[Spoilers] Pokémon XY & Z Speculation

[Z25]

This Mega Sceptile better not be Shota's !
Ash wasn't ready for Charizard during Shota's age and even now he's not worthy of keeping Goodra.
And This Pipsqueak get a Mega Ring before Ash just because he's Tomika's favorite.
Not just that , A Mega Ring can allow Shota to get a Mega Salamence or other megamon if he finds their mega stone.
Just like I said , One Special Greninja can't make up for it!
What writers gonna do ? Turn all Ash's main Pokemon Red & blue .
I'm sick of unworthy Characters getting better thing for free while Ash has prove himself yet he still doesn't get it.
Does Writers think "Favoritism" is Okay as long as they doesn't show it toward Ash ?
Plus , Shota is totally irrelevant in the series ! He lives or dies will not affect the series.
Just like its didn't matter that Cassy failed to qualify for the Jotho League.
Shota is more relevant as pawn to set up a hyped League battle between Ash & an arrogant guy who not only just brutally beat Shota but also breaks his Spirit.
If Pokemon follows the concept of "Ash Journey to become a Pokemon Master" then only relevant Rival are those who influence him to develop into a stronger trainer.
Thats Why Gary & Paul was relevant and better rival because they pushed Ash to be a Stronger trainer. They existed for Ash , Not for themselves.

I have to agree, that sawyer does not deserve a mega before Ash, that's just pretty stupid imo.

 

[Lizardo]

^ Tbh, I'm just afraid it would give the writers full reign to have Shota defeating Satoshi at the league. I'd stomach Tierno defeating him more than I would Shota. We've clearly seen Shota being curbstomped by Satoshi twice, and we know he was behind Satoshi by 5 badges after Valerie's battle, but now were made to believe that both are at semi-equal levels so we can have this mega sceptile vs Satoshi-greninja. I'm just tired of having poorly-developed rivals that are introduced late in the series that are contrived solely for the purpose of defeating Satoshi at the league, whether it was Ritchie, Harrison, Tyson, Tobias, or cameron.

My problem has never been Shota getting a mega when Satoshi doesn't. It's me being tired of awful writing that creates characters specifically for defeating Satoshi at the league time and time again, just so they can say "you tried, good luck in next generation's region." Shota getting a mega, while being behind in terms of badges and skill thus far, opens up the doors for him beating Satoshi at the league.

If the writers want Shouta to defeat Satoshi at the League, it would happen regardless. Mega Jukain wouldn't do anything except be the means as to how he does it. Your issue has less to do with Shouta and Jukain as it does just the writing of the anime in general.

You may forget that Shota is a Rockey !
He & Ash are "Same-Aged" because Ash doesn't age.
But still Shota looks like a 8 year old Kid while Ash look like 12 year old boy ! The only reason we believe Shota to be 10 because he has a Pokemon.
Truth is , Ash & Shota are only Same-Aged because of a F***** up Anime Logic But Ash is still 5 year more experience then Shota !

So what? At no point in the anime is it stated or shown that a character needs to be "X"-years old or have "Y" amount of experience in order to be able to Mega Evolve. All they need are the proper stones and connection with their Pokémon. If Shouta has that, then he and Jukain are as eligible a candidate for Mega Evolution as anyone else is.

Also , The only reason Ash got Ash-Greninja because writers wants to avoid him for getting a Mega Ring So Unworthy trashs can have them.
Ash-Greninja is no different then Rotom or Darmanitan since they can change form as well So it no substitute for Megevolution.

Rotom doesn't become more powerful when it changes form, and that form change isn't powered by the strength of a person's bond to it. So, no, Satoshi-Gekkouga is nothing like Rotom. It's more similar to Groudon and Kyogre's Primal forms in that it functions almost exactly like a Mega Evolution without actually being one. If the writers really had it in for Satoshi, he wouldn't have gotten something specifically stated to rival the power of Mega Jukain and can be seen going up against Mega Lizardon X on a poster.

Pikachu , Charizard , Sceptile , Beyleaf ,Heracross , Infernape , Glalie , Quilava , Krookodile , Leavanny , Swellow , Pignite , Gible , Donphan , Gliscor , Noibat etc has special Bond with Ash but suddenly Greninja show up with Special transformation to show how fickle their bond is.
What Writer gonna do ? Turn Most of Ash's Pokemon into Ash-Pokemon ?

