Red/Blue remakes on 3DS

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

my memory of FRLG must be fuzzy because i don't remember that. regardless, i do expect expansion, just not "CHANGES". that is the major difference between HGSS and ORAS.


I believe a battle with Gold can work if they compile a Gold/Silver re-remake.

Most of them were at the Sevii islands, usually against the twins.

It seems GF shook off their more conservative take on remakes (in HGSS they tried to balance changes and keeping it the same while FRLG were their most conservative remakes.) with ORAS...wonder why though seeing how HGSS was successful (or maybe the slightly more different HGSS (compared to GS) selling better than FRLG made them think more changes were good). If ORAS becomes more successful though sales wise than HGSS they may opt for more changes with Sinnoh and other future remakes. Or perhaps ORAS was just an experiment on a more drastic shift from past remakes and will go back to HGSS style or somewhere in between HGSS and ORAS style, especially with some of the complaints they've heard about ORAS (perhaps HGSS was less of a port due to the complaints of FRLG being too similar to RGB?)

Maybe...if they do two games in one (or use the memory link and have time pass in the Kanto re-remake...or have Red time travel...Celebi anyone?)

 

[Mago Luis]

Well, the first four Generations dealt with this by simply establishing the Third Version as canon--Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum. The Third Versions usually combined elements from the paired games and worked out the discrepancies, thus creating a solid, singular canon to go from.

But then we get the problem you mentioned of invalidating some story variations and alienating players, which is what I wanted to address with my last post. If changing a past hero's gender is an issue because some people may have played as the other, changing the story's events should also be, because some people may only have played one version.

It was the remakes and Unova games that threw a monkey wrench into this system, as they lacked Third Versions. The Unova games dealt with this, somewhat, by acknowledging the existence of parallel universes and having the Memory Link feature in the sequels (which prevented one PC from being favored over another).

But with features like these, continuity can be handled with parallel universes or timelines, and it doesn't have to be a nightmare and nobody has to get left out.

From Cyhtia's dialogue in BW, Platinum happens both in the timeline with Black and Black 2, and in the timeline with White and White 2. And not only do the events of Platinum happen in both timelines, the Trainer could also have been either gender, and the Trainer could have caught Giratina, or defeated it, or calmed it by not fighting it, and every combination of those possibilities is valid in the Gen V games.

So we have Platinum, Black, White, and their sequels, happening over two timelines, whose heroes' identities (and in Platinum's case, some of their actions) we can interpret however we like.

Admittedly, this bit does leave out people who played Diamond and/or Pearl but not Platinum, but again, that happens because of the existence of different versions rather than the existence of different timelines. Though Giratina is present in Diamond and Pearl, so one could still try fitting them in even if it isn't the main Pokémon.

 

[BettyNewbie]

But then we get the problem you mentioned of invalidating some story variations and alienating players, which is what I wanted to address with my last post. If changing a past hero's gender is an issue because some people may have played as the other, changing the story's events should also be, because some people may only have played one version.

Well, the Third Versions usually addressed that by combining elements from the paired games (along with adding a new element to their story), so they would still be recognizable to those who only played the paired games.

For example, the only inconsistency in Red and Blue outside of Wild Pokemon (which I don't count for story purposes) is Starter selection--You can only pick one, so you run the risk of canonizing certain Starters over others. Yellow solves this dilemma by having you start with Pikachu and giving you all three Kanto Starters later on, so thus, in GSC, Red can have a team that's 100% neutral and includes every starter while still making sense in canon.

Similarly, the biggest inconsistency in Gold and Silver is whether or not you fight Ho-Oh or Lugia first. Crystal solves this by having both of the birds be L70 postgame catches and giving more focus to Suicune, instead.

Same goes for Ruby and Sapphire. Which story is canon, the one with Team Magma and Groudon or Team Aqua and Kyogre? Emerald neatly answers that question by combining both stories into one and allowing you to catch all three members of the Weather Trio.

Rinse and repeat for Diamond and Pearl. Platinum makes it so you don't have to choose between Dialga and Palkia.

TV Tropes has a name for this: Third Option Adaptation.

From Cyhtia's dialogue in BW, Platinum happens both in the timeline with Black and Black 2, and in the timeline with White and White 2. And not only do the events of Platinum happen in both timelines, the Trainer could also have been either gender, and the Trainer could have caught Giratina, or defeated it, or calmed it by not fighting it, and every combination of those possibilities is valid in the Gen V games.

