Pokémon's dungeon design

[Mab]

So recently I was watching a video series about the dungeon design in LoZ games. I've barely played any Zelda so most of this was new to me, and I was struck by how far ahead the dungeon design has always been compared to the typical "dungeon" (forests, large caves, legendary dens, etc) in Pokémon. This helped me explain my longstanding gripe with such areas in Pokémon that I've never really been able to put into words.

I think that dungeons in Pokémon are actually all pretty terrible and haven't improved at all over the course of the series. Almost uniformly they're large single rooms divvied up into stretched out hallways. There are no puzzles besides the occasional Strength puzzle, navigation varies in difficulty but is generally very easy, the route is completely preset, there's no backtracking (accomplished in Zelda with keys and locks), and the area themes are pretty uninspired. In the newer games these areas don't even bother to be mazes, they're basically completely linear so uh, nice level design?

This isn't to say that it's a black mark on Pokémon - after all, those kinds of areas don't play the same role as they do in LoZ. It's simply not the focus of the game. But man do I wish they could mix it up. I think most of us probably at least mildly dislike many of Pokémon's caves - they force you to wind back and forth, the wild Pokemon are annoying, the areas all look the same, and on top of everything they're just boring to navigate through.

There are some hard dungeons especially in the early games - Cerulean Cave, Seafoam Islands, some Victory Roads, and those aren't bad. But I still felt like the Pokemon spawns, totally uniform appearance, and lack of a single interesting feature until you reach the end prevented me from enjoying the difficult navigation and anticipating the final goal.

What do you think? Am I overanalyzing? Is this apples and oranges? Or would you too like to see this fleshed out a bit? Do you have other Pokémon dungeons that you think are really good?

 

[pkmin3033]

I suppose Pokemon's intended target audience necessitates simplicity in its design...or maybe accessibility would be a nicer way of putting it. Anyone can find their way through linear corridors after all, and with route design having smaller branching pathways and occasional hidden secrets such as items and special NPCs, I've always had the sense that the games want to keep you focused on the end goal but at the same time offer you a little - VERY little - chance for exploration if that's what you're interested in...and yes, this would apply to SnS' Wild Area as well, which is just a larger version that lets you run around in a less confined space. The Wild Area isn't any kind of step forward, it's just a step outward. The problem is the lack of variety and content, not the lack of space. Or at least, it's a problem if you're an older player who wants more out of Pokemon than shuttling from one area to the next.

Dungeons are just a change of scenery, rather than dungeons in the traditional RPG sense. And I guess that's...fine? The past Pokemon dungeons that have actually BEEN dungeons - or just larger caves; whatever - have gone for labyrinthine length over actual difficulty. You don't get stuck, you just get lost, and that's extremely tiresome and in a sense an even poorer choice in design than nothing but linear routes, because there isn't really any kind of progression in any meaningful sense. I mean, sure, there have been Strength-based puzzles and the like, but they've always been obstacles for obstacles' sake, rather than challenges with a purpose. You shift a boulder out the way, you move on. You wander around for ages. You get out. It's just another way of getting from Point A to Point B, and it's unnecessarily complex because you don't get anything else out of it...unless you go for the optional items and Pokemon, of course, but they're optional; you don't NEED them to clear the game. If you don't need them, why do you need to go through an awkwardly convoluted labyrinth just to get out?

It's not what I play Pokemon for, truthfully. If I want a dungeon with puzzles that actually ties into the gameplay flow, I'll play an Action/Adventure game, or a proper RPG where dungeons are often more than just obstacles to overcome and are a key part of the narrative in some fashion. Pokemon has never really had these things, and I actually think their removal in later games compared to the first couple of generations in particular is a good thing, because they were poorly designed and a very irritating distraction. Much like the narrative. Now if only they would remove THAT as well...