Is it unreasonable for us to expect Misty to return?

[PorygonSquared]

Well, technically it's not "newly found", but I did have it for about three years.

Do you even know what confidence is? Considering how you absolutely recoil at any criticism, no, you don't.

Maybe because they didn't want it to be far too easy? I mean, they could have wanted to wait until they have low expectations and then spring out and surprise us. (I mean, Mayumi Iizuka DID hint at a return to the anime in the blog, after all [or at least, that's how Zhen Lin's article was worded.].) And even IF they didn't want Misty to return, they will bring her back, soon enough, especially since I have a Global Boycott cooking up (I'm participating in this Boycott, BTW. Have been since May the 25th.)

Ooh, a boycott. How utterly threatening, a US American attempting to boycott a Japanese franchise and yet calling it global. Then again, I suppose it's typical for the US government and media to impose their worldviews on everyone else, so that's not surprising.

They are both bad, yes. I'm just saying that there's virtually no chance that people have never heard of other Genders, whileas with Racism, while it is still just as bad, it at least has a chance (note, it's almost a tiny one, but still), that the people who made the comment had absolutely no idea that that's not how the race they are discriminating against is like.

Also, in regards to how May and Dawn were considered sexist Stereotypes, while fanservice is one thing (though, since MY definition of "Fanservice" also includes the participant in it actually WANTING to do such a thing and being overjoyous, technically speaking, Misty barely even HAD any fanservice, if at all), It's more in regards to their personality (I mean, they acted like... well... vain and whiney airheads, similar to the Fiorello girls and the LH characters (let me speak NO MORE of them.).

Dear matter, attempting to seize control over a children's TV show is not enough for you? Now you have to go ahead and control the English language by imposing YOUR definition of words on everyone?

Wow, May and Dawn sure are horrible. I mean, aggressive and short-tempered traits are not character flaws at all. And no character can have flaws, can they? They all have to be perfect little Mary Sues.
In fact, they are so horrible that no girl could possibly like them. Oh wait, girls do like them! Oh horrid fate, those poor numerous females being brainwashed by the horrible creators of Pokemon into becoming sexist stereotypes. We must put a stop to this by interfering in another country's franchise.
You'd make a great US president.

Uggh... I can't believe I have to explain those... animals again...

Sigh, ok, in the Episode "Princess vs. Princess", when they announced the Queen of the Princess festival Contest, almost all of the girls in the store [if not almost all of the girls at the festival] squealed like animals (and not to mention trampled over Ash, Brock, Pikachu, James, and Meowth). The only ones who didn't act like that were Misty and Jessie. I compared May and Dawn to those two (and I would have mentioned all the girls in Love Hina as well, but I won't) because they seemed far too similar in terms of personality to those girls.

So if Jessie didn't act like that, why not support her? After all, she's actually on the show.

 

[Vernikova]

Weedle: How many of those things were actually important to the overall quest?

Those things you listed are all pretty minor, don't you think?

Dawn's role in movie 11 was much more than what Misty did.

May wasn't on par with Ash, but did more than Misty in the movies.

Porygon please don't insult America. It's pretty insulting to me.

 

[Jorah]

Well, it's not like Dawn's reasonings for joining Ash's gang were completely sound, either. Heck, Brock's reasonings for rejoining Ash in Sinnoh was also not quite sound either (in fact, the way they did the scene of his return made it seem like he didn't WANT to nor intend to return to Ash's company, and that the only reason he did return was because his trucker girlfriend ditched him.)

Tracy was some quick-fix character, IMO. I wasn't on about how they came to travel together, anyway. Brock has always seemed like that, wanting to leave Ash and co. via any girl, I mean.

Maybe because they didn't want it to be far too easy? I mean, they could have wanted to wait until they have low expectations and then spring out and surprise us. (I mean, Mayumi Iizuka DID hint at a return to the anime in the blog, after all [or at least, that's how Zhen Lin's article was worded.].) And even IF they didn't want Misty to return, they will bring her back, soon enough, especially since I have a Global Boycott cooking up (I'm participating in this Boycott, BTW. Have been since May the 25th.)

