Serena

[DBZ fan]

How i feel about Serena? Until just recently i was disappointed and underwhelmed with her role in main cast. She was highly passive, submissive and reclusive character with no interests, energy and motivation for anything.

Whole point of Serena existence revolved basically around Ash starting her journey because of having feelings for him. Looking for Ash approval over anything he did and overreacting in concern and jealousy over any girl which lashes put eye on him even if its not of romantic nature.

Takes away from her credibility as well; as evidenced in initially baking cookies solely to leave impression on him or becoming disturbed for no reason when Ash sees other girls and comments on them such as super model Aria, giving out impression how she tried herself in shooting mainly because of being driven by desire to get noticed by Ash. I believe my line of thinking is somewhat justified by finding Ash commendation of doing good job in video recording highly important starting to blush at end of episode.

Serena lack of pokemon captures, treating Fennekin like pet never training or having interest to be part of action.

Pretty one dimensional and artificial character interplay with others. Showing nothing but shy, insecure manneurisms, blushing, docile, meek characterization with no emotion. No strife, no variety and depth to her thoughts, expressions and personality made her pretty poor character in first 40 or so episodes.

I mean i understand how writers tried something different with Serena portraying her as character unusure of herself going through selfdoubts and searching of what she wants to be in life. What truly makes her happy and fulfilled as person. Drawing nicely paralell with real life and many of us not having idea as teens, sometime even adults how we feel about ourselves. If current school and job were at is complete miss not making us satisfied, being lost and trying to find ourselves in something where our talents can be freely expreseed.

Problem was that this idea was barely addressed at times until lately with Serena character being mostly consumed by crush for Ash making it seem like thats only point behind her existence and purpose in cast. Slowly starting to erode her credency and indentity as character.


But currently im starting to change my thoughts about Serena not being disappointing. with current direction writers seem to be taking her making me feel more optimistic about her future and role in main cast. Because regardless of my disappointments i didnt gave up on Serena deciding to wait and give chance(i always give chance to every new character regardless of my stance of rather wanting to see writers investing in older replaced companions i grew attached to continuing on started story and personality of someone).

Spoiler:

Summer camp was from looks of it turning point for Serena character. We saw her starting to question what is she doing there. Why she even travels with no destination and dreams to reach? We saw Serena entering various camp activities, battle and work on preparing new videos.

Shauna also left big influence on Serena character in motivating her in considering idea of trying pokemon performing and slowly but surely developing enthusiasm to be of more help to others and try to work on improving herself. With upcoming Pancham capture only reinforcing this. and more exposure in updated pokemon opening ficusing on her feeling lonely lacking incentive, showing her mom and Ryhorn, pokemon idol Aria and Serena reaching for the sun which forebode development of more courage, agency and motivation in making name for herself in future. As well soon enough entering first pokemon performance.
Is coming of as pleasant chain of events hopefully announcing brighter, more relevant days waiting ahead for Serena character.*image removed*

Im only bothered by abit too much focus on stereotype of portraying Serena as domestic wife being interested in sewing, cooking, baking, wearing apron. Focused on pleasing Ash never getting in clash or conflict with him or feeling grumpy. Emphasizing way too much on her girly, shy side. With even upcoming ending which is going to be about Serena announcing to be "Girliest song ever?"

Because it wouldn't hurt that through song writers tried to bring more security and assertiveness in Serena character instead of being portrayed as helpless , subordinate girl who is completely defined by girly characteristics. Running risk of becoming too shallow and one dimensional in longer run.

I strongly Agree with Famon. This is why I wished that Dawn would be a remaining Character like Brock was. Ash and Serena may have past meetings, but that doesn't make their chemistry anymore stronger that it already is. With Dawn, she had a strong connection with Ash.Honestly she could be the Female Ash. I like Serena and all, but she needs somewhat of a purpose or she's going to become a dull unwanted character just like Misty turned out to be.