None of those Pokémon save Pikachu and Onbat (neither of which are even fully evolved) are on Satoshi's team this series, so it's a moot point.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

So what? At no point in the anime is it stated or shown that a character needs to be "X"-years old or have "Y" amount of experience in order to be able to Mega Evolve. All they need are the proper stones and connection with their Pokémon. If Shouta has that, then he and Jukain are as eligible a candidate for Mega Evolution as anyone else is.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't Korrina, a character who has a Mega Evolution in the form of Mega Lucario, have a 100-win streak or something? That would suggest a LOT of experience on her part.

 

[Famon]

If the writers want Shouta to defeat Satoshi at the League, it would happen regardless. Mega Jukain wouldn't do anything except be the means as to how he does it. Your issue has less to do with Shouta and Jukain as it does just the writing of the anime in general.

Just because Writer do whatever they want doesn't mean they are right !
Specially since they aren't the original creator of Pokemon! They are just bunch of guys hired to write an Anime series based on Satoshi Teiji's concept.
They aren't even they same writer that created Ash.
Hack , If the Nintendo president didn't intervene then Today James would be Woman in Mans clothing with a Romantic Relationship with Brock.

So what? At no point in the anime is it stated or shown that a character needs to be "X"-years old or have "Y" amount of experience in order to be able to Mega Evolve. All they need are the proper stones and connection with their Pokémon. If Shouta has that, then he and Jukain are as eligible a candidate for Mega Evolution as anyone else is.

Really , Because I remember how Ash wasn't ready for Charmelon so it disobeyed him to the point of causing him humiliating defeat in Kento League ! Not to mention that he still can't keep Goodra.
Even Now Writers are hesitant to give Ash a Mega Ring Or victory in a Long-term Individual Tournament.
Yet , Writer hands over a Free Mega Ring & Mega Sceptile to a complete Rookie like Shota just because he's writers favorite! He doesn't even have to go though all the trial Ash has to get though.

Rotom doesn't become more powerful when it changes form, and that form change isn't powered by the strength of a person's bond to it. So, no, Satoshi-Gekkouga is nothing like Rotom. It's more similar to Groudon and Kyogre's Primal forms in that it functions almost exactly like a Mega Evolution without actually being one. If the writers really had it in for Satoshi, he wouldn't have gotten something specifically stated to rival the power of Mega Jukain and can be seen going up against Mega Lizardon X on a poster.

Rotom does become powerful and gain access to alternate type and attack when it change Forms.
Just like Darmanitan becomes a Psychic type after it change it forms.
Also , Writers only giving Ash an Alternate Greninja So they can hand over a FREE Mega Ring to Shota , Not because they loves Ash ! Just like Writer gave Ash a Goodra So Clemont can have a good excuse for Losing and then dump it for no Reason.
After all , Did the Megazing said that Ash-Greninja's Power exceed Mega Sceptie ? It only said Ash-Greninja just rivals it .
Remember , Pikachu did beat Mega Lucario to stop people from wanting Mega Lucario on Ash's team.
Is their any guaranty that Ash-Greninja will win against Mega Sceptile ? Chance are that Writer just going to make Ash-Greninja to lose to Mega Sceptile in that battle or the League.
Truth is , Whatever Writer does for Ash, They actually does it for Other worthless character! Writer knows that nobody will accept their Love-child Shota getting Free Mega Ring before Ash So they come with this Ash-Greninja so IDIOTS can accept Shota getting a Mega Ring before Ash.

None of those Pokémon save Pikachu and Onbat (neither of which are even fully evolved) are on Satoshi's team this series, so it's a moot point.

Just because Ash isn't using in Oaked Pokemon now doesn't mean they won't appear in the League or Post-league ark.
All those Pokemon also deserve special power and A Mega Ring gives them a fair chance instate of Ash-greninja that steal all the attention away.
Not to mention The Next series !Does writer going to turn the Next Starter into Ash-starter ?