SOVA is probably way bigger and all it achieved was most of the fandom hating them. You and a few people not buying stuff isn't going to make a dent when there are millions of fans around the world.

Wouldn't it have been a bit easier if he... you know... got a new VA change instead? I mean, the Japanese obviously didn't have any trouble changing Giovanni's VA when his old one croaked.

It's probably the reason Giovanni (him, not in Meowth's fantasies) doesn't pop up much.

Actually, I'm not sure if the chasing girls thing is even More than that. In fact, if anything, it seemed less than that, considering how it's a common cliche and it degrades a character. And also, I DO happen to sketch/draw stuff as well, so implying that sketching and drawing stuff seems to be almost nothing to a character is kinda insulting. Just FYI, of course.

For a TV show, it is more interesting. Not that I find it funny anymore.

They are both bad, yes. I'm just saying that there's virtually no chance that people have never heard of other Genders, whileas with Racism, while it is still just as bad, it at least has a chance (note, it's almost a tiny one, but still), that the people who made the comment had absolutely no idea that that's not how the race they are discriminating against is like.

I see, you're talking about stereotypes. Well, you can still discriminate by not going along with stereotypes, and stereotypes can sometimes be true, although it can not be nice to admit.

Also, in regards to how May and Dawn were considered sexist Stereotypes, while fanservice is one thing (though, since MY definition of "Fanservice" also includes the participant in it actually WANTING to do such a thing and being overjoyous, technically speaking, Misty barely even HAD any fanservice, if at all), It's more in regards to their personality (I mean, they acted like... well... vain and whiney airheads, similar to the Fiorello girls and the LH characters (let me speak NO MORE of them.).

Uggh... I can't believe I have to explain those... animals again...

Sigh, ok, in the Episode "Princess vs. Princess", when they announced the Queen of the Princess festival Contest, almost all of the girls in the store [if not almost all of the girls at the festival] squealed like animals (and not to mention trampled over Ash, Brock, Pikachu, James, and Meowth). The only ones who didn't act like that were Misty and Jessie. I compared May and Dawn to those two (and I would have mentioned all the girls in Love Hina as well, but I won't) because they seemed far too similar in terms of personality to those girls.

May liked to buy clothes (in about 1 episode), looked in a mirror once and was obsessed with food. Dawn likes her hair looking nice when it went spiky (and also had the clothes thing in DP1). Girls are probably more self-concious at a younger age than boys and, honestly, I don't think those 2 things amount to much. And hey, I know loads of boys obsessed with their hair. If Ash was like "hey, stop battling and do the washing up!!" then I could see what you mean. But Brock does the stereotypical housewife stuff.

 

[PorygonSquared]

Porygon please don't insult America. It's pretty insulting to me.

Sorry. I was attempting to play on the fact that Weedle brings up comparisons to the USA in so many of his posts, but I'll try to control myself next time.

 

[4th Gen Matt]

Haha maybe.

Dawn + Misty catfight anyone?
xD

 

[Spinor]

I swear, If I hear about ONE MORE Misty Boycott, my brain will implode and I beat the living crap out of my brother for no reason and make a black hole to suck up the whole damn earth >:(

Seriously. It is very UNREASONABLE to even think about Misty coming back.

If you don't like it, either get over or just don't watch the damn show anymore

Sheeze, I think my brain EXploded right now...

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Do you even know what confidence is? Considering how you absolutely recoil at any criticism, no, you don't.

I DO have confidence! If I didn't, I would never have gone through with the Boycott.

Ooh, a boycott. How utterly threatening, a US American attempting to boycott a Japanese franchise and yet calling it global. Then again, I suppose it's typical for the US government and media to impose their worldviews on everyone else, so that's not surprising.

You DO realise that several of the Misty fans on Pokecommunity, Serebiiforums, and BMGf aren't Americans, right? several of these foreign Misty fans actually AGREED with my boycott! I intended the global boycott to actually BE global than just an American one (In fact, I also told all of the Misty fans on their clubs to gather signatures around their areas of the world.)

Dear matter, attempting to seize control over a children's TV show is not enough for you? Now you have to go ahead and control the English language by imposing YOUR definition of words on everyone?

