OS Ash vs BW Ash Who's The Better Trainer

[Vragon]

I honestly don't see how fair this comparing system is considering you're comparing three ashs (even if they are the same design) to one other ash, but eh.

If I'd compare I'd say his BW self would be better. While the anime itself wasn't great (definitely the dub) it the monster people make it out to be either. If anything, I find a lot of interesting elements happen in the BW anime and it goes into different areas while OS ash tended to stay in the same thing over and over usually. (Like you think Team Rocket was bad in the other, they were their worst in OS).

Onto mons,
Ash didn't have his mons of all those regions explicitly with him at all times, so I'll do his strongest team being Kanto. We've seen that Iris's dragonite can hold itself against Ash's charizard and we've seen that (even though Dragonite was enraged) Krookodile took it out. Not to mention it knows stone edge so I can give it that as well.

For his other mons the rest seem even or close to me. Onto his strategy things, Ash forgetting DP stuff is annoying, but not everything is completely bummeristic. He did pretty fine in the League and did okay in some gym battles. (Like his one against Clay where he showed competence in typing, Skyla where he used Pikachu and show it a but and Brycen where he had quick thinking and drew inspiration) He also wasn't given any of these badges like he was in OS so I can honestly feel he earned them.

Overall I do like both of these Ash's but if I had to make judgement on which was better, I'd say BW ash. Course OS ash is good to, but that's my ruling.

 

[Alexander18]

That is your opinion. To me his Johto team was good. I kinda forgot he did have a fully evolved Butterfree but he let it go so it could mate. He did caught Pokemon in their evolve forms Pidgeotto, exempt Muk and Primeape were already fully evolved when Ash caught them. Pidgeotto was caught in it's middle stage and it evolved into Pidgeot to protect the Pidgeys and Pidgeottos, after that it left Ash's team for good.

Of course that is my opinion. I just said that it was my opinion. I don't need to be reminded. I just see Johto as his weakest team. Again that is my opinion.

 

[Piii]

Of course that is my opinion. I just said that it was my opinion. I don't need to be reminded. I just see Johto as his weakest team. Again that is my opinion.

Johto team is not his weakest team. That is your opinion. His Johto team was handled perfectly and they did have some great battles, they weren't weak.


Back on topic.

OS Ash was much better because he actually developed as a Pokemon trainer in both regions Kanto/Johto.

 

[Vragon]

Johto team is not his weakest team. That is your opinion. His Johto team was handled perfectly and they did have some great battles, they weren't weak.


Back on topic.

OS Ash was much better because he actually developed as a Pokemon trainer in both regions Kanto/Johto.

Give reasons and evidence please. Saying "they aren't this and that is your opinion" doesn't mean much at all. It is his opinion and that is upon arrival. Handled perfectly is empty with telling us why, how and in what areas, cause handled perfectly is a tall order to cover. As for the topic, how is his team not relevant?

And well your much better reason again is vague as hell and needs to be explained. Overall explain your things and give us details and reasons supported by evidence.
I can give reasons why his Johto team wasn't great compared to BW for example,
His team was way more diverse in BW than Johto. Also, he much stronger mons as displayed in battles they won directly compared to ash's Johto team that wasn't even only team in that region or league.

So support your stuff and if you think they are then great. But understand that peeps are going to point out flaws that you can either defend or understand. Acknowledging flaws in something you like doesn't mean you don't like it anymore. If anything, it helps you get a better understanding and helps in some ways appreciate it for what it is.

 

[Alexander18]

Johto team is not his weakest team. That is your opinion. His Johto team was handled perfectly and they did have some great battles, they weren't weak.


Back on topic.

OS Ash was much better because he actually developed as a Pokemon trainer in both regions Kanto/Johto.

Why are you telling me it is my opinion when my post clearly says that is my opinion? I don't need reminding.

Also you are stating your opinion as fact because you are not using "in my opinion" at the end of your posts.

I happen to not agree with your opinion. I am allowed to like BW team over his OS team. Agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Piii]

Why are you telling me it is my opinion when my post clearly says that is my opinion? I don't need reminding.

