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- Seen May 31, 2009
Team Dark_VancElf!
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Dark_Azelf and I were having one of those "all day" conversations on MSN when the idea of making a new team popped up. I was a tad overexcited, but D_A was still able to provide reason as to why I shouldn't use some sets (like Jolly Gyarados !__!). The idea behind the team is to basically get Stealth Rock going, cripple the opponent's defensive core with things like Toxic, Will O Wisp, and basic things like stalling out with ResTalk. Everyone on this team sports resistances and 5/6 posses at least one immunity (Machamp lacks an immunity, although with Rest and Sleep Talk, he can be used to take status and essentially become "immune" to it with Rest). From the looks of it, you'd be correct to assume Gyarados is the only "sweeper" on the team, but with the sheer amount of support this team gives it, sweeping an entire opposition becomes very real. I'm amazed with the success of this team (and D_A has been too, especially since this was intended to be a gimmick team with things like Weavile (rofl)), but of course it has flaws, which is why we ask you to help us to make this team better.
Blue is Vance's commentary
Red is Dark_Azelf's commentary
Red is Dark_Azelf's commentary
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Empoleon
@ Chople Berry / Leftovers
Quiet (+ SpA, - Spe)
252 HP / 20 Def / 238 SpA
~Hydro Pump
~Aqua Jet
~Stealth Rock
~Grass Knot / Ice Beam
Empoleon really is a great way to lead off any team. Most would find this specific lead gimmicky and idiotic, and while I admit to agreeing with them in the past, Dark_Azelf convinced me to giving it a chance, which I'm very grateful for. Empoleon stops many leads with Hydro Pump and Aqua Jet, including but not limited to: Azelf, Aerodactyl, Gengar, Tyranitar, Heatran, etc...Hydro Pump is actually stronger than I expected, being able to 2HKO Metagross and dealing a large deal to Bronzong. Aqua Jet is usually saved for when Torrent is activated, or when a kill is necessary. It doesn't do that much, but with Torrent backing it up, it can be surprisingly powerful. Stealth Rock is essential for any team, though if I don't get it off the first turn, I'm okay with that. Grass Knot is specifically for Swampert, killing it in one hit as well as dealing up to 45% to offensive Gyarados, 2HKOing them after Stealth Rock while they fail to threaten Empoleon (barring Earthquake). Empoleon also posseses 12 beautiful resistances, and is nice for using that 4x resistance to Ice and Steel to absorb hits from Scizor and Mamoswine aimed at Flygon.
I cant remember where i saw this, but i was lurking somewhere and a guy posted this set (i think it was gamefaqs? and also a warstory on smogon). Anyway as soon as i saw this set i fell in love with the idea and after doing damage calculations against common leads i figured that this was probably one of the best (anti) leads out there currently. When doing damage calculations i noticed the only thing threatening to this out of the top leads were Mamoswine (who is not common tbh, #20 most used lead) and Infernape. I figured surviving infernapes close combat was better than surviving an EQ from mamo as Ape is generally more of a threat and generally more common. The thing i like about this is it bulky and can hurt things, to give you an idea of how well this guy can take hits, Min attack Swampert and max attack Adamant Metagross cant even OHKO and just activate Torrent and believe me when you activate this bad boys Torrent you KNOW about it. Aqua Jet is pretty cool for loling at sash leads and Stealth Rock is obligatory. Last slot is basically up for grabs but grass knot is probably better because we are kinda pert weak and it does snag as Vance said, offensive Gyarados and stops offensive cune from coming in for free.
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Heatran
@ Leftovers
Timid (+ Spe, - Atk)
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~Substitute
~Fire Blast
~Earth Power
~Toxic
Yes, the infamous "SubTran". Another set I once considered awful, however, Dark_Azelf once again explained how to use it, and why it can work. We decided Toxic would be the best choice for a team such as this that depends on Gyarados to break down the opposition. Toxic + Fire Blast hit everything in the game barring foe Heatran, who is promptly OHKOed by Earth Power. Substitute lets it stall out non-Seismic Toss Blissey, as well as preventing things like Celebi's Thunder Wave or Abomasnow's Leech Seed from connecting, letting us beat them ever more soundly. The Fire immunity Heatran offers is too good to pass up, allowing us to freely switch-in on Will O Wisps and even make ballsy predictions into things like enemy Heatran and Infernape, feinting Choice Scarf (as long as they don't see Leftovers, the chances of us scaring them off and us getting a Substitute are pretty high). Heatran is also relatively bulky on both sides of the spectrum, even without EV investment. Due to this, Heatran remains a support option this team will likely be unable to function with.
