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[Discussion] The Monotype Discussion Thread

Reginald Cosmic

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    Just make sure your Dragonite evolves before you fight the League, and you'll be fine. My own Dragonite in Red evolved just before Victory Road.

    As for Aerodactyl, I'd get the EXP share from Route 15 if reasonably possible, or just grind via switch-outs if not, but either way it'd be best to get it as soon as you beat Koga. Leave Saffron, the water routes, and one of the two paths to Fuchsia City until after getting Aerodactyl to save some experience for later. You can actually make it to Cinnabar without fighting a single trainer by surfing south from Pallet Town, IIRC.

    I usually surf South of Pallet Town to reach Cinnabar, and as far as I remember, the trainers are all optional on that route. You just gotta stay out of their sights.
     
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    Catching up on this (was out of town and I have grown accustomed to not opening the site on my phone), but this does bring up an interesting question to ask everyone. Earlier we had the question about rare candies and when to use them. In my more recent runs, I've been leaning more towards delaying evolutions when possible. For one example, I delayed evolutions in my Grass/White run, and it helped a lot. In BDSP, which is next, Turtwig gets Giga Drain at 41, while Torterra gets it at 51. Crunch is 37/45.

    So, here's the question to you all: For those of you that do think about whether to delay or not, do you have any guidelines for when to delay and when not to delay?

    Given that I'm doing the ultimates, I feel like it's more of a "will I get a move I want before I need it if I hold off", and then I decide based on that. Or rather, "Can I survive long enough to reach that level without pulling my hair out". But I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.
     

    Explorer of Time

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    Personally, I don't like to delay evolutions at all, unless the pre-evo in question learns moves that the evolution can't, and those moves are things I actually want to use. The stat boosts are too good to pass up.

    (Assuming the move is learned at a level I'll actually get to, of course. No sense in waiting the whole game for Spore on Shroomish when I usually beat RSE before my team even reaches Level 54.)
     

    Reginald Cosmic

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    I'm with Explorer of Time on this one. Sometimes I avoid stone evolution like Ninetales until Vulpix learns Flamethrower without a TM. Numel was the first Mon where I consistently made him not evolve at level up for the same reason. Since I'm bored, have a tangent that doesn't belong in the main thread: I recently did a "no evolution" challenge of Leaf Green. Dang, Abra is a fantastic glass cannon with Psychic. I really gotta finish up that one, but errrrr, Victory Road...
     
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    Generally, only if the evolved form cannot learn the required moves, I won't delay the evolution.

    If I like some of the unevolved pokemon, I just prefer 'not evolve' to 'delay evolution'. One example was I chose not to evolve my galar ponyta as she was really cute when I played Pokemon Shield the first time. Well, however, lastly I just put her into the box as I found it's too weak with no evolution. I must say, even the pokemon was cute or something else before evolution, it's a little bit difficult to play without evolution. (at least it was to me)
     
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    Thanks for all of the thoughts.

    Here's a more specific question. I'm planning on skipping Burmy in my grass run on BD. I get a full party with it, otherwise, I'm left one short. The problem, however, is that it's a Honey Tree 'mon, and I think the rate listed is 11%. Means, on average, it'll could take me anywhere from 6 to 54 hours (11% being just shy of 1/9, and each tree takes 6 hours). Since most of my monotypes are averaging around 30 hours a game, it's probably not worth the time investment.

    If anyone can think of a reason to get it, I'll "farm" for it in the background. Why couldn't it be like Cherubi and just show up in GU?
     

    Explorer of Time

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    Thanks for all of the thoughts.

    Here's a more specific question. I'm planning on skipping Burmy in my grass run on BD. I get a full party with it, otherwise, I'm left one short. The problem, however, is that it's a Honey Tree 'mon, and I think the rate listed is 11%. Means, on average, it'll could take me anywhere from 6 to 54 hours (11% being just shy of 1/9, and each tree takes 6 hours). Since most of my monotypes are averaging around 30 hours a game, it's probably not worth the time investment.

    If anyone can think of a reason to get it, I'll "farm" for it in the background. Why couldn't it be like Cherubi and just show up in GU?
    I'd farm for it in the background, since there's 21 trees and if you apply Honey to all of them that you have access to, it should get you a female Burmy pretty quick. Though keep in mind you need a female Burmy because male Burmy evolves into the non-Grass Mothim.

    (Also, should get lucky enough to run into Munchlax, I highly recommend catching it even though it's useless to you, since it always holds a Leftovers and that is very useful to a party of any type. Or just Thief it, if you have it on a team member.)
     
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    Sounds good. I do have my Wormadam from my Bug run that I could bring in once I reach the daycare and breed for it, too, if I reach there without getting one. I think - I'd need to at least check what gender it was.
     

    Reginald Cosmic

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    I'm not 100% sure, but I'm thinking of bringing Butterfree to the Elite Four because it can learn status moves like Toxic. Its stats aren't ideal for late game (especially that pitiful physical attack stat), but I don't know when else I'll have an opportunity to bring Butterfree to the final boss, so I'll be able to say that I brought Butterfree to the Elite Four.

    I'm having trouble with team planning here. I don't want to use HM02 Fly a lot because it's a two turn move (though it is nice that it's semi-invulnerable turn 1), so if my Pokemon is poisoned or burned, it's detriment. Plus it's only 70 base power before S.T.A.B. Speaking of which, I might use Dodrio as a "STAB" machine because I don't think the coverage moves are all that good. I'm debating on whether or not to save the TM for Return for Dodrio or not (since Tri Attack is weaker but can burn or freeze or paralyze, all of which are useful)

    I want to use Steel Wing on SOMETHING, but I don't know who. It's a really cool sounding move, plus my entire team is going to be weak to rock-type attacks, so I might as well use it as a coverage option.