Also you are stating your opinion as fact because you are not using "in my opinion" at the end of your posts.

I happen to not agree with your opinion. I am allowed to like BW team over his OS team. Agree to disagree and move on.

Give reasons and evidence please. Saying "they aren't this and that is your opinion" doesn't mean much at all. It is his opinion and that is upon arrival. Handled perfectly is empty with telling us why, how and in what areas, cause handled perfectly is a tall order to cover. As for the topic, how is his team not relevant?

And well your much better reason again is vague as hell and needs to be explained. Overall explain your things and give us details and reasons supported by evidence.
I can give reasons why his Johto team wasn't great compared to BW for example,
His team was way more diverse in BW than Johto. Also, he much stronger mons as displayed in battles they won directly compared to ash's Johto team that wasn't even only team in that region or league.

So support your stuff and if you think they are then great. But understand that peeps are going to point out flaws that you can either defend or understand. Acknowledging flaws in something you like doesn't mean you don't like it anymore. If anything, it helps you get a better understanding and helps in some ways appreciate it for what it is.

My opinions means just as much as everyone else.

I never said Ash's Johto team wasn't great, he did call on Charizard when he needed to used him in major battles, and he also have Snorlax , Kingler and Tauros, Muk and Heracross at Oak's that he can used in battles.

Ash's Johto team are just as strong as his BW team put together, in Johto he used both his Kanto and Johto team, since he did went to Johto with his Kanto team, his Johto team wasn't the only team he used in the Johto League.

I think you are trolling me.

 

[Vragon]

My opinions means just as much as everyone else.

Not saying it wasn't. Opinions for the matter are indeed subjective. I'm not debating your opinion or your right to have that opinion, I'm debating the factuality you brought in support.

I never said Ash's Johto team wasn't great, he did call on Charizard when he needed to used him in major battles, and he also have Snorlax , Kingler and Tauros, Muk and Heracross at Oak's that he can used in battles.

You said this earlier in the thread,

Johto team is not his weakest team. That is your opinion. His Johto team was handled perfectly and they did have some great battles, they weren't weak.


Back on topic.

OS Ash was much better because he actually developed as a Pokemon trainer in both regions Kanto/Johto.

and I quoted you saying that in my reply. I'm well aware you don't think the Johto team sucked and if the "Wasn't" was a typo I understand that you know his team wasn't the best either. The issue with having his team come back in Johto is that it cuts off the team from measurability and makes some of the impressive battles not related to that team alone (example battle frontier). So my point in this is that comparing BW ash to Johto ash in battling and team is unfair cause it's comparing 1 ash to 2 essentially. Also, why would original Ash be better than BW ash, not just his team makes him good and all.

Ash's Johto team are just as strong as his BW team put together, in Johto he used both his Kanto and Johto team, since he did went to Johto with his Kanto team, his Johto team wasn't the only team he used in the Johto League.

How do you figure they are as strong? I mean he did use both mons, but how does that make them even? Draw comparisons for this. Like compare the amount of mons, evolutions, typing, performance, etc.

I think you are trolling me.

I'm not trying to troll you. I'm pointing out problems with your reasoning for your arguments. If I was wanting to troll you, I would be way worse about it. If anything, I was debating whether or not you were trolling me. Regardless, take this as you will. All I can do is offer what I see wrong with your arguments and how you execute your points. If you don't want to listen or acknowledge what I say then fine. Say it to me and be done with it. I appreciate honesty and if you aren't going to debate my points then fine. That's all I can say. I didn't come to this thread (and post on your post) to debate your opinion's points because I felt your were wrong, but that you weren't making a good argument.

From my reasoning, this entire question is unfair since it doesn't specify a specific regional ash and therefore is a 3 to 1 comparison. But I digress. I wish you well

 

[Alexander18]

My opinions means just as much as everyone else.

I never said Ash's Johto team wasn't great, he did call on Charizard when he needed to used him in major battles, and he also have Snorlax , Kingler and Tauros, Muk and Heracross at Oak's that he can used in battles.

Ash's Johto team are just as strong as his BW team put together, in Johto he used both his Kanto and Johto team, since he did went to Johto with his Kanto team, his Johto team wasn't the only team he used in the Johto League.