PS : Before you come with a idiotic claim that Shota need to beat Ash , Dawn never beaten Zoey!
Shota position in this anime is same as this Kid--

Spoiler:

 

[Famon]

Now The question is , Will Ash get a new rival in this series ?
Considering Current Ash's level of skill and Competence , The series need an OP Rival.
It can not be someone with obvious plot-amour like Trip or Cameron ! Also , Shota & Tierno doesn't fit the requirement even if they get mega Pokemon and beat Ash 100 times.
The New rival has to be someone experienced with OP level of Power ! Someone who has a Machamp that can destroy a mountain like this--

Ash needs Rival with this level of destructive power !
If Ash going to participate in Kalo league with competitor like Shota or Tierno then it will be a boring ass League like Unova.
Unless AJ and Richie return to face Ash alone with Rosa , Brenden and Lucas.
Pokemon is Kids Battle Anime so the series need Real Overpowered Trainer.
The XY Series was boring because the series didn't have any Real "Obstacle" for Ash to overcome ! So XY&Z series need to create various "Obstacle" without an obvious plot amour.

 

[janejane6178]

Now The question is , Will Ash get a new rival in this series ?
Considering Current Ash's level of skill and Competence , The series need an OP Rival.
It can not be someone with obvious plot-amour like Trip or Cameron ! Also , Shota & Tierno doesn't fit the requirement even if they get mega Pokemon and beat Ash 100 times.
The New rival has to be someone experienced with OP level of Power ! Someone who has a Machamp that can destroy a mountain like this--

Ash needs Rival with this level of destructive power !
If Ash going to participate in Kalo league with competitor like Shota or Tierno then it will be a boring ass League like Unova.
Unless AJ and Richie return to face Ash alone with Rosa , Brenden and Lucas.
Pokemon is Kids Battle Anime so the series need Real Overpowered Trainer.
The XY Series was boring because the series didn't have any Real "Obstacle" for Ash to overcome ! So XY&Z series need to create various "Obstacle" without an obvious plot amour.

Dont even mention Shota or w/e he's called. I think he's even worse than Cameron now that he's gonna posses Mega Evolution, such a dissapointment. And for your question- No, Ash having a psuedo ME doesn't make up for it .

 

[Famon]

Am I the only one furious at Alain beating Malva !
20 years and Ash still isn't ready to beat a ordinary Poacher and Alain beat a E4 member Malva in just 4 episode.
But again , He's Tomika's creation so off course writer going to give him the power Ash still didn't have in 892 episode for FREE .
Lets juat leave the Pros for Alain while Ash deals with Children like Shota.
Oh , Even Children like Shota are more fortunate then Ash because they can get free mega ring .
While Writers create some Anime exclusive Greninja So Ash can never get a Mega Ring .

Don't tell me I'm wrong , Because if Writers are fair then they will let Ash win Kalos League and beat a E4 !

 

[machomuu]

I dunno about the Kalos League part. Once he wins, the viewer's motivation for cheering for Ash will probably diminish greatly, and his objective...wherever he goes next won't be as "compelling". They basically set him up for this, though. Maybe if he'd won early off than the losses would have a greater impact and his journey to the next league would be more compelling because of it.

Now, though, I feel as if him winning and then continuing on to do the same again will do more to hurt the show than to help. Unless Gen 7 does something drastically different (and, in turn, the show follows suit) or possibly if he were relegated to a side character next region and the girl took the reins.

Of course, I don't see any of this happening in Z, anyway. Z's focus will be on Flare, for the most part, and I can't good and well see any reason that this season would be the one for him to win in from a narrative perspective, unless, say, he grows as a character up to that point, but what I've read here doesn't seem to indicate any reason that he would. Talking rivals, I'd say Ash needs a Todd character, someone who's vaguely reflective of himself. They don't need to be antagonistic and, heck, they could be friends, but they both need to result in each other's growth both as a trainer and as people. So I don't think they necessarily need to be OP, though if Mega Evolution is considered a dramatic power-up in the anime then they'd be a good wall to climb for Ash. However, I think a character that uses Mega Evo probably shouldn't be Ash's rival- not unless they're balanced in some way. I think, instead, someone who uses Mega Evo would make a good goal for Ash to accomplish, in much the same way that fighting a Frontier Brain who uses legendaries would. It lets him recognize his own weakness as a trainer and overcome it, seeing that goal as a plateau (or obstacle, as Famon put it) rather than a simple step. The rival, in turn, should be the steps by which he can get to that plateau...so to speak.

As for who? I...can't say. Someone new, maybe? Z's bound to bring in some new characters and, as it stands, a new character seems like they have the most potential of anyone else, at this point.

