Suggestion: Posts in NU/W Don't Add to Postcount

[Fushigidane-Chan]

I've recently read the announcement in the New Users forum which prohibits generic welcome messages. It seems the major concern that resulted in this rule was that users will simply post in the forum to increase their postcounts.

The thing is, sometimes it may be hard to type a non-generic welcome message for each new member that posts in the forum. Many times, new members simply don't provide enough information to be able to do that. In addition, I'd imagine that this announcement essentially scares many of the members simply wanting to welcome a new member, out of the fear they may receive an infraction or warning if their message isn't non-generic enough.

I'd also like to add how my initial welcome thread made five years ago received a total of 22 posts. My new one, made a month ago, received only 5. I think new users would feel much more welcome if many more new users welcomed them, which I think would happen if this new rule was abolished.

I think an alternative solution would be simply to not allow posts made in the forum to add to your postcount. So those who only care about their postcounts, for whatever reason, would leave the forum alone, whereas those who simply want to welcome new members would be allowed to even if their messages are a little generic.

I hope you consider this alternative, and I apologize if this suggestion has been made before and turned down. Thank you for your time, members and moderators. :]

 

[Nick]

I wouldn't have any objections to that.

 

[Fushigidane-Chan]

What new rule? The Generic posting rule? I highly doubt that's gonna happen. Would you truly be satisfied with a bunch of "welcome to PC!" messages and nothing else? Are you serious? The new rule is actually helping, not hurting, because users are forced to actually post greetings that are actually greetings and not generic crap for postcount or because they don't really have anything else to do.

I don't mind generic "welcome to PC!" messages, considering I'll get those than none at all. Again, there just doesn't seem to be a large amount of people who welcome new members, and it not only gives off a bad first impression of the forum, but makes new members feel lonely. I certainly didn't feel that welcome when only three people bothered to welcome me. The rule is taking a toll more on new members than the welcomers. I feel that should change.

You have to keep in mind that you're not obligated to welcome anyone. It's just something members do out of the good of their hearts to welcome new members into PC. If you really cared about the new members, you wouldn't be so concerned about the rule. Why don't you introduce the positive aspects of PC? Some of the forum sections that might be pleasing to the new users? Tell them to read the rules before they post in certain sections? Advice? There are so many things to include in a welcome post that there is little to no excuse for having generic messages. |: People need to stop being lazy(lol me being the hypocritical lazy person but still).

Some people want to welcome new members, but don't have the time to bother writing a different message for each new member. Besides, if you write a very helpful welcome message, linking to the rules, recommending forums and all that jazz, but you post the same message to every new member... Isn't that also generic posting? Most people don't have the time, and more likey, just don't want to bother. And I don't blame them.

Going back on the postcount issue, I'd only see it helping slightly(theoretically, that is). But I want to ask something that would hopefully be considered: Would it really be effective in the long run? I imagine that even if the postcount was abolished in NU/W, people still wouldn't know what to say when welcoming the new users, which would still result in a "generic" message. So I don't think it's so much postcount as it is trying to establish a greeting that it's an issue, or some users being plain lazy.

While abolishing this rule may lower the amount of non-generic ones, I feel that it'd be worth it just to have many more people welcome new members. The fact users try to raise their postcounts through this method seems to be the biggest concern among the moderators. With this alternative, the same goal will remain.

 

[Spinor]

I feel like we should do the only intelligent thing Pokemonopolis does.

Make just one thread for welcoming members, move it in here, and get rid of the forum.

 

[o0PinkSquid0o]

I like the idea of stopping post count but letting people still welcome newbies. I don't see the issue, either way you're pretty much getting the same outcome. Getting an infraction for saying "Hey! Welcome to PC, Have fun" because its generic is kinda on the ridiculous side!

 

[o0PinkSquid0o]

Why else would you greet if it wasn't for the sake of greeting then?

Greeting for the sake of greeting still makes a user feel welcome.

I'm just saying, I really think its going overboard on the rules...like a nanny forum.

here, take a warning for saying welcome.

 

[Hiidoran]

First of all, I wanna thank you for actually bringing up a very valid point, and I myself have noticed a decrease in the number of responses NU/W has been getting. Always good to hear some feedback - that's how we grow. However, it started decreasing before I implemented the rule, and if you go back just a bit... you'll realize NU/W decreased in its "frequent" members due to heavier moderation, because frankly, it was a bit spammy before Beachboy did a rehaul of the board about two years ago.