I think you are trolling me.

No i am not anything. I am posting my opinion. No one said you could not post here. You are welcome to post here.

I am not gonna argue with you Ash's OS and BW team. I accept that you like the OS team more. Accept that i like BW team more.

Lets keep this civil and not accuse others of trolling. I am done arguing. Move on please.

 

[Piii]

No i am not anything. I am posting my opinion. No one said you could not post here. You are welcome to post here.

I am not gonna argue with you Ash's OS and BW team. I accept that you like the OS team more. Accept that i like BW team more.

Lets keep this civil and not accuse others of trolling. I am done arguing. Move on please.

\

Let's stay on topic.

Not saying it wasn't. Opinions for the matter are indeed subjective. I'm not debating your opinion or your right to have that opinion, I'm debating the factuality you brought in support.



You said this earlier in the thread,

and I quoted you saying that in my reply. I'm well aware you don't think the Johto team sucked and if the "Wasn't" was a typo I understand that you know his team wasn't the best either. The issue with having his team come back in Johto is that it cuts off the team from measurability and makes some of the impressive battles not related to that team alone (example battle frontier). So my point in this is that comparing BW ash to Johto ash in battling and team is unfair cause it's comparing 1 ash to 2 essentially. Also, why would original Ash be better than BW ash, not just his team makes him good and all.



How do you figure they are as strong? I mean he did use both mons, but how does that make them even? Draw comparisons for this. Like compare the amount of mons, evolutions, typing, performance, etc.


I'm not trying to troll you. I'm pointing out problems with your reasoning for your arguments. If I was wanting to troll you, I would be way worse about it. If anything, I was debating whether or not you were trolling me. Regardless, take this as you will. All I can do is offer what I see wrong with your arguments and how you execute your points. If you don't want to listen or acknowledge what I say then fine. Say it to me and be done with it. I appreciate honesty and if you aren't going to debate my points then fine. That's all I can say. I didn't come to this thread (and post on your post) to debate your opinion's points because I felt your were wrong, but that you weren't making a good argument.

From my reasoning, this entire question is unfair since it doesn't specify a specific regional ash and therefore is a 3 to 1 comparison. But I digress. I wish you well

Johto League

The battle one on one Process screening

Pikachu vs Salvadors Furret. Pikachu wins

Phanpy vs unown trainers Machoke. Phanpy wins

Cyndaquil vs unown trainer Exeggutor. Cyndaquil wins

Three on three battle

Ash vs Macey

Totodile vs Macey's Slugma. Macey recalled Slugma

Macey sent out Electabuzz.

Totodile vs Electabuzz. Ash recalled Totodile

Ash sent out Phanpy.