So we have Platinum, Black, White, and their sequels, happening over two timelines, whose heroes' identities (and in Platinum's case, some of their actions) we can interpret however we like.

Admittedly, this bit does leave out people who played Diamond and/or Pearl but not Platinum, but again, that happens because of the existence of different versions rather than the existence of different timelines. Though Giratina is present in Diamond and Pearl, so one could still try fitting them in even if it isn't the main Pokémon.

As I said, I think the Gen 5 games actually acknowledge the existence of parallel universes, so they handle this issue far better than the other games that lack Third Versions. Memory Link (or a similar feature) is something that I wouldn't mind seeing return in future games.

 

[RandomDSdevel]

So how do you guys think using a feature like Memory Link would impact how users play through sequels? I assume that your player character from the ΩR/αS timeline's counterparts to G/S/C/HG/SS would face off against your player character from the ΩR/αS timeline's counterparts to R/G/B/Y/FR/LG once the former reached Mt. Silver, but what else could happen if events in one game depended on how you played through one of its prequels?

 

[CloverCamerupt]

If they do end up shilling Kanto for a fourth time then i hope they at least dont pull another ORAS and make the game disappointing.

Im talking about things like:
-Cutting Firered/Leafgreen content like the sevii islands
-Copypasting the battle maison AGAIN
-Supereasy difficulty
-Getting handed legendaries (latias or latios in ORAS)
-Megas shoved ingracefully into the storyline
-Nearly absent postgame beyond another glorified fetchquest like the delta edisode

But of course all game freak sees is piles of parents yen and dollars for TEH NEW POGEYMANZ GAEM

 

[Mega_Kris]

I don't even understand how Yellow couldn't be considered a canon title. It's a version of one of the mainline games, simple as that. And I think if the anime were anywhere near the popularity it was back in the day, they'd still be doing little cross-over cameos for in-game trainers as well.

Yellow was a product of it's time for sure, but it also introduced features that future games have undeniabley drawn from, such as pokemon following and surfing/flying pikachu events.

Yellow added similar features in today's time, but it took a while. There are a dozen reasons of why pokemon isn't canon. there's absolutely no reference to it back then. and when there is, its easily contradicted by another aspect.

 

[CloverCamerupt]

I dont even think there is a canon anymore after that delta episode multiverse stuff

 

[Mega_Kris]

I dont even think there is a canon anymore after that delta episode multiverse stuff

If yellow is an alterante universe, then yes its canon...but its not interconnected to any other game.

 

[BettyNewbie]

If yellow is an alterante universe, then yes its canon...but its not interconnected to any other game.

Then, how do you explain Red having a L81 Pikachu and all three Starters in GSC?

 

[Mega_Kris]

Then, how do you explain Red having a L81 Pikachu and all three Starters in GSC?

The same way you explain how Blue/Green "DOESN'T" have an eevee, vaporeon, flareon, or Jolteon.

 

[Mago Luis]

TV Tropes has a name for this: Third Option Adaptation.

As I said, I think the Gen 5 games actually acknowledge the existence of parallel universes, so they handle this issue far better than the other games that lack Third Versions. Memory Link (or a similar feature) is something that I wouldn't mind seeing return in future games.

I think anything like Memory Link could remove the need to ignore or adapt any previous versions. Even just keeping references to previous games ambiguous enough that they can be interpreted as being any of the different versions (and ideally as having been experienced by either protagonist in different ways) would prevent any of these clashes and choices.

So how do you guys think using a feature like Memory Link would impact how users play through sequels? I assume that your player character from the ΩR/αS timeline's counterparts to G/S/C/HG/SS would face off against your player character from the ΩR/αS timeline's counterparts to R/G/B/Y/FR/LG once the former reached Mt. Silver, but what else could happen if events in one game depended on how you played through one of its prequels?

Well, events from previous generations don't usually have much effect on the main stories of later games. But there could be references by name to the character the player used in the Kanto re-remakes if that gets implemented in GSC re-remakes. Just to establish your previous character is part of your continuity.

We also could unlock is something like the Celebi event, but with the Kanto hero from the linked game. Or memories with Team Rocket members discussing their return after the team was disbanded, mentioning the linked player.