Sub Tran, what a great lure and pokemon in general. Lure for what may you ask ? Well, bulky waters of course! Once your bulky water gets worn down we have a Gyarados wating to rip apart your team. Anyways with this set Heatran can potentially beat its usual counters too whilst wearing them down (Yes, including Blissey, this is why you should promptly laugh in the face of anyone who said Blissey doesnt need S-Toss). In addition this guy also gets so many opportunites to come in its kinda not funny anymore aka people who spam dragon moves and Scizor. ^.^ Fire Blast nails anything thats not resistant to it and offers fantastic coverage with Toxic. This combo hits everything besides as said by Vance other Heatran and Tentacruel (and Qwilfish LOL) who are wasted by Earth Power anyway.
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Machamp
@ Leftovers
Adamant (+ Atk, - SpA)
188 HP / 98 Atk / 216 Def / 8 Spe
~Dynamicpunch
~Stone Edge
~Rest
~Sleep Talk
Possibly the weakest link on our team, in my opinion at least. Still, Machamp offers a reliable Rock resistance, as well as a solid counter to most Tyranitar sets. Machamp is also a decently bulky tank, being able to absorb phyiscal and special hits and retaliate with powerful attacks coming off his still very respectable 352 Attack stat. Dyanmicpunch makes Machamp, causing even things that would normally be glad to take a hit (Gyarados, Cresselia, Celebi) falter due to confusion. It also helps set stuff up, such as Gyarados or even SubTran. Stone Edge also lets Machamp combat most Gyarados and win, as well as kill Salamence if they attempt to switch-in to absorb a Dynamicpunch (not that smart, since confusion is an ass). We tried a Machamp with Substitute + 3 Attacks prior, but I found it didn't do enough damage, and that our team was weak enough to status as it was. Machamp is also the biggest counter to Blissey in the whole game, so it's always nice to have insurance against that fat blob (to be fair, our team isn't weak to Blissey in any sense of the word).
I agree with Vance here, he definately is the weakest link in our team. The more and more i look at this team the more i want to replace this with SD LO Scizor (which i have done when i tested this team) and it seems to work better and Scizor can also deal with our slight Latias weak and revenge kill Tar anyway so idk. Anyway Vance wanted a status absorber and as you know i hate them and think they are set up fodder in this current metagame, =/ lol. Machamp comes in on T-Tar and what not and tanks away haxing his way out of tight situations with D-Punch. Stone Edge is for coverage and hits flying guys like Zappy, Gyarados and Mence. Rest is for healing and Sleep Talk lets him attack whilst asleep which makes switching into him a tough prospect since you dont know what its gonna do.
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Gengar
@ Choice Scarf
Timid (+ Spe, - Atk)
~Shadow Ball
~Focus Blast
~Thunderbolt
~Will O Wisp / Hidden Power Ice
Yes, none other than the infamous ScarfGar! Notorious in DP for being one of the best Scarf revenge killers around (its only true competition was Garchomp and Heatran). While Scizor's increased popularity severely hindered Gengar, it can still remain an excellent revenge killer, as well as interesting lure. I initially had Hidden Power Ice to revenge kill Salamence, though D_A suggested Will O Wisp to act as a "lure" for things like Scizor, Tyranitar, and Metagross. While being burned, they can't effectively threaten us, and will likely be too weak to even KO with Pursuit (not confirmed, however). I still sometimes wonder about using HP Ice, just in case Salamence becomes too problamatic. Thunderbolt is essential for Water-types, as well as revenge killing Adamant Gyarados after 2 Dragon Dances. Shadow Ball is standard honestly, while Focus Blast gives Gengar perfect coverage.
