[Released] Stygian Snakewood, a Pokémon Snakewood remake

[Curleh]

# NEW PATCH 0.5.3

- Vanilla has been renamed to Normal. It's probably too far away from the original game to be considered Vanilla.

- Normal mode has been somewhat nerfed up to Laura (Normal-type trainer). Minor changes here and there could be done as well.

- A certain Pokémon line has been adjusted, this could be seen as a nerf to an infamous fight.

- Zombie trainers now have more a diverse roster of undead Pokémon.

- Fixed a bug that allowed you to skip Zabulon.

- Minor dialogue changes and flavour text (also foreshadowing).

- Growlithe's sprite has been fixed.

- Slightly updated Roteen sprite.

FULL: https://mega.nz/file/GaBxhJJB#e6M9gi9EYq-rZiXFvY3ETMzzSTJny7YPKrs9oIKWuFo

PATCH: https://mega.nz/file/SH5GmRiS#EL7OVLmLe-_-651GXT0Q--4aldaNUFJJXzS4yfMTHSI



Most likely, I gave up trying to update the game for Essentials 21 because it would mean giving up the more consistent AI.

https://strawpoll.com/B2ZB9RER7gJ anyway a small poll about wooper for the 0.6 update. a dev blog should be coming this week.

Wooper Quagsire are underwhelming because you gave everything HP Grass

 

[Curleh]

Hey, I gotta do some some sort of announcement I guess if just to actually say I'm not ignoring feedback. There should be a patch relatively soon that addresses some issues and I'm personally sorry for all the mess that happened, there are some actually important points to be considered hidden amongst all the rambling and it would be a disservice to simply turn a blind eye to it. However I still have to set some things clear: The actually formula, development method and gameplay of Stygian Snakewood will NOT be changed. Despite the issues and unsatisfaction presented here the gameplay changes were overall a success with a relatively high rate of approval, there isn't anything wrong really with "Vanilla" and Lunatic having the same mechanics, they're still supposed to be part of the same game.

Of course "Vanilla" mode needs some overhaul, specially the early game that was made so long ago when I was a lot less experienced and back when Lunatic Mode was the sole mode, once again I need to say that Stygian Snakewood had its roots as a difficulty mod of the original Snakewood that grew out of control, I would have never expected it to turn into a full-blown remake with a lot of redesigns and that I've promoted other projects in case you are disappointed with this one.

And the overall sentiment popping up here that "this is a demo and everything should be changed" can be a bit of a disingenuous one, surely a lot of stuff can be changed but it would be still a lot of work with relatively low reward, I'm still the only developer responsible for all the maps, coding, balancing and battles (and some sprites) and that's quite time consuming, reworking it from scratch to please some people while to annoy others is not plausible. Furthermore I'm at this point kinda doing the most I can, I've been dedicating most hours of every single day of my Univeristy break to this free project (it should end on the 14th, then I'll probably have barely any time for anything).

"Of course "Vanilla" mode needs some overhaul, specially the early game that was made so long ago when I was a lot less experienced and back when Lunatic Mode was the sole mode, once again I need to say that Stygian Snakewood had its roots as a difficulty mod of the original Snakewood that grew out of control, I would have never expected it to turn into a full-blown remake with a lot of redesigns and that I've promoted other projects in case you are disappointed with this one."


I appreciate the acknowledgment around the early game. I think I'm going to try the new changes and give you some feedback on it and what else could be changed and see when the game becomes too much in terms of "difficulty"

 

[Curleh]

Nah im over this….every mon that has hidden power should have it removed. There's no reason to put a HP on a mon just to give it MORE coverage than it already has. Look at the documentation for Run and Bun…..fighting a mon that can't be walled by anything isn't fun.

 

[Lucifer]

I am in Slateport and to be honest, I can see what people are complaining about.

While, granted I remember the original Snakewood having a somewhat ridiculous difficulty, I swear the AI in this one knows what I am coming into the battle with and has something for it.

Everything has a super effective Hidden Power, everything has a ground move rendering electric types kind of useless and there is even some stupid stuff like an Alolan Meowth with Ariel Ace. The former chefs are also proving annoying with heal spamming.