 

[Famon]

I dunno about the Kalos League part. Once he wins, the viewer's motivation for cheering for Ash will probably diminish greatly, and his objective...wherever he goes next won't be as "compelling". They basically set him up for this, though. Maybe if he'd won early off than the losses would have a greater impact and his journey to the next league would be more compelling because of it.
.

What is the point of the motivation if everyone just accept that Ash will never a win League ?
Haven't you notice Pokemon rating goes down with every series unlike Doreamon or Detective Conan.
Because everytime Ash loses a League , The Motivation decrease So Fans leaves the series!
As for newer fans , They have something better called Youkai Watch that is funny , hilarious and Actually focus on Real Problems that Real Children deals with .
Do you ever seen Ash dealing with any Problem a Real 10 year boy face after Original series ?
Pokemon no longer has the same level of humor Original series once had so if they think Newer fan will just watch the new series just like that then they are wrong Because Only Original Series is Good enough to attract new audience.
Plus , Does Ash's journey really ends with winning a League ?
Ash still has to compete in "Champion League" and become a Champion Master by beating Current E4 champion ! Then he still has to enter "Pokemon World Tournament" that take place in Unova.
Even after that , The series can still run with Ash as protagonist!
Beyblade run for 3 season even after Tyson became World Champion in 1st series , Yugioh run for multiple season even after Atem became "Kings of Games" .
To be honest , Ash barely took a step at all !

Truth is , Ash is less fortunate even among Protagonist of other Pokemon series ! Red (Origin) & Alain (Megevolution) both suppress him within 4 episode while the PokeSpe and other Pokemon Manga Protagonist are far stronger and accomplished.

 

[machomuu]

Ash still has to compete in "Champion League" and become a Champion Master by beating Current E4 champion ! Then he still has to enter "Pokemon World Tournament" that take place in Unova.

Are these even things that happen in the anime? I'd always assumed that, as far as the anime went, being in the Elite 4 was more of a status than it was a job in the way of the games. And as far as the world tournament goes...is that a thing in the anime, either?

But I feel at this point that that motivation is important. Hell, I'd say that now, it's probably the only reason the viewer has any reason to cheer for the guy. 'Cause it's been his goal for so long and he's failed so many times that if he just stopped, the reason for his adventure would end. Nothing- wait, hold on, we're getting off track.

My point is, in reference to Z, I don't see him winning partially since he still has this whole Team Flare business to deal with, and also because he supposedly hasn't had any real seeds of development in XY that would lead to a revelation or even a change in Z. If him winning after all this time was just that, him winning with no clear development or build up, not only would it breed massive disappointment, but it would also seem like a waste of the last 20 years. And as far as other shows go, they're different in that Pokemon is loosely adapted from a game where the MC's goal is always to challenge gyms and become champion, just like Ash. Even if the championship was a thing in the anime, just taking on the XY E4- or any E4, for that matter, was never the goal, and if he did take them on, the viewer would have to wonder about the other E4s. Functionally, though, they don't serve any purpose to the plot- they're unrelated to what Ash is trying to do. If they were to change the goal, Z certainly wouldn't be the place to do it.

On a side-note, Atem was the King of Games from the start of the series. This is why, prior to the whole "Yami Yugi" and "Pharaoh" naming, he's just known as "Yu-Gi-Oh" (or, the King of Games).

EDIT: With all this in mind, I just watched the OP for XY & Z. Apart from being very good, it put into perspective how powerful Mega Evolution can be as a narrative tool for Ash's development as a character and his relationship with Greninja. If they wanted to, they could do a hell of a lot with this. I'm definitely interested.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Are these even things that happen in the anime? I'd always assumed that, as far as the anime went, being in the Elite 4 was more of a status than it was a job in the way of the games. And as far as the world tournament goes...is that a thing in the anime, either?

But I feel at this point that that motivation is important. Hell, I'd say that now, it's probably the only reason the viewer has any reason to cheer for the guy. 'Cause it's been his goal for so long and he's failed so many times that if he just stopped, the reason for his adventure would end. Nothing- wait, hold on, we're getting off track.