Now, you mentioned that you yourself would rather see a good number of "Welcome to the PokéCommunity!" than a few quality welcomes. In stark contrast, however, I've been approached by many members who demanded an answer as to why I would allow such blatant spamming to occur, and that they were actually offended to see that members would post the same messages over and over in every thread. So, it kinda works both ways.

Just to note, I have never given an infraction to this point for generic responses, that would be very harsh, and we don't even have a set infraction for it - I don't feel we need one. If I see members who are blatantly, and I mean you could see it from space now, welcoming members with absolutely no enthusiasm, the post simply gets deleted. I tried to convey that in the annoucement. I'm not going to be a robot on this. We have human moderators for a reason, after all. I evaluate each post, and yes, I have read every single one. Copy and paste welcomes have been punished before, but members should know better.

As for disabling post count in NU/W, you're right, it has been suggested before. I have actually given a lot of thought about this very same thing numerous times, and if ever I felt it would fit for NU/W, I would bring it up to the H-staff behind closed doors in a heart beat. You do, however, deserve an explanation as to why I feel this way, and here's what, in a nut shell, my response was last time:

I've actually thought about this before, but not for too long. Here's why:

Good, or even decent welcomes actually take a fair amount of time to think out and type up. I've seen many members frequent NU/W over the years that I've been active there, and the good welcomers always have unique and substantial posts. If they go through all that trouble of welcoming new members, giving them good advice, and doing it in a unique way each and every time... I say the least we can do is give them a +1 to their overall post count.

You're right, there are a few people out there that take advantage of the board to increase their post count, but rest assured Drew and I take care of that every day. Since I started modding I don't think there's been a day that I haven't deleted some post for either being insubstantial or being a copy and paste reply. Trust me, they don't go unnoticed, and they don't go unpunished.

There are a good few that like to get away on technicalities - changing up their welcomes just enough to get by... but they're few and far between. Besides, if it's obvious they're just welcoming for the sake of spam, we'll take care of it eventually.

Just thought I'd throw my two cents out there.

 

[mishy.]

I myself would rather get quality posts, than a whole bunch of 'welcome to PC!'. Ive had them on other forums, and let's just say that I haven't been to them in a while. PC, on the other hand, gave me quality welcome posts when I first joined, and although I did take a few months of a break, look where I am today.

Pretty much just quoting with what I said not too long ago somewhere. To me a 'Generic' Welcome isn't really much of a welcome. Now, if they welcomed you, and then add a little tadbit to it "Welcome to the Forums! Oh? You like _____ as well! Awesome!" or in my case when I joined: "Welcome to the Forums! It looks like you already read the rules, that's awesome!" then one can feel much more comfortable with being where they are as a new member.

/is just extending with that Twilight Sky, she realizes, but just think about it a tad.

Oh.. and ahaha... Larry beat me. But Personal Experience with Actual Welcomes > Generic ones for the win?

 

[Ayselipera]

Well as an active poster in NU/W I find it's not hard at all to put a little effort into a welcome thread. If anything I think the rule has helped a lot. More members are taking the time to go the extra mile and write out a kind and helpful welcome. I feel like if you took away the post count a lot of members would just resort back to one liner posts.

I do also have another thought that contradicts my first. That being that taking away the post count will then truly open up NU/W to members who post there because they actually enjoy welcoming others. Although seeing as how most threads there get about five to six posts at most I also feel like then maybe even less members will post due to the loss of post count.

So for me I really can't pinpoint what would happen exactly. It's hard to say since NU/W isn't exactly comparable to the other sections here where post count doesn't count.

 

[Spinor]

Aka the New Users Hangout Thread has just gained an extra 50 pounds. Not only that, new users have a 90% chance of being completely unnoticed.

That thread is simple questions and discussion with new people. Obliterate welcome threads and just have users post their hello's and welcome's inside one thread. Whether those go on a separate thread or united with the hangout doesn't matter. And I'm sorry Hiidoran, I respect you as a moderator really but I feel that one little place for discussion for the new members would be sufficient.

