2nd Gen Player Characters & Rivals: Original or Remake?

[BettyNewbie]

Seeing as both Generations 1 and 2 have been remade, nearly every major Kanto/Johto character has seen, at least, one redesign over the past 10 years. Which outfit do you like the best? Do you think that any of them should've been redesigned?

I'll start off with the Player Characters and Rivals. (Gym Leaders and Elite Four Members will get their own threads.)

1. Red: RBY design.

I get why they gave Red a drastic makeover in FRLG. His original design made him look similar to Ash, and it's obvious that they wanted to make the characters more distinct from one another. But, Red's original look is just too iconic, and it's not like he was actually copying Ash (more like the other way around). It's still hard for me to imagine him with brown hair; the old look just suits him so much better.

2. Green/Leaf: Beta design.

Both of her outfits aren't bad, but while the FRLG look is probably more practical for an adventure, the Beta one is just so much more stylish, with the black dress, white gloves, and best of all, no hat. To me, the best PC designs are the ones that could double as Rival or Gym Leader designs, which is certainly true of Green/Leaf's original look. Plus, as a bonus, the older outfit makes her look more like her own character and less like a distaff clone of Red.

3. Blue: RBY design.

Like Red, he was, no doubt, changed to avoid confusion with his anime counterpart (even if Gary eventually got his FRLG outfit, anyways), but as awkward as Red looks with brown hair, Blue looks even worse with strawberry blonde. And, hell no to the fanny pack he had in FRLG (his very worst look, IMO).

4. Gold/Ethan: HGSS design.

He's always been very bland, IMO, so I don't really care for either of his looks, but if I had to pick, I'd go with the remake one. The colors are toned down (Less yellow!), and he looks skinnier and cuter.

5. Kris/Lyra: Crystal design.

No contest. Kris had a sleek, cool design with blue hair, a white/pink color scheme, and a stylish, non-intrusive cap instead of a big, dorky hat. Like the original Green/Leaf, Kris could've easily passed for a Rival or Gym Leader, which, of course, is why she had to be replaced with the lovechild of Mario and original!Red. :|

6. Silver: GSC design.

I don't really mind either of his looks, but I still prefer the original. The newer one has too much purple and not enough black, and I definitely prefer the longer, straighter hair of the earlier design. GSC Silver looks older and more menacing, which fits his character to a T.
​

 

[Imperator161]

I don't have strong opinions for all of these, but here it goes:

1. Red: I'm actually a lot more torn on this one than I thought, as I like both of them. On net, I might have to favor the RBY Red, mainly because of his iconic, classic 90's look. He does resemble Ash a great deal, but I don't have a problem with that, and frankly, I've always thought that Ash gets a lot more flak than he deserves. However, the new Red looks slightly older, and somewhat closer to how I look, so in some ways, I relate to him a little better. Although they're supposed to be the same character, they're different enough that in many ways, I think of them as two individuals going on journeys in parallel universes, separated by several years of time. RBY Red looks like a younger kid, perhaps still a bit cocky. FRLG's Red looks like he's had more life experience (maybe it's his eyes and expression in the art...), and so I can picture him sitting atop Mount Silver, training and contemplating the past, present, and future.

2. Green/Leaf: New design. I've never liked either one that much, but the one in the pictures you attached just leaves me with a negative impression. I guess she's just too well-dressed for me, with the dress, gloves and shoes. She looks ready to either charm as many people as possible or become another Mushroom Kingdom princess to me, but I have a hard time picturing her as a serious trainer who's willing to get her hands dirty to become a Pokemon master.

3. Blue: Original design. I'm not a huge fan of the FRLG fanny pack, either, and I've always liked his simple, original look.

4. Gold: Original design. (And I also don't see why GF insisted on starting to call him Ethan in HGSS, but that's for another thread.) I guess I kind of like "bland" trainers, but the main thing for me is the shorts. I like the GSC shorts better than the HGSS ones (I don't like how the HGSS ones tighten below the knee). The original Gold is one of my favorite character designs, actually.

5. Kris/Lyra: Crystal design (Kris). These are pretty much entirely different characters (it seems like GF jettisoned poor Kris), but I've always liked Kris's design, and I've never cared for Lyra's hat, suspenders, or really high socks.

6. Silver: I guess the GSC design, though I don't have strong feelings about it. I agree that he looks more menacing in that version, and that adds to the complexity of his character. I'm not that fond of the character's design in general (mainly because of the hair, I guess).

