Scizor...Put those Swords down, can't we just talk this out? [OU RMT]

[Malicious Metang]

I've been using this team reliably for a couple of weeks, and have had immense success with it. The current score is 11-0 of the most updated version, though this team has a total of 30 battles (it has won 28 out of the 30). Basically, the main goal of this team is to sweep, using both lures and bulky offense tactics so my teammates can destroy one another's counters in the long-run. You can call this a "bulky-offense team", though I don't rely on Spikes and my bulkiest Pokemon (Swampert) can easily dent things with its respectable attack. Battles with this team is fast paced, since I find stall boring and repetative, nevermind very difficult to effectively use. Please note that I will not be changing certain members of this team, not because I'm being stubborn, but because most of the time, the Pokemon I refuse to replace is likely either extremely vital or is the centerpiece of the team, case in point, Tyranitar.

The Team
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*pokemonelite2000 image removed* "image removed" *pokemonelite2000 image removed*

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Swampert @ Leftovers
Relaxed (+ Def, - Spe)
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spe
~Stealth Rock
~Earthquake
~Ice Beam
~Roar​

Role: Swampert provides this team with an early Stealth Rock as well as answer to a ton of the metagame's biggest threats. Things like Salamence, Heatran, and even Tyranitar have trouble against this mud-fish, and all three can be downed by the super effective moves of choice. Earthquake and Ice Beam have fantastic coverage, hitting the above mentioned threats for KOs (excluding Tyranitar, though it will die with a tiny bit of residual damage) as well as dealing with the most common leads in the metagame, excluding Azelf. Against stall, Swampert's bulk and ability to stop things like Hippowdon and Tentacruel from setting things up leisurely is absolutely key to the team's success, and against offense, Roar can help spread residual damage as well as stop any stat-upping Pokemon from growing too powerful. Swamper also definately enjoys the wonderful resistences it has, namely Rock, Fire, and immunity to Electric. Alongside this, Swampert starts off my Water / Fire / Grass defensive combination, as works excellently with CeleTran as the three together resist every move in the game.​

Replacements: There could be a few replacements to take Swampert's job, as Stealth Rock is easy to come by. However, on a team such as this where defense is a major component, things like Aerodactyl and Azelf don't seem to cut it. Metagross could work similarly, since it resists Rock and can take on things like Tyranitar and Salamence quite decently with the right EV spread. Still, being able to counter Agiligross is one of the main reasons I chose Swampert to be my lead, and not some other Stealth Rock deployer.​

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Hasty (+ Spe, - Def)
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~Fire Blast
~Earth Power
~Dragon Pulse
~Explosion​

Role: Heatran remains one of the most potent revenge killers in the metagame, and can check a large majority of the top threats that run rampant in OU. Scizor, Lucario, Infernape, Latias, and even Mixed Salamence can all be revenge killed by Heatran, and due to its wonderful typing, the lava spewing trashcan also even switch-in on a good majority of these foe's moves. Fire Blast and Earth Power are the staple moves on every Heatran, as together they hit most of OU for super effective and the rest of it for neutral damage. Dragon Pulse helps round out the coverage by killing the Dragons such as Flygon and Salamence who can take Fire Blasts. I use Explosion primarily when Blissey is obviously going to switch-in, and Suicune will be able to run through the opposition's team. Along with Celebi and Swampert, Heatran forms a nearly impenetrable defensive core composed of Water / Fire / Grass, and with their secondary types taken into account, they resist every type in the game. Flash Fire is just icin on the cake, letting me absorb Will O Wisps aimed at Tyranitar and even Scizor. With a boost from the fire attack it abosrbs, Heatran can become a monstrous sweeper.

Replacements: It's impossible to find a replacement for Heatran. No other Pokemon can do what he does, primarily because his excellent typing and wonderful stat distribution is unmatched and his ability lets him take some of the most threatening Fire attacks from the like of Infernape and Salamence without flinching. Truly, Heatran is a staple on most serious Platinum teams for a damn good reason.