Of course some may argue that because of this Board's increasing popularity that we should keep separate welcome threads for each member. Actually, the opposite should be true because there arent many dedicated people to welcome each and every one. This causes many members to feel diswelcome and obviously the count for active members will plummet. One single thread makes things easier for the welcomers and promotes social interactions that multiple threads wont cause. In the end more people are encouraged to actually stay members of PC.

 

[Hiidoran]

And I'm sorry Hiidoran, I respect you as a moderator really but I feel that one little place for discussion for the new members would be sufficient.

Aww... thanks. :D Kinda wonder what would be my fate in a situation like that... guess I'd just go help moderate whatever board it got moved to... or get fired. BD

Buuuut, I do have to disagree with you. I see you mentioned Pokemonopolis, but no other Pokémon boards. That probably works for them because they only have 376 registered members (yes, I checked 'em out to see how they ran said thread. XD Unless I'm lookin' at the wrong place~). The other big boys in the Pokémon world all have some sort of board solely dedicated to new members, and if nothing else, it's to give new members some initial limelight - and I believe they deserve that.

In a singular thread, your post is likely to get missed amongst a flood of simple questions (what the hangout is known for), to be honest. Members enjoy replying to more interesting introductions, and most of 'em aren't gonna take the time to hit that multi-reply button. If I were to believe they were so inclined to be that helpful... why wouldn't they already be posting in NU/W as it is? Even though NU/W is kinda slowing down a bit, I'd say it's just a bit too early to condense an entire board to a simple thread. Perhaps, if it drastically plunges to deep inactivity, it could be made into a sub-board. I'd say that day is still too far off, however.

 

[Melody]

Now I happen to agree with the sentiments of the OP...I've even confronted the mods of NU/W privately about this matter some time ago when I noticed the rule was put into place. They reassured me that this was not being over-enforced to my satisfaction, something most staff members would never bother to do otherwise, so I've got reason enough to believe their word.

Still, I do feel that unless the greeting is oh-so-obviously a cookie-cutter greeting that it shouldn't be infracted...a deletion or warning is usually fair game though...and infractions for repeatedly using cookie-cutter greetings is well within their rights.

Personally, as an established member, I DO indeed choose not to bother with greeting new members because of the new rule. I disagree with it on principal really...but there's a fair chance that there's not really a whole lot I can do about it. So unless I really feel like writing something substantial, I simply do ignore NU/W. Now, for the record, let it be known that I couldn't give two figs about my post count, I've been here 6 years now and my post count has not broken 5k. xD

Irregardless of all of that, I think that crowd that gets upset at these 'cookie-cutter' greetings needs to be addressed first, and since mods give no names when they get feedback about their section...good luck. If you want the mods to change it back, you gotta organize people to inundate the NU/W mods with requests to change it back...and even then it's not sure to be successful if they sympathize with the people who think our noobs are "too good for just a simple 'Hi'" :/

 

[Miss Doronjo]

I can honestly agree to this rule; and like said above (somewhere) a person who would really care about welcoming new members shouldn't worry about post count. Post Count is kind of a trifling matter anyhow.

I feel its important to properly welcome the new members first of all, because they are likely to be "tomorrows" veterans in this forum; so I guess it'll give them a sense on how we are per se.

As for the generic stuff: I'd think, that actually makes your effort to welcome someone feel far too 'mechanical', and rather defeats the purpose of trying to make them feel special in joining us here. A more personal greeting will make them feel even more welcome, and remember, that's the whole point, to greet everyone and help them to feel a part of the wonderful PokeCommunity here that we all love so much~

I find that this way; a non-genetic welcome, its much easier for new members to get new friends here too, and have a more resolve to visit these forums more often.
And hey--if new members took the time to come here and post an intro, should one take the time post a proper intro too?

However, I also agree that it may be hard to comment on a new user's interests or something so you'd be repeating what you'd say like "welcome to the forums! Enjoy your stay!"
It can happen if there isn't any good insight the new users interests and all that.

...Perhaps I'm probably just basically repeating what someone said here earlier here, or maybe this is too hypocritical for me to say since I've barley welcome people from the new users hangout (but I'm trying my best; it gets so much new users everyday and night. D= its just my thoughts too anyway.

 

[Nick]

Larry asked me to explain why I would approve of this, so that's what I'm going to do in this post.