My point is, in reference to Z, I don't see him winning partially since he still has this whole Team Flare business to deal with, and also because he supposedly hasn't had any real seeds of development in XY that would lead to a revelation or even a change in Z. If him winning after all this time was just that, him winning with no clear development or build up, not only would it breed massive disappointment, but it would also seem like a waste of the last 20 years. And as far as other shows go, they're different in that Pokemon is loosely adapted from a game where the MC's goal is always to challenge gyms and become champion, just like Ash. Even if the championship was a thing in the anime, just taking on the XY E4- or any E4, for that matter, was never the goal, and if he did take them on, the viewer would have to wonder about the other E4s. Functionally, though, they don't serve any purpose to the plot- they're unrelated to what Ash is trying to do. If they were to change the goal, Z certainly wouldn't be the place to do it.

On a side-note, Atem was the King of Games from the start of the series. This is why, prior to the whole "Yami Yugi" and "Pharaoh" naming, he's just known as "Yu-Gi-Oh" (or, the King of Games).

EDIT: With all this in mind, I just watched the OP for XY & Z. Apart from being very good, it put into perspective how powerful Mega Evolution can be as a narrative tool for Ash's development as a character and his relationship with Greninja. If they wanted to, they could do a hell of a lot with this. I'm definitely interested.

To answer your question, one of the Sinnoh Elite 4 members, I think Flint, basically mentioned that Ash needs to first win a league, then fight the region's Elite 4, then fight the Champion Master, and then, and only then, can he hope to become a Pokémon Master.

Personally, however, they should have ended the show when Ash won the Orange Islands league, heck, even have Ash actually win Johto if not that.

 

[Lizardo]

Really , Because I remember how Ash wasn't ready for Charmelon so it disobeyed him to the point of causing him humiliating defeat in Kento League ! Not to mention that he still can't keep Goodra.
Even Now Writers are hesitant to give Ash a Mega Ring Or victory in a Long-term Individual Tournament.
Yet , Writer hands over a Free Mega Ring & Mega Sceptile to a complete Rookie like Shota just because he's writers favorite! He doesn't even have to go though all the trial Ash has to get though.

Again, so what? You're talking about two different characters with two different Pokemon in two different series separated by almost two decades. The fact that Satoshi had trouble with Lizardon all the way back in OS doesn't mean the writers need to repeat the process with each new character that comes along. Back to XY&Z, Shouta only needs three things - a connection with his Pokemon, a Key Stone, and a Mega Stone. Not a certain amount of experience or to be a certain age. No one has ever stated that.

Rotom does become powerful and gain access to alternate type and attack when it change Forms.
Just like Darmanitan becomes a Psychic type after it change it forms.
Also , Writers only giving Ash an Alternate Greninja So they can hand over a FREE Mega Ring to Shota , Not because they loves Ash ! Just like Writer gave Ash a Goodra So Clemont can have a good excuse for Losing and then dump it for no Reason.
After all , Did the Megazing said that Ash-Greninja's Power exceed Mega Sceptie ? It only said Ash-Greninja just rivals it .

I'm going off Gojika's words when she said Satoshi and Gekkouga would achieve new heights together, the implication being that this was something only one other person had been able to accomplish. The implication in XY092 was that Gekkouga was something even more special than regular Mega Evolution. We see Gekkouga fight Jukain in the opening on an even footing, and a battle with Alan's Lizardon has already been foreshadowed. The Satoshi-Gekkouga is a Mega Evolution equivalent, same as Primal Groudon and Kyogre. That's not like Rotom, and you know that.

Remember , Pikachu did beat Mega Lucario to stop people from wanting Mega Lucario on Ash's team.
Is their any guaranty that Ash-Greninja will win against Mega Sceptile ? Chance are that Writer just going to make Ash-Greninja to lose to Mega Sceptile in that battle or the League.
Truth is , Whatever Writer does for Ash, They actually does it for Other worthless character! Writer knows that nobody will accept their Love-child Shota getting Free Mega Ring before Ash So they come with this Ash-Greninja so IDIOTS can accept Shota getting a Mega Ring before Ash.
Just because Ash isn't using in Oaked Pokemon now doesn't mean they won't appear in the League or Post-league ark.
All those Pokemon also deserve special power and A Mega Ring gives them a fair chance instate of Ash-greninja that steal all the attention away.
Not to mention The Next series !Does writer going to turn the Next Starter into Ash-starter ?

Look, this is a television show. The characters are fictional. No one "deserves" anything. The writers could just as easily not give Satoshi a special Gekkouga, a Mega Evolution, or even a Gekkouga in the first place, and it'd be just as fair.

