6th Gen Point in Having all the Games?

[YoshiMoshi]

I'm not really sure what thread to place this in. But anyhow, I know that it's not necessary to have all the games in order to catch them all, however do you need all the games to complete the game completely? I'm not really sure if I'm explaining this well but it would seem to me as if there are some reasons for having all the pokemon games (yes even the ones that are a decade old) and I'm going to go ahead and list them and was wonder if you guys good add to them.

Tutor Moves - In some of the old GBA games you can teach some of the pokemon certain moves through a tutor that it would otherwise couldn't learn

Ribbons - You can't get any of the generation 3, 4, or kanto ribbons if you don't have some of those games

I know that in Diamond and Pearl (the last pokemon games I bought) having all the old GBA games unlocked accessories that you otherwise couldn't get. Are the reasons to having all the DS games like the old GBA games to unlock other accessories in the new games?

Am I missing anything?

Basically I'm considering getting back into pokemon and wonder if it's a good idea to get all of the old games that I don't have. I'm some what of a completionest and if I can have ribbons or moves etc. that I otherwise can't get without some of the old games than perhaps it's a good idea to get all of them.

 

[Howmander]

Short answer, no, you don't need to have all the games in order to get full game completion. Yes it is true that there are move tutor moves from previous games that you can't get in current games, but on the same not there are (depending on how old the game is) some level up and egg moves this gen that weren't available before, so you could have a move tutor move, but not a different breeding or level up move offered now.

The ribbons, yes, you won't be able to get some ribbons without having gone through the older games.

Accesories on the other hand is a different thing. You cannot bring ANY items (hold or otherwise) from older games to new games. You can trade them around within the same generation, but when you send your pokemon to the next gen, you cannot bring anything with it. The only thing you would need the older DS games for are for specific pokemon and that's pretty much it. (as I said, items cannot be sent over, and therefore the ONLY thing you can bring from one game to the next is the pokemon and Ribbons) So currently there are 22 or 23 pokemon lines that are not available in X or Y, not to mention a ton of Legendaries, but having said that, currently on the GTS (thanks to Pokebank in Japan) every pokemon is now available, so you don't actually need any previous games and still get a fully complete Pokedex. The only thing you would be missing are (as you mentioned) certain move tutor moves and Ribbons but that's pretty much it. And historically, the third game in the series (or the remakes for that matter) tend to have a bunch of move tutors so there's a good chance that moves you don't have access to because they used to be a move tutor moves will be available as move tutor moves again in later games.

 

[scprepschool]

The only one I would also own for move tutors is bw2... going back further more than likely isn't worth the move IMO.

 

[Pendraflare]

The only one I would also own for move tutors is bw2... going back further more than likely isn't worth the move IMO.

Except for Defog in the Sinnoh games, considering that's a double-sided Rapid Spin that can be taught to most Flying-types in Generation IV.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

So that's confirmed then, sending your pokemon through pokebank doesn't restart the ribbons? Any ribbons on your pokemon will remain on your pokemon and they will not be removed from your pokemon? If so then to some degree it makes since to try and shove as many pokemon as you can into pokemon emerald and try and get them as many ribbons as you can then trade it over through pokemon bank, instead of catching them in x or y.

Also, what's the logic of not being able to send over hold items? Like I know you can't but I don't understand why Nintendo would want to prevent us from doing that.

And your right I did not realize that. Move tutors are kind of a difficult decision. Later games open up more egg moves and other moves that it would otherwise couldn't learn. I didn't think of this. This makes me question if it's a good idea or not to catch them in old games when you can just catch them in x or y. You can get them ribbons though that you otherwise couldn't get. However if they remake the old games then you just wasted your time. I however think remaking the old games would be silly, because Generation III is backwards compatible with X and Y if you go through the work needed to do so.

 

[Howmander]

So that's confirmed then, sending your pokemon through pokebank doesn't restart the ribbons? Any ribbons on your pokemon will remain on your pokemon and they will not be removed from your pokemon? If so then to some degree it makes since to try and shove as many pokemon as you can into pokemon emerald and try and get them as many ribbons as you can then trade it over through pokemon bank, instead of catching them in x or y.

Also, what's the logic of not being able to send over hold items? Like I know you can't but I don't understand why Nintendo would want to prevent us from doing that.

