Team Lucario, report in for evaluation! (OU RMT)

[SoulRed12]

Hello all. This team was mostly built to support lucario. Lucario is the main sweeper; as long, however, as he can get off an sd or two. Otherwise, he defers to gyarados or salamence until he can safely do so. Thus, his presence in my team is non-negociable. Plus if I changed him the thread title would become irrelevant. =p

This team started out quite differently than it ended up now, but underwent many major changes until it reached its current form with which I have been battling for a while now. I've been winning a good percentage of my battles, though not as good as it could be!

I recognize I am quite noticeably lacking a capable and dedicated special sweeper. Not sure where to go with that one (or if it overall matters). Porygon2 is ev'ed in sp.att more so than the defensive duck set on smogon, but that doesn't really count. Mixmence, sure, but again, not a dedicated special sweeper.

Team Lucario:
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Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP/52 Atk/216 Def/
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Avalanche
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
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Physical starter mixpert. Put up rocks, then roar for a while until he expires or until I can switch to a reliable counter. Nice to foil bp teams before they can begin; if it's a smeargle or breloom I'll switch out to someone else to take the sleep, then I'll head back to swampert for the roar (or for breloom, to gyara for the taunt and then over to salamence for the resistance). Ninjask and yanmega are easy, since I resist all of their attacks and it has absolutely no way to stop me from roaring. Other than that it's great at getting a little damage on either the lead with avalanche / e/q or roar a bit until I see more of my opponents pokemon and gets some damage on them. Avalanche also helps with revenge killing dragons and fliers.

Metagross @ Expert Belt
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Att/136 Spd/122 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Grass Knot
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MixGross. This guy's an awesome wall breaker, and can hold his own against many different threats. The surprise factor alone works to KO many of its counters, and since it and lucario have very similar counters, it helps wonders to clear the path for Luke to sweep. Still considering changing the set, so let me know if anything jumps out at you.

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP/108 Atk/100 Def/144 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Taunt
---
Bulkydos. One of my favorite sweepers, ever. In one battle he literally saved me as my last pokemon, with 22 hp left. I managed to get off two dd's against an unsuspecting lucario before that point, then killed it and OHKOed two more full health pokes. I opted for taunt here because I thought it'd be nice to block thunder waves/toxic, phazing, and set up moves. His main job, however, is to come in on fires and grounds, get in at least one dd hopefully on the switch, and proceed to sweep as much as possible. If I'm in danger of being OHKOed, I'll probably swap out.

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Reflect
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Moonlight
---
One of my favorite pokes to use of all time. Wonderfully bulky, walls both physical and special attacks (assuming they're not powerful enough to 2KO him, which very few are). Many pokes can barely scrape a 3HKO on him if that, and after reflect/light screen (which one do you think would be best?) combined with moonlight, they'll have little to no hope of breaking through this wall.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 16 Atk/252 Spd/240 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Brick Break
- Crunch
- Draco Meteor
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This one took a while to figure out. I wanted something that could deal both kinds of damage in a number of different types, while retaining an immunity to earthquake and fire and fighting moves (for taking attacks intended for lucario). Wasn't sure where to go with this, and I'm considering making this a decicated special/specs sweeper instead but I'm not sure.

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Crunch / Stone Edge / Ice punch?
- Extremespeed
- Swords Dance
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The big guy. SD Luke. I love his sheer power, but his weaknesses are pretty irritating. Hopefully by the time I pull this guy out all scarftrans, scarfgons, infernapes, opposing lucario, etc. will be gone. If I can switch in on someone and get in an sd late game, it'll likely be all be over. I opted for crunch as opposed to stone edge and ice punch to take care of ghosts and psychics hopefully on the switch.

As always, all comments are welcome.

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Threat List:
No threat | Medium Threat | Big Threat

Azelf: Relatively troublesome…Cresselia can wall it unless it's packing taunt

Breloom: Azelf outspeeds it and can taunt it. Salamence also eats it quite nicely.

Celebi: Salamence fire blasts it/metagross kills it.

Dugtrio: Cresselia is immune to e/q and arena trap, and can kill back with ice beam.

Electivire: Cresselia walls it.

Empoleon: Gyarados taunts it before it can attempt a subpetaya setup. Then Cresselia can wall it pretty well.

Flygon: It gets a face full of ice beam from Cresselia.

Gengar: Hmm. Dunno.

Gliscor: Killed by Cresselia.

Gyarados: Cresselia. If my gyarados is packing a dd already, it can kill it before it kills me.

Heatran: Walled and paralyzed by Cresselia, and then killed by gyarados.

Heracross: No real counter, unless metagross is already in and I can get off an HP fire...

Infernape: Done in by gyarados, or walled/paralyzed by Cresselia if it has stone edge.

Jirachi: Salamence kills all non-scarfed versions, or Metagross can kill it as well.