 

[BettyNewbie]

The same way you explain how Blue/Green "DOESN'T" have an eevee, vaporeon, flareon, or Jolteon.

Easy, he boxed his Starter, just like he boxed his Fearow and Rattata during Yellow, itself. (Same applies to Magneton, Sandslash, and Cloyster. He felt like they had failed him by losing to Red, so he boxed them all for stronger Pokémon.)

I think anything like Memory Link could remove the need to ignore or adapt any previous versions. Even just keeping references to previous games ambiguous enough that they can be interpreted as being any of the different versions (and ideally as having been experienced by either protagonist in different ways) would prevent any of these clashes and choices.

Yeah, that would be the easiest solution, make it so all choices and options are equally canon.

Well, events from previous generations don't usually have much effect on the main stories of later games.

Only if they continue making every Generation a semi-reboot that puts you in a brand new region with few to no connections to any of the previous games. If they want to do another GSC, a Generation that's a direct sequel to the previous one, this is something they'll have to deal with.

But there could be references by name to the character the player used in the Kanto re-remakes if that gets implemented in GSC re-remakes. Just to establish your previous character is part of your continuity.

We also could unlock is something like the Celebi event, but with the Kanto hero from the linked game. Or memories with Team Rocket members discussing their return after the team was disbanded, mentioning the linked player.

That would be awesome. It's a shame HGSS didn't do something similar with Dual Slot Mode.

 

[Mega_Kris]

Easy, he boxed his Starter, just like he boxed his Fearow and Rattata during Yellow, itself. (Same applies to Magneton, Sandslash, and Cloyster. He felt like they had failed him by losing to Red, so he boxed them all for stronger Pokémon.)

and having all starters is nothing more than being based on nothing. in Yellow, you hae the capabilities of gaining all starter, but that doesn't mean that one version canonically has more pokemon than the other. Red for the most part could've caught all starter pokemon within the 8 year period. but overall, i find it rather ridiculous to hold onto that little slither of evidence when theres more contradicting it.

 

[BettyNewbie]

and having all starters is nothing more than being based on nothing. in Yellow, you hae the capabilities of gaining all starter, but that doesn't mean that one version canonically has more pokemon than the other. Red for the most part could've caught all starter pokemon within the 8 year period. but overall, i find it rather ridiculous to hold onto that little slither of evidence when theres more contradicting it.

What "8 year period"? Only three years separate RBY from GSC.

Red having all three Starters is pretty significant, as Yellow is the only game where you can literally own all three of them. (Yes, you can trade them in from other games or get them as gifts from Stadium in Red/Blue, but none of those Starters will have your name and Trainer ID. Only in Yellow can you get all three under your name and Trainer ID.)

And, there's no special Pikachu gift or event in Red/Blue, and Red's team was pretty obviously meant to be entirely made up of in-game gifts and events. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been 100% neutral.

 

[Mega_Kris]

What "8 year period"? Only three years separate RBY from GSC.

Red having all three Starters is pretty significant, as Yellow is the only game where you can literally own all three of them. (Yes, you can trade them in from other games or get them as gifts from Stadium in Red/Blue, but none of those Starters will have your name and Trainer ID. Only in Yellow can you get all three under your name and Trainer ID.)

And, there's no special Pikachu gift or event in Red/Blue, and Red's team was pretty obviously meant to be entirely made up of in-game gifts and events. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been 100% neutral.

If it matters that much for Red, it should matter even more for Blue not to have the pokemon in the other games. Again, GSC had plenty of chances to make even more references to Yellow, but the pokemon roster of Ash isn't exactly strong enough for me. if the beach house (or ruins of the beach house), jessie, james, and meowth were shown, it would've been interesting. heck there was a chance to make them executives.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Easy, he boxed his Starter, just like he boxed his Fearow and Rattata during Yellow, itself. (Same applies to Magneton, Sandslash, and Cloyster. He felt like they had failed him by losing to Red, so he boxed them all for stronger Pokémon.)



Yeah, that would be the easiest solution, make it so all choices and options are equally canon.



Only if they continue making every Generation a semi-reboot that puts you in a brand new region with few to no connections to any of the previous games. If they want to do another GSC, a Generation that's a direct sequel to the previous one, this is something they'll have to deal with.



That would be awesome. It's a shame HGSS didn't do something similar with Dual Slot Mode.