Celebi @ Life Orb
Timid (+ Spe, - Atk)
82 HP / 182 Spe / 246 SpA
~Leaf Storm
~Hidden Power Fire
~Thunder Wave
~Recover​

Role: Celebi is the final piece to the Water / Fire / Grass defensive combination my team has. Thanks to her excellent stats (100 across the board is not mediocre, it's actually very, very good). Celebi sports some superb resistences, namely to Water, Fighting, Ground, and Electric. Unlike most Celebi, I tend to play mine a bit more offensively, though thanks to the HP investment, she is still quite bulky. The EV spread seems a tad weird, but I can explain. I decided that Swords Dance Lucario was a major issue, since barely anything on my team can take a Close Combat. I decided to take that slow, yet bulky Tinkerbell EV spread and make it a bit faster, albeit remain some form of bulk. 182 Speed EVs because HP Fire removes a Speed IV, and it also grants 308 Speed, enough to outrun Jolly Lucario by 2 points, thus outrunning anything outrunning Jolly Lucario by 1 point. 82 HP to remain some form of bulk, and the rest is just dumped into Special Attack. Thunder Wave is an awesome move, and can screw those cocky Mence switch-ins ins right over. Leaf Storm is chosen over Grass Knot to deal with CM Cune as well as pretty much OHKO every Water-type, especially those trying to stall me out. Hidden Power Fire allows me to revenge Lucario after a CC drop or a few Life Orb recoils, and Recover is just a standard recovery move that allows me to keep on trucking.​

Replacements: There can be no replacements to Celebi, much like Heatran. Its too good of a Pokemon to waste really, and thanks to the impressive amount of Pokemon it can OHKO and check, I highly doubt Celebi will be leaving soon. I may tweak the EV spread to outrun Base 95s if Houndoom ever becomes problamatic (rofl).​

Suicune @ Leftovers
Timid (+ Spe, - Atk)
172 HP / 120 SpA / 216 Spe
~Calm Mind
~Surf
~Ice Beam
~Hidden Power Electric​

Role: Suicune was often seen as a defensive Pokemon in early DPPt, sometimes sporting ResTalk and Calm Mind to make it nearly unstoppable late in the game. I do love CroCune, but it occured to me that it was not stopping what Suicune itself is meant to stop, namely things like Salamence, Gyarados and even bulky Waters (Vaporeon especially). Offensive Suicune lacked the bulk to make use of its excellent typing and god-send stats, so I decided to try out a defensive Calm Mind sweeper. I must say, ever since that day, I cannot make a fully functionable team without this Suicune set. It's the perfect balance of offense and defense, and can easily sweep late or even towards the climax of the game. Suicune is my main answer to things like Gyarados, Salamence (obviously the Dragon Dancer is a tad harder to combat), and even Adamant Lucario. All of these threats are either outran or just unable to OHKO while I OHKO them back. If Blissey is dead, Suicune ends up taking stall for a joy ride, as many defensive teams use Celebi and Rotom-A as their backup against Suicune, and both of these threats are either handled by my team, or are unable to stop a more offensive Suicune such as mine.​

Replacements: Again, it's really hard to find something that does what Suicune does. A bulky Gyarados seems to be the best thing to fit in this slot, and while it could help soften up DD Tyranitar's counters, an extra Stealth Rock weakness and extra Gengar bait would be all too unhealthy for this team. Suicune has been the MVP in most of my matches, so it's hard to say goodbye to be perfectly frank.​

Tyranitar @ Life Orb / Babiri Berry
Jolly (+ Spe, - SpA)
~Dragon Dance
~Crunch
~Stone Edge
~Earthquake / Fire Punch​

Role: The core of this team, for various reasons. Tyranitar is one of my favorite Pokemon, due to its awesome design as well as great movepool. I used to use Mixed Tyranitar excessively, and Choice Band Tyranitar a bit, however, I never tried the Dragon Dance variant, something I regret not doing sooner. A lot of teams are weak to this thing once it has set up, offense especially. It seems now that Scizor has grown in popularity, people stop preparing for this thing, and use their own Scizor to counter it (which never works, because Stone Edge on the switch does a ton, and with a few Stealth Rock switches, it'll end up killing that overused bug). Tyranitar has his way with stall once Hippowdon has been eliminated (totally managable since half of my team hits it for super effective, and the other two can set up and beat it or hit it hard on the special side of the spectrum). I play Tyranitar conservatively, and sometimes let it come out early and start attacking early on, since it's still very powerful without the boost provided from Dragon Dance. Once Scizor is gone and this guy gets a clean set up, more often it's not, it's GG.​