Don't get me wrong I am enjoying the game regardless but I feel like this is a bit excessive especially since my team right now is already kind of ass.
I know type advantages are not everything, I watched the anime hehe, but it feels as though type advantages are nearly completely valueless in this game.

 

[A¹¹]

I am in Slateport and to be honest, I can see what people are complaining about.

While, granted I remember the original Snakewood having a somewhat ridiculous difficulty, I swear the AI in this one knows what I am coming into the battle with and has something for it.

Everything has a super effective Hidden Power, everything has a ground move rendering electric types kind of useless and there is even some stupid stuff like an Alolan Meowth with Ariel Ace. The former chefs are also proving annoying with heal spamming.

Don't get me wrong I am enjoying the game regardless but I feel like this is a bit excessive especially since my team right now is already kind of ass.
I know type advantages are not everything, I watched the anime hehe, but it feels as though type advantages are nearly completely valueless in this game.

yeah sorry I admit these battles kinda suffer a bit from "what the hell do I give this thing as a 4th slot?" trying to design difficulty in a way that is both fun to do and to play is kinda tough and in the end it resembles much more other Essentials fan-games in terms of difficulty than snakewood or other romhacks so if you're more used to those you're having an easier time (as a consolation prize you can indeed get hidden power yourself by doing the little sidequest with the normal trainer and her boyfriend in dewford)

anyway dev blog this week

 

[Beagers]

So as I was about to record for another episode i came to realize i cant even level up my pokemon anymore on wild pokemon it has to be a zombie or trainer am i doing something wrong they are only 2 levels below me with me being at level 10 and them at level 8.

I know the exp is different but if this is the case makes it a bit tough to continue moving forward.

 

[A¹¹]

So as I was about to record for another episode i came to realize i cant even level up my pokemon anymore on wild pokemon it has to be a zombie or trainer am i doing something wrong they are only 2 levels below me with me being at level 10 and them at level 8.

I know the exp is different but if this is the case makes it a bit tough to continue moving forward.

yeah this is kinda why I said the game is very nuzlocke-unfriendly, early game is definitely a bit rough since you usually can only get exp by blacking out to Zabulon. Vanilla/Normal mode had an innate Exp Boost that I removed a while ago but with enough feedback it could be re-added.

 

[Curleh]

So as I was about to record for another episode i came to realize i cant even level up my pokemon anymore on wild pokemon it has to be a zombie or trainer am i doing something wrong they are only 2 levels below me with me being at level 10 and them at level 8.

I know the exp is different but if this is the case makes it a bit tough to continue moving forward.

you gain 0 exp if the wild mon is 2 levels lower its REALLY bad exp design....its something like 50% extra per level of different that scales. So its really quick to level up TO the level that they are at, but to surpass their level is basically impossible meaning you have to move forward and lose the following battle in order to actually level to be able to beat said battle, without even considered having the team to beat the battle itself

 

[Curleh]

yeah sorry I admit these battles kinda suffer a bit from "what the hell do I give this thing as a 4th slot?" trying to design difficulty in a way that is both fun to do and to play is kinda tough and in the end it resembles much more other Essentials fan-games in terms of difficulty than snakewood or other romhacks so if you're more used to those you're having an easier time (as a consolation prize you can indeed get hidden power yourself by doing the little sidequest with the normal trainer and her boyfriend in dewford)

anyway dev blog this week

"what the hell do i give this thing as a 4th slot" should not be your concern....just look over the movesets of the original game and copy those movesets and maybe add one or two things here and there to make it a little different, because I know back in the day some movesets/movepools were really bad. Not every enemy needs to be given perfect coverage, or things that make X type completely obselete (looking at your ass Wooper). Sure its fun to have a slightly smarter AI that doesnt click "Taunt" or "String Shot" 4 times in a row, but having an AI that knows your entire team and items and has a moveset to beat your entire team isnt a fun way to play.

 

[Curleh]

yeah this is kinda why I said the game is very nuzlocke-unfriendly, early game is definitely a bit rough since you usually can only get exp by blacking out to Zabulon. Vanilla/Normal mode had an innate Exp Boost that I removed a while ago but with enough feedback it could be re-added.

