Question about the Pokédex

[~Sloth~]

I saw the episode with Westwood the other day and something made me think. Westwood said something along the lines of him programming a Pokédex entry (Slowpoke's I believe). But wait... if the entries are pre-programmed (as they must be, considering that most of the entries in the video games are vague descriptions that certainly couldn't be generated by the dex itself), what's with the dex quest? Wouldn't the Professors already know the information if they themselves programmed the info into the dex? As I said, the info supplied by the dex sounds like a commentary by a human observer, rather than solid scientific data of the kind that it's assumed that the dex gathers upon capture. It makes no sense then that the Professors ask you to gather info on Pokémon when someone clearly already has that information. Obviously the dex could analyze height, weight, type, or even footprint, but how can it determine the information provided in the descriptions? Those were clearly programmed by people, not automatically generated as the Professors would have us believe.

 

[Vernikova]

It seems kind of pointless trying to understand the francise's logic. I suggest you just enjoy it.

 

[JX Valentine]

The way I interpreted his comment that he helped in creating the Pokedex is actually more along the lines of he programmed the entries into the 'dex, not that he programmed the 'dex itself to generate descriptions based on solid data. Given Westwood's own reputation as one egg short of a full dozen, any colorful descriptions the 'dex may give are probably based on observations in his own voice.

As for the 'dex quest itself, remember that game continuum =/= anime continuum. For example, in the game, the 'dex was essentially a small computer created by Professor Oak (and not Westwood, who doesn't even exist in the game), but the entries hadn't been inserted into the 'dex itself, hence his need for trainers to go out and record their own observations. (I really don't know how, for example, a trainer would be able to determine behavior of an entire species -- like how every Sneasel drives Pidgey out of their nests, but I'm guessing a lot more time passes in the game than we think it does anyway. After all, you can travel an entire region in less than a day, so time isn't on a realistic scale here. It could be plausible to say that if it was on a realistic scale, the trainer could spend more time in the field than just the five minutes it takes to catch a new Pokemon. Alternatively, the entries could be a mix of Oak's own data received wirelessly through the 'dex and the trainer's observations made directly on the field.) Meanwhile, the 'dex quest doesn't exist in the anime's continuum (with Ash's only goal seemingly to be becoming the champion of X League), so the entries there could possibly be only from Westwood, his assistants, and his colleagues, made prior to Ash receiving his own 'dex, if that makes sense.

In other words, first, we'll have to separate canon here. In the anime, it's probably Westwood and his assistants (who are never seen but are mentioned in the episode) who inserted the information into the 'dex. In the game, it's the trainers and possibly Oak himself. It's not really automatic, I think, and it's not entirely finished, either (just like any other encyclopedia). Likewise, it probably only provides very basic information that a trainer would need to know (given that, in one continuum, it is partly written by the trainer), not detailed scientific information that a researcher may be working on. It is, basically, like any encyclopedia: a useful tool but neither complete nor something an expert in the field would rely solely on.

 

[Azonic]

To contradict what Xanthine wrote, I will note that the episode with Professor Westwood does not continue with the canon of the series. To add onto that, it was noted in the movie Pokemon 4ever that Professor Oak travels into the future as a small child and meets Ash, who gives him the bright and brilliant idea to create this device of PokeDex.

Also, it would be highly unlikely for the trainers to record their own observations and put them into a PokeDex because of the voice alterations. Note, that some PokeDexes contain a feminine voice, which slightly hints to the fact that the PokeDex was created by more than one person. Trainers could also not record their observations because some entries relate to the history or its wilderness actions. For example, how would the trainer know that Taillow eats Wurmple, or how would they know a Pokemon's part in a legend. For all they know, they could just assume that Phione is just a regular Pokemon, just like Pikachu. Also, there have been books that have made their appearance in the anime, which shows that information certainly was indeed pre-recorded before the invention of the PokeDex. For example, Brock's books are a nice example as well as James's TCG cards that make recurring appearances in the anime. Still, there is no possible way for the PokeDex to just send out information like that while scanning it. People must have previously programmed information there, or the information in the PokeDex wouldn't be there in the first place.

There's little logic in the Pokemon world. I guess this is just one of many flaws in the franchise series. Besides, a trainer wouldn't just stare at a Pokemon and observe its actions all day, now would he? Eh, just another flaw.

