If our hero(es) were to win a tournament, how should it be handled? v.2

[matt0044]

For some reason, the old version of this thread got ignored. Well, here's hoping this new version does better.

Before any of you get to reading, be sure to read EVERYTHING and think before replying. In addition, don't type brief replies that are light on details such as, "No, I don't (such and such)." I want to read your honest thoughts and know that you took EVERYTHING I said here into account before replying to this thread. Of course, read it when you have time to kill because, trust me, there's a LOT to talk about.

With that said, let's begin.

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You've all heard it before and plenty have said it before on these forums: Ash, May and Dawn can't win a League/GF because (insert bulls**t reason here). This has bothered me to no end. As flat as Ash and co. are as characters, are we NOT suppose to root for them as fans of the Anime?

But here's something that's a bit different.

Suppose that Ash was planned to win a Pokemon League from the start (Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, you name it)? Suppose May was meant to win the Grand Festival in Hoenn or Kanto? Suppose Dawn was meant to win the Sinnoh Grand Festival?

Now, if all those events came to pass, how do YOU think the writers of the series should handle the victory(ies)? How should they plan out the storyline and the character development from start to finish, if they planned on our so-called heroes winning the tournament they were aiming for?

In short, what factors and character developments do YOU think would help Ash win one or more Pokemon Leagues and May and Dawn win their Grand Festivals?

Be sure to think hard about this as I want to hear your honest thoughts.

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Now, believe it or not, I can see the future and predict that some of you will type responses that I've seen time and again. So let's get out our Crystal Balls and see what sort of responses I'll get so I can respond to them before I get them.

Some will say that Ash should get overconfident after winning a League, leading him to get mauled by a Trainer. I have to disagree. If Ash were to receive good character development, he should learn lessons in humility during his journey and NOT right after it. Like he wins his first Gym Battle and he thinks he's hot stuff before he gets a run for his money in the episode follow said Gym victory. He should learn that cockiness and arrogance is a big No-No early on in his journey.

Others will attempt to excuse Ash's loss in the Indigo League, May's loss in the Hoenn GF and Dawn's loss in the Sinnoh GF by saying that it was their first times. Yes, it was their first time but that doesn't mean that they CAN win on their first time. The writers should've developed them in time for the league/GF where their growth, experience and knowledge as Trainers/Coordinators culminates in them winning the tournament (in a non-bulls**t way, of course) and taking their first steps into becoming the best Trainer/Coordinator in the world. We should NOT have to see them fail and be okay with it.

Also, a thought occurred to me not to long ago: in realistic terms, a trainer CAN win a Pokemon League Tournament the first time around if he train his Pokemon hard enough for years until he or she is more than ready for the League. There are probably over 60 participants in each league tournament and the competition tends to vary. There are experienced Trainers who competed in Leagues before and Trainers who are relatively new to Leagues but who says that Trainers competing in a League for the first time can't come out on top. It might not seem "right" but who says that it can't happen?

Unfortunately for the Anime, they can't exactly have Ash spend THAT much time in a region so obviously they have the League shortly after Ash gets his 8th badge. Though why they can't do a simple Time Skip to years/months later at the league is beyond me.

Also, who in their right mind would continue to watch the Anime in hopes that Ash would win a League soon? It's be about 15 years and more than half of the Pokemon fanbase stopped watching the Anime YEARS ago.

Finally, and I won't be specific, more will treat Ash and co. like real life people and disregard the fact that their actions and developments are determined by the writers, actual real life people.

So, fire away. Disagree all you want but I'm sticking to my own thoughts and opinions like glue.

 

[Kirbychu]

You've all heard it before and plenty have said it before on these forums: Ash, May and Dawn can't win a League/GF because (insert bulls**t reason here). This has bothered me to no end. As flat as Ash and co. are as characters, are we NOT suppose to root for them as fans of the Anime?

Many would argue that they're not very likable characters, so maybe that's why not many of us root for them.

But here's something that's a bit different.

Suppose that Ash was planned to win a Pokemon League from the start (Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, you name it)? Suppose May was meant to win the Grand Festival in Hoenn or Kanto? Suppose Dawn was meant to win the Sinnoh Grand Festival?

Now, if all those events came to pass, how do YOU think the writers of the series should handle the victory(ies)? How should they plan out the storyline and the character development from start to finish, if they planned on our so-called heroes winning the tournament they were aiming for?

In short, what factors and character developments do YOU think would help Ash win one or more Pokemon Leagues and May and Dawn win their Grand Festivals?

Be sure to think hard about this as I want to hear your honest thoughts.

I believe the biggest problem here is that "our heroes", particularly Ash, don't look or act like champions. Ash has the personality of a little kid, and in many people's eyes he's a terrible trainer. The writers would need to develop Ash into more of a competent trainer over the course of the region. I actually thought Sinnoh did I decent job of this, but Unova destroyed it. It's as if they wiped his memory.