 

[BettyNewbie]

Although they're supposed to be the same character, they're different enough that in many ways, I think of them as two individuals going on journeys in parallel universes, separated by several years of time.

I definitely agree with this assessment. Since ORAS established themselves as taking place on a different timeline than RSE, it stands to reason that RBY and FRLG also exist on different timelines, thus RBY!Red and FRLG!Red are different characters on different timelines.

2. Green/Leaf: New design. I've never liked either one that much, but the one in the pictures you attached just leaves me with a negative impression. I guess she's just too well-dressed for me, with the dress, gloves and shoes. She looks ready to either charm as many people as possible or become another Mushroom Kingdom princess to me, but I have a hard time picturing her as a serious trainer who's willing to get her hands dirty to become a Pokemon master.

Oh, I don't disagree that the FRLG outfit is more practical for an adventure. However, the Beta outfit looks more like something *I* would wear in RL, so I relate more to it (just like you relate more to Red's FRLG look). And, who says that a Pokémon Master can't be stylish and feminine? Just ask Lorelei and Karen.

(And I also don't see why GF insisted on starting to call him Ethan in HGSS, but that's for another thread.)

Me, neither. Personally, I like to think of Ethan as being just as different of a person from Gold as Lyra is from Kris. (Something that, apparently, the anime agrees with me on.)

I will say that I like the way Gold's hair and face are drawn better than the way I do Ethan's, but, truthfully, I just don't have a strong opinion on either.

 

[Imperator161]

And, who says that a Pokémon Master can't be stylish and feminine? Just ask Lorelei and Karen.

I certainly agree that a Pokemon Master can be stylish and feminine, and I think Lorelei and Karen fill that role well. Maybe for me it's that Green/Leaf's "little black dress" type look in the images you posted seems more mature than how I generally think of the gen I protagonists? Not sure. I think it's more of a personal preference thing--the look reminds me a bit of someone I didn't necessarily get along with that well when I was younger, so I'm sure that colors my perceptions. To each our own!

It's an intriguing topic to think about overall, though. I hadn't really thought about the character designs and redesigns in detail before, and the older vs. newer art certainly gives a different feel to the Pokemon universe. It's also interesting to look at the art style and designs of characters across all of the generations--the characters from the late 90's look quite different from our gen 6 protagonists, likely reflecting the changing world, societal/cultural trends, etc., over the past 15-20 years. It's also interesting to think about how our own perceptions of the characters have changed over time--after all, I grew up with Pokemon (as I'm guessing you did), and just as the series and its characters have transformed, so too have we.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Maybe for me it's that Green/Leaf's "little black dress" type look in the images you posted seems more mature than how I generally think of the gen I protagonists?

I think the maturity thing is a big factor. Beta Green looks more like a teenager, while the newer Leaf looks more like an 11 year old, and as a 23 year old, the former obviously appeals to me more. If I was still 10, I'd probably prefer Leaf to Green, truth be told.

With so many Pokémon fans being older teenagers and young adults nowadays, I can see why they started making the PCs older with Generation 5. Even May and Brendan appear to have been retconned into being teenagers (making me wonder if the Kanto, Johto, and Sinnoh PCs will eventually get the same treatment in future remakes).

It's an intriguing topic to think about overall, though. I hadn't really thought about the character designs and redesigns in detail before, and the older vs. newer art certainly gives a different feel to the Pokemon universe. It's also interesting to look at the art style and designs of characters across all of the generations--the characters from the late 90's look quite different from our gen 6 protagonists, likely reflecting the changing world, societal/cultural trends, etc., over the past 15-20 years. It's also interesting to think about how our own perceptions of the characters have changed over time--after all, I grew up with Pokemon (as I'm guessing you did), and just as the series and its characters have transformed, so too have we.

The art style has definitely changed a lot over the years. Just compare Red from RBY to Hilbert from BW. Hilbert is probably the most similar-looking of the later PCs to Red, and yet, his art couldn't look any different--He's taller and lankier, his eyes are (way) larger, his outfit is more detailed, his face is softer and flatter, and (most obviously) he's colored a lot brighter.

Things have even changed a lot since Generation 3, for that matter. Even Red's FRLG art has clear stylistic differences from Hilbert's--His eyes aren't as large, his face is more pointed, he's slightly shorter and stockier, and he isn't colored as brightly. And, then, there's the gigantic world of difference that is May's RS artwork and her ORAS artwork. Same character and even, the same pose, and yet, they're worlds apart.

