(RMT) Sleeper Hold

[Romo_Owens]

Well here's my standard shoddy team. It's somewhat similar to my old RMT with 3 new Pokemon and some changes I made based on your suggestions. Pretty much my whole team is composed on standard Smogon sets so theres almost no element of surprise. A lot of my team is focused on Hypnosis which has it's up and down sides.

*image removed* *image removed* *image removed* *image removed* *image removed*


Bronzong @ Leftovers

216 Hp/146 atk/146 def/4 sp.Def
Sassy

-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake
-Hypnosis
-Stealth Rock

My stealth Rock support and mixed wall. I tweaked a bit with the ev stats to allow it to pack more of a punch and be more inclined towards a defensive wall despite the sassy nature. Plus a Fire Blast Garchomp is going the way of the dodo bird and the vast majority of Garchomps pack Fire Fang.

Garchomp @ Yache Berry

252 atk/252 spd/4 hp
Jolly

-Outrage
-Swords Dance
-EarthQuake
-Fire Fang

Hooray for the Band Wagon.

Milotic @ Leftovers

124 HP / 252 Def / 132 SpA
Calm

-Hypnosis
-Recover
-Surf
-Ice Beam

Man is this thing awesome or what. It's fun to use, outspeeds most other walls, and generally my Special Wall (even though it's not what the standard is intended to be). It's got a solid base 95 HP stat and a fantastic 125 special defense stat followed by a incredible ability in Marvel Scale and Recover. What else do you need in a wall?

Weavile @ Choice Band

252 Spd/252 atk/4 HP
Jolly

-Brick Break
-Pursuit
-Ice Shard
-Ice Punch

I like this Weavile as a revenge killer. I chose the 252/252 spread because I'm more afraid of the likes of Alakazam than Azelf. Also I'm tryingthis set out on shoddy for a bit, experimenting with Ice Punch and Shard on the same set. However, I'm thinking of substituting Ice Punch for Night Slash

Swampert @ Leftovers

240 HP / 180 Def / 88 SpD
Impish

-Curse
-Avalance
-EarthQuake
-Roar

An all STAB cursepert with Roar because I felt like it.

Gengar @ Wide Lens

*image removed*

252 Sp. Atk/252 spd/4 HP
Timid

-Shadow Ball
-ThunderBolt
-Focus Blast
-Hypnosis

A standard, boring old Gengar with the ability to tear teams apart that aren't prepared for it. Due to a lot of feedback in the old post, I have changed sludge Bomb to Thunderbolt. Don't bother commenting of Wide Lens because I'm not changing it.

Well that's my team. As you may have noticed. I really don't like choice items.

Although this is the most common combo of pokemon i use I also commonly turn to scarfcross, standard Hippowdon, Porygon-Z, and Jirachi.
Oh and also, please no "Milotic Special Wall is lol. Blissey pwns."

 

[Dark Azelf]

Bronzong @ Leftovers

252 HP / 86 Atk / 80 Def / 92 Sp.D
Sassy

-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake
-Hypnosis
-Stealth Rock

Above spread with sassy, you dont need that much attack at all.



Garchomp @ Yache Berry

252 atk/252 spd/4 hp
Jolly

-Outrage
-Swords Dance
-EarthQuake
-Fire Fang

Hooray for the Band Wagon.

Its uber officially, check smogon if you dont believe me. So you wont be facing it nor are you able to use it competetivly anymore (Unless you play ubers). You may want to find something to replace it.

Milotic @ Leftovers

252 HP / 252 DEF / 6 SP.DEF
Bold

-Toxic / Light Screen
-Recover
-Surf
-Hidden power Electric

On a team THIS gyarados weak Bold and Hidden power Electric is a given and you wont need Ice Beam with weavile around. Hypnosis AGAIN? Whats the point once you've put something to sleep you've pretty much wasted slots on your other sleep inducers due to sleep clause, so use Toxic, which makes this thing really difficult to get rid of. Whilst Light Screen is great to support the team.

You wont need a special wall either tbh, zong will be able to cope just fine.


Weavile @ Choice Band

252 Spd/252 atk/4 HP
Jolly

-Brick Break
-Pursuit
-Ice Shard / Ice Punch
-Night Slash

Yay lets be walled by bulky psychics should they stay in. You NEED Night Slash.

Choose between Shard and Punch.



Swampert @ Leftovers

240 HP / 180 Def / 88 SpD
Impish

-Curse
-Avalance
-EarthQuake
-Roar / Rest

Umm, what does this acomplish ?. I advise CroPert since your team cant really absorb sleep. And in all honesty without Rest this wont be doing much tbh and will die before doing any real damage. This team slot could be put to better use i feel...