HAH, MY DEFINITION?! Maybe you have forgotten, but I have an actual proof as to how Fanservice has to have the participants actually enjoying it! Remember... THIS?!

Wow, May and Dawn sure are horrible. I mean, aggressive and short-tempered traits are not character flaws at all. And no character can have flaws, can they? They all have to be perfect little Mary Sues.
In fact, they are so horrible that no girl could possibly like them. Oh wait, girls do like them! Oh horrid fate, those poor numerous females being brainwashed by the horrible creators of Pokemon into becoming sexist stereotypes. We must put a stop to this by interfering in another country's franchise.
You'd make a great US president.

all right, don't. If you don't stop this right now, I'll be forced to post a restraining order on you. (sheesh, it's no wonder most misty fans don't like you. I mean, you're acting very annoying, who would like that.).

Also, maybe it hasn't dawned on you yet, but several girls are currently getting Bulimia and Anorexia because of a certain thing involving Modeling magazines and things like Playboy. Plus, several girls are currently getting into trouble because they are mimicing starlets such as Paris Hilton. I mean, if they can mimic several negative and inappropriate characterizations (both behavioral and physical), they can certainly mimic May and Dawn.

So if Jessie didn't act like that, why not support her? After all, she's actually on the show.

Because she is a bad guy, and I don't support evil things. and anyways, she's becoming more like a female anime stereotype by the day, crying over spilt milk, becoming even more vain than before, and actually appeared topless in a recent episode (however, it was only implied.), so she can't be supported any longer, anyways.

@Beware of Dark Lugia: since it is under the definition of Verb, then, not contributing to the quest or not, it still counts as doing something, nevertheless.

Besides, one can argue what May, Dawn, and even ASH does doesn't Actually contribute to the main quest (that is, if Ash even HAS one, since we don't even know what a Pokemon Master is supposed to be, anyways.), in regards to May and Dawn, the only thing that even CONTRIBUTES to their main quests is the Grand Festival (since it's location is fixed and there is no other in the region), I mean, even if they do lose to a contest, they challenge another contest, anyways, which means there's no "official" ribbon (then again, there is technically no "official" gym badge either, since it's implied in the anime that there are more than just eight gyms a region.).

Also, Misty actually SAVED Ash's life in a Movie, AND was the first one to identify Ash as the chosen one, and she gave the confidence for Ash to do that task, what did May do in her movie? nurse Manaphy and possibly saving Samiya. When Manaphy was kidnapped by Phantom again, she didn't even TRY to save it, she instead stood there like a coward (even IF she can't swim as fast as the torpedo, she can still send out her squirtle, since it can match it.), leaving Ash to end up saving Manaphy as a SSJ-esque form. In fact, the only important thing she ever did in that movie was put some of the crystals into the crown (If Misty raising Togepi doesn't count as an important thing, then May raising Manaphy doesn't either.). Get RID of the mindset that battles are what proves someones worth. I mean, if battling is all they've ever done, it will only end in disaster.

 

[Vernikova]

I agree with the unreasonability (wha?) but you can be less insulting Advance.

Misty went to save his life how long after he was in the water?

By now, we should see that Ash's quest to win the league. Dawn's and May's are to win the Grand Festival. Misty's is Water Pokémon Master. Being a gym leader and not an adventurer is a step in the right direction.

 

[Jorah]

You know, this has to be the most interesting thread in the anime section. It's something close to a debate, at last. I don't know whether to watch or join in. Well, it's too late for thinking...(11:20pm here)

Anyway, a global boycott usually implies tens of thousand at the absolute minimum and...I don't think you're quite there yet. It doesn't really matter if about 10 people in other countries moan about wanting Misty back, it won't make a difference, so I agre with AdvancedK9. I'd add more, but I'm sleepy.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Misty went to save his life how long after he was in the water?

Apparantly quite some time, since Pikachu was trying to wake him up and it couldn't.