Blue boxing his Eeveelution though seems...well a little out of character seeing how he was suppose to evolve as a character after that loss...then again people don't change quickly either...he still says "Smell ya later" by XY's time...
Either way if they remake Yellow and eventually Crystal I hope the Crystal remake would have his eeveelution.

Also I think that a Kanto re-remake should give Mega Eeveelutions for the Kanto eeveelutions. Raichu (Pikachu) Wigglytuff (Jigglypuff) and Eevee's evolutions are the only popular Gen I pokemon (in Japan at the time of Gen I) that didn't get Megas in XY. Well Pikachu got costume forms and Eevee got another evolution...but Jigglypuff's line got nothing...

 

[BettyNewbie]

Also I think that a Kanto re-remake should give Mega Eeveelutions for the Kanto eeveelutions. Raichu (Pikachu) Wigglytuff (Jigglypuff) and Eevee's evolutions are the only popular Gen I pokemon (in Japan at the time of Gen I) that didn't get Megas in XY. Well Pikachu got costume forms and Eevee got another evolution...but Jigglypuff's line got nothing...

Don't forget poor Dragonite... Only pre-Gen 5 Pseudo to still not have a Mega. :(

Well, Wigglytuff got the Fairy typing. Unfortunately, Clefable did, too, so Wigglytuff remains outclassed.

What Jigglypuff could really use is a Light Ball-type item of its own, maybe one that doubles its Attack/Sp. Attack/Speed. Ideally, Wigglytuff could use it, too, but GF seems to regard Wigglytuff in a similar way as Raichu.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Don't forget poor Dragonite... Only pre-Gen 5 Pseudo to still not have a Mega. :(

Well, Wigglytuff got the Fairy typing. Unfortunately, Clefable did, too, so Wigglytuff remains outclassed.

What Jigglypuff could really use is a Light Ball-type item of its own, maybe one that doubles its Attack/Sp. Attack/Speed. Ideally, Wigglytuff could use it, too, but GF seems to regard Wigglytuff in a similar way as Raichu.

Well if you look at what seems could be a pattern GF did T and G (II and IV) then they did the Hoenn Psuedo duo (III) so they went from outward to inward and now they'll likely go outward again to do Mega Dragonite and Mega Hydreigon in the next game.
Well at least Dragonite has company in the champion aces without Megas...ORAS didn't give make a Mega Milotic for Wallace when they could've (Flygon also didn't despite being popular and taking the Lati's place in the opening of Emerald).

On the topic of Megas if GF recreates the original opening from the Gen I games will they have Nidorino fight Mega Gengar? Or will the two be replaced like how ORAS replaced the Pokemon battling in RS and Emerald with (Megas) Camerupt and Sharpedo. Or perhaps have Mega Nidoking versus Mega Gengar.

Since Hoenn's E4 got Megas post game chances are likely for aces of Kanto E4. Mega Dragonite is obvious. Agatha will very likely get Mega Gengar. Now Bruno...Mega Machamp needs to happen. Lorelei could use...Mega Lapras? Or will she end up getting Mega Slowbro? (I know it's not ice and that will bother me).

 

[BettyNewbie]

Well if you look at what seems could be a pattern GF did T and G (II and IV) then they did the Hoenn Psuedo duo (III) so they went from outward to inward and now they'll likely go outward again to do Mega Dragonite and Mega Hydreigon in the next game.

If they're waiting to introduce Mega Dragonite alongside Mega Hydreigon... Could that possibly mean that Mega Dragonite will be Dragon/Fairy? I mean, why else would they hold off on introducing it if they weren't going to do something major with it like a type change? And, a Dragon/Fairy Dragonite would contrast nicely against Hydreigon, good dragon vs evil dragon.

Well at least Dragonite has company in the champion aces without Megas...ORAS didn't give make a Mega Milotic for Wallace when they could've (Flygon also didn't despite being popular and taking the Lati's place in the opening of Emerald).

Sadly, I think Wallace has been largely retconned out of being a Champion, especially if those Emerald features left out of ORAS end up never returning to the games. That's probably why they didn't even bother giving Milotic a Mega. :sideways:

I feel bad for Flygon. It's literally the only Gen 3 Dragon to not have a Mega, and to make matters worse, they have Aarune, the Secret Base expert who has a Flygon as his ace, give you the Mega Stone for GARCHOMP, instead. Talk about a middle finger.