Misty had purpose.
Helping Ash alot in becoming bertter trainer developing close, meaningful friendship(arguably love feelings as well), had dreams of becoming water pokemon master and strongest water trainer in world reaching E4 level idolizing Lorelei, passion for water types through which she gained her identity and purpose behind living, fears and insecurities to cope with suffering from childhood Gyarados trauma and feeling worthless and inferior to older sisters developing need to prove herself to others(and that journey still isn't over) being strong and tough female which provided good role model of being both feminine and romantic, yet rebellious, assertive and defiant character which is outspoken and knows how to take charge and fight for herself. Something Ash and Brock with time realized as well, especially in late Johto.

Personally i dont think she was stale character at all. Even less unwanted because she still has many fans who consider her to be enjoyablecharacter wanting her back.

With unfinished dreams, unexplored interests and various endearing flaws she has giving potential for unique and fresh storyline through which more unpredictability, originality could be brought to pokemon series.

 

[Famon]

I think Serena being polite isn't the problem !
''Tea Gardner'' is one of the most popular girl in Yugioh series and she hardly argue with Yugi and dueled only twice in the series.
Also Her goal was to be a Dancer ! She barely had anything to do with Dueling.
Yet She is popular .
I think People might like her Tough , Independent , Tomboyish & Sassy personality . Plus , She was the cutest girl in the series .
Not to mention her conflict about liking ether Yugi & Atem .
I think Serena is too passive & Girly ! Plus she seem more Dependent on Ash . Also Her crush on Ash was canonize too soon . This are the fact made Serena boring.

Truth is , Everyone want this side of serena-

Seriously , What happened to her ? She was spunky girl who would attack Fletchling and talk back to her mother !
Is she trying to act Polite to get Ash's attention ? I hate that type of Stupid Shoujo Heroin.
I think People would her interesting if She occasionally get mad at Clemont's bizarre Invention , Had a ''Temper'' to scare off Boys including Bullies and keep stupid Boys in line while also displaying a Kind nature!

 

[janejane6178]

I think Serena being polite isn't the problem !
''Tea Gardner'' is one of the most popular girl in Yugioh series and she hardly argue with Yugi and dueled only twice in the series.
Also Her goal was to be a Dancer ! She barely had anything to do with Dueling.
Yet She is popular .
I think People might like her Tough , Independent , Tomboyish & Sassy personality . Plus , She was the cutest girl in the series .
Not to mention her conflict about liking ether Yugi & Atem .
I think Serena is too passive & Girly ! Plus she seem more Dependent on Ash . Also Her crush on Ash was canonize too soon . This are the fact made Serena boring.

Truth is , Everyone want this side of serena-

Seriously , What happened to her ? She was spunky girl who would attack Fletchling and talk back to her mother !
Is she trying to act Polite to get Ash's attention ? I hate that type of Stupid Shoujo Heroin.
I think People would her interesting if She occasionally get mad at Clemont's bizarre Invention , Had a ''Temper'' to scare off Boys including Bullies and keep stupid Boys in line while also displaying a Kind nature!

I also think that this behaviour of serena could be nice and more interesting but you're fogetting that we already had this kind of characters before: misty and iris.
I do think tho that serena is way too passive and indifferent.

 

[precita]

Serena is basically a repeat of what May was in early Hoenn, just taken to absurd extremes. Whereas May and Serena both started off similarly of not knowing what to do, May actually got into battling fairly quickly (her first battle is the 4th episode of AG and she tries to capture an Azurill in her second episode), while Serena didn't battle a trainer until 40 episodes in, and doesn't make a capture for her whole first year.

Other than that, Serena's very girly and feminine and resembles Dawn in that regard too. She's easily the girliest and most feminine character on the cast, and her crush on Ash is her only defining characteristic.

 

[Wobbu]

I wouldn't complain about how Clemont and Bonnie are getting so many episodes and Serena isn't, either. At least, not in the same conversation as Serena's goals. They've been the focus of some episodes too, but do you see them achieving any particular goal right now? They still seem to just be with Ash to travel around—which would put them in the same boat as Brock, Tracey, Max, Iris and Cilan.

