Pokemon and the path to manhood

[doesn't matter]

If you look at every single culture and civilisation, they each had a rite or tradition that took a young boy and turned him into a man. These boys would leave the protection of their mother and to suffer and endure hardships and pain, and upon returning, would be considered to be a man.

I believe that this has many parallels with the Pokemon series. Young boys leave their mothers and go on a journey to endure suffering, hardships, pains and difficulties to overcome a number of trials. Pokemon really is the story of young boys becoming men if you think about it this way.

Yes you have female trainers, but male trainers have pretty much always been the most dominant and prevalent characters in the series, and chances are the girls were just put in for some fanservice for the sake of the main target audience, young boys :P. In any case, Pokemon is a series created by males targeted primarily at males.

Anyway, an extension of this parallel is that the characters in Pokemon never really grow up, remaining as children forever, traveling from place to place. Now of course this might just be a business decision, but it offers a frightening comparison to our society today, where today in our generation, adolescence has been extended, and we do not really grow up at all.

Do you agree or not? How do you feel about what I've said above? I hope we can have an interesting discussion about this here.

Also, have this lovely image.

 

[Oryx]

I definitely agree that becoming a Pokemon trainer is a "rite of passage" for kids in the Pokemon world, or at least it's a metaphor for a rite of passage in our world. Because we do know that not everyone has to become a Trainer, but to us it's pretty much everyone since there's no Pokemon game where you use Pokemon to help you run your bakery, haha. I'm not so sure I agree that girls were added as fanservice since their target audience is basically young boys (plus the first girl looked like this haha, not exactly fanservice material there), instead I would say that they put it in there to appeal more to girls to expand their market base, but I still agree that the game was created for boys and still is mainly for boys although it's less completely targeted on them nowadays.

I'm not so sure that you can call children on a Pokemon journey not 'grown up' though. I mean, if you think about it, they're doing more 'adult' things than I am right now. They're meeting new people pretty much every day, learning to cook for themselves, live on their own, and interact with society in general. They have sole responsibility for what they do, with the only real support system being the Pokemon Centers if they happen to end the day inside a town. They have to learn to allocate their resources (they have to be able to carry everything with them, but still have enough to make it to a new place and have emergency money left over) and apparently in their world deal with/control crime because the police system is crap and the trainers have to handle themselves haha. I would argue that the act of leaving grows them up and in the Pokemon world, that's the equivalent of a kid leaving the house for good in our world. So maybe it's the developer's wish that young children become men at 10 years old?

 

[Dave_]

I'm not so sure that you can call children on a Pokemon journey not 'grown up' though. I mean, if you think about it, they're doing more 'adult' things than I am right now. They're meeting new people pretty much every day, learning to cook for themselves, live on their own, and interact with society in general. They have sole responsibility for what they do, with the only real support system being the Pokemon Centers if they happen to end the day inside a town. They have to learn to allocate their resources (they have to be able to carry everything with them, but still have enough to make it to a new place and have emergency money left over) and apparently in their world deal with/control crime because the police system is crap and the trainers have to handle themselves haha. I would argue that the act of leaving grows them up and in the Pokemon world, that's the equivalent of a kid leaving the house for good in our world. So maybe it's the developer's wish that young children become men at 10 years old?

Things like the scouts etc teach you resonsbilities, Cooking, outdoor camping, a leadership structure with respect being given to those in a higher rank

Education, Employment, Hobbies, Public Transport
The above is something that as far as I was aware kids go through well before they turn 16, at least in scotland anyway..

Interacting within society is a given in most of these, Your day to day encounters with, what i presume to be common to younger teens, shop keepers, Their money may be earned through something like a paper route or similiar ' saturday job ' or given by parents but they still have the freedom to go out with friends and do things

I say 16 because although the show says it is what a ten year old would do they do seem older and more in a teenage .. age..? lol Probably the age stated was for the target audience, Tweens i think they're called..? haha

Going back to industrial age britain kids as young as 6 were up chimneys or in mines working away now their is more of a focus on establishing an education, gaining a degree etc

Which in the swing of things is the compelte opposite of how this generation is doign things, Having to be more dependant on parents most of the time so they can get a degree and it not being financially viable in most cases for children to stray to far from home..

But... If you keep it more relevant to the show/game...