Gengar @ Wide Lense

*image removed*

252 Sp. Atk/252 spd/4 HP
Timid

-Shadow Ball
-ThunderBolt
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power Ice / Destiny Bond

More Hypnosis ? Yay lets waste slots due to sleep clause >_>

There are a whole myraid of options that could be used in the last slot, HP ice takes dragons, Destiny Bond when your close to dieing.

Heck one could even opt for Hasty, Life Orb + Explosion , then there is Will-o-wisp for Bronzong, metagross, tyranitar "checks". Or there is even Taunt. So its pretty much up to you here.

Comments in bold.


Maybe Rest talk machamp could go >> Swampert and with Dynamic Punch it will give you a form of PHazing, helps with your large Tyranitar weakness and allows your team to absorb status.

Machamp@Leftovers
252 HP / 36 ATT / 216 DEF / 4 SPeed
Impish nature
Trait : No Guard
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge / Ice Punch
- Rest
- Sleep Talk


Next in Garchomps place maybe a fighting resist for SD Lucario who is capable of 6-0 ing you with Bullet Punch in its moveset for Gengar. Salamence could fit here quite nicely. Either DD Sweep Mence or BulkyDDRoost sets would go along way. So ill leave this up to you.

 

[Romo_Owens]

Yup I know I acutally realized maybe 15 minutes after I posted this thread that finally the whinners that couldn't handle Garchomp put it in Uber so I've already started working on my replacement:

Dragonite @ Yache Berry

Adamant Nature

252 Atk/252 spd

-Outrage
-Dragon Dance
-EarthQuake
-Fire Punch

Well theres my new Garchomp... Not too different from the old Garchomp. Some People will tell you that Dragonite is an inferior Salamence but I have to disagree. Dragonite has access to Outrage which in my opinion alone gives enough reason to use him, and I really like the extra bulk that Dragonite has on him. I've been thinking about getting a DD Gyarados on my team for a while but in my opinion Dragonite is just better.

Oh and also, I thought the sleep clause implied that only one Pokemon can be asleep at a time, in other words, you can put as many pokes to sleep as you want as long as no other pokemon is asleep.

If I am wrong, then I will switch to Cleric Blissey. Oh and also, I know you criticised that Swampert, but I have to disagree. It has been doing fantastic on Shoddy. And Roar is just because I have no other pseudo hazers on my team, and it does come in useful especially when an unwanted Gyarados is flipping around with Dragon Dances.

I also don't understand how I'm Gyarados and Tyranitar fragile. Gengar OHKOs Gyarados wit thunderbolt, and Tyranitar doesn't scare Swampert to the least by who just Earthquakes it away. Or weavile brick breaks it.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Well theres my new Garchomp... Not too different from the old Garchomp. Some People will tell you that Dragonite is an inferior Salamence but I have to disagree. Dragonite has access to Outrage which in my opinion alone gives enough reason to use him, and I really like the extra bulk that Dragonite has on him. I've been thinking about getting a DD Gyarados on my team for a while but in my opinion Dragonite is just better.

Salamence gets Outrage in Platinum =p.

Oh and also, I thought the sleep clause implied that only one Pokemon can be asleep at a time, in other words, you can put as many pokes to sleep as you want as long as no other pokemon is asleep.

Yes and once you put once poke to sleep with Bronzong you've then wasted 2 slots on Milo and Gengar. One sleep inducer is enough.


I also don't understand how I'm Gyarados and Tyranitar fragile. Gengar OHKOs Gyarados wit thunderbolt, and Tyranitar doesn't scare Swampert to the least by who just Earthquakes it away. Or weavile brick breaks
it.

Gyarados outspeeds Gengar after a Dragon Dance and OHKO's with Waterfall =/. Hence my suggestions for Milotic with Bold and HP electric to counter it.


Swampert sucks as a t-tar counter it gets 2hko'd by DD/CB Boosted Crunches and fails to OHKO in return with Earthquake. Hence why i suggested Machamp > it which would be way more useful for this team as i explained again previously .

Weavile cant switch in for crap on tar.

Most this stuff i actually explained in my previous post if you cared to look at it more closely =p.

This may be of some use aswell : -

A counter must be able to both switch into the pokémon it's supposed to counter, with little to no risk to itself, and also pose an immediate threat to said pokémon.

 

[.]