And your right I did not realize that. Move tutors are kind of a difficult decision. Later games open up more egg moves and other moves that it would otherwise couldn't learn. I didn't think of this. This makes me question if it's a good idea or not to catch them in old games when you can just catch them in x or y. You can get them ribbons though that you otherwise couldn't get. However if they remake the old games then you just wasted your time. I however think remaking the old games would be silly, because Generation III is backwards compatible with X and Y if you go through the work needed to do so.

Well there's the work needed to do so, but you would also need the hardware (an original DS for example) so there could always be a need (or at least a want) for a remake as right now you could still buy any of the Sinnoh or Unova games and use it on current hardware, whereas you can't do so on the Hoenn games.

Now I can't vouche for ALL the ribbons (for example, later games may not recognize the Hoenn contest ribbons for example, I don't know, I do know that I have gotten a couple of pokemon from previous Sinnoh and Unova games and they possess the champion ribbon from beating the Elite 4 in their respective regions, as well as I traded with someone with a pokemon with the Classic ribbon, but that is all I personally have seen.

The "logic" of not being able to send over hold items (which I don't agree with, but whatever) is that it prevents people from stockpiling rare items and likely probably encourages trade with more people in order to get the items you want rather than just getting a whole bunch in older games and sending them over. Also some items could cause problems in later games, such as (I THINK) you used to be able to let a pokemon hold TMs (because they were one time use items) and could send them to other games which was fine in their respective generation, but sending them to future generations could cause issues. As well as some special hold items that were extremely common in older games (such as I think the Deep Sea Tooth and Deep Sea Scale) needed to be worked for in new games so people having access to older games gave them an unfair advantage to newer players who didn't.

Although one thing I had heard (which I don't know is true, hopefully someone can confirm) is that if you bread for IVs in the Hoenn games, when you transferred those pokemon to Sinnoh, all their IVs got randomized so all your work was for nothing other than the moves they learn. (This is why I stopped playing pokemon when gen 4 came out, although if that was NOT true, I certainly regret NOT keeping my old games and transferring them through to the current generation) However a pretty major issue in the old games (which I was EXTREMELY resistant to when they made the change because I had spent SO much time finding the perfect move sets for everything that that was also another reason I quit) was that the attacks didn't have a physical/special classification it was based entirely on type, so EVERY electric move was special, EVERY bug move was physical, and so on. (so back then, it actually made sense to have the elemental punches on Alakazam because they were all special, whereas it made no sense to any of them on Hitmonchan, but now that has been reversed however, Abra still has them as egg moves for some reason) so a fair amount of movesets that worked well on pokemon back then resulted in not getting STAB moves, however as soon as they went to the next game, those moves were useless on that pokemon (Tyranitar couldn't use Crunch for example because dark moves were all special, and Butterfree couldn't get ANY STAB moves because both bug and flying were physical attacks) so there really may be no reason whatsoever to get any of the hoenn games at this point, just start in Sinnoh if you must.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

You bring up many good points. Every generation changes the game drastically. You could get a perfect IV Pokemon, EV train it, get all the best moves, natures, abilities, etc. on many Pokemon. This would take several hundred hours depending on how many Pokemon you trained. It could all go to waste though when a new generation comes out, game mechanics may change, making previous move sets useless.

I almost feel as if the goal of the game shouldn't be to EV train all the Pokemon you can to level 100, breed for nearly perfect IVs, and go for good move sets as all those hours of work could go to waste when a new generation comes out. Perhaps the goal should be to just collect all the Pokemon. EV train a team of 6 Pokemon and try to get those 6 to have nearly a nearly perfect IV spread. The only problem I see is with so many Pokemon now it's hard to determine which 6 you should choose. Without considering training all of them you don't really know all the moves they can learn, but you can probably rule some of the species out. When a new generation comes out one may decide that other Pokemon are better to create the best team you can.

The other thing I realized is that if I get all the ribbons I can on a certain Pokemon than your stuck with that Pokemon, so you should try and get perfect IVs for that Pokemon. However we run into the issue that it's much easier to IV breed in later generations due to new game mechanics, which once again seems to ruin it. I don't know if I'm really willing to try and IV breed on the old games when it would be much easier in the newer generations.

One could argue that it makes since to get all the legendary Pokemon in the old games and have them get all the ribbons. Since legendaries can't breed (some of them) you can only find them in the wild and can't IV breed them. You have the same chance of getting perfect IVs no matter what generation your playing (I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't accurate actually). So perhaps it makes since to get all the ribbons only on the legendaries in Emerald, Sapphire, and Ruby and then trade them over if you encounter one with a good IV spread that your happy with. You again run into the issue if it's a good idea to train them or not because what if game mechanics change, moves changes, making your good Pokemon useless. While you can get Mewtwo in X or Y you can't get the older ribbons.