Replacements: The heart of this team cannot be replaced, though I may make some changes. Babiri Berry is the best option over Life Orb, as it lets me live a Bullet Punch from even a Choice Band Scizor and retaliate with a powerful Fire Punch for the OHKO. Babiri Berry would also suit my style of play a bit better, as it'll let me feint Choice Band and can give me some unexpected Dragon Dances against things like Lucario and then allow me to sweep. Still, Fire Punch would limit my coverage, and leave me more vulnerable to opposing things like Rhyperior, Tyranitar, and Heatran. The power drop might be significant, as a Jolly Tyranitar with no boosting item can't even 2HKO a max HP / max Def Cresselia when Crunch is used, whereas Life Orb guarantees the 2HKO.​

Scizor @ Life Orb
Adamant (+ Atk, - SpA)
32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
~Swords Dance
~Bullet Punch
~X-Scissor​

~Superpower

Role: "What's this? A Swords Dance Scizor? Noob". This is what I've been hearing in most of my battles, although ironically Scizor is usually the thing that keeps this team from getting owned by a ton of today's biggest threats. This used to be an Agiligross, and with Gengar over Celebi, it formed that sexy TyraniMetaGar (lol). Scizor is similar to Metagross, except with more power at the cost of less Speed (Bullet Punch does make up for it however). Basically, once everyone on my team has done their thing, Scizor sweeps. It's sort of a "back-up plan" just in case Tyranitar doesn't manage a clean sweep, which has happened despite the fact that this team supports it well enough. Scizor also helps this team's enormous Gengar weakness, as most will stay in expecting a Pursuit only to be laughed at by a STAB Bullet Punch. I know a lot of people feel the Choice Bander is a superior set in this stage of the metagame, however, I've come to realize a lot of people don't expect to see "Scizor used Swords Dance!", instead, they expect to see "Scizor used U-turn!". The moves are self-explanatory, Swords Dance boosts my Attack to an insane 1024 factoring Life Orb, while X-Scissor is generally the move used to maim things like bulky Waters, bulky Grounds, and Psychic types. Superpower hits Steel-types like Magnezone and Heatran (on the switch), and Bullet Punch is essentially the sweeping move of choice.

Replacements: I really like this form of Scizor, though changing it back to an Agiligross could possibly be useful, especially against things like Gyarados, Zapdos, and Rotom-A (Zen Headbutt deals a ton to all of them, and with Stealth Rock it KOs Zapdos if I remember correctly). A Fighting-resist could also work well here, provided it can sweep. Things like Heracross or even Toxicroak (hey! It's not like it doesn't stop Gengar) could somehow fit, although I doubt they'd be able to pull off a sweep as easily as Scizor can. I may test a bulky Dancer, though if I do, Life Orb is a definate must on Tyranitar.

Closing Comments​

I've had a good amount of success with this team, though I feel the need to retire it for various reasons. The fact that stall and Fighting-types in general give this team a ton of trouble bothers me, and makes me feel it was poorly constructed, yet whenever I try and fix it, I end up doing worse and feel that this team has reached its prime. I'm open to comments, and will definately take them provided they are properly explained and will work. I'm still trying to get 50 battles with this team, and if you guys can suggest stuff to make it better, I'd be enormously thankful :)​

Problems​

- A terrible issue for this team. If the user just spams Dynamicpunches it can literally just kill my entire team bar Celebi, who takes a ton from Payback and has to pray it doesn't get hit by Confusion before Leaf Storming it. This guy is bulky as hell too, so that's another issue. Major help needed.​

- Another problem for this team, mainly because it has Focus Blast. It 2HKOs or OHKOs everything on my team, and is only revenge killed by Heatran and Scizor. Swampert and Suicune can take hits from it, though only the latter can hit it back hard. Substitute Gengar with HP Fire / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast is also a major pain in the behind. Help appreciated.​

- Not as big as of problem as Gengar or Machamp, but it does takes a toll on my team. They generally U-turn early on, so Heatran is a pretty safe bet, but when they start Earthquaking, Celebi is my best answer, which can be a fatal mistake if they U-turn or even Outrage. Help required.​

*image removed*- Close Combat generally causes my team a lot of grief =( Any Fighting move does now that I think about it. PLEASE ASSIST.​

- Ground moves in general are painful due to the lack of an immunity and Celebi not being as defensive as others. I'm really in need of some sort of help. PLEASE ASSIST.​

 

[Sebastien Loeb]

Excellent team, but enough a lead sleeper to stop it, a lead with Sleep Powder as Roserade puts a lot you in difficulty.