Kingdra: Paralyzed by cresselia and from there, it's an easy kill from salamence assuming I can get it in.

Latias: Luke's crunch or Metagross's meteor mash (2HKO).

Lucario: Cresselia walls it, paralyzes it, and sets up a reflect to pave the way for Metagross.

Machamp: Walled pretty well by cresselia, especially after a reflect goes up. Payback can certainly sting, though.

Magnezone: Outsped (except when zone is scarfed) by lucario who can OHKO it. Metagross can kill it pretty well too, if it doesn't have to switch into it, as it is fast enough to kill with e/q before it can magnet rise.

Mamoswine: Cresselia can set up a reflect, which can pave the way for someone else.

Metagross: Swampert deals with it, unless it's like me with grass knot. In that case, though, it probably doesn't have bullet punch so salamence can come in and fire blast it.

Ninjask: Roared by swampy and avalanched. Gyarados can also wall it since most only have x-scissor to attack with and gyara can use taunt to prevent sd or bp.

Porygon-Z: Metagross or lucario.

Rhyperior: If it switches in expecting to kill metagross, it gets a nice grass knot. Otherwise, Cresselia can come in with a reflect and ice beam.

Roserade: Killed by salamence or metagross.

Rotom-A: Sort of a problem. Luke can crunch it if it doesn't have a scarf. Swampert fairs moderately well.

Salamence: Cresselia doesn't mind a draco meteor, and can hit back with ice beam.

Scizor: Metagross can hp fire it. Even superpower hits him for a 3HKO (actually, more than that, after the attack drop).

Snorlax: Metagross can deal some decent damage, or lucario can close combat him before a curse/after a swords dance.

Starmie: Walled by Cresselia and thunderwaved. From there...anything goes I guess.

Suicune: Crippled by Cresselia's thunderwave, and KOed by, well, whoever can do the job.

Togekiss: Walled and done in by Cresselia.

Tyranitar: Done in by Salamence's brick break or luke's CC.

Weavile: Killed by Metagross. Hopefully after stealth rock is up to break sashes.

Yanmega: Pretty much the same as ninjask for bp variants, otherwise killed very easily by almost anyone in my team.

Zapdos: Killed by just about everyone except Luke, and if it switches in on gyarados after a dd it gets either killed or seriously injured by a +1 stone edge.

 

[~Frozen Darkness~]

I'll make this quick and to the point.

Ew...Mixpert is bad. Swampert just doesn't get enough Sp. Att to hit things hard with Surf. Switch it with something like Waterfall or something.

Roost on Mence, it needs a recovery move to shrug off LO recoil.

Lastly, Stone Edge on Luke, it's better than Ice Punch in most ways except for hitting Dragons harder.

 

[Anti]

Ugh this is why balanced teams don't work. Just from looking at your threat list, I can tell that the defensive structure of this team is horribly flimsy.

First of all, you rely on Rotom-H to kill WAY too much. It's actually very frail; Heracross's CB Megahorn does up to 72% to it despite being resisted. That mean it most certainly isn't going to hold up against even weak things like Weavile and Offensive Suicune, which will wear you out fast. Even if it wasn't frail, SR and SS damage mess up Rotom-H faster than you'd think even if it doesn't take any damage, and Pursuit absolutely mauls that sucker. Also, its attacks (especially unSTABed Overheat after a Special attack drop) are insanely easy to take advantage of by something like Salamence and Empoleon. Not good.

Speaking of Salamence and Flygon, you say you counter them, but you actually don't. Both are major threats here - Salamence blows by Porygon2 with Draco Meteor, which is going to OHKO. It also loses to Adamant CBMence, which will 2HKO with Outrage even after its Intimidate is reflected back at it...the only common Salamence variant p2 stops is DDMence, but it needs to have basically all of its HP to do so. There's also Flygon, which basically does the same thing as Salamence only with all of its physical sets.

Your threat list, as I have strongly implied and will say now, is pretty flawed. Gyarados doesn't counter Infernape at all and is hardly a check to be honest, Rhyperior throws up a Sub before Gyarados can do a thing, and Celebi (and even Blissey) can paralyze your entire team bar Swampert and make your offenses pretty much worthless. Your team isn't as defensively inept as some are, but it's not great. Trust me, Machamp shouldn't be one of your main concerns.

To fix your woes, I would replace Rotom-H...it's one of the worst things to rely on, as your defenses crumble faster than the France army of 1940 when it goes down (and if you're not familiar with World War II, that's REALLY fast lol). Since it's easy to wear down/trap/kill in general, it needs to go. I would put in a more capable Scarfer if you want to make your team more offensive or a solid defensive anchor for something more defensive - and trust me, balanced isn't going to work in the metagame as well as stall and especially offense. Just be sure it covers at least to some extent what Rotom did.