Everyone seems to walk around, and they are set on small islands, It might jsut be a case of the parents not minding that the children are going away because if you take away the time between episodes and presume each episode is an entire day.. each season is only a couple of weeks in what would be our presumed timeline, which could give further reason as to why they dont seem to age?

I cant dcide wether this is relevant or not to my point but ... How often do the trainers encounter adults?
This could all be their form of an afterschool club or ecuation system for real life, a summer school if you will where the entire island which is small allows all the children to go out to experience these things which we see as freedom but in actual fact is fully set out and controlled by the adults/parents

Every trainer knows to go to a poke centre when they first come to town, This could be something set up by the adults as a sort of check in system, If you remember the first series when ash is on the phone to oak he quite often is told where the other trainers are and how they are getting on

The towns are generally set out full circle with the gyms being almost linear again suggesting they have a pre-set path goverened by parents it is jsut shown from the childs point of view and their experiences a long the way..

The trials and tribulations could also be shown through the child/trainers eyes making things like the weather seem worse than it is, the duration of time they are away from home and the length of time they are actually away, What may feel like forever for a kid might only be a week..

I hadn't actually thought about it before but now that I do I feel almost certain that its a rite of passage that is set by the parents to allow the children to feel independant

I'll stop there ... haha

 

[Oryx]

Things like the scouts etc teach you resonsbilities, Cooking, outdoor camping, a leadership structure with respect being given to those in a higher rank

Is that really a common thing? I've only met one person in my entire life (taking into account I've moved a ton of times so I've met a lot of kids) that was in the boy scouts. Around 4-5 in the girl scouts. Maybe it's more common in other countries though, or in areas I haven't lived?

Education, Employment, Hobbies, Public Transport
The above is something that as far as I was aware kids go through well before they turn 16, at least in scotland anyway..

Interacting within society is a given in most of these, Your day to day encounters with, what i presume to be common to younger teens, shop keepers, Their money may be earned through something like a paper route or similiar ' saturday job ' or given by parents but they still have the freedom to go out with friends and do things

That depends on the child. I know plenty of my friends that have never had a job, and I didn't have one myself until I was 18 and in college. I would say children in the real world have much less responsibility than child Pokemon trainers in the Pokemon world. Most of the people I knew got the education part, got the hobbies part, but not the rest.

I say 16 because although the show says it is what a ten year old would do they do seem older and more in a teenage .. age..? lol Probably the age stated was for the target audience, Tweens i think they're called..? haha

I think the target audience is in fact the people the age of the characters. Think about it, you're 10 years old, your parents are probably protective of you cause that's still pretty young, you feel adult enough to do adult things but they won't let you. You watch Pokemon and get to see all these kids your age doing things that are so mature and grown-up!

Going back to industrial age britain kids as young as 6 were up chimneys or in mines working away now their is more of a focus on establishing an education, gaining a degree etc

Which in the swing of things is the compelte opposite of how this generation is doign things, Having to be more dependant on parents most of the time so they can get a degree and it not being financially viable in most cases for children to stray to far from home..

Yeah, you're right about that.

But... If you keep it more relevant to the show/game...

Everyone seems to walk around, and they are set on small islands, It might jsut be a case of the parents not minding that the children are going away because if you take away the time between episodes and presume each episode is an entire day.. each season is only a couple of weeks in what would be our presumed timeline, which could give further reason as to why they dont seem to age?

It's not that they don't seem to, they literally don't. In the first season there's a time where they said it's been a year since they've been to Viridian, but Ash is still 10. There was also a short where Ash said it's been a year since he met Pikachu but he's still 10 haha. I think Pokemon is similar to any show; they crop out all the boring crap like walking on a straight path for 3 days so they can spend their airtime instead highlighting exciting gym battles and interesting characters.

I cant dcide wether this is relevant or not to my point but ... How often do the trainers encounter adults?
This could all be their form of an afterschool club or ecuation system for real life, a summer school if you will where the entire island which is small allows all the children to go out to experience these things which we see as freedom but in actual fact is fully set out and controlled by the adults/parents

I believe it's quite often, although I can't vouch for that really. But I mean in the games at least in every town there are tons of adults, the evil teams are adults, even some of the trainers are adults.

Every trainer knows to go to a poke centre when they first come to town, This could be something set up by the adults as a sort of check in system, If you remember the first series when ash is on the phone to oak he quite often is told where the other trainers are and how they are getting on

This is quite true. Does Ash check in with Oak or his mother often in the anime? I'm not sure really because I don't watch it much but it would seem more like supervised growing up if he did, rather than moving out like I suggested.