I just find it strange that Clemont and Bonnie are both receiving more attention than Serena. Even though the two aren't actively pursuing something (especially Bonnie), they still have interests that are displayed every few episodes. Even if Serena chooses not to pursue a goal, it would be nice if her character was expanded upon by repeatedly showing off her interests. We've seen a few of her interests, including Rhyhorn racing, creating PR videos, and baking, but they've never been expanded upon. We've only been introduced to her interests while not digging any deeper. With Clemont, we see quite often his interest in science and innovation. With Bonnie, we see quite often her adoration for cute Pokémon and interests in growing up. With Serena, we see a little of everything, but not a lot of every individual interest.

Spoiler:

Shauna also left big influence on Serena character in motivating her in considering idea of trying pokemon performing and slowly but surely developing enthusiasm to be of more help to others and try to work on improving herself. With upcoming Pancham capture only reinforcing this. and more exposure in updated pokemon opening ficusing on her feeling lonely lacking incentive, showing her mom and Ryhorn, pokemon idol Aria and Serena reaching for the sun which forebode development of more courage, agency and motivation in making name for herself in future. As well soon enough entering first pokemon performance.
Is coming of as pleasant chain of events hopefully announcing brighter, more relevant days waiting ahead for Serena character.*image removed*

I haven't watched the Summer Camp arc yet, so I could be wrong on some things. However, I find it strange how Serena becomes more interested in something that she was recently introduced to rather than the things she's been interested in for a while. It makes you wonder why we witnessed her older interests. It could be because that's how the writers wanted to show off some of the new mechanics from the X and Y games (riding on a Rhyhorn, PR videos, etc.), but I'm curious as to why we saw Serena practicing her Rhyhorn racing skills in the first few episodes.

 

[precita]

I just find it strange that Clemont and Bonnie are both receiving more attention than Serena.

Perhaps the female lead is taking a backseat this time around in a Brock-type role. Brock always got the least amount of screentime in every group he was in, and the females always got the most after Ash.

With Iris and Cilan it was almost equal balance, however this time Clemont/Bonnie might get more than Serena. Since the little sibling is related to the male this time around (unlike Max who was related to May), Serena doesn't get those sibling moments beyond the few scenes she cares for Bonnie in. Since the female lead is always supposed to relate to little girls watching Pokemon, it is strange to see the writers purposely not writing her as much more than a love interest.

 

[DBZ fan]

I haven't watched the Summer Camp arc yet, so I could be wrong on some things. However, I find it strange how Serena becomes more interested in something that she was recently introduced to rather than the things she's been interested in for a while. It makes you wonder why we witnessed her older interests. It could be because that's how the writers wanted to show off some of the new mechanics from the X and Y games (riding on a Rhyhorn, PR videos, etc.), but I'm curious as to why we saw Serena practicing her Rhyhorn racing skills in the first few episodes.

Spoiler:

Actually Tripokalon/pokemon performer career Serena showed interest in Summer camp arc, contains pokevision video as one of categories partcipants need to create and deliver. As part of
Tripokalon tournaments involving various random activities girl with pokemon do on stage.
Although it kind of gives sexist vibe in boys not being allowed to participate in such kind of competitions limiting competition, appeal and humorous scenes presence of both genders has capacity to generate as well variety in seeing how would male handle this type of challenges. Being harder to make themselves cute and gracious than its case with girls.

So Serena interest in making pokevision videos in pleasing others and seeing how succesful she can be with pokemon in making film together could be said to be extended through Shauna debit. When introducing concept of pokemon performer to Serena.

Which while not set in stone is something Serens is pondering of doing becoming eventualy her dream. In which she wants to invest time, energy and dedication of accpomplishing and becoming succesful, recognized by others in this branch.

Ryhorn racing was in reality never among Serena interest. She openly showed dislike and indignation toward this sport. Disliking getting dirty, how uncomfortable and hard riding Rhyhorn can be.