By now, we should see that Ash's quest to win the league. Dawn's and May's are to win the Grand Festival. Misty's is Water Pokémon Master. Being a gym leader and not an adventurer is a step in the right direction.

heh, winning a league? No, Ash's Goal was explicitly stated to become the greatest Pokemon Master, and it's still referred to as such. Dawn and May's Goals are to be the worlds greatest Pokemon Coordinator. You are correct with Misty's goal, though, I'll give you credit for that. However, I must say that being a gym leader, whose sole purpose is to lose against newbie trainers just to hand out a badge, won't get her any closer to her goal (if anything, it will get her farther from it.). I mean, if JJM are considered to be pathetic by the fanbase for losing to even the weakest/most inexperienced of pokemon/trainers, then Gym Leaders won't be any different, and thus, she won't be the greatest Water Pokemon Master.

Also, My Petition involves 900 to 1000 people participating, and added to several petitions adds up to over 33,000+, which they (the 900 or 1000, i mean) most likely would participate, as I told them that we would need to boycott if the case may be.

BTW, consider this to be my last post on this thread. If you have a problem with my viewpoints, take it to my userpage, since I don't want it to erupt into a complete flamewar

 

[Vernikova]

But this won't turn into a flame war. I hope.

I know Ash's quest is to become the best. But in every region his top priority is to win the league. Just like in every region. Win the league or beat the frontier brains.

The purpose of being a gym leader isn't to lose but to test them until they beat her. She could be like Giovanni and beat everyone. They could always come back for a rematch after they get the other badges.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Well, since you put it that way, I guess I could make one more post. However, I still should post sparingly.

I know Ash's quest is to become the best. But in every region his top priority is to win the league. Just like in every region. Win the league or beat the frontier brains.

Which is kind of a pointless goal, since Ash doesn't even win any of the leagues besides the OI, and as much as I hate having to point this out (since I personally don't believe him in regards to future events), according to what Hidaka said in his interview, he isn't GOING to win any leagues, Period (or, at least not any of the leagues that are featured in the games).

The purpose of being a gym leader isn't to lose but to test them until they beat her. She could be like Giovanni and beat everyone. They could always come back for a rematch after they get the other badges.

I don't see that as comforting, since it also implies that she's holding back, which really doesn't make it a good fight.

Take Dragon Ball Z, for example. When Goku encounters Vegeta (or rather, his ghost) a little bit after Super Buu absorbs Gohan, Vegeta is upset with Goku since Goku hid his SSJ3 power from him (Goku and Vegeta (or rather, Majin Vegeta) had fought each other earlier as SSJ2s (or, at least, Goku was SSJ2, it was debatable if Majin Vegeta was actually a SSJ2 at that point or if that was just his natural form.), and it was quite evident that he had SSJ3 by that point, but he decided to keep it at SSJ2 just to have a fair fight.).

Besides, none of my teachers lower their intellectual (or physical, in the case of coaches in atheletic events) potential just to give the little people a chance to ace the test/workout. I just view it as almost like JJM's habit of losing.

 

[Vernikova]

Which is kind of a pointless goal, since Ash doesn't even win any of the leagues besides the OI, and as much as I hate having to point this out (since I personally don't believe him in regards to future events), according to what Hidaka said in his interview, he isn't GOING to win any leagues, Period (or, at least not any of the leagues that are featured in the games).

But didn't you say we shouldn't listen to him earlier.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

But didn't you say we shouldn't listen to him earlier.

Yes, I did. That's the reason why I stated that I HATED the fact that I had to use him as an example when I posted it.

 

[Vernikova]

Yes, I did. That's the reason why I stated that I HATED the fact that I had to use him as an example when I posted it.

Oh, I see now. Sorry got a little confused there.

 

[Spinor]

This won't turn into a flame war unless more Misty fans try to beat me to sPit

Ash winning leagues? The writers probably used dice and RoShamBo to decide that. Misty's disappearance was truly discussed and fair. Why? Because Pokemon contests were the best idea the writers ever had since sliced bread :P.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Ash winning leagues? The writers probably used dice and RoShamBo to decide that. Misty's disappearance was truly discussed and fair. Why? Because Pokemon contests were the best idea the writers ever had since sliced bread :P.