The towns are generally set out full circle with the gyms being almost linear again suggesting they have a pre-set path goverened by parents it is jsut shown from the childs point of view and their experiences a long the way..

The trials and tribulations could also be shown through the child/trainers eyes making things like the weather seem worse than it is, the duration of time they are away from home and the length of time they are actually away, What may feel like forever for a kid might only be a week..

I hadn't actually thought about it before but now that I do I feel almost certain that its a rite of passage that is set by the parents to allow the children to feel independant

I'll stop there ... haha

The gyms are only linear in the games, really, and that's only because the games like linear things. In the manga the gyms are the same in level, and can be challenged in any order, and in the anime there are no levels so there's really no way to say that one gym is stronger than another.

I like that idea of the viewpoint though! I had never thought of the idea that weather conditions and fight difficulties and such could be affected by the viewpoint of a child. I think that would make an interesting thread in the anime section, actually.

 

[GibbyGibson]

Even when I was a kid watching the show, I kind of figured that the main premise, if you narrowed down the story so much that you take all elements out of it, would be the journey and leaving of the comfort of your own home to travel, learn, grow, and become an adult. But I never saw it as just being for males only.

And just like Toujours said, I con't think you can say the characters in the game / anime are just children. They've done more adult things then I have, even if they are just plot points to lead to an end goal for an enjoyable game / show. The fact that children are allowed to travel all over a specific land, learning about their surroundings, growing up and dealing with the elements, other trainers, hardships and adapting shows that their growing up pattern is different then ours truly are.

Education, Employment, Hobbies, Public Transport
The above is something that as far as I was aware kids go through well before they turn 106, at least in scotland anyway..

Like you said, that might be a Scotland thing. Here where I live, I've never seen someone use any sort of public transportation or allow their child to walk to school because of the 'horror' of what might happen to them. Most locations around here won't even allow children younger then 16 to work there, so unless they are working in a family business, that's sort of at the end of your time frame. The Education and Hobbies is about the only ones I can agree with. Those two (depending on the person) can really get you to start growing up and adapting depending on the situation you are in.

because if you take away the time between episodes and presume each episode is an entire day... each season is only a couple of weeks in what would be our presumed timeline

The first season (Sekiei / Indigo League) contained 82 episodes (including the banned ones). That's roughly 11.7 weeks. So if we take every episode released so far, 726 (not including specials and movies) you have 103.7 weeks, which equals to about 1.99 years. I can understand what you are saying, but mathematically it doesn't work. Satoshi / Ash is still 10, because that is the target audience for the show / game.

Every trainer knows to go to a poke centre when they first come to town, This could be something set up by the adults as a sort of check in system, If you remember the first series when ash is on the phone to oak he quite often is told where the other trainers are and how they are getting on

Yes, I can see the Pokémon Centers as being a place to go first, because if our world revolved around children as young as 10 traveling from place to place, battling with mystical monsters that we capture in mechanical balls, then I would be teaching my child when it's their turn about the importance of being someplace safe. It's just like in todays standards we teach our children if there is any problem to look for a police officer or call 911.

I always thought that when Satoshi called Dr. Yukinari Okido / Professor Oak, Okido was just telling Satoshi what he was told when he was on the phone with them previously. As is stated in the show, Satoshi is not very good at calling on a regular basis. Maybe the other trainers are?

The gyms are only linear in the games, really, and that's only because the games like liear things. In the manga the gyms are the same in level, and can be challenged in any order, and in the anime there are no levels so there's really no way to say that one gym is stronger then another.

I have to agree with you on most of this. But in the first season (USA), episode The School of Hard Knocks they mention levels quite a bit. I remember them saying something about Pikachu being around level 25 at the time. So while it's not a promonite aspect in the anime, it is somewhat still there. Maybe not as much now days, but it has been stated at least that once.

But this is really getting away from the focus of this post. Can you say that this traveling from place t place is a right of passage in order to grow up? I think it is. It's on par with todays standards of us having to 'graduate college, get a job, have a family' etc. like that. But not everyone's story is the same. The game's don't reflect this much with their limited nature, but the manga and anime show there are many paths there. You just have to pick the one that works best for you.