 

[Syaoran]

The biggest problem for this team is obviously Roserade, setting up toxic spikes (destroys Swampert, Suicune and TTar) and sleeping a pokemon right on the first turn (the only natural heal poke is Celebi, and it doesn't like sludge bomb). Smeargle can achieve the same thing.

I don't know how to help you with the "other problems" since it will most likely force you to change a few pokes for a different synergy. It seems to me that there are too many stat uppers (Scizor, Suicune, Tyranitar), and lack of immediate hard hitters - it makes playing that team much harder since most of the time your opponent will have an answer to each of them. This is why people use Scizor with U-turn (CB most likely) because it allows you to be 1 step ahead of your opponent.

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

To be honest I think you should just run CBTar>>DDTar. TTar really backs up Scizor really well, covering it's weaknesses/counters and the ability to do that is somewhat hindered when both have to set up. CBTar would also give better coverage with Aqua Tail>>EQ. It also has the power that DDTar lacks before a DD. This could also help with the problem Syaoran pointed out. (too many set up sweepers)

 

[Sebastien Loeb]

Well for the two problems just mentioned, Blissey is always a great thing to have for aromatherapy or wish. Useful to have t-wave on it as well. off the top of my head, here's a quick blissey setup

Blissey@focus sash
252 hp/252 def/sp def
T-wave
Softboiled
Aromatherapy
Last resort/ S toss

I would use def EVs as it has a pretty high sp def already and needs more defense, aromatherapy and t-wave give support and make way for slower pokemon to have a chance and therapy heals any status problems anyone has. Softboiled is just a stall strategy. Also you have nothing that is immune to ground, which is a huge mistake. It give u a free switch in if your opponent is using EQ and u have something that flies or levitates. You may want to try bonzong?

For your move troubles, well u need something resistant to fighting moves such as close combat, but I would say your team is fairly well set up as is so its up to you.

I am not agree with the insertion of Blissey this team becomes a lot of weak to Lucario, it is not a good idea.

 

[Divine~Deoxys]

Well for the two problems just mentioned, Blissey is always a great thing to have for aromatherapy or wish. Useful to have t-wave on it as well. off the top of my head, here's a quick blissey setup

Blissey@focus sash
252 hp/252 def/sp def
T-wave
Softboiled
Aromatherapy
Last resort/ S toss

I would use def EVs as it has a pretty high sp def already and needs more defense, aromatherapy and t-wave give support and make way for slower pokemon to have a chance and therapy heals any status problems anyone has. Softboiled is just a stall strategy. Also you have nothing that is immune to ground, which is a huge mistake. It give u a free switch in if your opponent is using EQ and u have something that flies or levitates. You may want to try bonzong?

For your move troubles, well u need something resistant to fighting moves such as close combat, but I would say your team is fairly well set up as is so its up to you.

Now I'll point the biggest problem that has.

IF YOU ARE TAUNTED IT IS HELPLESS

edit: don't mean to be angry, im just in a mood attehmo.



Also, i might be being stupid, but it looks to me like Infernape can sweep your entire team.

Swampert and Suicune get pwnd by Grass Knot (not sure if it's OHKO)
Celebi and Scizor are weak to Fire, which is his STAB, so he'll pack a fire move.
Ttar, Heatran and Scizor are weak to Close Combat (as you listed on your threats list).

I can suggest Tentacruel, Starmie or Cresselia, if you can slot it in somewhere.


Life Orb Zapdos also does a lot to this team, as far as i can see the only poke safe from it is Heatran.
Gengar also tends to walk all over you if it's running Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt/Focus Blast/ HP Ice , although obviously if it misses Ttar will take it out with Crunch.
;)Hope that lot helps

 

[Malicious Metang]

I appreciate all the rates guys, thanks =)

Excellent team, but enough a lead sleeper to stop it, a lead with Sleep Powder as Roserade puts a lot you in difficulty.

Roserade isn't all too common, so if it does give me problems (which it does ironically, but it's nothing that's I'm going to be swept by). I can work around it, as worst comes to worst something gets put to sleep.

The biggest problem for this team is obviously Roserade, setting up toxic spikes (destroys Swampert, Suicune and TTar) and sleeping a pokemon right on the first turn (the only natural heal poke is Celebi, and it doesn't like sludge bomb). Smeargle can achieve the same thing.