No, there's no guarantee that Gekkouga will beat Mega Jukain or Alan's Lizardon. We don't know. But the very fact that it can go toe-to-toe with them with a reasonable chance of success in the future is more than the writers have ever given Satoshi in the past, and more than he should have been expected to get in XY following BW. But you're too hung up on a freaking Key Stone to see that.

Look at it like this. If "worthless characters" like Shouta can apparently get a Mega with enough effort, then it's really not worth all that much in the long run. So why does it matter so much that Satoshi gets one? He already has an extra powerful Pokemon on his roster, far more "special" than any Mega Evolution.

PS : Before you come with a idiotic claim that Shota need to beat Ash , Dawn never beaten Zoey!
Shota position in this anime is same as this Kid--

Spoiler:

Quit doing this. Pocket Monsters is not, nor will it ever be, whatever other anime you're trying to push this week. Either evaluate it for what it is, or just watch whatever other show you desperately want it to be.

 

[Iceshadow3317]

So with the new opening, it would seem that Greninja's form is a type of Mega Evolution. It would seem that Greninja and Ash will have a falling out after Ash seems to give up hope of either getting beat or thinking that he has to have Mega Evolution to be the best. But later on, rejoin and Greninja goes through some type of mega evolution as the form is only in battle. Probably in a similar way to Rayquaza's Mega Evolution.

 

[PVT.Sceptile]

well the new opening is here and not only the rookie is getting a free mega sceptile he is also going to beat greninja without mega evolving and causing another trainer-pokemon conflict in ash's character. YAY
oh and alan i guess......going full rage........

 

[janejane6178]

well the new opening is here and not only the rookie is getting a free mega sceptile he is also going to beat greninja without mega evolving and causing another trainer-pokemon conflict in ash's character. YAY
oh and alan i guess......going full rage........

It's a complete joke lol.
Yes. I get it . Sawyer has more time to train since he travels alone + He doesn't encounter TR in every path he goes but still. I think that at this point, after so many years and regions he's been to, Ash should get an experienced rival.. like Paul.

 

[Lizardo]

Sigh…

Working off the assumption that the Satoshi and Gekkouga sequence in the OP actually means something, I don't see why this is such a big deal.

Shouta is five badges in. You can speculate on the time span between XY075 and XYZ001 all you want, but the point where he could legitimately be called a rookie is long gone now. If he had time to collect those badges, he's had time to develop an actual battle style of his own and come up with his own strategies. He may have less actual experience than Satoshi does, but Satoshi himself has less experience than most of the Gym Leaders he's been able to beat.

Therefore, it's not a "Shooti in BW001" case where the idea of Shouta defeating Satoshi – using a Pokémon he's just had for this series alone, anyway – stretches all believability, as he's just stepping out of the lab with his first Pokémon. He's fought Satoshi, he's lost, and he has five badges. Shouta now has his own experiences to draw from. So can we drop the "rookie" complaints now?

I'm not going to go into how stupid it is to complain about Shouta's experience (or lack thereof) when considering his eligibility for Mega Evolution, because it's a moot point. If you're going to focus on how long Satoshi's been around, then you need to realize that for the vast majority of Satoshi's existence, Mega Evolution didn't exist.

And if your hang up on all this extends only to the fact that Satoshi doesn't have a Key Stone, well… I don't know what to tell you. Except that I find your fascination with a tool that only exist to help you Mega Evolve your Pokemon (which Satoshi and Gekkouga don't need) is bizarre to me.

For whatever it's worth, I hope the Satoshi and Gekkouga part of the OP - where Gekkouga walks away from a depressed-looking Satoshi - happens in the anime. As a character, Satoshi has suffered in both BW and XY without an actual character arc of its own. I'm not thrilled with the idea of Shouta beating him (Alan makes sense, though), if it forces Satoshi to actually get that, then it's all worth it. And it'd make Satoshi-Gekkouga that much more worth it.

 

[PVT.Sceptile]

It's a complete joke lol.

yes i was just joking even though i wanted ash to have mega sceptile , i understand that sawyer can train alot not go to showcases and fight team rocket there fore he is actually quite experienced now but i still have one more question....
what about his bagon and other pokemon.
on a side note i am REALLY looking forward to noibat's evolution possibly against vulfric.

 

[machomuu]

It explain why you claimed Pokemon to be in Same level as "Gintama" & "The Simpsons" since you didn't watch other series of Pokemon.