GibbyGibson

[EDIT: NOTE]
I just wanted to say that I'm sorry if this post may seem a little nit-picky. I've always been a fan of facts and I want to bring as much as I can when I post something. After a reread of this after posting, it seemed a little like I may be picking on some things said, and I just wanted to say that wasn't my intent. I did not edit any of the post with this edit beyond adding this, so that the original connotation is left untouched. Sorry about that.

GibbyGibson

 

[doesn't matter]

I definitely agree that becoming a Pokemon trainer is a "rite of passage" for kids in the Pokemon world, or at least it's a metaphor for a rite of passage in our world. Because we do know that not everyone has to become a Trainer, but to us it's pretty much everyone since there's no Pokemon game where you use Pokemon to help you run your bakery, haha. I'm not so sure I agree that girls were added as fanservice since their target audience is basically young boys (plus the first girl looked like this haha, not exactly fanservice material there), instead I would say that they put it in there to appeal more to girls to expand their market base, but I still agree that the game was created for boys and still is mainly for boys although it's less completely targeted on them nowadays.

I'm not so sure that you can call children on a Pokemon journey not 'grown up' though. I mean, if you think about it, they're doing more 'adult' things than I am right now. They're meeting new people pretty much every day, learning to cook for themselves, live on their own, and interact with society in general. They have sole responsibility for what they do, with the only real support system being the Pokemon Centers if they happen to end the day inside a town. They have to learn to allocate their resources (they have to be able to carry everything with them, but still have enough to make it to a new place and have emergency money left over) and apparently in their world deal with/control crime because the police system is crap and the trainers have to handle themselves haha. I would argue that the act of leaving grows them up and in the Pokemon world, that's the equivalent of a kid leaving the house for good in our world. So maybe it's the developer's wish that young children become men at 10 years old?

I would say that Misty was really the first girl (and what young heterosexual male doesn't like bike shorts? lol). I wasn't really just talking about the games, but the entire Pokemon series in general.

That's a very fair point, one that I shamefully overlooked. I was more considering the fact that their journey never really ends, that it just continues forever, so while they do develop, it never really goes anywhere. They've been stuck on this plateau for so long.

I would like to say that perhaps this is what "becoming a man" in the Pokemon world is about, but if it's meant to be a rite of passage, they're supposed to pass through it, right?

edit: wow, I should have refreshed the page

 

[Dave_]

Well in my primary school, 90% went through scouts, and i found it to be the same when i was in secondary shool with kids from other areas
This may be because Scouts originated in the UK though...
I went to World Scout Jamboree for scoutings 100th birthday where I spent a fortnight camping with 40,000+ scouts from around the world
Through the scouts I did volunteer work in north africa, mainly tunisia when I was 17
When I lived in Cyprus the local scout group seemed to do a lot for the community so they were known about which would imply popularity.

My presumption is that you're from teh US then..? Have you never gone to the Mall, Cinema, Bowling, Amusement park, arcade etc with friends? Even jsut hanging out in the local park everywher I have lived and stayed kids have had the freedom to go do these things with friends, obviously at 10 it would be somewhat supervised but as early as 12 people were getting buses in to the nearest town to hang out with friends and do whatever it is kids do nowadays

I worked in an animal shelter at 15, and most people I know either worked in a shop, delivering papers etc when they were young teens

Relating to my later point, they may only appear to have more responsibility, being that it may be through their eyes or a supervised freedom

You might jsut come from a more sheltered society, as everywhere I have been, generally, kids are let out to expereince things, obviously not going out battling with pokemon, although in my younger days with the system link it did happen .. haha

I did state the stated age , i.e. 10, was the target audience so i fail to see your point..

I didn't realised they stated his age after the start, or that it says it was a year since viridian etc.. my bad :3

I mean between cities rather than the cities themselveves, and actual trainers, Other than some of the obvious adults which are more elderly..?
How do we know the difference between say a 25+ (WHen you really can't pretend you're not an adult lol) and someone in their late teens?
Especially if we look back to the theory that its through the eyes of a child, if you're 10 years old, the "Big Kids" seem a lot bigger and older than they really are if that makes sense ..?

Same with The Evil teams, it could also be set up, in the whole 'dont take candy from strangers' sort of way although that wouldnt explain the backstory for say Jessie and James from Team rocket but they could still be late teens, For example the flashbacks for Jessie are to when she was a complete child other than the one that shows her at nurse school, which she dropped out of their is nothign in between perhaps implying she is of college age, which in some cultures, including Japan would mean you are still seen as a child.