Before I was on staff, one of the forums I frequented the most was the introductions forum. I spent a good amount of my time welcoming new members for my early life at PC, because I knew how much it was important to their decision to continue being part of the community. New members should feel as welcome as everyone else, or even more so, so they feel comfortable and continue to come here. We want people to continue to come here to help our community grow. We don't want members to post their introduction and never show up on this forum again because a lack of replies. The reason I stopped welcoming members was because I was putting more effort in welcoming them than them introducing themselves. I stalked their profile to see what they liked, if they posted in other forums since their introduction, I mentioned that, I included some generic things here and there as well, of course, and all that jazz. The quality of introductions were declining a great deal, and I lost interest. Stepping there now there are a few good introductions in the sea of terrible, non-helpful ones, but for the most part they are flooded completely. That's what it was like a few years ago, and has always been for the most part. I'd also like to point out that the amount of people who actually stay after they post a welcome is very low - and it essentially makes your welcome, no matter how great it was, irrelevant. Most people I welcomed I never saw again.

I agree o0PinkSquid0o in her statement of getting an infraction for welcoming someone to the community is generic. I can't say I ever supported that, but I do know why it was decided to implement. Welcoming for the case of welcoming is why most people post. It's why I posted. I wanted to welcome members. Sure my post didn't at all fall in the low-quality range of replies, but I still welcomed for the sake of welcoming, so Derk, I really don't understand the logic in that argument.

I wouldn't at all object to this, like I said earlier. The quality of introduction threads themselves are very, very low as a whole, so it's very difficult to reply back to them without a generic welcome message since they created a generic introduction. "Hi, I'm new! I like Pokémon and am glad to be here." Well that's helpful! I can honestly understand a good majority of the reason behind generic welcomes. Only a handful of members actually truly care about helping a members and to me, that's not enough to warrant a forum - and I don't know about you guys, but the less replies to me when I create an introduction thread often end up with me feeling depressed and generally unwelcome to begin with. I don't see how someone would rather get three quality welcomes than a mass amount of generic messages. Those three quality welcomes are still going to be there if they really care about welcoming members. At least those generic posts are welcomes. Sure they won't impact you a great deal, but they won't make you feel ignored. But the ratio of generic messages to well thought out ones come out with the outcome of the generic messages being a larger number tenfold. AdvancedK47 does have a point when he says that you might as well have a thread just right there with how it is now. Three members are usually the amount of members who contribute to the thread to begin with, which isn't enough, in my opinion, no matter how well thought out their welcome is.

The state of the forum should reflect the members who frequent the forum without pushing away or discouraging them from contributing, no matter how small or insignificant the welcome is in the grand scheme of quality welcomes. This is what has already been done, though I do understand why it was decided, because the low quality introductions and replies was the reason for me leaving the forum. And like Miss Doronjo said, if you really care about welcoming a member, you wouldn't care about the +1 post count that comes with it. If you're that concerned, have a quick stop at the DCC in Other Chat to fill in that mind-numbing void.

To make up for this, I feel that the idea of the buddy system should be brought back up for discussion. Disabling post count and adding a buddy system will really make sure that we really do care about the community and bring back the community aspect of our forum name to New Users. I also feel like users who don't create the thread should be allowed more than one reply to the thread, since new users often ask questions in their threads if they have one. Even though that's one of the many purposes of the hangout thread, but it would feel a little more special, direct, and comfortable if it was in their own thread rather than a large one with other people asking questions.

I guess that's all I have to say about it.

 

[Platinum Lucario]

OK, well I know for a fact that about 2 years ago, I was slammed with an infraction for genetric posting when I wasn't exactly copy and pasting them, but rather for typing up near exact welcomes, but all of that is now history. Nowadays I tend to avoid posting in the NU/W section to avoid getting slammed with another infraction, because I sure did learn my lession at that time.

However, my main consern nowadays is about the other users that would normally post in the NU/W, like their posts don't exactly have to perfect, do they? Well I know that alot of people that do want to get a high post count or even spam to get 15 posts, they can attempt to copy and paste their welcomes to get 15 posts or more (mostly with new users that have joined and cannot use the extra features used when you normally get 15 posts).

