Suggestion: Musicians are Artists too, right?

[ZoroStar]

EDIT #1: I just realized that there was another thread bringing up this issue, but the GE solution is growing more obsolete by the day.
Please, PLEASE consider another solution other than one single thread.

I hope I'm not overstepping any boundaries.
But I feel that this is a glaring issue that hasn't received a proper solution.

A little while back, I found myself confused on where a musician would be able to upload their work.
I was redirected by a member of a forum to a single thread, the "Creative Media Showcase" thread in "General Entertainment" subforum.

What really bugs me is that it's not put in the extensive "Create and Discover" list that physical artists get.
There's no place for a musician in a spot that we should be in!

To make matters worse, I see almost everybody in the "Creative Media Showcase" get passed up by those who are just looking, and hoping, to get their own works showcased.
Nobody is going to browse through a single, massive, blatantly disorganized thread to see if there's anything worth listening to.
Nobody on this planet has that kind of patience, I know that I don't.

There is an urgent need for us to have our own subforum.
Imagine a place where we can showcase our works in Discography (Gallery-like) threads under our own names,
a place where we can offer our services to those who need it, like Rom Hackers or Game Designers who'd like original music for their games (just an example),
a place where we can share advice and discuss music production and composition as a whole,
all without being unwillingly passed up by other musicians.

[ LINK IF THE IMAGE DOESN'T WORK ]

A primitive example, but an example nonetheless.

In terms of categories, it could mirror the "Art & Design" format, save that the gallery should be called a discography, but I already covered that.
I don't feel that I should need to go into detail on how to fully utilize a subforum, you guys have done so countless of times already.

I would be more than happy with the implementation of a simple musician's subforum in PC.
Thank you for your time.​

 

[ZoroStar]

Hi there!

There was an entire thread around this suggestion, and the end result of that is that it apparently isn't going to happen because maccrash just hasn't seen the demand for it in General Entertainement. Have you spoken to maccrash about this by any chance?

I can't say that I have...
At this point, I think I'd be a little too afraid to. Aha.

I guess I was kind of hoping that this would supply some demand for the issue to be solved.
I'm a musician myself and I would like to have a place to submit my work without having to worry about being passed up by others.
I don't feel like the single thread is a fair offer at all. It's disorganized and I feel stressed just looking at it.

 

[maccrash]

posting this from my phone in an attempt to prevent this from going around in more circles, but don't be afraid to talk to me!!! it's ok. I'll gladly listen if anyone actually has a concrete plan about this. but just because one more person is rallying for this doesn't automatically make the demand for it shoot up. if more talk happens I'll respond to this tomorrow morning when I get on my computer, but do read up on that thread we had about this a week or so ago if you haven't.

 

[ZoroStar]

Apologies. My goal wasn't to stress you out, but it was just making a point that there was a previous thread that had gone in circles over the very same topic.

You didn't stress me out! I stress myself out, honestly.
And yeah, I realized that a few moments too late. That's completely my bad and I will read over the topic as soon as I can!

 

[ZoroStar]

posting this from my phone in an attempt to prevent this from going around in more circles, but don't be afraid to talk to me!!! it's ok. I'll gladly listen if anyone actually has a concrete plan about this. but just because one more person is rallying for this doesn't automatically make the demand for it shoot up. if more talk happens I'll respond to this tomorrow morning when I get on my computer, but do read up on that thread we had about this a week or so ago if you haven't.

Aah hello!
You'll have to forgive me, I have absolutely terrible social anxiety and I have a really hard time with talking to people one-on-one (or in general, for that matter), you seem like a really nice person though!

If it's any worth, I have five years in experience when it comes to running a music-based forum.
If you'd like, we can have a formal discussion on this sort of thing, whether it's just the two of us or involving anyone who needs to be involved.

I will take a look at the previous thread again, I had only skimmed it the first time around and probably missed some major details.

Thank you for being patient with me!

 

[ZoroStar]

I wouldn't mind a section for this, as I often do video game ports and whatnot and having a place for it would be really cool, however, there needs to be more of a need for it as illustrated previously.

Also protip, the white text on your opening post is absurdly hard to read on light-colored styles. The colors almost blend together.

Situation understood.
Protip noted.

 

[Desert Stream~]

I think it would be cool, but I can't see myself going to it that much.

 

[Omicron]

Johnny wants discussion of music as an art, not as media. I understand that. But I don't think it will garner enough activity to hold on its own as a subforum, even.

In any case, I think the best way to go, hypothetically, would be to have a subforum in AD for music, see how it fares and if it has enough activity then transform it into a full fledged forum. But as Kirby said in the past thread, iit has been considered and the conclusion has been that there is not enough interest for it to work, to which I agree.

 

[Melody]

In reality, it's pretty much the only way to have this question not continuously appear here is to give the section a shot for once and for all. If it flops, then all the threads there are merged into GE and we end that chapter. If it all works out, then so be it, it works out and all is good with the world.

There's only solution to this problem, and that is giving a shot to music, to have it's own section where it belongs, or to reject the idea for good, once and for all. Because this will keep happening.