I believe that the writers need to stop "resetting" Ash. He was completely clueless when he first began his journey and he still gives off that impression. Toward the end of each saga Ash looks like he actually knows what he's doing. If the writers were planning on letting him win they would need to let him be more competent earlier in the series. Make him a bit more like Brock or Paul.

Others will attempt to excuse Ash's loss in the Indigo League, May's loss in the Hoenn GF and Dawn's loss in the Sinnoh GF by saying that it was their first times. Yes, it was their first time but that doesn't mean that they CAN win on their first time. The writers should've developed them in time for the league/GF where their growth, experience and knowledge as Trainers/Coordinators culminates in them winning the tournament (in a non-bulls**t way, of course) and taking their first steps into becoming the best Trainer/Coordinator in the world. We should NOT have to see them fail and be okay with it.

Also, a thought occurred to me not to long ago: in realistic terms, a trainer CAN win a Pokemon League Tournament the first time around if he train his Pokemon hard enough for years until he or she is more than ready for the League. There are probably over 60 participants in each league tournament and the competition tends to vary. There are experienced Trainers who competed in Leagues before and Trainers who are relatively new to Leagues but who says that Trainers competing in a League for the first time can't come out on top. It might not seem "right" but who says that it can't happen?

I totally agree with this, but I'd like to point out that the Lily of the Valley Conference was the only one with around 60 participants. The rest of the leagues were well into the hundreds. The Ever Grande Conference had over 600 participants.

Unfortunately for the Anime, they can't exactly have Ash spend THAT much time in a region so obviously they have the League shortly after Ash gets his 8th badge. Though why they can't do a simple Time Skip to years/months later at the league is beyond me.

Well, I believe there is a short timeskip each time. I'm positive that there was a month or so between Ash's 8th badge and the Pokemon league in Kanto and Hoenn. I'd imagine league badges expire each year as well.

Also, who in their right mind would continue to watch the Anime in hopes that Ash would win a League soon? It's be about 15 years and more than half of the Pokemon fanbase stopped watching the Anime YEARS ago.

I doubt that's true. Maybe half of the original fanbase (Probably more), but the anime is still as popular as ever. The developers know they can get away with rehashing the same concepts over and over again because their target audience is children. The old fans leave while new ones come in to replace them.

 

[matt0044]

Many would argue that they're not very likable characters, so maybe that's why not many of us root for them.

Then why watch the show?

I believe the biggest problem here is that "our heroes", particularly Ash, don't look or act like champions. Ash has the personality of a little kid, and in many people's eyes he's a terrible trainer. The writers would need to develop Ash into more of a competent trainer over the course of the region. I actually thought Sinnoh did I decent job of this, but Unova destroyed it. It's as if they wiped his memory.

Personally, I don't think that you have to look like a Champion but rather just act mature and experienced like a Champion.

I believe that the writers need to stop "resetting" Ash. He was completely clueless when he first began his journey and he still gives off that impression. Toward the end of each saga Ash looks like he actually knows what he's doing. If the writers were planning on letting him win they would need to let him be more competent earlier in the series. Make him a bit more like Brock or Paul.

Brock, yes. Paul, not so much. Maybe in training them to make the stronger but not in treating them like tools.

Well, I believe there is a short timeskip each time. I'm positive that there was a month or so between Ash's 8th badge and the Pokemon league in Kanto and Hoenn. I'd imagine league badges expire each year as well.

Are you sure about that last part? I can imagine not being able to enter a league with the same set of badges as last time though.

 

[Kirbychu]

Then why watch the show?

It's Pokemon.

Personally, I don't think that you have to look like a Champion but rather just act mature and experienced like a Champion.

That's pretty much what I meant by "look".

Brock, yes. Paul, not so much. Maybe in training them to make the stronger but not in treating them like tools.

Paul acts like an experienced trainer. You can just tell by his strategies in battle. Ash acts likes this too towards the end of each saga, but then it's as if he becomes a novice again. When you compare the Ash of Hoenn to the Ash of now it feels like he's barely improved at all.

Anyways, Brock and Paul both possess a vast knowledge of moves and strategies when it comes to Pokemon battling. If Ash were to become a champion it'd make sense for him to display such knowledge. Just take look at Tyson and Tobias, they obviously knew what they were doing.

Are you sure about that last part? I can imagine not being able to enter a league with the same set of badges as last time though.

I don't think it's ever been addressed in the anime, it's just what I think.

 

[MantisboyN]

I'd say that if Ash was to go to the next league without restarting is team as he's been doing lately, he could do pretty well. Tobias would be a problem, so he might wanna pick up his Primape already!

 

[matt0044]

I'd say that if Ash was to go to the next league without restarting is team as he's been doing lately, he could do pretty well. Tobias would be a problem, so he might wanna pick up his Primape already!

Ah, Tobias A.K.A. Mr. I'm-here-for-the-sole-purpose-of-preventing-Ash-from-winning-and-nothing-else. They should've named him Trollbias (hey, that fits).