True, but the same could be said about most teams (at least the sleep part). Most teams, this one included, can't fit a status absorber. It'll be a difficult way to start off a match, but I can handle it.

I don't know how to help you with the "other problems" since it will most likely force you to change a few pokes for a different synergy. It seems to me that there are too many stat uppers (Scizor, Suicune, Tyranitar), and lack of immediate hard hitters - it makes playing that team much harder since most of the time your opponent will have an answer to each of them. This is why people use Scizor with U-turn (CB most likely) because it allows you to be 1 step ahead of your opponent.

I considered making Scizor a Choice Bander, but I found that it ended up doing less and less against things like offense and stall. I do agree that there are too many set-up sweepers, and D_A can attest to that.

To be honest I think you should just run CBTar>>DDTar. TTar really backs up Scizor really well, covering it's weaknesses/counters and the ability to do that is somewhat hindered when both have to set up. CBTar would also give better coverage with Aqua Tail>>EQ. It also has the power that DDTar lacks before a DD. This could also help with the problem Syaoran pointed out. (too many set up sweepers)

This sounds like the best alternative, as Pursuit can wear out most of Scizor's counters (Rotom-A, Zapdos, and even Gyarados in some special cases). I am definately going to test this out, and will probably intergrate it in the next version of the team.

Now I'll point the biggest problem that has.

IF YOU ARE TAUNTED IT IS HELPLESS

edit: don't mean to be angry, im just in a mood attehmo.



Also, i might be being stupid, but it looks to me like Infernape can sweep your entire team.

Swampert and Suicune get pwnd by Grass Knot (not sure if it's OHKO)
Celebi and Scizor are weak to Fire, which is his STAB, so he'll pack a fire move.
Ttar, Heatran and Scizor are weak to Close Combat (as you listed on your threats list).

I can suggest Tentacruel, Starmie or Cresselia, if you can slot it in somewhere.


Life Orb Zapdos also does a lot to this team, as far as i can see the only poke safe from it is Heatran.
Gengar also tends to walk all over you if it's running Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt/Focus Blast/ HP Ice , although obviously if it misses Ttar will take it out with Crunch.
;)Hope that lot helps

Your correct that Gengar and Infernape give me trouble, but both of their STAB moves (bar Infernape's Close Combat) are resisted by Heatran, allowing me to bait attacks like Shadow Ball, Fire Blast, Grass Knot, etc...and have Heatran come in for near free (free if Infernape uses Fire Blast). They're both difficult but able to be handled.

Funny how D_A just told me NP / Vacuum Wave / Fire Blast / Grass Knot Ape sweeps me T__T

 

[Syaoran]

CB Scizor is a pokemon that breaks stall. It can heavily dent Starmie and Blissey with Pursuit and use U-turn to scout. Basically what I was saying, U-turn is more important having than CB, because it is after all Scizor's most useful move.. so basically a scizor without it is just a weaker version of another sweeper, Lucario for example, who also benefits from TTar, while having better speed and STAB.

 

[Malicious Metang]

CB Scizor is a pokemon that breaks stall. It can heavily dent Starmie and Blissey with Pursuit and use U-turn to scout. Basically what I was saying, U-turn is more important having than CB, because it is after all Scizor's most useful move.. so basically a scizor without it is just a weaker version of another sweeper, Lucario for example, who also benefits from TTar, while having better speed and STAB.

I can see what you're saying, but I feel you're exaggerating U-turn a tad bit. Scizor usually loses against Blissey (it can U-turn but that lets the stall user find a safe switch, like Forretress), and if it Pursuits it eats a Flamethrower. I can't argue with you because U-turn is a great move to have, although I'm very comfortable with SD Scizor. I've tried Lucario and found it to be less effective for this team. Being able to get by Gengar is massively important due to how vulnerable this team is to it.

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

I think to somewhat ease your Gengar problems you could run a bulky metagross. I had a lot of success with this early Pt.

Metagross@ Leftovers
Evs: 204 HP/80 Atk/224 SDef
Adamant

- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch/Pursuit
- Earthquake/Thunderpunch
- SR

Tpunch is viable for the amount of gyara leads you may come up against but in general EQ is the better option. To ease your Gengar weak use Pursuit even though BP is generally the better option. Even though ths does nothing to ease up on your ground weak, I feel it would fare better against Gengar.