Ok im going to post this. UU suspects Discussion thread.

[Dark Azelf]

So yeah i got annoyed with people on smogon theorymoning like crazy in their UU suspect thread aka "Gallade with Lum Berry beats Spirtomb always onoes stall is destroyed forever" >_> *coughelfstallsayssupcough*

Anyways, I also felt this necessary because i have been playing alot of UU lately, so without further hesitation lets get this underway.

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.


Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

---Gallade---

Notable sets ;

Gallade@Life Orb / Lum Berry
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Stone Edge / Leaf Blade / Psycho Cut

Gallade@Choice Band
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- X-Scissor / Night Slash / Shadow Sneak
- Psycho Cut
- Ice Punch / Leaf Blade / Stone Edge

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Background about Gallade :

HP/ATT/DEF/SPEED/SP.ATT/SP.DEF/BST

68 125 65 80 65 115 ---> 510

Psychic/Fighting

Gallade would be suspect because it can apparantly sweep teams easily thanks to it being able to beat all its so called counters like Slowbro, Weezing etc and having the movepool to back it up. It can also used status moves and Encore.

---Rhyperior---

Notable Sets;

Rhyperior@Life Orb
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn
- Earthquake

Rhyperior@Choice Band
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Fire Punch / Aqua Tail

Rhyperior@Leftovers
132 HP / 192 Atk / 16 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Megahorn / Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Rhyperior@Leftovers
252 HP / 252 DEF / 6 HP
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Roar

Background about Rhyperior:

HP/ATT/DEF/SPEED/SP.ATT/SP.DEF/BST

115 140 130 40 55 55 535

Rock/Ground

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Rhyperior is suspect because Solid Rock apparantly makes it hard to kill and it has massive physical stats. Its movepool is also good and can back up these physical stats allowing it to hit very hard. It is also fantastic defensively being one of the only pokemon who is a near 100% Honchkrow counter. With Hippopotas support it can even take special attacks quite well.

---Froslass---

Notable Sets;

Froslass@Focus Sash
252 SPEED / 252 SP.ATT / 6 HP
Timid / Naive Nature
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond / Ice Shard
- Ice Beam / Shadow Ball


Froslass@Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
252 SPEED / 252 SP.ATT / 6 HP
Timid Nature
- Trick / Hidden power Fighting
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Froslass@Petaya Berry
252 SPEED / 252 SP.ATT / 6 HP
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Background about Froslass:

HP/ATT/DEF/SPEED/SP.ATT/SP.DEF/BST

70 80 70 110 80 70 480

Ice/Ghost

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

"This pokemon is stupid, it gets 2 layers of Spikes up AT WORST" was the cry that made this suspect and also its varied movepool. Shadow Ball + Ice Shard also allow it to be an effecive anti lead a set which has come to light recently being able to beat other Froslass. It can also use moves like Confuse Ray and Thunderwave.

---Alakazam---

Notable Sets;

Alakazam@Choice Specs
252 sp.att / 252 speed / 6 hp
- Trick
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
- Signal Beam

Alakazam@Leftovers
24 HP / 252 SpA / 16 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Encore
- Psychic
- Signal Beam

Alakazam@Leftovers
152 HP / 176 SpD / 180 Spe
- Substitute
- Psychic
- Signal Beam / Focus Blast
- Calm Mind

Alakazam@Life Orb
252 sp.att / 252 speed / 6 hp
- Calm Mind
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
- Signal Beam

Alakazam@Light Clay
252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt / Encore
- Psychic / Encore
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Background about Alakazam:

HP/ATT/DEF/SPEED/SP.ATT/SP.DEF/BST

55 50 45 120 135 85 490

Psychic

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Alakazam has a very wide movepool and hits extememely hard on the special side makeing even Chansey shudder. Despite being Pursuit weak its still a very effective and can even set up other team mates with Screeens, Taunt and Encore.

---Raikou---

Notable Sets;

Raikou @ Leftovers
EVs: 68 HP/252 Spd/116 SAtk/72 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass/Ice/Fire/Water]
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute

Raikou @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 6 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Fighting/Grass/Ice/Water/Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball

Background about Raikou:

HP/ATT/DEF/SPEED/SP.ATT/SP.DEF/BST

90 85 75 115 115 100 580

Electric

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Raikou can set up on many of the special threats in the UU tier and boost its special offense and special defense to crazy high levels, making things like Milotic mere set up fodder and then sweep despite its shallow movepool. Raikou also uses much more varied HP types in uu to beat specific targets. I tcan set up screens and rest talk too but these arent often seen.