 

[DyingWillFlareon]

Red: RGB Just because his iconic black hair simple clothes thing looks better to me

Green/Leaf: RGB beta Because I read the PokeSpe manga and that's probably cheating. XD But Manga!Blue's outfit does change, just like everyone else's, so it's probably not cheating. But Imperator161, you don't know how close to the truth you were there with her lol.

Blue: His FRLG clothes look better to me, but maybe that's because he and Gary look *too* much alike with RGB. What was that circle thing on his RGB outfit again? ._.U

Gold: HGSS outfit. I always draw him in this because I like pants more than shorts. Plus they're easier to draw. However I recently discovered I own a pair of black jeans that look just like his lol I figure.

Kris/Lyra: Her GSC outfit is easier to draw, but her HGSS outfit is really cute too. I just like how Pokemon Adventures had Kris wearing the HGsS outfit with blue hair it was so cute. X3 Manga!Kris calls a tie.

Silver: I don't really know about his outfits. I'm always paying attention to the creepy face he makes while chalenging Gold like you-know-what face over there. But I suppose his HGSS clothes look slimmer, sleeker, and a bit better, but his hair was better in GSC(WHEN IT WASN'T LONGER THAN MINE).


However I'm not sure what to say about all this alternate world stuff. While it sounds cool, I prefer to think he different versions are alternate worlds rather than just every gen being different was it's remake/original. (Like Black City or White Forest).

 

[Mega_Kris]

1. Red: RBY design.

I get why they gave Red a drastic makeover in FRLG. His original design made him look similar to Ash, and it's obvious that they wanted to make the characters more distinct from one another. But, Red's original look is just too iconic, and it's not like he was actually copying Ash (more like the other way around). It's still hard for me to imagine him with brown hair; the old look just suits him so much better.​

I like Red's new design. Its simpler and a little more easier. I felt that their early designs was too dated. Even back then, i never thought the oversize lifegaurd jacket look nice at all.
Probably because they aimed for a "present" day look.

Red's new design seems to be timeless.

2. Green/Leaf: Beta design.

Both of her outfits aren't bad, but while the FRLG look is probably more practical for an adventure, the Beta one is just so much more stylish, with the black dress, white gloves, and best of all, no hat. To me, the best PC designs are the ones that could double as Rival or Gym Leader designs, which is certainly true of Green/Leaf's original look. Plus, as a bonus, the older outfit makes her look more like her own character and less like a distaff clone of Red.

For the record: She's not known as "Green". I really dislike Leaf out of all the female counterparts. I do remember the black dress, white gloves and no hat. I don't mind that she would have a hat, but she doesn't look like an equal counterpart...

3. Blue: RBY design.

Like Red, he was, no doubt, changed to avoid confusion with his anime counterpart (even if Gary eventually got his FRLG outfit, anyways), but as awkward as Red looks with brown hair, Blue looks even worse with strawberry blonde. And, hell no to the fanny pack he had in FRLG (his very worst look, IMO).

Plain purple shirt versus Black t-shirt. If we're going for purely nostalgia, not even his design made me smile. The "fanny pack" doesn't look off for me. It only looks weird in the intro as it looks bigger and in an awkard position. I also really don't mind his hair. His hair was light brown, so it became orange.

Regardless, HGSS he looks pretty good with his leather jacket look that is reminiscent from RGB.

4. Gold/Ethan: HGSS design.

He's always been very bland, IMO, so I don't really care for either of his looks, but if I had to pick, I'd go with the remake one. The colors are toned down (Less yellow!), and he looks skinnier and cuter.

A backwards cap, sweater, and shorts oppose to Red's regular cap, oversize vest, regular jeans? I'm sorry but i always felt like Ethan/Gold was a good design.

5. Kris/Lyra: Crystal design.

No contest. Kris had a sleek, cool design with blue hair, a white/pink color scheme, and a stylish, non-intrusive cap instead of a big, dorky hat. Like the original Green/Leaf, Kris could've easily passed for a Rival or Gym Leader, which, of course, is why she had to be replaced with the lovechild of Mario and original!Red. :|

I like Kris a hundred times more. But i wont deny that Lyra looks good in her own way. Perhaps if she was "Leaf" instead, it would be entirely different.