The whole argument falls apart like you said if they release remakes allowing you to get the old ribbons.

I'm not really sure how these games should be played if you want to play the game for competition and not necessarily just for fun. It seems to be rather convoluted. I'm not exactly sure. What do you think?

I currently have

Nintendo Game Cube
Transfer Cable for Game Cube
Pokemon Colosseum
Pokemon Colosseum Bonus Disc US
Pokemon Colosseum XD Gale of Darkness
Game Boy Advance
Pokemon Sapphire
Pokemon Emerald
Pokemon Fire Red
Pokemon Leaf Green
Original Nintendo DS
Pokemon Diamond
Pokemon Pearl
Wii

My sister would let me borrow her stuff as well
Game Boy Advance
Nintendo DS
Pokemon Platinum

All the Pokemon in XD Gale of Darkness earn a ribbon that you can only get there. But none of those Pokemon are wild Pokemon and you can't IV breed them.

I would be inclined to clone a perfect IV Pokemon in all stats if I ever got one. If it's put in the game than I don't see why I shouldn't do it. However I guess in the newer games your Pokemon gets a certain ribbon or something if its suspected to be a clone, which is a shame. Might as well, I thought, IV train all the evolutions of a perfect IV Pokemon instead of just the top evolve form.

 

[Ammako]

for example, later games may not recognize the Hoenn contest ribbons for example

Contest ribbons are converted into one single ribbon that displays how many contest ribbons the Pokémon had.
I would assume that means the data for the Gen. III and Gen. IV ribbons doesn't exist in Gen. VI.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

Serebii says

When transferring from Pokémon Black, White, Black 2 & White 2, more ribbons will become visible to players through the use of Pokémon which obtained them within Generations III and IV. Click here for a full list

so I think it would still show up on them unless this is wrong

I'm considering doing the following.

In Pokemon Sapphire hacking in a perfect IV set of every species line that is able to breed Pokemon. Put them in the daycare to get offspring. Being that Sapphire will always choose 3 stats from parents that don't overlap I'm guaranteed at least 3 perfect IVs on every baby. I'd be sure to make both of them wear a everstone if they have the nature I'm looking for to ensure the baby also has the same nature. I will then have a (1/31)^3 chance or 0.0033567184720217515356987009499513275821556846027323% chance of having the other 3 being perfect. This isn't as bad as it seems. The game has 14 boxes or 420 Pokemon. I would expect to get one every 298 Pokemon. My plan is to use the fast egg hatch cheat along with with a Pokemon with Molten Ability to quickly hatch the eggs. My plan is to hack in a whole bunch of rare candies. My plan is to check for a perfect child every box or 30 Pokemon and save my game before doing so. I would then level up all the Pokemon in the box to level 100 without making them fight any wild Pokemon and plug in their stats into a IV calculator to see if I have a perfect child and repeat this process until I do. Once I got one I would used hacked Pokeblocks and TMs to get it moves that would allow it to win all the contests and get all of those ribbons. I would hack a wild Pokemon with Pokerus and make the perfect child fight it so it would get infected and used some hacked medicine to speed up the EV training process. Once it had all the EVs I wanted through battling Pokemon legitimately I would level it up to level 100 through hacked rare candies. I don't see much point in doing this for pre-evolve forms in most cases since the evolve forms generally have better move sets and higher base stats. I would then get it all of the other ribbons legitimately (although I may walk through walls to get to the last Elite Four trainer etc.). I would then send it over to Diamond or Pearl or Platinum. I could then repeat this process.

Everything about this Pokemon would be legit, none of it's stats would be hacked in, moves etc.. The only thing hacked about it would be that it came from hacked parents and some hacked items were used on it. I don't know much about the hacking checking system in most recent games since I stopped after Pearl and Diamond. My question is would this get caught as a hacked Pokemon? I don't see why it would.

I know that obtaining a perfect IV spread Pokemon without hacked parents and not using hacked items would be a better way to play because I would be more satisfied and all, but I'm not really willing to spend all that time breeding. I believe I read some were that getting a perfect IV spread is equivalent to winning the lottery a couple thousand times again and again. I personally think the lottery is the idiot tax, I sell the lottery lol. I believe trying to breed for a perfect IV spread would be much more worse than playing the lottery trying to win and a very silly thing to do.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

Does anyone have a list of the possible combinations of games one needs to get a complete set?