---Umbreon---

Notable Sets;

Umbreon@leftovers / Chople Berry
252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spd
Careful Nature
- Mean Look
- Baton pass
- Wish / Moonlight
- Taunt / Toxic / Yawn / Protect

Umbreon@leftovers
252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Payback
- Wish / Moonlight
- Taunt / Baton Pass / Yawn / Protect

Umbreon@leftovers
252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Speed
Careful Nature
- Payback
- Wish / Moonlight
- Taunt / Protect
- Toxic

Background about Umbreon:

HP/ATT/DEF/SPEED/SP.ATT/SP.DEF/BST

95 65 110 65 60 130 525

Dark

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.


Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Umbreons defenses are massive so it makes it easy to support the team. It can stall out the majority of the special side of UU very well with Toxic Wish and Protect and can trap/curse pass to set up powerful sweepers to run through the opponent surprizingly easy.

Ill post my opinions later, so what are your opinions/experiences on each? Discuss S+M!

 

[Aurafire]

Gallade - I ran into a lot of trouble with Gallade on the ladder, especially stupid SD sets. However, it does have decent checks like Spiritomb, Weezing, Slowbro, ect. Choice sets are easily revenged and it can often be out-predicted anyway. I'd like to see it kept in UU a bit longer so the metagame has a little time to adjust, (also so I can form a better opinion ;x)....As of right now, I wouldn't consider it too powerful for UU.

Rhyperior - Even with his questionable typing, this thing walls the crap out a ton of physical attackers. Max HP / Max Def @ Impish laughs at even super effective hits, I think RP Golem did like ~30% or some pathetic number like that. That still leaves you with 316 attack to mash stuff with, especially with two high powered STABs to play around with. His offensive sets coming off of base 140 attack leave UU physical wals struggling to keep up. While he may not have been of much use in OU, in UU he's a real wrecking ball, and imo too powerful to stay in the tier.

Froslass - An amazing lead, I find more often than not I can get at least two layers of spikes down no problem, which makes it incredibly easy to sweep later on. I feel like such a reliable lead has a devastating affect on the UU tier. I can't really say whether it's too effective to stay there or not, but after using the lead set on my UU team, I can say that it's borderline broken.

Alakazam - UU is filled with plenty of pursuiters/sucker punchers that can easily keep Zam in check. While it can obviously hit through a lot of stuff and screw stuff over with trick, I didn't think that he would be too much of a factor. Hope he stays in UU.

Raikou - This thing is godly, especially with screen support. It wasn't even funny how easily I was sweeping UU teams with this. Spike with Froslass -> Set up SR + screens with Uxie -> LO Raikou with one CM = win. It may just be because I love this thing alot, but I think it's way too powerful of a sweeper to stay in UU, as shown by the fact that even OU teams struggle with it.

Umbreon - Can't really say, I haven't seen to many of these in UU, but I can say that its support options as well as its walling abilities make it a pain to deal with. I don't really have an opinion though ;x

 

[Ooka]

For now I just want to comment on two, Rhyperior and Alakazam. In UU, Alakazam losses to any and every Physical Spiritomb (Unless they're stupid and get encored into a WoW or something), and of course anything else that can take a hit and Pursuit / Sucker Punch. I think it's fine. Rhyperior, on the other hand, is just beast. I was battling one in UU earlier and it only took like, 37% from a CB Scizor using Brick Break. It was probably defensive or something, but that still shows just how beastly it can be. It can Rock Polish and not have to worry about Scizor Bullet Punching it, so it's free to wreak havoc.

 

[Dark Azelf]

I dont know, i like this metagame and i havent really struggled with anything really much bar Froslass and thats only because of the Spikes which i usually spin away later in the match, but for people who dont run a spinner that it going to be annoying. I mean there are a few cool anti leads that own it (Ambipom, Sneasel, Kabutops, Rock Blast Rhyperior and Rock Blast Cloyster etc) but yeah. Im really on the fence with this tbh.