Based on the first 3 series he did as far as i can remember..

Never seen the manga but.. They have to be linear, I dont mean in progressing difficulty because if they were gym leaders which allow you to challenge the elite 4 i'm pretty sure they would be at the same level as the elite 4 but town to town getting from a to b Pallet - viridian - Pewter - Cerulean - etc sure you could skip a gym and come back to it, Like they do with Viridian and Ash's 8th badge in the anime, but to get all 8 badges you would have to go thorugh every town in one order

Multi-quoting fealt like a hassle so I jsut spaced it..

Even when I was a kid watching the show, I kind of figured that the main premise, if you narrowed down the story so much that you take all elements out of it, would be the journey and leaving of the comfort of your own home to travel, learn, grow, and become an adult. But I never saw it as just being for males only.

And just like Toujours said, I con't think you can say the characters in the game / anime are just children. They've done more adult things then I have, even if they are just plot points to lead to an end goal for an enjoyable game / show. The fact that children are allowed to travel all over a specific land, learning about their surroundings, growing up and dealing with the elements, other trainers, hardships and adapting shows that their growing up pattern is different then ours truly are.



Like you said, that might be a Scotland thing. Here where I live, I've never seen someone use any sort of public transportation or allow their child to walk to school because of the 'horror' of what might happen to them. Most locations around here won't even allow children younger then 16 to work there, so unless they are working in a family business, that's sort of at the end of your time frame. The Education and Hobbies is about the only ones I can agree with. Those two (depending on the person) can really get you to start growing up and adapting depending on the situation you are in.



The first season (Sekiei / Indigo League) contained 82 episodes (including the banned ones). That's roughly 11.7 weeks. So if we take every episode released so far, 726 (not including specials and movies) you have 103.7 weeks, which equals to about 1.99 years. I can understand what you are saying, but mathematically it doesn't work. Satoshi / Ash is still 10, because that is the target audience for the show / game.



Yes, I can see the Pokémon Centers as being a place to go first, because if our world revolved around children as young as 10 traveling from place to place, battling with mystical monsters that we capture in mechanical balls, then I would be teaching my child when it's their turn about the importance of being someplace safe. It's just like in todays standards we teach our children if there is any problem to look for a police officer or call 911.

I always thought that when Satoshi called Dr. Yukinari Okido / Professor Oak, Okido was just telling Satoshi what he was told when he was on the phone with them previously. As is stated in the show, Satoshi is not very good at calling on a regular basis. Maybe the other trainers are?



I have to agree with you on most of this. But in the first season (USA), episode The School of Hard Knocks they mention levels quite a bit. I remember them saying something about Pikachu being around level 25 at the time. So while it's not a promonite aspect in the anime, it is somewhat still there. Maybe not as much now days, but it has been stated at least that once.

But this is really getting away from the focus of this post. Can you say that this traveling from place t place is a right of passage in order to grow up? I think it is. It's on par with todays standards of us having to 'graduate college, get a job, have a family' etc. like that. But not everyone's story is the same. The game's don't reflect this much with their limited nature, but the manga and anime show there are many paths there. You just have to pick the one that works best for you.

GibbyGibson

[EDIT: NOTE]
I just wanted to say that I'm sorry if this post may seem a little nit-picky. I've always been a fan of facts and I want to bring as much as I can when I post something. After a reread of this after posting, it seemed a little like I may be picking on some things said, and I just wanted to say that wasn't my intent. I did not edit any of the post with this edit beyond adding this, so that the original connotation is left untouched. Sorry about that.

GibbyGibson

You seem to have strayed, Although they are portrayed as ten year olds my original statement stands that I see them as more teenage-ish because at the end of the day being let out at ten years old is simply bad parenting and the only reason they are portrayed as ten year olds seems ot be purely for the viewing audience, but as far as i'm aware a comparitive to reality would remove a viewing audience, unless their is someone filming me as i type and somebody else watching me ...?

Which ties in to your second point, again although stated that they are 10 they seem more early teens and act accordingly although of course they will be even more mature seeming as it is written by adults and as far as i know voiced by adults

THe uk has an entire act outlining the legislation covering child workers, that sounds like slavery .. ha
No they have limits to the hours and wages etc, requirements for various things
POssibly due to a more liberal society or the fact that yours are more restrained or possibly jsut because you are genuinelly believing that these kids can be ten forever...