Woahwoahwoahwoah
Woahwoahwoah
woah

I never said that.

Don't say that I said that.

Those words are not things that I said. I said it follows a similar format to sitcoms, not that it's on the same level, and even that's not what I said. Also how? Gintama's one of my favorite shows, so I don't really see how not watching this show that I'm kind of interested in would put it on that level. Don't make no damn sense.

Oh My God , You never watched DP Series ! didn't you ???
Champion League first debuted in DP 035 where Lucian was defeating a challenger.
Lucian also said himself that When A trainer wins the Regional League Conference , He qualify to compete in Champion League.
Also in DP191 , Ash himself quoted that his goal is to win the League conference and participate in Champion League to become a "Champion Master".
If you don't believe me then Watch those episode yourself.

Also , The entire concept of Pokemon is Ash's Journey to become a Pokemon Master ! Winning a League is more important for him then saving the world.
"Z-Ark" is nothing more then a Villainous arc that will be over in 10 or 20 episode ! Just like all other villainous ark.
Ash isn't traveling to become a Hero , he traveling to become a Pokemon/Champion Master!
Also , Are you claiming that the 20 years of development is not enough for Ash to win a League But Alain being Lysendre's Leakey for 4 episode and his "Off-screen" development is enough to beat an E4 Member ?
Truth is , Alain didn't receive near as much as Development as Ash did But he was allow to beat E4 because he's a creation of Current Writers !
Off-screen stand for "No development" ! When Writer needs a Character to get everything without afford and development then they use "Off-screen" as a excuse.
Why Shota get a Mega Ring ? Because he train hard Off-screen ! LIKE HE EVEN EXIST IN OFF-SCREEN .
Its like A Rich Kid who get everything without afford because he has powerful father that gets him everything.
Seriously , What was the point of Orange League & Battle Frontier ? What is the point of all the lecture , "Lesson" and development Ash gets if trash like Alain & Shota get everything for free.
Now that Alain beat an E4 member , Its absolutely important for Ash to win a League and beat an E4 member.
Because another time Ash get beaten by a E4 member , The entire Internet will be fill with comment about how Alain & Origin Red are better Protagonist then Ash because they can beat a E4 member while Ash is a loser who can win a Simple League.

But again Since you probably didn't watch Pokemon much , It understandable why you think that way.

But no, I didn't watch DP. Not most of it, anyway. Watched the couple of episodes when they were hyping for DP's release on the DS. But I was pretty jaded in regards to the voice changes that took place back in Battle Frontier and the opening was...bad (Not Together, the English one). Among other things. So yeah, no. Even by AG I'd only been casually watching Pokemon, though to be fair I had seen a good deal of it. Most, I'd say. Considering I've basically watched 10 seasons, "didn't watch Pokemon much" is a big statement to make. That's three leagues (well, four, technically) and a wasted Frontier Brain Membership. Certainly enough for me to know that Pokemon isn't the type of show that you need to see every episode of to know what's going on, so how much I've seen isn't an issue.

And you're seriously misquoting me on this. First off, "Champion Master" and "Pokemon Master aren't the same thing. If beating the League gets him the former, my statements still stand. The League isn't an obstacle, and considering you have to reference all the way back to early DP to get that info, I'd say it's functionally less significant than the tournament.

Also, you're seriously misquoting me on this. I didn't say 20 of development wasn't enough, I said it would be a waste of 20 years of development. Loooots of misquoting.

My whole point, which I stand by even more now, is that very likely won't see a League Champion Ash in Z strictly for character reasons. I see flecks of development, or at least character-related action in the XY & Z opening, and that's a good thing. I like his relationship with Greninja and the conflict, both personal and interpersonal, that the season sets up, but if the personal conflict leads to nothing, there's no reason for him to overcome the obstacle. It wouldn't be good for the narrative and it wouldn't be good for the show, plus since it's happened so many times already then him winning would basically just be relegated to lazy writing, which makes sense considering that if his continuous losses are, if not a fault of his character, at least a fault of him as a trainer.

 

[Famon]

Next Two XY&Z episode are just Team Rocket filler While the 3rd episode is about a random Litleo.
May be , Shota get a Keystone for helping a Nurse Joy with Mega Audino.
We won't see any real development until November 26.
God know , How long we got to wait to see Ash-Greninja !