Bronzong @ Leftovers
216 Hp/146 atk/146 def/4 sp.Def
Sassy
-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake
-Hypnosis
-Stealth Rock

Fine, however, I'd invest a LOT more in SpD. Go 252 HP/86 Att/80 Def/94 SpD

Garchomp @ Yache Berry
252 atk/252 spd/4 hp
Jolly
-Outrage
-Swords Dance
-EarthQuake
-Fire Fang

Banned from OU. Scrap it for somthing else.

Milotic @ Leftovers
124 HP / 252 Def / 132 SpA
Calm
-Hypnosis
-Recover
-Surf
-Ice Beam

Standard.

Weavile @ Choice Band
252 Spd/252 atk/4 HP
Jolly

-Brick Break
-Pursuit
-Ice Shard
-Ice Punch

Walled too heavily by Cress and Bronzong. Use Night Slash over Ice Punch or Ice Shard. Ice Shard is more useful in my opinion, since you have little answer to a DD Salamence.

Swampert @ Leftovers
240 HP / 180 Def / 88 SpD
Impish
-Curse
-Avalance
-EarthQuake
-Roar

Use Rest over Roar. It won't like long at all without some form of recovery.

Gengar @ Wide Lense
252 Sp. Atk/252 spd/4 HP
Timid
-Shadow Ball
-ThunderBolt
-Focus Blast
-Hypnosis

Use ScarfGar. You have no answer to DD Gyara and the sort. ScarfGar can outrun +2 Gyarados and OHKO with Tbolt (unless it packs Wacan Berry, which is rare)

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Timid
252 SpA/252 Spe/6 HP
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Focus Blast

 

[Romo_Owens]

I still refuse to believe that I have a Tyranitar hole because I've faced a fair bit of TTars on Shoddy and have never had trouble with any of them. I either switch to Bronzong who has no problems with Crunch or revenge kill it with Weavile However, I agree about Gyarados though so I'm about to start working on the best counter in my opinion to Gyarados. Because Right now out of all my pokemon that can calmly wall Gyarados is my Jirachi:


Dusknoir @ Lefties
Impish
252 hp/252 def/6 sp. def

-Pain Split
-Thunder Punch
-Ice Punch
-Will-O-Wisp

A Gyarados with max attack, life orb and one DD 3hkos with Aqua Tail and Thunderpunch 2hkos. I decided screw fire punch and go with the physical bolt-beam combo.

 

[.]

Okay, from what you just posted, I can tell you've been battling morons, or are just ignorant. Bronzong is 2HKO'd by Max Att CBTar Crunch. And revenge killing isn't a great argument, since TTar can, I dunno, leave?

 

[Anti]

Okay, from what you just posted, I can tell you've been battling morons, or are just ignorant. Bronzong is 2HKO'd by Max Att CBTar Crunch. And revenge killing isn't a great argument, since TTar can, I dunno, leave?

What kind of argument is that. You could say the exact same thing about counters. For example:

Yeah Machamp can counter Tyranitar but that's not a valid argument since it can switch out!

Mamoswine isn't a viable way to stop a DDmence sweep because Mence can switch out!

Yeah something can switch out, but it HAS to or it dies. It's the same with counters, checks, revenge killers, or whatever you use. By that logic nothing can be countered or revenge killed because the pokemon that is trying to be stopped can, I dunno, switch out? I mean really =/

That's a REALLY misleading and downright incorrect statement ._. I'm surprised to hear that from you considering you use revenge killers >_>

That being said, I actually agree that there is a slight Tyranitar weakness since everything gets totally massacred by Crunch. The DDer isn't really a problem with Bronzong around, but be careful about it in general since it can wear down your team quickly. As far as a threat to actually sweep your team in converned, Tyranitar doesn't really pose one at all so I wouldn't worry about it in that regard.

Garchomp obviously has to go due to its tier status, so I would recommend a fighting resist. Just about every fighter not only sees no counter on this team, but sees no revenge killer or ANYTHING. The best you have in most cases is a Shadow Ball from Gengar (who btw likes Life Orb a lot more than Wide Lens, which is useless). I don't really like Dragonite as it's weak to SR with no recovery, and any fighter can beat it with secondary moves anyways. A more stable pokemon like Weezing would be helpful (and WoW is really a big help).

I would also replace Swampert. It doesn't really seem to do anything that Milotic and Bronzong don't take care of besides PHaze the rare Ninjask. A good sweeper like Lucario in its place could be very useful.

 

[.]

What kind of argument is that. You could say the exact counters. For example:

Yeah Machamp can counter Tyranitar but that's not a valid argument since it can switch out!

Mamoswine isn't a viable way to stop a DDmence sweep because Mence can switch out!

You're right. But my point still stands. Having Weavile as your only way to stop DD or CBTar isn't really healthy.