Complaining and hating when Grace pushed her to train in becoming succesful racer just like her family is at this sport. Granted Serena did showed in 7th episode after official Rhyhorn race and affection this pokemon showed toward her how she may have been misunderstood this competition. But she still dont have interest in becoming Rhyhorn racer wanting to find and disciver herself in something which she truly enjoys and feels comfortable of doing. With no pressure and telling what she should do, like her mother tried out with Rhyhorn sport only making here start developing negative feelings and misconceptions about it.

Which can happen to any of us if we are by force pushed in doing something ruining potential enjoyment out of it.

With participation in cooking and preparing poke puffs, pokevision etc afterwards being part of that journey and soul searching in discovering herself.

Spoiler:

Although not as much addressed until lately due to writers not expanding on anything beside crush and interest for Ash for first 40 episodes with Summer camp episodes starting to be turning point for her.

Which i suppose was point behind passiveness and lack of any motivation, since in Summer camp episodes Serena finally started to recollect on her journey questioning why she joined Ash and co, why she travels when not having ahything to strive toward and ultimately where she belongs. Serving as wake up call for her.

p.s. My apologies for not putting spoiler tag in previous post. Didnt realized certain episodes i talked about havent been aired in dub yet.

 

[Wobbu]

Perhaps the female lead is taking a backseat this time around in a Brock-type role. Brock always got the least amount of screentime in every group he was in, and the females always got the most after Ash.

With Iris and Cilan it was almost equal balance, however this time Clemont/Bonnie might get more than Serena. Since the little sibling is related to the male this time around (unlike Max who was related to May), Serena doesn't get those sibling moments beyond the few scenes she cares for Bonnie in. Since the female lead is always supposed to relate to little girls watching Pokemon, it is strange to see the writers purposely not writing her as much more than a love interest.

That may be the current scenario, but I don't expect this to last for the rest of the season. If the writers do decide to put Serena in the backseat and give more focus to Clemont and Bonnie, then I'd be fine with it because it would be a good change of pace. However, I really can't see Serena staying like this for the rest of the season because she's too subtle. With Brock, Cilan, and the others, they all developed immediately and made a strong presence early in their series. With Serena, I think her development will grow exponentially, which I think is the reason why it hasn't been growing a lot during the beginning of the XY series.

 

[Famon]

Even Bonnie has better personality then Serena !!!!

 

[Wobbu]

Even Bonnie has better personality then Serena !!!!

But do you think that's bad or good? Imo both Bonnie and Serena have great personalities.

 

[Famon]

If Ash was treated like a crazy Smart protagonist who drive other nut with his Irrational & Childish behavior then Serena would work out as a Good straight-man who tries to keep Ash on line.
Example , Sharlock Homes & Waston , Arata & Lilith (Trinity Seven) , Harata & Mitsumi (Pokemon DPA) , Luffty & Numi (One Piece)
But this Show make Ash act like a Polite Gentleman and Serena like his fangirl.
So Serena can't act like the Straght-man unless Ash does something Irrational & Childish.
The only way to fix it , Ash has to do various Irrational & Childish thing While Serena getting angry at him and keep him on line . The chemistry between them will never work out if Ash is a Gentleman and Serena is a Fangirl.

PS : Doing Irrational & Childish thing doesn't make anyone Stupid or Incompetent ! Character like Sharlock Homes , Arata (Trinity Seven) , Luffty (One Piece) etc does a lot of Irrational thing which turn out to be the smartest move .

But do you think that's bad or good? Imo both Bonnie and Serena have great personalities.