I do believe that disabling people from gaining their post count in the NU/W section will indeed bring an end to many people who want to copy and paste their welcomes to get up to 15 posts. Because the NU/W forum is for "welcoming people, not for raising your post count", like it says in the rules on that forum. And I'm sure disabling the post count on that forum sure would save the trouble of the Moderators having to deleting many copy and pasted posts.

And to be honest, I really don't care about my post count, just like most of us don't. But I certainly DO agree with the idea of disabling the post count in the NU/W.

 

[Circuit]

To be honest, I couldn't care less about the rule, because if I did post in NU/W, I would make sure all my posts were unique to each member. Not just another different welcome. As said earlier, you want to greet for the sake of the person, not just greeting. AND I couldn't care less about my post count. I've been here around three and a half years, and I've just reached 2K. I would like to become more regular however, but has nothing to do with my post coount. Back to the point. I think that if people are so worried about their post count to post generic welcomes, they are just vain idiots, and not really very considerate, are they now? That's what I say.

 

[Taemin]

I have to head out the door in like five minutes, but before I do want to say this real quick:

When I join other forums, I'm always more happy to receive a few quality welcomes than I'am to recieve a bunch of "welcome to ___! :)". With generic welcomes, it takes you all of five seconds to look over them, and you don't feel too welcomed at all. All it feels like, is that people took two seconds of their day to type four words to you, and will never talk to you again, nor bother to level / bond with you.

I dunno about other people, but if I went into NU/W and started making four / five words posts in all the threads, just to get a post in there.. I'd feel guilty. And not just because I used to mod that area, it's just because I feel like.. if I don't put any effort into a post - no matter what area it's in, then I shouldn't post at all. Each member that creates an intro thread is a person, who's thankful when some of us take the time to make them feel more welcome than just to give them five words n' then just leave. >_>

/IMO

 

[o0PinkSquid0o]

I have to head out the door in like five minutes, but before I do want to say this real quick:

When I join other forums, I'm always more happy to receive a few quality welcomes than I'am to recieve a bunch of "welcome to ___! :)". With generic welcomes, it takes you all of five seconds to look over them, and you don't feel too welcomed at all. All it feels like, is that people took two seconds of their day to type four words to you, and will never talk to you again, nor bother to level / bond with you.

I dunno about other people, but if I went into NU/W and started making four / five words posts in all the threads, just to get a post in there.. I'd feel guilty. And not just because I used to mod that area, it's just because I feel like.. if I don't put any effort into a post - no matter what area it's in, then I shouldn't post at all. Each member that creates an intro thread is a person, who's thankful when some of us take the time to make them feel more welcome than just to give them five words n' then just leave. >_>

/IMO

I didn't get many welcomes in my thread but I didn't really feel that way at the generic welcomes. I just kinda thought, thanks for taking the time, even if it was a small amount to come and have a look in my thread :)

Sometimes I'll go into the new user forum because i feel like welcoming, I'll notice someone with like 0 - 5 replies and decide to welcome them as not many other people have yet... then I get in there and see their welcome note doesn't say much so I'll just say "hey, welcome to blah, hope you enjoy it here!" I mean srsly what else could you write? At least you then become a farmiliar face to them as they browse the forums :)

 

[Kristoph]

Pfft I was going to bed when I found out this thread and I felt the need to reply.

I don't see how removing the postcount would help people post more there. People who just spam "hellos" to get postcount aren't going to go back to that forum if that option isn't available anymore, new members are going to lose a quick and easy way to get some free posts to begin their PC experience (and you can't post links, images or smilies until you have 15 posts, keep that in mind), and people who actually care about new people and want to welcome them out of the goodness of their hearts won't feel any difference- unless they just want to say "Hello, welcome to PC, have fun", which... really sounds to me like the first category I mentioned.

Putting a special singular touch in your welcome post for every individual new member isn't that hard, and that will be enough for you to avoid an infraction. Larry isn't strict at all, and he's not going to infract unless he's forced to by constant copy-and-pasted replies.

 

[KanadeTenshi]

People who post there come to heartwarmingly welcome members already. I'd quote a common saying: "A big post count doesn't added meters to the thing between your legs", or enlarge your chest or whatever. If you didn't get it post count doesn't really matter.
I don't really care if this thing does come though. The only thing it'll do is reveal post count farmers, heh.

I disagree with making that rule go, it'll make more noncounted posts "Oh hai" > never meet again.