You keep saying that there's interest for such a uniquely tailored section. So work with what you have, work with maccrash and PROVE IT. It's far less impactful on the forum in general if one thread fails as opposed to a whole section which would need it's own moderator. Because I'm absolutely sure that moderator will be from the pool of existing mods first, that's almost always how Higher Staff has behaved and I don't blame them. So that's extra work for whoever they saddle with the job. So you have to prove to someone on staff that it's worth their time stepping up to take control over. That's how the UG got it's start. I doubt the staff will deviate from that sure-win formula so easily without being sure it's worth doing.

That is missing the point, however.

You create a subforum out of an active idea. Johnny, in the previous discussion about this, did not answer my question about the general activity level of musicians sharing music. Is it high? Is it low? If it's the former, then we wouldn't be having this circular discussion. If it's the latter, then you kind of have to care enough to work with the current moderator to make the idea come to fruition in perhaps a different form.

The thing is, the "sink or swim" logic seems good on paper, but this is the first time I've seen this suggestion pop up in all honesty in months (maybe maccrash has seen more but it doesnt seem like it), so that really goes to show you that the idea really isnt all that popular like its portrayed to be.

Honestly I agree with flight in this. Besides, shouldn't you be working this issue out directly with maccrash? I know you want better for musicians. I understand and support that! But I also believe that you should at least try to work with what exists first, and prove to the community that the additional considerations you are asking for are needed that desperately.

 

[ZoroStar]

I feel that there's a lot more fighting going on around this subject than there is direct cooperation and planning (or rather theorizing).
If something needs to be done, contacts need to be made and data needs to be collected and presented as a weighted piece to this proposal.

I can take from the previous thread that more complaints were made than actual progress, and that seems to be happening again now.

We need to cut the energy directed into begging and convincing people of the need and focus it more into presenting ideas on how we can make this sort of thing work.
Agreed?

 

[maccrash]

I don't see the point in writing a gargantuan post right now considering that discussion with regards to this has been entirely cyclical from the start, so I'm just going to say that none of my views on this have changed since my first post in the thread we had a couple weeks ago. and I'm not saying that my views can't change, but literally nothing has happened to sway me. of course, I'm open to swaying. sway me. but I'm gonna need some convincing -- I still don't see the demand for this, and I'm clearly not the only one who thinks that way. it's easy for someone interested in the section to shrug that off and act like it's a non-issue, but when you're one of two or three vocal supporters, perhaps it's time to take a step back and actually evaluate how much demand there is.

but yeah, I'd be willing to talk to anyone that interested in this just to hear your ideas, of course!

 

[Mana1]

If that's the case, perhaps I can get the ball rolling and start a new thread there with my work and start actually creating that demand. I'll PM you about it first though, because while I am aware of the Creative Media Showcase, I have a lot more than just one or two songs.

That sounds like the perfect first step, anyone else interested should really do the same. After that was said in the previous thread it's a little weird that nobody acted on it.

 

[ZoroStar]

That sounds like the perfect first step, anyone else interested should really do the same. After that was said in the previous thread it's a little weird that nobody acted on it.

It was never pushed to happen. People are going to have to know and be motivated in order for something like this to stand on it's own, and at that point, nobody had taken the steps to address anyone else about it.
It sounds more than reasonable to take these things slow, though we'd have to be a little more proactive with it, letting people know that "hey! This is an option now!"
Hopefully with the option in mind, we can see results and move to the next step and see where it takes us from there.
Supply follows demand.
Demand often needs encouragement.

 

[donavannj]

I won't answer to flight anymore because she conveniently leaves out my previous posts with every new I do. I did answer to that questions, read again.

To be fair, I don't think should be discussing this with maccrash at all, even when I tried to talk to him on skype, before posting in the thread. Why? Because he is a moderator, not an administrator; if I want a new section I should approach an administrator in any case. This should be the course of action:

Johnny: Hey admin, I want a new section for music.
Admin: Why?
(Convincing process going on)
Admin: You should do [Insert response here]

Guess what, I already did that. So instead of focusing on how bad I approached the subject, let's get to the point.

I explained in the previous thread why the idea won't have the same impact in GE. And Team Fail proves my point, he has something to contribute, why hasn't he done so yet? Because he has never been encouraged to do it. Why is he saying he will do it now? Because he has been encourage to do it as a first step. But the truth is that not many users care about PC as we do, and those will go to other places to do this, as maccrash said, instead of sharing their work here.

Just to clarify, I am not pushing to do anything, I'm the one being pushed and all I'm doing is arguing those people who try to refute my points, because I believe they are wrong. If I was pushing to do it, I wouldn't have waited until the next thread (this) to express myself again.

At this point, you'll just need to keep trying to get some semblance of activity going. It took mafia games several years to catch on with the community. So many false starts and failed mafia games due to members forgetting about having signed up before success at hosting them was finally had in the last couple years.

It may take you at least a year or two to cultivate the community to a level worth bringing forth. Maybe get some Supporters interested in it. You may experience several hopeful boom periods and several bust periods. Just keep trying and work with maccrash to make it happen.