Bonnie doesn't have Big Goal and She keep her Brother Pokemon. Its prove that Serena's problem has nothing to do with her not having a Goal .
Serena does not need a Goal , She needs a Role !!!
How did Misty got Popular without a stable Goal for 104 episode ?
Easy , She did her role of keeping Ash & Brock in Line

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Bonnie doesn't have Big Goal and She keep her Brother Pokemon. Its prove that Serena's problem has nothing to do with her not having a Goal .
Serena does not need a Goal , She needs a Role !!!
How did Misty got Popular without a stable Goal for 104 episode ?
Easy , She did her role of keeping Ash & Brock in Line

Technically, even in Kanto, Misty did have a stable goal. Sure, it didn't have a name, but her general descriptions did make very clear that her goal was basically to catch water-types, or at least Pokémon with some association with water, and grow stronger with them, to prove to her sisters at Cerulean Gym, a Water-type Gym.

Besides, technically, Ash didn't have a "stable goal" until, what, DP? When they actually gave somewhat of a description of what a Pokémon Master actually is and how to actually accomplish it?

 

[Famon]

Technically, even in Kanto, Misty did have a stable goal. Sure, it didn't have a name, but her general descriptions did make very clear that her goal was basically to catch water-types, or at least Pokémon with some association with water, and grow stronger with them, to prove to her sisters at Cerulean Gym, a Water-type Gym.

Yet She tried to catch an Oddish , Farfetch'd , Jigglepuff and Clefariy!!
Furthermore , First she said she want to be best at everything and second time she say she want to learn about Water Pokemon.
Her goal was different everytime anyone ask .
We know that Her goal has something to do with Water Pokemon however it could mean a lot of thing . Such as

-Becoming a Water Pokemon Researcher

Or

-Gain Knowledge & Experience to be strongest Cerulean Gym-Leader

Or

-Seeing most Majestic & Legendary Water Pokemon

There never was a clear explanation until in Jotho where Misty finally declare her goal to be water Pokemon Master.
Honestly , Until then she just blindly followed Ash around.

Besides, technically, Ash didn't have a "stable goal" until, what, DP? When they actually gave somewhat of a description of what a Pokémon Master actually is and how to actually accomplish it?

Well , It was already clear that Ash has get 8 badge and win the League to fight E4 .

 

[DBZ fan]

Not trying to start debate. But in regars to Misty; she already in Kanto stated how her love and passion are water pokemon wanting to show world how beautiful and majestic this specie can be. She said she wants to become stronget water trainer in world learning everything she can about them. When meeting E4 Lorelei in Orange Islands i recall Misty fangirling over her saying she is her idol. Planning to become that strong like her one day.

I cannot recall first time term water pokemon master was brought up(either at end of Kanto, Orange or beginning of Johto).
But prior to official confirmation it was pretty obvious how Misty wanted to become powerful and renowned water specialist in world. Learning about secrets and true nature of pokemon making name for herself wanting to be noticed and respected as perso and trainer, which was one of reasons behind leaving gym and starting to travel.

Additionally some could say she wanted to gain Ash interest too, seeming to develop love feelings for main protagonist. Which soils ground for pretty meaningful, deeper and dynamic interaction if she ever meets Serena.

Either way, i do wander how far and in what way Serena affection for Ash character currently will go. She obvious has feelings for him, even though Ash doesnt notice it or is too clueless to take hint. But i do wander if her character will either with time come to conclusion how she is wasting her time growing out of crush. Try to be more straightforward in capturing Ash interest or develop affection for some other male eventually leading toward her exit once 7th generation comes around.

That is unless writers pull of completely unexpected twist breaking past patterns and letting Serena continue traveling with Ash in next generation as well building up on her character, personality, dreams and storyine.

Which if done well and in believable way i wouldnt mind in slightest.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Well , It was already clear that Ash has get 8 badge and win the League to fight E4 .