Scarf Gar (Gengar in general) dropped in usage thanks to platinum making Scizor and thus its Pursuit #1 in usage, however he still makes a great revenge killer with its impressive coverage hitting everything in the game for at least neutral. I have been using this version of Gengar ever since platinum began because i was sick and tired of things like Tyranitar, Scizor, Bronzong, Metagross, Jirachi and even things like Snorlax and Swampert swithing in with impunity and possibly Pursuiting me too. Well not any more they cant >=]. Will-O-Wisp cripples every single one of the aformentioned common Gengar "checks" and eases up on prediction aka they have a Gyarados out and Scizor and Metagross waiting to switch in and suspecting a scarf Thunderbolt they will switch in which situation i can Will-o-Wisp and own every single one of them. Whilst burned, CB Scizor NOR CB Tyranitar cant OHKO me with Pursuit when i switch out so it really is the best move for that slot. I still hate HP Ice on this guy and although it kills mence its just a free switch in yelling "PLEASE PURSUIT ME" thus we lose our check against alot of threats. Again another great reason to add Scizor >> Machamp and thus its Bullet Punch to kill Mence (SR + BP pretty much kill it) and finish said Mence off with Gar's Shadow Ball if it somehow lives or gets past Scizor.
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Flygon
@ Choice Band
Jolly (+ Spe, - SpA)
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~Outrage
~Earthquake
~Fire Punch
~U-turn
Yeah, it's Flygon. Back from the age old "Team Vance-Pop", fulfilling the same role as a powerful Choice Bander. Realistically, Flygon and Garchomp are compared due to their typing, but I've found Flygon more effective when it comes to dealing with stall and scouting, mainly due to Levitate. Outrage can 2HKO a large portion of OU, and Earthquake + Fire Punch round out the coverage by smashing Steels such as Heatran, Skarmory, and Bronzong. U-turn is excellent for early game, setting momentum and also wearing down things like fat Cresselia. It's also not terrible on a Choice user, so [insert member's name here], please don't flood this thread with idiotic nonsense. I know that in Team Vance-Pop I swore by Adamant to secure 2HKOs, but unlike Vance-Pop this team relies a lot more on breaking away threats for Gyarados, meaning the extra Speed is necessary to outrun things like Lucario and co. as well as potentially outrun Zapdos and, at worst, tie with max Speed MixMence. He really is pretty cool with those resistances, even if he doesn't hit as hard as Salamence (who cares, he doesn't get ripped by Stealth Rock).
CB Flygon is cool and i can say its a very important member to the team, not only does he take t-waves but his other resistances and immunities go along way too. U-Turn has been a great asset to this team too because it eases up preddiction and giving one of our deadly sweepers a free switch in can be game changing. Earthquake and Outrage are a standard afair and if you need to ask what they are for then you might aswell click that lovely x button in the top right of your screen. Fire Punch is for the only 2 things (ok 3, sorry ilu shedinja lol) in the game that resist its STAB move aka Zong and Skarm and puts a nice dent in both. Vance said he hates losing speed ties with opposing Mence so he switched from Adamant to Jolly, Jolly also lets us speed tie with those offensive zappy. In addition this + Tran provide excellent synergy, as once again with SR and Toxic damage (lol bulky waters), very little walls this effectively.
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Gyarados
@ Leftovers
Adamant (+ Atk, - SpA)
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~Dragon Dance
~Waterfall
~Substitute
~Bounce
Okay, so I lied when I said that this team wasn't full gimmicks. Bounce Gyarados is awesome, for coolness factor and for being unexpected. Bounce deals a lot of damage to things like Celebi and Starmie, as well as providing excellent coverage along with a way to scout opponent's Gyarados counters. Substitute is great against things like Earth Power locked Heatran, as well as completely screwing up opponents who rely on things like ScarfGar to kill Gyarados. I once used Jolly, but I found it fails to OHKO things like Lucario after a single boost (sad, I know), so it was back to Adamant. Subbing before SubTran's Toxic would be cool, so that could be an argument for Jolly, I guess.
Another threat that benefits greatly from poisoned waters. Bounce Gyarados is a horribly underated and is potentially its nastiest set when played well. Waterfall + Bounce have fantastic coverage. Usually they switch vappy or something into Heatran and get Toxic'd and then try to Wish and Protect when Gyarados Bounces which is just hilarious because they are just Toxi stalling themselves, either they do this or switch and take a STAB Bounce (which has a 30% paralysis rate might i add) so its all good. Sub is cool for scouting and makes those 2 turns for Bounce even less of an afterthough. Usually this set would have a Leichi Berry but we both felt Leftovers would be more practical and helps Gyarados more, as he is pretty bulky. Just to show you the power of DD Bounce Gyara, Celebi has a high chance to get OHKO'd with SR up and Kingdra suffers the same fate.
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