A game not being "nuzlocke friendly" isnt an excuse for bad balancing. Most games, including extreme difficulty hacks like RadicalRed or Run and Bun or Kaizo games are balanced around a few things.

One is the level curve and enemy pokemon strength.

The trainers before a gym leader or "boss" fight are typically of lower level because they're supposed to be the build up for the boss fight. If the game ALWAYS matches your levels, then EVERY fight in the game will feel like a boss fight.

Two is the tools given to the player at any particular split and Three is movesets. This is mostly referring to EARLY to MID game because later mid into lategame the movesets are usually very manageable.


Pre Evolved Pokemon and their movesets are VERY important for balancing. The entire point of a "cheated" pre evolved pokemon is to add a pokemon that is more BULKY and harder to one shot. They typically are given moves that do the SAME damage as their pre-evos would at that level. For instance, a Stomp from a Whismur and a Pound from a Loudred will do around the same damage, but the Loudred is way bulkier than the Whismur is, so its harder to take down without completely overwhelming the player.

With regards to moveset balancing, take the Houndsour in the forest. With a moveset including Bite Flame Burst (not sure if this was the move before the patch) Thunder Fang and Hidden Power Grass there is basically no counter. If you have a Wooper to take the fire move you get blown away by HP grass. Its a pokemon with 330 BST against a pokemon with 210 BST, so Wooper isnt even going to beat it even if it doesnt have HP grass, because Bite DESTROYS it in 3 shots the same as the Wooper hitting the Houndour with Water Gun. However, if you give the Houndour Pursuit instead of Bite its now weaker and more "balanced" to the level of the Wooper AT THAT POINT IN TIME. If you come up against another Houndour later, they can have Bite, because at that time you have more tools as the player (early evolutions and such). It's the entire reason why there are "early" "mid" and "late" game pokemon. A pokemon like beautifly with 100 Sp Atk is a gigantic power spike for the player during the early game which falls off SO QUICKLY because everything else catches up to it. Now imagine having a Giga Drain beautifly at the start of the game instead of having Absorb. Beautifly has 385 BST (or 55 more than Houndour) but you cant even evolve into it for the fight. Due to typing, Houndour has a good matchup into the "better statted" beautifly and has an extreme advantage over the Wooper.


I saw that you had a poll about buffing Wooper. I don't think it needs a buff at all I think the game needs to be built around the tools that you are given. Nerf the fights Wooper should be good into so Wooper can actually win.

 

[commander218]

So as I was about to record for another episode i came to realize i cant even level up my pokemon anymore on wild pokemon it has to be a zombie or trainer am i doing something wrong they are only 2 levels below me with me being at level 10 and them at level 8.

I know the exp is different but if this is the case makes it a bit tough to continue moving forward.

You're not doing anything wrong. Stygian Snakewood takes a little getting used to that grinding is the worst way to go about it. The best way is when you want to add a new mon to your party, is to add it immediately and let it level up in the back since low level Pokemon get a massive boost in experience while higher level Pokemon gain less (pretty much a rubber band system). As long as you can at least KO some mons on the fight you're stuck at, your team will eventually level up enough to beat them as losing does not have any consequences.

I do remember having some issues with what you're having as grinding on wild Pokemon feels like the game goes to a screeching halt as you barely level up. And that is a problem.

---------------------------------------------

A game not being "nuzlocke friendly" isnt an excuse for bad balancing. Most games, including extreme difficulty hacks like RadicalRed or Run and Bun or Kaizo games are balanced around a few things.

I've held my tongue, but this is now starting to get ridiculous. You've stated your criticisms and it's already been acknowledged and a response has already been made. You are very insistent these changes get made and keep giving different reasonings...which to me still looks like it's based around the first couple areas of the game. Maybe your suggestions would help the start of the game, at the cost of the rest of the game being unfun. There's a number of things to consider and they will be before changes are made. It just takes time and testing.

As for the houndsour, I honestly don't even remember it that much and it probably would have been scrapped or changed had it not been brought up. At this point, you've kind of cemented it onto the team and made sure it stays. Probably completely unchanged as that fight is supposed to make a big impression.