On the topic of Megas if GF recreates the original opening from the Gen I games will they have Nidorino fight Mega Gengar? Or will the two be replaced like how ORAS replaced the Pokemon battling in RS and Emerald with (Megas) Camerupt and Sharpedo. Or perhaps have Mega Nidoking versus Mega Gengar.

Well, if it's a Yellow remake, we'll get this opening, but with Cosplay Pikachu.

As someone who owned Blue instead of Red, I'd like to see the Jigglypuff vs Gengar battle return in paired remakes (or, at least, the Blue one)--Never liked how FRLG ignored it over Red's Nidorino vs Gengar intro.

Either intro, though, would probably have Mega Gengar. Not sure about Nidorino/Jigglypuff, though.

Since Hoenn's E4 got Megas post game chances are likely for aces of Kanto E4. Mega Dragonite is obvious. Agatha will very likely get Mega Gengar. Now Bruno...Mega Machamp needs to happen. Lorelei could use...Mega Lapras? Or will she end up getting Mega Slowbro? (I know it's not ice and that will bother me).

Agatha will obviously have Mega Gengar. Since Machamp/Golem are likely to get Megas for parity with Alakazam/Gengar, that has Bruno covered, too.

Lorelei could have either Lapras or Jynx, although most likely the former, considering GF's hatred for the latter. Mega Lapras, though, is likely to drop its Ice typing for either mono-Water, Water/Fairy, or Water/Dragon, but that doesn't bother me. (Mega Jynx, if she happens, I'd prefer to be Ice/Fairy).

Lance, of course, will get his Dragon/Fairy Mega Dragonite, perfect for a beautiful fairytale knight like him. {<3}

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

If they're waiting to introduce Mega Dragonite alongside Mega Hydreigon... Could that possibly mean that Mega Dragonite will be Dragon/Fairy? I mean, why else would they hold off on introducing it if they weren't going to do something major with it like a type change? And, a Dragon/Fairy Dragonite would contrast nicely against Hydreigon, good dragon vs evil dragon.



Sadly, I think Wallace has been largely retconned out of being a Champion, especially if those Emerald features left out of ORAS end up never returning to the games. That's probably why they didn't even bother giving Milotic a Mega. :sideways:

I feel bad for Flygon. It's literally the only Gen 3 Dragon to not have a Mega, and to make matters worse, they have Aarune, the Secret Base expert who has a Flygon as his ace, give you the Mega Stone for GARCHOMP, instead. Talk about a middle finger.



Well, if it's a Yellow remake, we'll get this opening, but with Cosplay Pikachu.

As someone who owned Blue instead of Red, I'd like to see the Jigglypuff vs Gengar battle return in paired remakes (or, at least, the Blue one)--Never liked how FRLG ignored it over Red's Nidorino vs Gengar intro.

Either intro, though, would probably have Mega Gengar. Not sure about Nidorino/Jigglypuff, though.



Agatha will obviously have Mega Gengar. Since Machamp/Golem are likely to get Megas for parity with Alakazam/Gengar, that has Bruno covered, too.

Lorelei could have either Lapras or Jynx, although most likely the former, considering GF's hatred for the latter. Mega Lapras, though, is likely to drop its Ice typing for either mono-Water, Water/Fairy, or Water/Dragon, but that doesn't bother me. (Mega Jynx, if she happens, I'd prefer to be Ice/Fairy).

Lance, of course, will get his Dragon/Fairy Mega Dragonite, perfect for a beautiful fairytale knight like him. {<3}

I will feel kind of bad for Altaria...it's Mega's unique typing won't be unique much longer if they do that. You bring up an interesting point in thinking that they will contrast the Pseudos...as XY's were both related to sandstorms (in addition to being the odd gen Megas), while as I said ORAS had both Hoenn Pseudos. If Dragonite doesn't get Dragon/Fairy or keeps it's typing then they should make Dragonite Dragon/Water and give it the ability multiscale or Drizzle (this one as it's pre-evolutions had some ability to control the weather according to dex entries).

Well I don't think they retcon Wallace out of being champion if the ending of the Delta Episode is any indication (perhaps we'll see Mega Milotic in a couple of year once Delta Emerald is made...I hope...). Let's just hope that GF doesn't end up saving Dragonite for potential HGSS remakes...