Actually, no it wasn't. Fighting the Elite 4 as a prerequisite to becoming a Pokémon Master wasn't even mentioned at all until late DP (It certainly wasn't mentioned during the Indigo League). The rest of the time the Elite 4 had cameos, all they were mentioned as being known as really skilled renowned trainers. It literally wasn't until Flint's explanation of what a Pokémon Master was that we even got any indication that Ash actually had to fight them. For all we knew, Ash had to just win a league, heck, maybe get every single datapoint in the Pokedex, maybe beat the Battle Frontier or collect all Pokémon in the world, even becoming literally unbeatable (since that was actually mentioned as being what a Pokémon Master was in the first movie where Mewtwo came into the picture and was explicitly referred to as such), it was that ambiguous before DP. In fact, it was actually (and ironically) contradicted by the fact that Ash won the Orange League and even beat the Frontier Brains, the latter of whom, at least in the Emerald guidebook, mentioned were stronger than the Elite 4. Heck, it was arguably even more ambiguous than Misty's goal. The only definite thing we knew about it before DP is that it involved collecting eight badges. That's it.

And I'd comment on your response to Misty, but DBZ Fan took care of that.

 

[Famon]

The bottom line is , Ash must stop being a Gentleman toward Serena . While Serena must stop acting like Ash's Fangirl.
Ash doesn't need a girl that follow him around saying ''Ash is so Great ,Ash is So amazing , Ash is incredible , I want to marry Ash , I want to be person fit for Ash , I want to give my everything to Ash''
Ash need a girl that will treat Ash like Ash ! Nothing else.
For example , Misty loved & Admired Ash but she never acted like his Fan-girl ! She never consider changing herself for Ash and She never afraid that she has to be nice to him or else he will dump her.
Thats Why Misty is better then Serena.
I want a relationship where Ash freely tease Serena and make her Mad While Serena shouting & Scolding Ash without fearing he might dump her.

Actually, no it wasn't. Fighting the Elite 4 as a prerequisite to becoming a Pokémon Master wasn't even mentioned at all until late DP (It certainly wasn't mentioned during the Indigo League). The rest of the time the Elite 4 had cameos, all they were mentioned as being known as really skilled renowned trainers. It literally wasn't until Flint's explanation of what a Pokémon Master was that we even got any indication that Ash actually had to fight them. For all we knew, Ash had to just win a league, heck, maybe get every single datapoint in the Pokedex, maybe beat the Battle Frontier or collect all Pokémon in the world, even becoming literally unbeatable (since that was actually mentioned as being what a Pokémon Master was in the first movie where Mewtwo came into the picture and was explicitly referred to as such), it was that ambiguous before DP. In fact, it was actually (and ironically) contradicted by the fact that Ash won the Orange League and even beat the Frontier Brains, the latter of whom, at least in the Emerald guidebook, mentioned were stronger than the Elite 4. Heck, it was arguably even more ambiguous than Misty's goal. The only definite thing we knew about it before DP is that it involved collecting eight badges. That's it.

And I'd comment on your response to Misty, but DBZ Fan took care of that.

Then Why Ash waste time on collecting Badge for Pokemon League for 20 year if it doesn't have anything to do with becoming Pokemon Master ?
It was proven back then that being Pokemon Master has a connection with Winning the League long before DP.

Not trying to start debate. But in regars to Misty; she already in Kanto stated how her love and passion are water pokemon wanting to show world how beautiful and majestic this specie can be. She said she wants to become stronget water trainer in world learning everything she can about them. When meeting E4 Lorelei in Orange Islands i recall Misty fangirling over her saying she is her idol. Planning to become that strong like her one day.

I cannot recall first time term water pokemon master was brought up(either at end of Kanto, Orange or beginning of Johto).
But prior to official confirmation it was pretty obvious how Misty wanted to become powerful and renowned water specialist in world. Learning about secrets and true nature of pokemon making name for herself wanting to be noticed and respected as perso and trainer, which was one of reasons behind leaving gym and starting to travel.

Additionally some could say she wanted to gain Ash interest too, seeming to develop love feelings for main protagonist. Which soils ground for pretty meaningful, deeper and dynamic interaction if she ever meets Serena.

