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Platinum hack: Pokémon Altered Platinum - Sinnohan Forms, Increased Difficulty, and more!

Should I buff defenses to compensate for no EVs? (See post on page 4)

  • Total voters
    110
Released today's update, b1.3.3, which tweaks text, PP Max/PP Up prices, and encounter rates- as well as sliiiiiiiiiightly nerfing Wake's Ludicolo.

Generally, the encounter tables are now more biased in favor of Sinnohan Forms early on, so there's usually a place with at least a 20% chance of encountering them.
 
b1.3.4 was released, tweaking content from Pastoria City to Canalave City, severely nerfing Riley's battle and buffing Byron's.

Several Pokemon I've been playtesting have also been tweaked.
 
Released b1.3.5, which tweaks several things. Trainers up to and including Sunyshore City's Gym have been tweaked according to my playtesting run, and a number of Pokemon have had their stats and abilities changed.
 
SevenChurches said:
I made a video showing my run. Mind you, it started on Feb 20 and ended on the 27th, so quite a few versions of the hack I went through. I was done before b1.3.5 dropped.



Buck's Rotom should be Rotom-Heat, but it's the regular form. Not sure if that was fixed in b1.3.5. Anyway, I enjoyed the hack.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you did. Buck's Rotom will be fixed in the next version- it changed because DSPRE's trainer editor doesn't support alternate forms, so I have to use PPRE to change it back.

Edit- Would you happen to have any advice on fixing Togekiss? I'm sad to hear it was underwhelming. I can't really change its typing at this point, but maybe there's some other way to improve it?
 
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Lithobraker said:
I'm glad you did. Buck's Rotom will be fixed in the next version- it changed because DSPRE's trainer editor doesn't support alternate forms, so I have to use PPRE to change it back.

Edit- Would you happen to have any advice on fixing Togekiss? I'm sad to hear it was underwhelming. I can't really change its typing at this point, but maybe there's some other way to improve it?
Click to expand...

I think the typing is the issue, Grass/Dragon doesn't really work for me, the mon would have to be bulky with Thick Fat or super fast yet powerful (Mega Sceptile). Maybe give it spore/powder moves. I didn't see Sleep Powder in its learnset. Far too often it went up against mons that can crush it with some super-effective move. Ice, Bug, Poison, pretty common, especially with Galactic bosses having Crobat, Weavile appearing and others.

Perhaps replace Hustle with Thick Fat, which might be a stretch based on its appearance.
 
Here's what I was thinking of doing last night, before I saw SevenChurches' reply.
Base Stats:
Old - 85 HP / 120 Atk / 125 Def / 50 SAtk / 85 SDef / 80 Spd / 545 BST
New - 85 HP / 120 Atk / 115 Def / 50 SAtk / 75 SDef / 100 Spd / 545 BST

Ability:
Old - Water Absorb/Hustle
New - No Guard/Unburden

+Extreme Speed
+Close Combat

No Guard synergizes with Power Whip, Dragon Rush, and Stone Edge, while Unburden can be used to capitalize off using a Focus Sash, pinch berries, or a White Herb with Close Combat.
Extreme Speed gives it a form of priority other than Aqua Jet, as well.

With its higher Speed, it has more opportunities to get a Dragon Dance off, and will outspeed more Pokemon after one.

I think I'll also give it U-turn.

However, I do have an alternate idea- what if I made this line Grass/Water? It should make sense, seeing as it's based on apples, which are quite full of water- in fact, most of the weight of an apple is water. This is why it can already learn so many Water moves.
It does have a draconic appearance, but plenty of Pokemon do and lack a Dragon type.
 
Grass/Water would be dope being that its a rarer type. I like no guard synergizing with dragon rush being that dragon rush has never had a good user. Based on what you said above it seems you'd want to make it more offensive, and in that case i would add to the speed. I think an offensive dragon/grass rockign power whip and dragon rush could be really dope.
 
Lithobraker said:
Here's what I was thinking of doing last night, before I saw SevenChurches' reply.
Base Stats:
Old - 85 HP / 120 Atk / 125 Def / 50 SAtk / 85 SDef / 80 Spd / 545 BST
New - 85 HP / 120 Atk / 115 Def / 50 SAtk / 75 SDef / 100 Spd / 545 BST

Ability:
Old - Water Absorb/Hustle
New - No Guard/Unburden

+Extreme Speed
+Close Combat

No Guard synergizes with Power Whip, Dragon Rush, and Stone Edge, while Unburden can be used to capitalize off using a Focus Sash, pinch berries, or a White Herb with Close Combat.
Extreme Speed gives it a form of priority other than Aqua Jet, as well.

With its higher Speed, it has more opportunities to get a Dragon Dance off, and will outspeed more Pokemon after one.