Meh, I really wouldn't really call it "truly discussed and fair", considering how they kept Brock despite his being, by general consensus, deadbeat and not doing anything, just being stale. Also, Pokemon contests weren't really on the writers minds when they created May (If it was, I sincerely doubt they would have played her up to be a Gym battler and yet change her profession to Coordinator at almost the last minute (since her interest in contests came about when in Rustboro City, which was right where Roxanne was.).), and even if it was on their minds, they created Pokemon Contests long BEFORE Hoenn came into place. It was in the episode "Princess vs. Princess", the whole "Queen of the Princess Festival Contest" thing, and, Ironically enough, Misty was actually the first Female Protagonist to actually Participate in a pokemon contest.

also, statistics-wise, Contests aren't really the best thing that the writers ever did. Otherwise, why do they keep playing it as almost nothing [even going as far as to just replace May with Dawn when she's only going to go for the same goal]. I mean, if it was truly as popular as you claim, they would have not only brought it back for D/P, but they also would have actually incorporated some elements of Contests from the Anime into the games [I.E., contests being almost everywhere you look, an actual main goal of becoming a coordinator, and a Grand Festival.].

 

[Jorah]

This won't turn into a flamewar as long as people don't start taking things personally "you suck!!!11" etc...

Meh, I really wouldn't really call it "truly discussed and fair", considering how they kept Brock despite his being, by general consensus, deadbeat and not doing anything, just being stale.

Which is the same as Misty. They were going to get a new girl in, so one of the stale ones had to go. They probably thought it would make Misty look bad if they kept her in the background while another girl took the lead and kept Brock as some kind of unneeded mentor. Or, they just liked the 2 boys, 1 girl group and couldn't think of any goal for the other boy...funny, I just remembered Max here.

Also, Pokemon contests weren't really on the writers minds when they created May (If it was, I sincerely doubt they would have played her up to be a Gym battler and yet change her profession to Coordinator at almost the last minute (since her interest in contests came about when in Rustboro City, which was right where Roxanne was.).), and even if it was on their minds, they created Pokemon Contests long BEFORE Hoenn came into place. It was in the episode "Princess vs. Princess", the whole "Queen of the Princess Festival Contest" thing, and, Ironically enough, Misty was actually the first Female Protagonist to actually Participate in a pokemon contest.

May said she did not like Pokemon at the start, and whenever Ash mentioned gyms she shown absolutly no interest, and actually, shown dislike towards them. She never wanted to go to the gym from what I remember and contests were her first interest, showing that they probably planned on her entering contests anyway. The writers would have known having 2 sets of gym battles would not make anyone happy.

Princess VS Princess was just girls battling, they didn't really make an effort to make their Pokemon look pretty while battling which is the whole point in contests.

also, statistics-wise, Contests aren't really the best thing that the writers ever did. Otherwise, why do they keep playing it as almost nothing [even going as far as to just replace May with Dawn when she's only going to go for the same goal].
I mean, if it was truly as popular as you claim, they would have not only brought it back for D/P,

Huh? Contests are both in the anime and games for DP. If contests were unimportant in the anime, they would have scrapped it by DP or even Battle Frontier, so it appears to have worked well. May started off hating Pokemon, and finding out she liked contests while Dawn wanted to do what her mother had done, and become a winner of a grand-festival.

but they also would have actually incorporated some elements of Contests from the Anime into the games [I.E., contests being almost everywhere you look, an actual main goal of becoming a coordinator, and a Grand Festival.].

A lot have people have said they would want anime-style contests in the games, which would make game contests far more interesting. People have also suggested you be able to pick your gial as a co-ordinator. But the game makers just decide to add stuff little by little because they're too lazy to make a new games style, I suppose. Not that that makes a difference since Platinum is the fastest selling DS game ever.

Which is kind of a pointless goal, since Ash doesn't even win any

Goals are something you strive to achieve, not get straight away.

of the leagues besides the OI, and as much as I hate having to point this out (since I personally don't believe him in regards to future events), according to what Hidaka said in his interview, he isn't GOING to win any leagues, Period (or, at least not any of the leagues that are featured in the games).

Not until the end of the games, at least.

 

[Precious Tears]

Woah! Jorah what a long reply! Anyway, if I were the story maker I would make them in either one of the ways:
1) Ash + Misty + New female character (What do you say Nintendo? 2 eye candies!! XDD)
2) Ash + Misty + Brock + New female character
3) Ash + New male character + New female character

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

This won't turn into a flamewar as long as people don't start taking things personally "you suck!!!11" etc...