6. Silver: GSC design.

I don't really mind either of his looks, but I still prefer the original. The newer one has too much purple and not enough black, and I definitely prefer the longer, straighter hair of the earlier design. GSC Silver looks older and more menacing, which fits his character to a T.

[/quote] Actually, he looked like a punk to me the entire time. In HGSS he looks more darker.

 

[BettyNewbie]

For the record: She's not known as "Green". I really dislike Leaf out of all the female counterparts.

If you want to be technical, she doesn't have a canon name at all:

Although "Leaf" is by far the name she is most commonly known by in the community, she has no official given name. Her name is based on dummy Trainer data of FireRed and LeafGreen, with the male main character being named "Red". Oddly enough Blue also has dummy Trainer data under the name "Terry" so this raises a question about the validity of the names.

I prefer "Green," myself, since it parallels Red and Blue better. However, this will all be a moot point when Gen 1 is remade again in a few years, and she's either given an official name (which probably won't be either "Green" or "Leaf") or scrapped altogether for a new character who does have an official name (especially if it's a Yellow remake, which never had a female PC in the first place).

 

[Mega_Kris]

The one we know as "Blue" is known as "Green" in japan. That's why its a bigger mistake to call her Green at all.

Regardless, i think nostalgia is clouding most of the judgement on the re-designs. I personally like most of the newer designs. I don't dislike Lyra's design but i just wish she wasn't replaced by the tomboy design that Kris had. I believe Lyra's design definitely had a place.

The only ones i dislike is Leaf and Ethans. Ethan in the original had a lot more flare when it came to his original design. But what i hate most about his new design is that he looks too childish.

if he had as much flare as this, he would be a great character.

 

[BettyNewbie]

The one we know as "Blue" is known as "Green" in japan. That's why its a bigger mistake to call her Green at all.

Because, we're all Japanese and exclusively use Japanese names, right? :rolleyes2:

She doesn't have a canon name, period. You can call her "Green," "Leaf," "Blue," "Purple," or whatever you want, but none of those names are canon. As I said, when Gen 1 is remade, she'll either get a canon name and a secondary rival role (if you play as Red) or (more likely) she'll be scrapped for a new character who'll have both of those things from the get-go (like a certain other female PC who replaced another female PC who had neither a canon name or existed in the game if you played as the guy).

I don't dislike Lyra's design but i just wish she wasn't replaced by the tomboy design that Kris had. I believe Lyra's design definitely had a place.

You meant, "I don't dislike Kris' design but i just wish she wasn't replaced by the girly design that Lyra had. I believe Kris' design definitely had a place," right?

The only ones i dislike is Leaf and Ethans. Ethan in the original had a lot more flare when it came to his original design. But what i hate most about his new design is that he looks too childish.

That has more to do with the art style of the newer games than Ethan's outfit. All of the newer PCs have the same huge eyes, soft faces, and skinny legs. (And, those 6 are all meant to be teenagers, mind you.)

 

[Mega_Kris]

Because, we're all Japanese and exclusively use Japanese names, right? :rolleyes2:

She doesn't have a canon name, period. You can call her "Green," "Leaf," "Blue," "Purple," or whatever you want, but none of those names are canon. As I said, when Gen 1 is remade, she'll either get a canon name and a secondary rival role (if you play as Red) or (more likely) she'll be scrapped for a new character who'll have both of those things from the get-go (like a certain other female PC who replaced another female PC who had neither a canon name or existed in the game if you played as the guy).

im saying it how it is. Calling her Green where another character is actually canonically known as Green is a mistake. Its like calling Blue/Gree, Gary. AND that is definitely considered a mistake in the longrun. You want to.call her.purple? Fine. Calling her Red would make anyone look like an idiot. so it doesn't matter if she specifically has a canon name, don't confuse to ever believing she was ever considered as Green.

You meant, "I don't dislike Kris' design but i just wish she wasn't replaced by the girly design that Lyra had. I believe Kris' design definitely had a place," right?

I dont dislike Lyra's design. However she replacing Kris's tomboy look. If she was "Leaf", it would be interesting.

That has more to do with the art style of the newer games than Ethan's outfit. All of the newer PCs have the same huge eyes, soft faces, and skinny legs. (And, those 6 are all meant to be teenagers, mind you.)