I think I'll also give it U-turn.

However, I do have an alternate idea- what if I made this line Grass/Water? It should make sense, seeing as it's based on apples, which are quite full of water- in fact, most of the weight of an apple is water. This is why it can already learn so many Water moves.
It does have a draconic appearance, but plenty of Pokemon do and lack a Dragon type.
Click to expand...

I like Grass/Water more with the new pair of abilities.
 
Not sure how intent you are on balance given it is a single player game, but if you are, you may want to take a look at Lumineon. In rain (which is probably the best weather to begin with) I genuinely think it's the most broken Pokemon in the game. Outspeeds literally everything (including every Choice Scarf user) in the game, hits like a truck thanks to the rain boost, and if it gets a chance to set up Tail Glow (not hard thanks to its decent bulk and typing along with access to Roost) it pretty much ends the game.

After a single Tail Glow + Life Orb + rain boost:

- Every Electric type dies to Hydro Pump including the bulkier ones that resist water
- Every Pokemon with Dry Skin/Water Absorb dies to Hurricane (even Dunsparce)
- Rock types are out of the question

The only realistic counter play I can think of is a Bastiodon with Stone Edge, or a Blissey with Thunderbolt, but both need to be at close to full health. Unaware Wailord and Walrein can also hope to PP stall Hurricane and hope they don't get crit. It's impossible to check offensively if it's healthy beyond a very strong Accelerock and something like a Choice Band Crawdaunt Sucker Punch.

Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a funny mon to use. But definitely feels overkill even for this game. I would probably just not give it Swift Swim and something else instead, I mean even Natural Cure is great on it since it can act as a fast sweeper with good bulk + recovery that can also act as a status absorber. Or just not give it Tail Glow, but I do like the idea of it (just not with Swift Swim as well)
 
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TopBanter said:
Not sure how intent you are on balance given it is a single player game, but if you are, you may want to take a look at Lumineon. In rain (which is probably the best weather to begin with) I genuinely think it's the most broken Pokemon in the game. Outspeeds literally everything (including every Choice Scarf user) in the game, hits like a truck thanks to the rain boost, and if it gets a chance to set up Tail Glow (not hard thanks to its decent bulk and typing along with access to Roost) it pretty much ends the game.

After a single Tail Glow + Life Orb + rain boost:

- Every Electric type dies to Hydro Pump including the bulkier ones that resist water
- Every Pokemon with Dry Skin/Water Absorb dies to Hurricane (even Dunsparce)
- Rock types are out of the question

The only realistic counter play I can think of is a Bastiodon with Stone Edge, or a Blissey with Thunderbolt, but both need to be at close to full health. Unaware Wailord and Walrein can also hope to PP stall Hurricane and hope they don't get crit. It's impossible to check offensively if it's healthy beyond a very strong Accelerock and something like a Choice Band Crawdaunt Sucker Punch.

Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a funny mon to use. But definitely feels overkill even for this game. I would probably just not give it Swift Swim and something else instead, I mean even Natural Cure is great on it since it can act as a fast sweeper with good bulk + recovery that can also act as a status absorber. Or just not give it Tail Glow, but I do like the idea of it (just not with Swift Swim as well)
Click to expand...

What about Rain Dish? Or, should I not give it any rain abilities at all? I genuinely just overlooked this detail.

Edit- I've noticed Kabutops is probably also capable of doing something similar, with its Swift Swim, 105 Speed, access to Aqua Jet and Accelerock, and Swords Dance- plus, as a Bug/Water type, it now resists Mach Punch and Bullet Punch. So I've elected to revert its Speed to 80- and also give it Water Veil instead of Determined as a secondary.

Edit 2- I'm looking at Gorebyss, which has 72 Speed and Nasty Plot as well as Swift Swim. Do you think that one's a problem?
 
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Lithobraker said:
What about Rain Dish? Or, should I not give it any rain abilities at all? I genuinely just overlooked this detail.

Edit- I've noticed Kabutops is probably also capable of doing something similar, with its Swift Swim, 105 Speed, access to Aqua Jet and Accelerock, and Swords Dance- plus, as a Bug/Water type, it now resists Mach Punch and Bullet Punch. So I've elected to revert its Speed to 80- and also give it Water Veil instead of Determined as a secondary.
Click to expand...

I think giving it another rain ability is kind of tricky, because stuff like Swift Swim and even Hydration would be too insane (imo) but outside of that I think Natural Cure would generally be better. Really up to you though, I mainly just wanted to highlight how overkill Lumineon is atm. Although there are definitely other overbearing Swift Swimmers now that I think about it, like Kabutops as you said and Dragon Dance Swift Swim Huntail (slightly less bonkers as it can be handled reliably by Meganium and a few others). Think you just have to be very careful with boosting moves available to a Swift Swim mon and especially their speed tiers, but outside of that it's fine.
 
