything else. Maybe that was intentional, or maybe that's just my lack of imagination.

    That doesnt sound as too objective classification of whole concept of one type master career to me.
    Your basing your opinion and views on what it was showed in series not taking in consideration whole picture. Potential which there existed to do more meaningful work out of Misty or Iris dreams, but wasnt utilized because of various factors.

    Factors which didnt arise from writers inability or restrictions to do more structual development of this goals, but side elements which are often ignored in this litigation.

    Explanation:
    Spoiler:
     
    Admittedly contests did seemed like most logical choice for May to compete in. They suited her sweet girly aspect of character and brought new style to competitive use of pokemon. Introducing some sort of qualification rounds in each contest where participants measured between themselves how good at teamwork they are with pokemon partner trying to enchant judges and audience through flashy, glamurous type of attack combinations and performances on stage. Earning them pass in next, harder level of competition.

    Which were different in sense that bigger prevalence held how creative attacks and improvised techniques are in blocking opponent pokemon moves with style, rather than relying on raw strength, power and use of pokemon anatomy and special abilities in turning opponent strategy against himself.

    I guess there's a point to be made there, though

    In advent of such things May role as daughter of Petalburg gym leader was pretty limited in what kind of career she could pursue. Being regular trainer was possibility, but writers likely wanted to avoid that to avoid clash of interests and repetitiveness in doing exact same thing Ash does.

    Yeah, and that's also not even taking into account the fact that early in the show she hated Pokémon.

    Alternative was in May being Ash rival, but that would had happebned only if Misty was kept as female heroine for AG.

    Yeah, and to be honest, I would have preferred that option.

    May striving to master specific type of pokemon didn't made much sense either. Because writers already had established pokemon girl called Misty who wanted to become water pokemon master. And with her character writers already had history, developed personality, formed relationship with Ash and created path for character to walk on. Going on deeper, more meaningful development in entering harder challenges in aim of reaching type master title through follow up on what Whirl Cup established.

    Yeah, especially when the only type that would have made any sense is Water Types due to there being a huge amount she could do there. Fire Pokémon were rare, even by Pokémon standards, Grass didn't exactly have many new outliers either. And a bit ironic you would point that out, especially considering May herself got replaced by Dawn who went ahead and did the exact same goal of May did even when it would have been cheaper to just keep May in DP (as much as I'm loathe to admit).

    Actually now that i think about it Hoenn was loaded with water. There existed access to lakes, rivers, ocean having so many places for writers to do so much more with Misty goal and character.Team Aqua which wanged to use Kyogre for evil purposes. Water experts like Wallace and Juan from who she could learn alot in becoming poised, more collected trainer. All kind of new unique water pokemon like Surskit through which Misty bug fear could be explored getting lot of development.

    Settings allowed to make new water based events to enter, races, underwater battling. Even 9th movie was about prince of sea Manaphy. Im surpised no one in here took in account just how much water packed Hoenn was.
    So if May was intended to be type master, it would had made so much more sense to keep Misty instead.
    With Hoenn ironically being most abundant with water plots generation so far, what a shame to not utilize her there.

    Yeah, definitely a shame. They really should have kept Misty for one more generation, especially when Hoenn actually had large amounts of water types and thus give her plenty to do. Then again, Takeshi Shudo, being the Team Rocket fanboy he is, chose them over Misty, even when the show proved that to be a horrible decision by making them so pathetic they qualified as an annoyance than an actual genuine threat (you know, the entire point of being an antagonist, to be a direct threat to anyone around them, ESPECIALLY the main protagonist).

    Maybe i could had imagine May becoming pokemon ranger. Vowing to do her best in protecting landscapes, intact nature and both marine and terrestrial ecosystem. Catching pokemon species best suited for job of scouting(such as maybe Altaria or Peliper)or those who have high defense abilities or speed being good asset in protecting forests and pokemon living there(such as maybe Camerupt, Shiftry etc).

    Traveling through Hoenn to better know all kind of areas, learn about natural habitat of pokemon living there and taking advices from other older, more mature rangers such as Solana. In teaching May how to harness power of pokemon and harmony they have within nature to her advantage in stopping villains, poachers and all kind of other corrupted people in destroying pokemon homes and stealing them.

    Or intervening in stopping enraged pokemon who went mad because of various reasons trying to figure cause behind it.
    There could had been even introduced special tests where May would have to pass theoretical and practical course. Some sort of studying before she graduates and earn position of ranger. Choosing which parts of Hoenn she will supervise in future taking good care in preserving nature and bological life there.

    It ccould had potential if enough variety and interesting subplots were introduced along the way stopping May from passing tests. Such as sabotage, May feeling terrified and shocked in having to enter rescue mission, laziness in special training rangers go through etc.

    Agreed. Not to mention it would have given a bit more focus to the Pokémon Ranger occupation anyways (sure, the Pokémon Ranger series didn't exactly exist until mid-AG, but the trainer class was present since Ruby and Sapphire).