Roost > Crunch on MixMence, which doesn't even 3HKO Cresselia sometimes. >_> Also, Mence doesn't need all that Speed, use 80 Atk / 176 Spd / 252 SAtk for more power.I guess you get outsped by Timid offensive Suicune, but those aren't exactly common.

Ice Beam > Surf on Swampert. It still kills bulky Grounds (who usually dont stay in to get smashed by Ice Beam/Surf anyway), but it also gives you a little more Salamence insurance and stops Flygon decently...Porygon2 sort of does too, but I'm about to suggest...

...to replace it. Swampert already handles Heatran (besides the Toxic ones that cripple it, though P2 dies to those as well). It does nothing against Salamence to begin with, and Jolteon is pretty easy to outplay (and probably wall if you go with a more defensive approach). Jolteon and Gyarados are you big worries here (especially the latter), but if you can't handle them with replacements, then I would keep Porygon2, as overhyped and ineffective as it is.

As for Rotom-H's replacement, You can do anything from Vaporeon or Cresselia to a Scarfer like Metagross or Heatran (and trust me, you could use a more capable Steel-type defensively than Lucario). Vaporeon does stop your horrid Rain Dance & MixApe weakness and can stop Gyarados in Porygon2's place.

I mean, it's all up to you. It's actually not a terrible team despite my criticisms, it just needs tuning up. In other words, the dead weight like Rotom-H (and probably Porygon2 as well) needs to go, and their replacements can make your team stronger defensively and maybe offensively too. Regardless of what you do, I would look over your threat list - there are a lot of mistakes. Still, this has potential. Most of the problems were because of Rotom-H anyway, so getting rid of it should be very helpful (assuming its replacement is more capable). Hope I helped.

EDIT: Another suggestion I just thought of (lol) is to replace the rather outdated bulky Gyarados with bulky Zapdos - it stops Scizor easily and has recovery unlike Gyarados, and in a metagame ruled by SR, that is useful. It stops most waters pretty effectively but isn't killed after two Surfs. It also makes replacing Rotom a little easier.

 

[SoulRed12]

Thanks for your comments ^_^

While rotom was indeed the glue that held together my team, I do of course agree that it is quite frail and that is annoying. I can't think of another poke though, with its versatility AND an e/q immunity AND steel, electricity, and flying resistance. I suppose one poke can't do it all, especially when it has such little hp, but I really at this point can't decide on a proper replacement for him. I know you gave me some suggestions but I really can't decide between them; each of them, which giving a lot more bulk and survivability, leave out a lot of what rotom does for me.

As for porygon, yeah, he and rotom really were meant to work together to allow rotom to fearlessly overheat on annoying steels and then to block heatran's boosted fire blast by tracing flash fire. But I suppose if rotom is gone, he can go too, but that again opens up a hole which I don't yet know how to properly refill. If I replace rotom with scarfed heatran though, that would still allow for a similar synergy between them I suppose. That would remove all the versatility, unfortunately, and open up an easy latias switch in for a quick calm mind. Also I lose the ability to trick pokemon like cm latias or cm blissey to cripple them with a useless scarf. Maybe another poke could do the job, but idk for sure.

I'm really quite at a loss for the next step, I recognize that what you're saying about rotom is true, but I'm unsure what to do about it. I'm pretty tired right now (past 12 midnight where I live) so maybe it's just that, but I can't see how any replacement will fill all the jobs that I use rotom for.

 

[Pokedra]

As Anti said, 80 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 176 Spe on your Mence. Roost > Crunch, it gives you recovery and Crunch isn't that helpful =/

I always run Ice Beam > Surf on MixPert, it hits Dragons and provides you with better coverage.

Ice Punch would probably be the best option for Luke, to hit Dragons mainly.

Just some nitpicks.

 

[SoulRed12]

Okay, after a long time of consideration, I made quite a few changes based on the feedback above:

-> Swampert is now just physical swampert, with avalanche instead of surf. With its defensive evs and nature it should be now capable of revenge-killing an outraging salamence or flygon.
-> Changed porygon2 with cresselia. I love this guy (girl?), because although he doesn't absorb attacks from heatran, jolteon, etc. she sponges them very well. Charge beam is only a 2HKO on gyarados after stealth rock, but even a +1 Life Orb waterfall (or stone edge, since they both end up with the same bp after STAB) is a 3HKO at best. I'm considering changing the set to something else because right now he can sponge a heatran attack (fire blast only 3HKOs it), but he can't do much back, especially not in 2-3 turns. Maybe light screen would be helpful instead of reflect.
-> Swapped out Rotom for MixGross. For a while, I wasn't planning on getting rid of rotom, because I couldn't find another poke that would fill his place. But MixGross is an amazing surprise wall breaker, outdoing my expectations on his initial trials. Suggestions for a better set are still accepted, though.
-> I'm also going to go through and revise my threats list now to remove any problems (hopefully). Calculations, here I come...

The first post will be updated soon. (I'm getting started now)