 

[Curleh]

You're not doing anything wrong. Stygian Snakewood takes a little getting used to that grinding is the worst way to go about it. The best way is when you want to add a new mon to your party, is to add it immediately and let it level up in the back since low level Pokemon get a massive boost in experience while higher level Pokemon gain less (pretty much a rubber band system). As long as you can at least KO some mons on the fight you're stuck at, your team will eventually level up enough to beat them as losing does not have any consequences.

I do remember having some issues with what you're having as grinding on wild Pokemon feels like the game goes to a screeching halt as you barely level up. And that is a problem.

---------------------------------------------




I've held my tongue, but this is now starting to get ridiculous. You've stated your criticisms and it's already been acknowledged and a response has already been made. You are very insistent these changes get made and keep giving different reasonings...which to me still looks like it's based around the first couple areas of the game. Maybe your suggestions would help the start of the game, at the cost of the rest of the game being unfun. There's a number of things to consider and they will be before changes are made. It just takes time and testing.

As for the houndsour, I honestly don't even remember it that much and it probably would have been scrapped or changed had it not been brought up. At this point, you've kind of cemented it onto the team and made sure it stays. Probably completely unchanged as that fight is supposed to make a big impression.

so now you're just petty? do you know what "cemented" it onto the team? the fact that its in the ORIGINAL GAME

"scrapped or changed had it not been brought up".....why in the name of our lord Arceus.....did you release a test beta and ask for criticism? you basically said "roast it" and got butthurt when it got roasted

 

[Priest Helix]

I'm going to chime in again, I really don't like the exp system. I've made arguments for why I think it takes away from the game and don't feel the need to do anything else. I just don't like it.



But what if we gave Lunatic Famine a suicide lead Gorelax with Normal gem Swords Dance -> Explosion? It would be funny I promise.

 

[Lucifer]

yeah sorry I admit these battles kinda suffer a bit from "what the hell do I give this thing as a 4th slot?" trying to design difficulty in a way that is both fun to do and to play is kinda tough and in the end it resembles much more other Essentials fan-games in terms of difficulty than snakewood or other romhacks so if you're more used to those you're having an easier time (as a consolation prize you can indeed get hidden power yourself by doing the little sidequest with the normal trainer and her boyfriend in dewford)

anyway dev blog this week

Respect dude. Big respect to all the hard work going into this game.

Question: is the EXP all system bugged? I have noticed that It's a bit uneven. For ex, if I add a new team member and grind to catch them up, it will stop gaining exp about 2 levels under the rest of the team but then if I move to another encounter area the EXP starts up again.
If this is intentional it's not a huge deal, I was just wondering because I have never seen it before.

Right now, I am stuck, I am in New Mauville and can't find how to turn off Wattson's generator.
I thought I remembered it being right there next to the machine in the original but again it's been a loooong time or else it's been changed.
I have tried talking to the electricians but all of them just say "Go away kid, I'm working" and interacting with other machines in the room does nothing.

BTW, I hope the impossible Wattson battle will actually happen in future versions, it just felt flat without it and the element of "WTF" is just fun.

A game not being "nuzlocke friendly" isnt an excuse for bad balancing. Most games, including extreme difficulty hacks like RadicalRed or Run and Bun or Kaizo games are balanced around a few things.

Just a brief comment on this issue, have you played the original Snakewood?

"I've played through the game myself many times, and I know for a fact how difficult it is. I never intended for it to be anything other than pure hell to play through. "
- Culterine, the original creator of Snakewood (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=235371&page=69)

Ngl I am not an expert on balance but this game might not be intended to be balanced.

 

[A¹¹]

Respect dude. Big respect to all the hard work going into this game.

Question: is the EXP all system bugged? I have noticed that It's a bit uneven. For ex, if I add a new team member and grind to catch them up, it will stop gaining exp about 2 levels under the rest of the team but then if I move to another encounter area the EXP starts up again.
If this is intentional it's not a huge deal, I was just wondering because I have never seen it before.