Phanpy vs Electabuzz. Macey recalled Electabuzz

Macey sent out Slugma

Phanpy vs Slugma. Phanpy wins

Macey sent out Quilava

Phanpy vs Quilava. Quilava wins

Ash sent out Totodile

Totodile vs Quilava. Quilava is recalled

Macey sent out Electabuzz

Electabuzz vs Totodile. Electabuzz wins

Ash sent out Squirtle

Squirtle vs Electabuzz. Squirtle wins

Macey sent out Quilava

Squirtle vs Quilava. Squirtle wins

Ash vs Jackson

Ash sent out Pikachu

Jackson sent out Azumarill

Pikachu vs Azumarill. Pikachu wins

Jackson sent out Magneton

Pikachu vs Magneton. Magneton wins

Ash sent out Cyndaquil

Cyndaquil vs Magneton. Magneton wins

Ash sent out Bulbasaur

Bulbasaur vs Magneton. Bulbasaur wins

Jackson sent out Meganium

Bulbasaur vs Meganium . both end in a draw


Ash vs Gary

Ash sent out Tauros

Gary sent out Nidoqueen

Tauros vs Nidoqueen. Nidoqueen wins

Ash sent out Heracross

Gary recalled Nidoqueen

Gary sent out Magmar

Second round

Magmar vs Heracross. Heracross wins

Gary sent out Blastoise

Blastoise vs Heracross. Blastoise wins

Ash sent out Muk

Muk vs Blastoise. Muk is recalled

Ash sent out Bayleef

Bayleef vs Blastoise. Blastoise wins

Gary recalled Blastoise

Ash sent out Snorlax

Gary sent out Arcanine

Snorlax vs Arcanine. Snorlax wins

Gary sent Nidoqueen back out

Snorlax vs Arcanine. Snorlax wins

Gary sent out Scizor

Snorlax vs Scizor. Scizor wins

Ash sent Muk back out

Muk vs Scizor. Scizor wins

Ash sent out Charizard

Charizard vs Scizor. Charizard wins

Gary sent out Golem

Charizard vs Golem. Charizard wins

Gary sent out Blastoise

Charizard vs Blastoise. Charizard wins

Ash vs Harrison

Ash sent out Pikachu

Harrison sent out Kecleon

Pikachu vs Kecleon. Pikachu wins

Harrison sent out Sneasel

Pikachu vs Sneasel. Sneasel wins

Ash sent out Totodile

Totodile vs Sneasel. Totodile wins

Harrison sent out Hypno

Totodile vs Hypno. Hypno wins

Ash sent out Snorlax

Snorlax vs Hypno. Snorlax wins

Ash recalled Snorlax

Harrison sent out Steelix



Steelix vs Noctowl. Steelix wins

Ash sent Snorlax back out

Snorlax vs Steelix. Snorlax wins


Harrison sent out Houndoom

Snorlax vs Houndoom. Houndoom wins

Ash sent out Bayleef

Bayleef vs Houndoom. Bayleef wins

Harrison sent out Blaziken

Blaziken vs Bayleef. Blaziken wins

Ash sent out Charizard

Charizard vs Blaziken. Blaziken wins



This should be enough proof for you to see the Pokemon that he used in Johto, it also show that Johto team did get to have at least one win each at the Johto League.

 

[Vragon]

okay and how does that help your case? I mean, the BW team had just as much if not more than the Johto team, so how does this help?

What I'm saying is, take evidence like these battles and show how they make Ash competent and do well compared to his BW self.

 

[Piii]

okay and how does that help your case? I mean, the BW team had just as much if not more than the Johto team, so how does this help?

What I'm saying is, take evidence like these battles and show how they make Ash competent and do well compared to his BW self.

I think what made his BW team different is that he caught many new different type of Pokemon, he also plan his Gym battle strategies out a whole lot more better and did show that he was a competent Pokemon trainer throughout the Unova region.

 

[Vragon]

okay that's fair I guess, but I digress.

Either way I think I've made my point in and sorry Piii if I came off as a bit harsh. In all honesty, I mainly was tryin to assess reasons to your conclusions rather than just tryin to prove you wrong, by the my use of the questions namely (I hope you came to this conclusion). I hope that this wasn't an overly annoying experience and well I hope that these threads can be able to talk about these issues and debate on them effectively as well as with civility. While yes I'm am what you could consider an outsider to this section of PC (and for understandable reason mind you) it's nice to broaden my sights on PC.

But overall I wish you well and understand I wasn't harping on you specifically for an opinion, but that I wanted to see you bring up points of validation. I wish you well Piii

PS: I'm not tryin to sound condescending by all this.

 

[Piii]

okay that's fair I guess, but I digress.

Either way I think I've made my point in and sorry Piii if I came off as a bit harsh. In all honesty, I mainly was tryin to assess reasons to your conclusions rather than just tryin to prove you wrong, by the my use of the questions namely (I hope you came to this conclusion). I hope that this wasn't an overly annoying experience and well I hope that these threads can be able to talk about these issues and debate on them effectively as well as with civility. While yes I'm am what you could consider an outsider to this section of PC (and for understandable reason mind you) it's nice to broaden my sights on PC.

But overall I wish you well and understand I wasn't harping on you specifically for an opinion, but that I wanted to see you bring up points of validation. I wish you well Piii

PS: I'm not tryin to sound condescending by all this.

That's okay Vragon. You have a right to voice your opinions.


Everyone is entitle to their own opinions, that is what the web sites are for. Wish you good luck Vragon.