 

[JX Valentine]

To contradict what Xanthine wrote, I will note that the episode with Professor Westwood does not continue with the canon of the series.

This is true, and to add, it should be noted that very little of the anime is continuous with itself. (The little white button for transferring Pokemon, anyone?) However, the original post concerned the part of the anime that insisted it was Westwood who oversaw the creation of the 'dex (if he isn't the sole mastermind behind it), and while Professor Oak could have been the designer, it's generally accepted that Westwood had a hand in the writing of its contents. It could be interpreted that the two worked together eventually, especially given the fact that Oak turns to Westwood in that particular episode for information on Slowbro.

Also, it would be highly unlikely for the trainers to record their own observations and put them into a PokeDex because of the voice alterations.

First off, I'm assuming this is my point about game continuity that you're arguing against (because the only time I mentioned trainers recording information was in regards to game canon), which doesn't use voices for its informational feed. Instead, it seems to use a text-based interface, which means the voice changes are a moot point.

Note, that some PokeDexes contain a feminine voice, which slightly hints to the fact that the PokeDex was created by more than one person.

Also note that every voice used by the Pokedex is actually a computerized voice. There are programs that read off inputed data with a single voice, using similar inflections. For example, if you're using Windows XP, try this:

- Control Panel
- Speech
- Preview Voice

Although the voice sounds slightly more garbled than the Pokedex, also remember that the Pokemon world seems a bit more refined in terms of technology, so it could be that they've also managed to create a more understandable voice for the 'dex as well.

Trainers could also not record their observations because some entries relate to the history or its wilderness actions.

As I've noted before, it's possible that some data comes from Professor Oak himself, sent to the trainer and added to observations.

However...

For example, how would the trainer know that Taillow eats Wurmple,

Field observations. Taillow and Wurmple live in relatively the same areas (e.g., Petalburg Woods and Route 104), so spending an amount of time watching Taillow can allow them to observe hunting habits.

or how would they know a Pokemon's part in a legend.

Regional folklore. These are, after all, usually people who have lived in the region for awhile or can listen to what other people have to say about local legends. Legendary Pokemon tend to be seen as religious aspects (a la Greek gods) in the Pokemon world, if they're not simply figures of old folktales (a la Paul Bunyan).

Also, there have been books that have made their appearance in the anime, which shows that information certainly was indeed pre-recorded before the invention of the PokeDex.

Again, it's not known how much information on every Pokemon is included in books, and even then, those could be parts of a trainer's prior knowledge, which would then be added to his own observations.

For example, Brock's books are a nice example as well as James's TCG cards that make recurring appearances in the anime.

Again, not part of the same continuum as what you're arguing against here.

As I've said before, please don't mix up anime and game continuum. They're really not compatible in some aspects, such as here, where you're providing anime examples when the Pokedex is essentially complete by the time Ash receives it. As in, yes, a researcher (or a number of them) have actually gone out and completed the anime's version of the 'dex prior to Ash receiving it. However, in the games, this isn't so. The 'dex is an incomplete device; the inserted data appears to be taken by the trainer or at least recorded and possibly relayed through the Pokedex. It's not entirely clear, but the 'dex definitely isn't in the same stages of completion as the anime's version. (Not to mention it doesn't function the same way as the anime's, apparently, as I've noted above concerning voices.)

Besides, a trainer wouldn't just stare at a Pokemon and observe its actions all day, now would he?

Depends on the trainer. Given that this is the basis of a trainer's quest in at least the first and second generations of games -- where the trainers are explicitly asked by a professor to go out and complete the 'dex -- I'd say yes, they could, if they're particularly patient. I would, at least, if I happened to be asked.

 

[Azonic]

Fielding observations may be so, but then, how would you explain Pokemon received in a trade, or starter Pokemon? As far as I'm concerned, the PokeDex isn't linked to another person's PokeDex when they're trading, so it's impossible to share information through trade. This roughly states that when a Pokemon is traded, the PokeDex won't record information about the traded Pokemon... but it still does? I'd also like to point out that a Pokemon nature would effect the description of the PokeDex entry, wouldn't it? Especially when you're looking at a very energetic Pokemon, and it's possible for them to have a very relaxed nature or something. Take a look at Vigoroth; wouldn't a Calm Natured Vigoroth affect the trainer's PokeDex entry? It would alter it a lot, because all of the entries say that Vigoroth is mad crazy and itching to go on a rampage, or something along those lines. And yet, all PokeDex entries from the same game are exactly the same.