Those words are not things that I said. I said it follows a similar format to sitcoms, not that it's on the same level,

Isn't that the same thing!
You said Pokemon is like Gintama & The Simpsons Even though those show follow different format then Pokemon and even geared to different audience.

But no, I didn't watch DP. Not most of it, anyway. Watched the couple of episodes when they were hyping for DP's release on the DS. But I was pretty jaded in regards to the voice changes that took place back in Battle Frontier (which I didn't watch much of) and the opening was...bad (Not Together, the English one. Among other things. So yeah, no. Even by AG I'd only been casually watching Pokemon, though to be fair I had seen a good deal of it. Considering I've basically watched 10 seasons, "didn't watch Pokemon much" is a big statement to make. That's three leagues (well, four, technically) and a wasted Frontier Brain Membership. Certainly enough for me to know that Pokemon isn't the type of show that you need to see every episode of to know what's going on, so how much I've seen isn't an issue.

And you're seriously misquoting me on this. First off, "Champion Master" and "Pokemon Master aren't the same thing. If beating the League gets him the former, my statements still stand. The League isn't an obstacle, and considering you have to reference all the way back to early DP to get that info, I'd say it's functionally less significant than the tournament.

Also, you're seriously misquoting me on this. I didn't say 20 of development wasn't enough, I said it would be a waste of 20 years of development. Loooots of misquoting.

Oh Then I guess Ash has 2 goals !
One is to be Pokemon Master & Another is to be Champion Master Since he did said his goal is to be Champion Master in DP 191.
Or Pokemon Master is just an alternate name for Champion Master.
Just like Contest-Idol , Top Coordinator , Contest Master all means the same thing.
Watch DP series before trying to prove me wrong.

My whole point, which I stand by even more now, is that very likely won't see a League Champion Ash in Z strictly for character reasons. I see flecks of development, or at least character-related action in the XY & Z opening, and that's a good thing. I like his relationship with Greninja and the conflict, both personal and interpersonal, that the season sets up, but if the personal conflict leads to nothing, there's no reason for him to overcome the obstacle. It wouldn't be good for the narrative and it wouldn't be good for the show, plus since it's happened so many times already then him winning would basically just be relegated to lazy writing, which makes sense considering that if his continuous losses are, if not a fault of his character, at least a fault of him as a trainer.

These entire Series is about him becoming Pokemon Master.
Winning the League is just his 1st step to reach his goal So it is an Obstacle in Ash's Way to overcome.
Ash winning the Kalo League not a waste of 20 year of development ! Its a waste of 20 year of development when Ash still can not win a Simple league conference even after all the development he gone though in Original, AG & DP series.
But again I'm talking about a Guy who never bother to Watch DP series to know what kind of Development Ash being though.
Currently , Its the right time for Ash to win a League Specially if "Essentia" get involve in Kalo League.
After all , What would the best place for Xerosic to test Essentia suit except for the League !

 

[janejane6178]

Next Two XY&Z episode are just Team Rocket filler While the 3rd episode is about a random Litleo.
May be , Shota get a Keystone for helping a Nurse Joy with Mega Audino.
We won't see any real development until November 26.
God know , How long we got to wait to see Ash-Greninja !


Isn't that the same thing!
You said Pokemon is like Gintama & The Simpsons Even though those show follow different format then Pokemon and even geared to different audience.


Oh Then I guess Ash has 2 goals !
One is to be Pokemon Master & Another is to be Champion Master Since he did said his goal is to be Champion Master in DP 191.
Or Pokemon Master is just an alternate name for Champion Master.
Just like Contest-Idol , Top Coordinator , Contest Master all means the same thing.
Watch DP series before trying to prove me wrong.

These entire Series is about him becoming Pokemon Master.
Winning the League is just his 1st step to reach his goal So it is an Obstacle in Ash's Way to overcome.
Ash winning the Kalo League not a waste of 20 year of development ! Its a waste of 20 year of development when Ash still can not win a Simple league conference even after all the development he gone though in Original, AG & DP series.
But again I'm talking about a Guy who never bother to Watch DP series to know what kind of Development Ash being though.
Currently , Its the right time for Ash to win a League Specially if "Essentia" get involve in Kalo League.
After all , What would the best place for Xerosic to test Essentia suit except for the League !

Omg you're so right. I want Iris to return already too :/
I guess she won't show up anytime soon tho..