Either way, i do wander how far and in what way Serena affection for Ash character currently will go. She obvious has feelings for him, even though Ash doesnt notice it or is too clueless to take hint. But i do wander if her character will either with time come to conclusion how she is wasting her time growing out of crush. Try to be more straightforward in capturing Ash interest or develop affection for some other male eventually leading toward her exit once 7th generation comes around.

That is unless writers pull of completely unexpected twist breaking past patterns and letting Serena continue traveling with Ash in next generation as well building up on her character, personality, dreams and storyine.

Which if done well and in believable way i wouldnt mind in slightest.

I watch & rewatch Original series thank to Hungama TV .
So , I know Misty goal could have anything based on Water Pokemon that time.
She might wanted to be better Water Pokemon Gym-Leader Or Researcher & Collector , Anything .
She reveal her goal at Jotho . It was the episode where Ash caught Totodile.

 

[DBZ fan]

I watch & rewatch Original series thank to Hungama TV .
So , I know Misty goal could have anything based on Water Pokemon that time.
She might wanted to be better Water Pokemon Gym-Leader Or Researcher & Collector , Anything .
She reveal her goal at Jotho . It was the episode where Ash caught Totodile.

It wasnt anything. Its reliably known Misty had no interest in going back to gym . Or being pokemon researcher. She might not had stated how she wants to become water pokemon master right away. But her goal was revolved on bsttling, training, being in competitive scene and had flare, big competitive spark in wanting to learn everything she can and achieve perfect level of understanding learning ins and out of water pokemon.

Misty fantasized about meeting legendary and mysterious water specie catching it and understanding their secrets. She idolized E4 members wanting to reach that level of power creep and wanted to become one of strongest water trainers ever known to exist in poke world.

Your right, she didnt stated right away what is her dream officially., But based on her interests, battling spirit and personal, desires,claims i think it indicates what kind of position, recognition she wanted to achieve.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Then Why Ash waste time on collecting Badge for Pokemon League for 20 year if it doesn't have anything to do with becoming Pokemon Master ?
It was proven back then that being Pokemon Master has a connection with Winning the League long before DP.

That's why I specifically stated that the only thing definitely confirmed about becoming a Pokémon Master was getting Gym Badges. It still wasn't explicitly confirmed that he had to fight Elite 4 Members in Kanto, or in Johto or Hoenn to become a Pokémon Master. Only DP/Sinnoh outright confirmed that. Before then, the only thing confirmed about the goal was that Ash had to win a regional league, and even that was conflicted with Ash winning a league, the Orange Islands League, and yet he was still continuing on his journey despite not even needing a reason to continue under the definition of winning a league, not to mention winning the Battle Frontier which was arguably even better than winning a league or against the Elite 4 and thus making even continuing the journey completely unnecessary.

And BTW, Mewtwo was explicitly referred to as the World's Greatest Pokémon Master in the first movie, and proved it by trouncing everyone, giving the implication that a Pokémon Master was someone who was unbeatable in battle, sort of like the mythical black knight.

And there were also some hints that a Pokémon Master meant collecting every single Pokémon out there.

Heck, Bulbapedia even mentions the debatability of what the definition was in the Pokémon Master article. It wasn't until Diamond and Pearl that we even got something even resembling a specific, air-tight definition, especially when before then, it was kept largely ambiguous outside of collecting gym badges.

 

[Famon]

That's why I specifically stated that the only thing definitely confirmed about becoming a Pokémon Master was getting Gym Badges. It still wasn't explicitly confirmed that he had to fight Elite 4 Members in Kanto, or in Johto or Hoenn to become a Pokémon Master. Only DP/Sinnoh outright confirmed that. Before then, the only thing confirmed about the goal was that Ash had to win a regional league, and even that was conflicted with Ash winning a league, the Orange Islands League, and yet he was still continuing on his journey despite not even needing a reason to continue under the definition of winning a league, not to mention winning the Battle Frontier which was arguably even better than winning a league or against the Elite 4 and thus making even continuing the journey completely unnecessary.