Anyways, I completely take the statement about the PokeDex voice alterations back. I actually remember listening to a weather station, Noah or something, and it was a computerized voice. The voice that it was using was mostly thorough in it's English, but hey the PokeDex doesn't even speak very thoroughly at times, so yeah.

And as for the unique / legendary Pokemon factor goes, take a look at Rotom. There has been some history about it, obviously, and it hasn't been noted as a religious Pokemon object, or even a legendary Pokemon. "It is known to infiltrate electronic devices and wreak havoc."

...and one last thing. Where in the world do they get species from?

 

[JX Valentine]

Fielding observations may be so, but then, how would you explain Pokemon received in a trade, or starter Pokemon?

*shrug* Communications between trainers concerning traded Pokemon (which also explains how it's possible to obtain 'dex entries in foreign languages as of DP), and in terms of starters, the researcher could have simply programmed that entry as a "starting" entry.

I'd also like to point out that a Pokemon nature would effect the description of the PokeDex entry, wouldn't it?

Not necessarily. Certain behaviors could be taken as generalizations or simply basics. For example, going back to the point about Taillow, that's pretty much a basic right there.

Especially when you're looking at a very energetic Pokemon, and it's possible for them to have a very relaxed nature or something. Take a look at Vigoroth; wouldn't a Calm Natured Vigoroth affect the trainer's PokeDex entry?

Note: Vigoroth's only special ability is Vital Spirit, implying that every Vigoroth is essentially constantly agitated. While nature indicates individuality among Pokemon, it still should be taken as relative in terms of the Pokemon species. For another example, a Rash Slakoth will still probably be slow to us, even though the rash nature implies that the individual would be more energetic than other members of its species.

There has been some history about it, obviously, and it hasn't been noted as a religious Pokemon object, or even a legendary Pokemon. "It is known to infiltrate electronic devices and wreak havoc."

Given how you find Rotom and the fact that, yes, it obviously does infiltrate electronic devices and essentially wreak havoc by not only causing the television set to malfunction but also popping out of it at unsuspecting trainers, I'd say this is a very easy conclusion to come to. Then, of course, you've got Platinum, in which Rotom seems to be very fond of possessing various appliances.

...and one last thing. Where in the world do they get species from?

This goes into the argument of whether or not real world animals exist in the Pokemon world, which never dies as soon as it's brought up and is something I'd rather not address, personally.

 

[Azonic]

*shrug* Communications between trainers concerning traded Pokemon (which also explains how it's possible to obtain 'dex entries in foreign languages as of DP), and in terms of starters, the researcher could have simply programmed that entry as a "starting" entry.

Quite awkward how the Professor does possess three Pokemon at first, but when you first get the PokeDex only one Pokemon's data is in there. The other two starters remain to be seen. I mean, if you send someone on a goal to fill their PokeDex you might as well just give him all the data you have, wouldn't you? Awkward, but I guess that was just programmed in there for the game flow. Just something that's not necessarily logical was programmed in there for the sake of the storyline, right?

Given how you find Rotom and the fact that, yes, it obviously does infiltrate electronic devices and essentially wreak havoc by not only causing the television set to malfunction but also popping out of it at unsuspecting trainers, I'd say this is a very easy conclusion to come to. Then, of course, you've got Platinum, in which Rotom seems to be very fond of possessing various appliances.

How would one exactly find out that it would be known to have a certain quality? The only thing that Rotom has done in front of the trainer is pop out of a TV and battle the trainer. I haven't heard any tale that would give us such information, and if this trait was already known from previous knowledge, the trainer could have written it down in his PokeDex already, regardless of capturing or not.

This goes into the argument of whether or not real world animals exist in the Pokemon world, which never dies as soon as it's brought up and is something I'd rather not address, personally.

I did happen to spot a fish tank with real fish in the background of one of the early Cerulean City episodes, but lets not go into that. XD

 

[GleamingLens]

lol this is funny
like read tentacruel's descirption i think it says its a gangstar or something.