How does this sound for Huntail?
Old - 75 HP / 114 Atk / 105 Def / 94 SAtk / 75 SDef / 72 Spd / 535 BST
New - 75 HP / 104 Atk / 105 Def / 114 SAtk / 75 SDef / 62 Spd / 535 BST
+TM79 Dark Pulse compatibility
Click to expand...
The concept is to reduce the power of its Dragon Dance Swift Swim set while opening up more opportunities for it on the Special side. It gets no Special setup, but it does have access to powerful Water STAB and Thunder, which is a rare combination.

Edit- I guess it's also worth mentioning that setup is unavoidably going to be overpowered in some scenarios in Gen 4, because the AI is usually too stupid to switch while you set up, even if it has a Pokemon that could destroy yours in an instant.
 
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Lithobraker said:
How does this sound for Huntail?

The concept is to reduce the power of its Dragon Dance Swift Swim set while opening up more opportunities for it on the Special side. It gets no Special setup, but it does have access to powerful Water STAB and Thunder, which is a rare combination.

Edit- I guess it's also worth mentioning that setup is unavoidably going to be overpowered in some scenarios in Gen 4, because the AI is usually too stupid to switch while you set up, even if it has a Pokemon that could destroy yours in an instant.
Click to expand...

I think that's more interesting for sure yeah, makes both Physical and Special sets highly viable. I think DD is really hard to balance around on a Swift Swim mon though because unless you outright remove the move, you end up nerfing other physical sets as well. But I think your changes are probably fine, Huntail's coverage isn't flawless at least and he is handled by stuff like Meganium and Bellossom.

I think the biggest thing with balance to remember is that you have to remember this is a game with no EVs. This is effectively a buff to offensive Pokemon because EV investment adds noticeably more bulk than it does power, and offensive Pokemon are usually designed with this in mind. So your defensive counterplay to this relies much more on your typing and natural bulk, and this makes strong coverage moves (and in turn boosting moves) disproportionately powerful because it restricts the typing that can handle the mon even further.

With Lumineon for a familiar example, the lack of EVs mean it breaks past both Rotom-Wash (and Frost) and Sinnohan Raichu after a Tail Glow boost in the rain from full health. But if both were invested into special bulk, they would be able to survive a Tail Glow boosted Hydro Pump and OHKO back, i.e. there's more options for defensive counterplay which is otherwise near non-existent to deal with Lumineon.

I don't want to interfere with your balancing really because I do like the changes you've made a lot of the time. But I do get the impression that this game was balanced with the regular EV system in mind. I don't think the lack of EVs itself is the problem because your reasoning for it makes sense with regards to difficulty, it's more about being more conservative with giving some Pokemon access to boosting/strong coverage moves. Swift Swim users are a big offender imo because they jump a ton of speed tiers on top of having boosted Water moves, potentially great coverage on top of boosting moves.
 
Yeah, this problem is kind of unfixable without rebalancing every bulky Pokemon in existence- which would be a huge undertaking(not just to change, but especially to test), and it would probably destroy the base stat totals. The alternative would be worse though- if I reintroduced EVs, NPCs still wouldn't be able to use them, so the player- even if they didn't do specific EV training- would be massively overpowered, and making it truly interesting and difficult would be impossible.
As it stands, there are far larger problems to balancing that I can't fix at all- like players using items in major battles, and the incredibly stupid NPC AI.
For what's currently possible in Generation 4, I'm fairly satisfied with how things have felt in my testing playthrough.
Since many restrictions are impossible to implement(and I'm not even sure I would if I could), the difficulty is kind of up to the player here, and that's fine, I think.
You could always limit yourself- no items in boss trainer battles, don't raise your stats higher than +2 stages, monotype, etc.
It sounds like kind of a copout answer, but it's also the only solution available in Gen 4 at the moment.
 
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Hi, why do chimecho's base stats all end in 8? Just wondering if it is a coincidence or not, because it's very confusing.
 
MontyMoleEnthusiast said:
Hi, why do chimecho's base stats all end in 8? Just wondering if it is a coincidence or not, because it's very confusing.
Click to expand...

There's actually a specific reason for this, in the changelog of the update that made it Fairy/Flying.
Thematically, the type change was done because Chimecho is based on furin, Japanese wind chimes hung around Shinto shrines
that are said to ward off evil spirits, and protect their owners.
The fact that their base stats now all end in 8(for Chimecho) and 7(for Chingling) is a reference to the fact that both
numbers are considered lucky in Japanese culture.
Click to expand...
 
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