Right now, I am stuck, I am in New Mauville and can't find how to turn off Wattson's generator.
I thought I remembered it being right there next to the machine in the original but again it's been a loooong time or else it's been changed.
I have tried talking to the electricians but all of them just say "Go away kid, I'm working" and interacting with other machines in the room does nothing.

BTW, I hope the impossible Wattson battle will actually happen in future versions, it just felt flat without it and the element of "WTF" is just fun.


Just a brief comment on this issue, have you played the original Snakewood?

"I've played through the game myself many times, and I know for a fact how difficult it is. I never intended for it to be anything other than pure hell to play through. "
- Culterine, the original creator of Snakewood (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=235371&page=69)

Ngl I am not an expert on balance but this game might not be intended to be balanced.

# Pokémon gain more Exp from trainer battles
    exp = (exp * 1.5).floor if trainerBattle?
    # Scale the gained Exp based on the gainer's level (or not)
    if Settings::SCALED_EXP_FORMULA
      if pkmn.level>level # player is higher than enemy -66% exp per level
          exp /= 7
          exp = (exp*(100+66*(level-pkmn.level))/100)
          exp = exp.floor
          exp += 1 if isPartic || hasExpShare
      elsif pkmn.level==level # player level is equal to enemy level (+5% exp)
          exp /= 7
          exp = (exp*(100+5*(level-pkmn.level))/100)
          exp = exp.floor
          exp += 1 if isPartic || hasExpShare
      elsif pkmn.level<level # player is lower than the enemy +75% exp per level
          exp /= 7
          exp = (exp*(100+75*(level-pkmn.level))/100)
          exp = exp.floor
          exp += 1 if isPartic || hasExpShare
      end

This is the current exp formula in the scripts, the values are subject to change.

Anyway for New Mauville as in the original game you just interact with that thing next to the chef, it's stupid but I don't know what to change on it. Also I do find funny that people are 50/50 split if the Wattson battle should return or not.

 

[WerewolfMonkie]

I literally cannot get past Haruko or whatever the Dewford gym leader is. What the heck did you do to Kingmadio?

 

[A¹¹]

I literally cannot get past Haruko or whatever the Dewford gym leader is. What the heck did you do to Kingmadio?

it's functionally the same as in the original snakewood but due to the addition of fairy type it's gotten a new ability that just makes it immune to every damaging move, you can still use any chip damage like sandstorm, confusion or poison

 

[Lucifer]

Anyway for New Mauville as in the original game you just interact with that thing next to the chef, it's stupid but I don't know what to change on it. Also I do find funny that people are 50/50 split if the Wattson battle should return or not.

Thanx. Damn, Secretegg is the GOAT!
That's interesting that there is a split on the impossible Wattson battle. If it does come back, might I suggest making him level 255 rather than the 100 it was in the original because it'll give his cheating more of an authentic feel.

 

[Curleh]

Respect dude. Big respect to all the hard work going into this game.

Question: is the EXP all system bugged? I have noticed that It's a bit uneven. For ex, if I add a new team member and grind to catch them up, it will stop gaining exp about 2 levels under the rest of the team but then if I move to another encounter area the EXP starts up again.
If this is intentional it's not a huge deal, I was just wondering because I have never seen it before.

Right now, I am stuck, I am in New Mauville and can't find how to turn off Wattson's generator.
I thought I remembered it being right there next to the machine in the original but again it's been a loooong time or else it's been changed.
I have tried talking to the electricians but all of them just say "Go away kid, I'm working" and interacting with other machines in the room does nothing.

BTW, I hope the impossible Wattson battle will actually happen in future versions, it just felt flat without it and the element of "WTF" is just fun.


Just a brief comment on this issue, have you played the original Snakewood?

"I've played through the game myself many times, and I know for a fact how difficult it is. I never intended for it to be anything other than pure hell to play through. "
- Culterine, the original creator of Snakewood (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=235371&page=69)

Ngl I am not an expert on balance but this game might not be intended to be balanced.

Originally it was pure hell to play through…..but not from the very beginning of the game, because that's how you discourage people from playing

 

[Mantacoga]

Hi 👋 New to your Rom hack I was wondering??? How far you can get into this game???