And BTW, Mewtwo was explicitly referred to as the World's Greatest Pokémon Master in the first movie, and proved it by trouncing everyone, giving the implication that a Pokémon Master was someone who was unbeatable in battle, sort of like the mythical black knight.

And there were also some hints that a Pokémon Master meant collecting every single Pokémon out there.

Heck, Bulbapedia even mentions the debatability of what the definition was in the Pokémon Master article. It wasn't until Diamond and Pearl that we even got something even resembling a specific, air-tight definition, especially when before then, it was kept largely ambiguous outside of collecting gym badges.

However , We do knew that Ash has win a Real League !
But none of us didn't even knew What Misty suppose to do ! She didn't even knew about that water Pokemon Tournament in Jotho .
She just followed Ash around.

It wasnt anything. Its reliably known Misty had no interest in going back to gym . Or being pokemon researcher. She might not had stated how she wants to become water pokemon master right away. But her goal was revolved on bsttling, training, being in competitive scene and had flare, big competitive spark in wanting to learn everything she can and achieve perfect level of understanding learning ins and out of water pokemon.

Misty fantasized about meeting legendary and mysterious water specie catching it and understanding their secrets. She idolized E4 members wanting to reach that level of power creep and wanted to become one of strongest water trainers ever known to exist in poke world.

Your right, she didnt stated right away what is her dream officially., But based on her interests, battling spirit and personal, desires,claims i think it indicates what kind of position, recognition she wanted to achieve.

No , Misty had no interested in Leaving Ash ! Her sister mention that she vowed to come back when she become stronger .
Which make it look like she wanted to grow into a stronger Gym-Leader.
And Misty is interested in Learning & Knowing everything about Water Pokemon which indicate she might want to be a Water Pokemon researcher .
Her desire to meeting & catching Legendary & Mysterious Water pokemon indicate collector.
So Misty goal could it been anything based on Water Pokemon .
As for her comparative nature , We can't expect anything less from a Gym-Leader.
Most important of all
Why are we discussing Misty in Serena Thread ????

 

[DBZ fan]

No , Misty had no interested in Leaving Ash ! Her sister mention that she vowed to come back when she become stronger .
Which make it look like she wanted to grow into a stronger Gym-Leader.
And Misty is interested in Learning & Knowing everything about Water Pokemon which indicate she might want to be a Water Pokemon researcher .
Her desire to meeting & catching Legendary & Mysterious Water pokemon indicate collector.
So Misty goal could it been anything based on Water Pokemon .
As for her comparative nature , We can't expect anything less from a Gym-Leader.
Most important of all
Why are we discussing Misty in Serena Thread ????

Which means Misty vowed not to come back home until she accomplish her goals. If she was interested in coming back to Cerulean any sooner she wouldn't be upset and annoyed over having to leave Ash and Brock in "Gotta Catch Ya Later". Wanting to stick around, explore new regions. New pokemon and accomplish her goals of becoming water pokemkn master(strongest water trainer in world).

Only reason she left was because of gym being in danger of shut down returning back out of obligation and older sisters incompetence.

Misty was already Cerulean gym leder before she even met Ash. That was stated numerous times in original series(third movie, Totodile duel, in Kanto) not showing even remote interest for this position. But even before term water master was used she clearly showed to have much higher interests than being better gym leader. Otherwise she wouldnt idolized E4 Lorelei wanting to become strong and renowned like her one day. She wouldn't express desire several times of wanting to become strongest water trainer in world showing world how elegant and powerful this type can be.

Since water master involves becoming top water trainer in world with E4 members being classified as type masters according to bulbapedia,. Followed with Whirl Cup showing connection to them.
It can be deduced how plan of master water type was Misty plan from very start.

p.s. I had no intention of discussing Misty which was brought up by someone else and i apologize for being part of it. In fact i would be perfectly fine in stopping from my part talking about it in inappropriate thread like this, only replying back to posts directed toward me defending what i said.

So maybe it would be wiser if we continue with this talk through PM (private messages) in case you wish to continue?