[/quote] its not that, but redesigned Red has far more style than redesigned Ethan. His shorts appeared to cuff in rather than looking like normal shorts, his sweater is now slim fit, which isnt bad, but doesnt look like a sweater. But his ridiculous smile doesnt fit his look.

 

[BettyNewbie]

im saying it how it is. Calling her Green where another character is actually canonically known as Green is a mistake. Its like calling Blue/Gree, Gary. AND that is definitely considered a mistake in the longrun. You want to.call her.purple? Fine. Calling her Red would make anyone look like an idiot. so it doesn't matter if she specifically has a canon name, don't confuse to ever believing she was ever considered as Green.

Then, you should probably start boycotting Adventures, then, because guess what they call her? :rolleyes2:

And, speaking of the Rival, if you're going to insist that "Leaf" is the female PC's "real" name, then you should probably start calling the Rival "Terry," as well:

Although "Leaf" is by far the name she is most commonly known by in the community, she has no official given name. Her name is based on dummy Trainer data of FireRed and LeafGreen, with the male main character being named "Red". Oddly enough Blue also has dummy Trainer data under the name "Terry" so this raises a question about the validity of the names.

I dont dislike Lyra's design. However she replacing Kris's tomboy look.

Based on old Pokégear data found in HGSS, Kris was originally planned to return in the remakes, so it's a mystery why they scrapped her. Many have argued that Kris was too tied to Crystal and that HGSS were meant to be Gold and Silver remakes, yet, that didn't stop the games from bringing back other characters and features that were exclusive to Crystal.

While "Kris" technically isn't an official name, either, it has far more canon backing than "Leaf," appearing on the back of Crystal's box and being the first preset name for her. (Which, is actually more evidence than the male PC had for being "Gold.")

 

[Mega_Kris]

Then, you should probably start boycotting Adventures, then, because guess what they call her? :rolleyes2:

And, speaking of the Rival, if you're going to insist that "Leaf" is the female PC's "real" name, then you should probably start calling the Rival "Terry," as well:

adventures changed multiple names, not only that but the name is still more geared towards Blue/Green.

But rest assure, im not insisting on calling her leaf, im insisting on not calling her Green. I also dont consider the manga canon or significant in any way.

Based on old Pokégear data found in HGSS, Kris was originally planned to return in the remakes, so it's a mystery why they scrapped her. Many have argued that Kris was too tied to Crystal and that HGSS were meant to be Gold and Silver remakes, yet, that didn't stop the games from bringing back other characters and features that were exclusive to Crystal.

While "Kris" technically isn't an official name, either, it has far more canon backing than "Leaf," appearing on the back of Crystal's box and being the first preset name for her. (Which, is actually more evidence than the male PC had for being "Gold.")

[/quote] kris has the same level of canon as Ethan. Regardless I believe lyra is Kris, or at least a heavily modified version.

 

[BettyNewbie]

But rest assure, im not insisting on calling her leaf, im insisting on not calling her Green. I also dont consider the manga canon or significant in any way.

Oh, I'm the LAST person who would argue for Adventures being canon, trust me. (Although, it is the only place where the Kanto female PC "exists" as a character.) I only brought it up as an example.

Let me bring up a game example of a character having the same canon name as another character in a different language--Rocket Executive Proton. Wanna know what his Japanese name is? Lance. Sound familiar?

How could these two men have the same canon name and the world not implode? Easy: The "original" Lance is actually "Wataru" in Japanese, which is the only place that Proton is known as "Lance." Meanwhile, in the games where the Dragon Master is "Lance," the Rocket Executive is "Proton." So, in reality, they don't have the same name.

The names for the Gen 1 Rival and female PC operate under the same principle. The Rival is only "Green" in Japanese, so the female PC could still be "Green" in English, because lo and behold, the Rival is "Blue" there. Meanwhile, in Japanese, she's the one who would be "Blue," because the Rival's "Green."

kris has the same level of canon as Ethan. Regardless I believe lyra is Kris, or at least a heavily modified version.

I'd like to believe that, but it doesn't seem to be the official word. As I said, that could possibly be retconned later on in a Crystal remake.

 

[Mega_Kris]

Green is common to be known for Blue in both. I know you know better.than to argue that and play devils advocate for the sake of justifying calling her green. I personally prefer calling her Leaf but thats just me. I am not enforcing it. However waving off like calling Green is no big deal out of an error on your part is still an "error".