I must say though i love the support Umbreon sets, Umbreon sucks in OU but in UU it really gives him a chance to shine. Max hp/max s.def support Umbreon is insane, NP LO Mismagius can even muster 60% to it with HP Fight haha. Its honestly probably better than Chansey IMO.

Offensive Rhyperior is ok, but it still has problems with water types, with no speed evs Milotic still outspeeds it iirc lol.

I love defensive Rhyperior though, its really reliable and keeps alot of guys in check whilst at the same time not being too overwhelming.

As for Raikou..."lol" it has really sucked in every match ive seen it in, my only answer on one team i have is Payback Umbreon and it has won every single time. :|

Gallade hasnt swept me once either, Shadow Sneak Tomb is really good, same with Zam really.

Weezing is actually really good in this metagame now (use SLudge Bomb though, it NEEDS it because it destroys fire type switch ins 40 sp.att 2hko's Blaziken), it keeps these stupid SD grass types in check that everyone uses and also Gallade because no one uses Phycho Cut lol

I also love how everyone is like "stall is no longer viable with all these broken guys" <---I think i win lol ?

 

[Sebastien Loeb]

Rhyperior and Alakazam UU are ideas that make me come desire to abandon Shoddy to give me to another simulator [...] I don't understand, the tier UU is completely unbalanced, Pokèmon cannot be inserted with elevated potentiality as Rhyperior, Alakazam or other Pokémon as for instance Dugtrio. SpecsZam is an very difficult Pokémon to stop in UU, he can be Revenge-Killed from Scarfer and Priority Sweeper but in UU it would not have counters, Rock Polish-Rhyperior after one Rock-Polish alone to destroy the whole metagame UU (I excluded Milotic and Bulky Waters forcing to insert them in all the teams UU, centralizing the metagame UU) thanks to an attack equal to 416 in combo with Life Orb and Stealth Rock, the metagame UU risks to absolutely become really horrible according to my one man show opinion.

 

[Ooka]

It doesn't actually reach that much attack if you run Jolly (For Rock Polish). However, I will agree that CBRhyperior can damage plenty of stuff, and possibly even reach an OHKO on Milotic I believe (Of course, either way, a Critical hit will kill it regardless, and with Stone Edge having a high critical hit ration, plus the amount of times Milotic will be coming in, it's highly possible). So basically, I agree, but I don't think 416 is a reasonable number to be looking at.

 

[Dark Azelf]

I dont get how using a water type on your team is overcentralization thats bs and you know it and its not as if they dont have utility otherwise. I mean arent you gonna get swept by like Blaziken/Houndoom if you dont use a water type anyway?

Rhyperior doesnt "break the whole metagame" its still easy to check, with water types (i put 20 speed evs on Blastoise for this and it beats pretty much all of them), heck physically defensive grass types work too since Torterra and Venusaur can take a beating and can heal with Synthesis. Even junk like Donphan works and Weezing can switch in on 3/4 of your moveset and cripple you with a Burn. Its not likes its unbeatable, there are more mothods like scarfers but i shouldnt need to mention them since you can do that yourself. Its almost like people cant predict either anymore jeez.

Also the claim that Alakazam has no counters is kinda lol, Spiritomb, Chansey, Sp.Def Drapion and Skuntank and Umbreon and Registeel can serve as checks. Honchkrow can also check it and put it in a trap with Sucker and Pursuit, Dugrio can revenge kill with sucker. Dont even make me mention Sableye lol. Scarfers, Priority etc see i just named more than enough ways to deal with it.

Which brings me to my next point "counters" is frankly an archaic way to go about things and is irrelevant to making something uber or mence would be uber and so would dragonite and so would lucario. Both have ways to be dealt with, which is all that matters being able to deal with something in any way possible.

The main issue is with people is that they are not willing to adapt and be creative with sets and try new things.

For example I use a Bounce +Encore Jumpluff and it keeps Gallade in check and also grass types, and even things like Toxicroak and Mismagius etc its not a counter by any means but ive never been swept by a Gallade and my #2 status on the leaderboard proves my point. Just little things like this which people need to adapt to their game. Sure you ARE going to have to adapt anyway because its a whole new metagame, so you might aswell get a head start. :|