Fair enough.

Which is the same as Misty. They were going to get a new girl in, so one of the stale ones had to go. They probably thought it would make Misty look bad if they kept her in the background while another girl took the lead and kept Brock as some kind of unneeded mentor. Or, they just liked the 2 boys, 1 girl group and couldn't think of any goal for the other boy...funny, I just remembered Max here.

Err, isn't Ash and Team Rocket getting stale as it is? Heck, technically speaking, Ash doesn't even HAVE a definite goal (his goal is to become the World's Greatest Pokemon Master, and that thing is not even given a clear definition in the Anime.), they didn't remove them from the main cast. Besides, Misty did far more than Brock did, at least, and arguably did far more than May and even Ash. (also, most of their (May and Dawns, I mean) movies involved them holding a pokemon, which, considering how people argue that Togepi being held wasn't important, then, Titular pokemon or not, May holding Manaphy and Dawn holding Shaymin aren't important to the plot either, using that same logic.)

May said she did not like Pokemon at the start, and whenever Ash mentioned gyms she shown absolutly no interest, and actually, shown dislike towards them. She never wanted to go to the gym from what I remember and contests were her first interest, showing that they probably planned on her entering contests anyway. The writers would have known having 2 sets of gym battles would not make anyone happy.

And yet they had her going out to get her own starting pokemon, deciding to be a pokemon trainer despite hating pokemon, and even accepting a Gym badge case from her father when she could have just as easily refused it. I mean, she may not have had interests in it, but that doesn't mean that she didn't plan on taking on gyms (Remember, Brock was extremely unenthusiastic, and disliked, being a Gym Leader, and he did it anyways, only because he needed to support his family since his parents ditched them. Heck, Misty was unenthusiastic at running the Cerulean city gym, and only did it because her sisters weren't good battlers (though Daisy was getting better.).). I mean, if she didn't like pokemon from the start, then why would she even start being a Pokemon Trainer? If she didn't want to, then she shouldn't have done it.

Princess VS Princess was just girls battling, they didn't really make an effort to make their Pokemon look pretty while battling which is the whole point in contests.

I'm pretty sure they played it out to be similar to a Pokemon Contest due to the way it was made out to be was similar. Heck, they even referred to it explicitly as a Contest. I mean, if they did want to differentiate them, wouldn't they, you know, just call it a Tournament or something? Heck, the way they battled did seem stylish a little bit. Plus, the Emcee said something that hinted at the Kimono thing being an appeal round (or something close to it), as well as that the contest not only has to involve stylish things (or in Jessie's words, a "beauty contest"), it also had to deal with battles, which was, in effect, what Pokemon Contests were for.

Huh? Contests are both in the anime and games for DP. If contests were unimportant in the anime, they would have scrapped it by DP or even Battle Frontier, so it appears to have worked well. May started off hating Pokemon, and finding out she liked contests while Dawn wanted to do what her mother had done, and become a winner of a grand-festival.

Really? Just because it's in the games in DP doesn't mean it's actually important. Heck! Contests in the games always get the short end of the stick (they are almost never part of the main plot.), and anyways, even the Anime flebs up on the importance (I mean, they keep the same guy to do gym battling runs between generations, no matter how stale he gets, yet they replace the coordinators come a new generation just to do the same goal over and over again? I mean, that seems to hint that contests are expendable, and thus, unimportant.)

A lot have people have said they would want anime-style contests in the games, which would make game contests far more interesting. People have also suggested you be able to pick your gial as a co-ordinator. But the game makers just decide to add stuff little by little because they're too lazy to make a new games style, I suppose. Not that that makes a difference since Platinum is the fastest selling DS game ever.

Actually, I was thinking they should actually choose their own goal in the games and NOT have it be pre-set by what gender you choose. Still, good point.

Goals are something you strive to achieve, not get straight away.

Well, yeah, but it seems pointless nonetheless to even try and achieve winning the Pokemon League, especially since he already won against a tournament where it's battlers are far stronger than even the elite 4.

Not until the end of the games, at least.

Well, they can still replace Ash with another character.