Lance/Proton is more of a canon standpoint. Lance's didnt exist until HGSS, and that issue rises everytime. Blue/Green doesnt.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Green is common to be known for Blue in both. I know you know better.than to argue that and play devils advocate for the sake of justifying calling her green. I personally prefer calling her Leaf but thats just me. I am not enforcing it. However waving off like calling Green is no big deal out of an error on your part is still an "error".

Lance/Proton is more of a canon standpoint. Lance's didnt exist until HGSS, and that issue rises everytime. Blue/Green doesnt.

You don't get it. I speak English, so I use English names. So, "Lance" refers to the Dragon Master, not the Rocket Executive. The Rocket Executive is only "Lance" in another language that I don't speak (and he can be "Lance" in that other language, because the Dragon Master is "Wataru" there), so it isn't part of my canon.

Same goes for the Gen 1 Rival. I speak English, so he's "Blue." There isn't any canon character in ENGLISH who is "Green," so I can freely call the Kanto female PC that however often I want. (And while Adventures isn't canon, it provides a precedent for doing it.)

And, why not? Unlike "Leaf," "Green" better parallels "Red" and "Blue," and it isn't specifically tied to a specific set of remakes. (Which is very important if we want this girl to return in the next Gen 1 remakes.) Of course, I could always call her "Yellow," instead, but that might screw with the minds of Adventures fans.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I think they should change Red, Blue, and Leaf's names like they did Gold's for a future Kanto re-remake.

Anyways if you haven't noticed the main characters in the remakes tend to get their hair color toned down...even Brendan did. So Red's brown hair seems to have set a thread with the player character's hair xD. I like better the remake looks of practically all of them, minus Silver's.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I think they should change Red, Blue, and Leaf's names like they did Gold's for a future Kanto re-remake.

I could see that happening, especially since they'll all get retconned into being teenagers like May and Brendan were. The color names are pretty much dead, with Red, Blue, and Silver being the last ones left ("Leaf" is not canon, either way).

I think the Gen 1 characters should get new names that are "real," yet still reflect the old color names (so it isn't too much of a shock for older players used to "Red" and Blue").

So, Red could be renamed "Rusty," and Blue could be renamed "Azure" ("Jade" in Japan). The girl, on the other hand, would be canonized as "Amber" to reflect the *link removed* and its remake, which is where she would be canonized as a character for the first time. These are all just ideas, mind you.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I could see that happening, especially since they'll all get retconned into being teenagers like May and Brendan were. The color names are pretty much dead, with Red, Blue, and Silver being the last ones left ("Leaf" is not canon, either way).

I think the Gen 1 characters should get new names that are "real," yet still reflect the old color names (so it isn't too much of a shock for older players used to "Red" and Blue").

So, Red could be renamed "Rusty," and Blue could be renamed "Azure" ("Jade" in Japan). The girl, on the other hand, would be canonized as "Amber" to reflect the *link removed* and its remake, which is where she would be canonized as a character for the first time. These are all just ideas, mind you.

There's a contradiction in ORAS as they say they're 12, while also calling them Teens from what I've read online (haven't see their ages myself while playing the games). Also it's not like them being 10 was canon to begin with (plus in Special Ruby turns 12 irc at the end of the arc so it may be a reference to that more than a simple retcot).

Rusty sounds like a Dog's name...Vermillion or Crimson would be better
Azure would fit Blue to a T, especially when one considers the Azure dragon is sometimes depicted as Green, other times as Blue.
Amber sounds good.

Anyways I miss Leaf's design, she seems to have one of the most unique designs.

 

[BettyNewbie]

There's a contradiction in ORAS as they say they're 12, while also calling them Teens from what I've read online (haven't see their ages myself while playing the games). Also it's not like them being 10 was canon to begin with (plus in Special Ruby turns 12 irc at the end of the arc so it may be a reference to that more than a simple retcot).

Well, it makes sense that they would be retconned to teens, as teenage protagonists have pretty much been the norm since BW. For better or worse, the fanbase is getting older (a trend that began with HGSS and has only grown since then), and 19-24 year olds tend to relate to teenage/young adult protagonists better than preteens (for obvious reasons).

Even the likes of Red and Blue are usually depicted as teenagers in fanart, nowadays, so it's only a matter of time until the games make it canon.

Rusty sounds like a Dog's name...Vermillion or Crimson would be better

Vermilion's a no-go because of a certain city. As for Crimson, is that even a name? *one Google Search later* Apparently, it is, at least in Alabama.