    That doesnt sound as too objective classification of whole concept of one type master career to me.
    Your basing your opinion and views on what it was showed in series not taking in consideration whole picture. Potential which there existed to do more meaningful work out of Misty or Iris dreams, but wasnt utilized because of various factors.

    Factors which didnt arise from writers inability or restrictions to do more structual development of this goals, but side elements which are often ignored in this litigation.

    Explanation:
    Spoiler:

    Agreed on all points, and I really should point out that the player can actually beat the Elite 4 and Champion and thus get the actual ending just with a single consistent type (worded that way in order to take into account dual-types such as Gyarados), and there was definitely a lot the writers could do in Hoenn, Unova, and Kalos regarding her goal (ESPECIALLY Hoenn, I should point out), and even Sinnoh at least had variances in Water Pokémon Populations as a reason, among other things.

    Besides, if they could expand Pokémon Contests in the anime which in the games were barely even sidequest material and most certainly weren't even needed to complete the game other than completing the Pokedex (since they are directly tied to evolving Feebas into Milotic), they most certainly can expand on Misty's goal in the Anime.
     
    Problem is, the Pokémon Contests being expanded were ultimately pointless. What's the point of even trying to expand something that doesn't even lead to the end credits for the games when you're just going to remove her to use the girl from the next generation and have her do the same thing anyways?
    To give a new companion of Satoshi's something to actively strive towards, so we're not stuck with only Satoshi and the Gyms for a third time in a row? Advertise a new game feature? Who cares what the rationale for expanding on them was, the Contests were an entertaining new addition to the anime that provided three great characters (Haruka, Shuu, Harley), a secondary storyline for the anime to follow, and some great new battles.

    Do they replace Ash with the new generation guy and then have him do the exact same gym-challenging goal as him? NO!
    They should have. Dragging Satoshi out for five shows and counting hasn't made the anime franchise any better and he's only gotten staler as a result. If BW and XY have demonstrated anything with Satoshi, it's that the writers made the right choice replacing Haruka before she had the chance to do the same. Same with Hikari (while she and Haruka had the same goal, there were differences in the way those goals and Pokémon Contests were written, as well as both their personalities). But this is getting off-topic.

    And for the record, I've heard of plenty of people and even know a few who actually beat a Pokémon League in the games specifically with a single consistent type, so Misty's goal doesn't suck at all. At least that is something that actually can lead to the endgame credits and thus actually IS important, unlike Pokémon Contests.
    That doesnt sound as too objective classification of whole concept of one type master career to me.
    The existence of the ":p" should have indicated that I wasn't being entirely serious with that part of the post.
     
    Hmm... this is actually hard to think about. May is still my favorite female character so far. Although Serena is getting up their, but that is a different story.

    If she wasn't a trainer, I could see her being very similar to Misty I guess. Maybe how Sapphire was in RS Manga. If this was the case, I think May would have maybe went him him after Hoenn/Kanto and they would be rivals, similar to how Ash and Misty were. Again this is actually really hard to think of. But that is what I think.
     
    To Lizardo:
    To me that seems just like sweeping things under the rug, rather than dealing with real crux of problem though. There exists plenty anime or existed which keep not just main character, but every other main one present around since day one for hundreds of eisodes and it works just fine. such as Sailor Moon, Inuyasha, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Dragon Ball etc, etc.

    If anything by replacing main characters writers are just avoiding to face direct problem and that is telling strong continuity based story which builds on itself over long period of time. Stable group of people with who viewers could relate, invest emotionally into their personalities and storylinegiving to anime some sort of brand. Identity and group which would together carry storyline on their back, instead of leaving everything on one character(this case Ash).

    With current formula of cycling through main cast like its live stock writers are not forced to develop new ideas and twists to storyline breaking up status Quo. They arent forced to search for excercising their mind in developing more their creations with intent of keeping protagonists fresh or trying to retrieve luster character may had lost becoming fun and likable to its viewers again. So that he wouldnt be remembered as someone" who became stale old bread begging that writers end its misery", But breathing new life int it, introduce new interesting aspects to personality and fresh subplots restoring people faith into it.

    With each replaced companion having unfinished stories , unresolved flaws and feelings fulfilling precondition for more substantial growth. Deepening on relationships and friendships between themselves and new characters. Enter new, more challenging tasks which puts to test previous experience and knpwledge they experienced having to learn how to control new powers and skills on road of achieving their dreams. And explore more on background and character interest writtrs introduced in first place sparking audience interest for it.

    Just to end up forgotten, have their deveipment abruptly cut in middle of journey and put all those poental to do many great things with purose of building on started work enriching on story, adventure and srength of story. Treating pokemon as one big memorable journey.

    Something which anime like pokemon doesnt have anymore losing its direction and original message of what was tried to be accomplished.

    p.s. Point taken over whole type master careers. However i still think they had enough stamina and potential to introduce paralell storyline to Ash gym quest in case we saw Misty continuing after Johto with Whirl Cup being good beginning. Or with Iris when speaking of Unova feeling at some points like that with whole dragon village past, Dragonite, specialists like Drayden etc.
     
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