    Also, upon closer examination, Aerodactyl looks like a waste of experience on this run since Gyarados can learn Earthquake, and Charizard gets STAB Flamethrower. I'm not using Zapdos because it feels like cheating, but I don't know who else to leave on the team.

    1. Charizard with Flamethrower, Slash (maybe Return?)
    2. Gyarados with Surf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Earthquake (and prior to getting Earthquake from Gym 8, probably Hidden Power Ground)
    3. Dodrio with Tri Attack, Drill Peck, and Return
    4. Butterfree with Toxic, Sleep Powder, Psychic, and Giga Drain
    5. Dragonite with Dragon Claw, Thunder Wave, Strength (because HM but also dat Attack stat), and (I don't know) Fly???
    Note: TMs are not reusable in Gen 3, and that's why I'm not sure what to do with Charizard. Normally, I'd give him Flamethrower, Dragon Claw, Fly, and one other move (probably Slash), but here, I'm not sure.
     

    Explorer of Time

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    TMs are not reusable in Gen 3, and that's why I'm not sure what to do with Charizard. Normally, I'd give him Flamethrower, Dragon Claw, Fly, and one other move (probably Slash), but here, I'm not sure.
    You can buy extra copies of Brick Break and Secret Power from the Celadon Dept. Store. Brick Break goes good on anything with a decent Attack stat, and Secret Power's preferable to Slash on most terrains (especially a 30% Paralysis chance in buildings and generic terrain, which are where all the boss battles are).

    EDIT: Full Moveset Recommendations:

    Charizard: Flamethrower, Brick Break, Aerial Ace, Rock Slide
    Gyarados: Surf, Earthquake, Secret Power, Dragon Dance
    Butterfree: Toxic, Sleep Powder, Psychic, Giga Drain
    Dodrio*: Drill Peck, Tri Attack, Attract, Hidden Power**
    Dragonite: Dragon Claw, Thunder Wave, Return, Flamethrower
    Fearow?: Drill Peck, Secret Power, Steel Wing, Hidden Power (Ground) or Agility
    Crobat (Postgame, replace Fearow): Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball, Confuse Ray, Double Team

    *Try and get a female Dodrio for Attract; since more trainers in FRLG use male Pokemon, but Hidden Power takes precedence.
    ** Preferably Fighting, Steel, Ground, Ghost, or Bug, in descending order of desirability.
     
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    Reginald Cosmic

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    I'd considered Brick Break on Charizard, but I didn't add it to the list from earlier. Part of it was I wasn't sure how useful it'd be (though now that I'm looking at it, rock- and ice-type coverage would be very nice to have).

    That said, I don't know about heading into the Elite Four without Thunderbolt. I know Gyarados is best as a physical attacker, but Lorelei's team is almost entirely water-type and 3/5 are water/ice-type, so I really think Thunderbolt would be helpful, especially if I'm unlucky enough to not get Hidden Power Fighting (or Steel) on Dodrio. (I know Butterfree has Giga Drain, but I need all the help I can get.)

    What do you suggest I do against Lance's dragons, particularly the Dragonair and Dragonite? I've taken down Hoenn's Elite Four Drake with Flygon in the Ground monotype, but the fourth E4 member is always tough in Gen 3.

    I only realize now (after the previous paragraph) that... I think you made a mistake(???) regarding Dragon Claw. Bulbapedia says there's only one TM02 for Dragon Claw on Victory Road, so why did you put Dragon Claw for Charizard and Dragonite. There's Dragon Rage by level up for both of them, but that's not really good enough for the Elite Four. I'm also not teaching Dragonite "Outrage" before the Elite Four because unless I'm doing a bug-type team, Level 60 is like, total overkill for the Elite Four in Gen 3.
     

    Explorer of Time

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    That said, I don't know about heading into the Elite Four without Thunderbolt. I know Gyarados is best as a physical attacker, but Lorelei's team is almost entirely water-type and 3/5 are water/ice-type, so I really think Thunderbolt would be helpful, especially if I'm unlucky enough to not get Hidden Power Fighting (or Steel) on Dodrio. (I know Butterfree has Giga Drain, but I need all the help I can get.)

    In that case, swap Dragonite's Flamethrower out for Thunderbolt for the first run of the League (but not the Rematch). You'll have trouble fighting Steel-types, but the only ones you'll have to worry about before the postgame are the Magneton line, and nobody uses them past Viridian Gym.

    What do you suggest I do against Lance's dragons, particularly the Dragonair and Dragonite? I've taken down Hoenn's Elite Four Drake with Flygon in the Ground monotype, but the fourth E4 member is always tough in Gen 3.

    Swap out Ice Beam for something on Dragonite's moveset, or use Articuno as your 6th Pokemon. Alternatively, brute force your way through; Lance's movesets are bad and give you lots of free turns to use healing items, since he runs Hyper Beam on his entire team and Outrage on his Dragon-types.

    I only realize now (after the previous paragraph) that... I think you made a mistake(???) regarding Dragon Claw. Bulbapedia says there's only one TM02 for Dragon Claw on Victory Road, so why did you put Dragon Claw for Charizard and Dragonite. There's Dragon Rage by level up for both of them, but that's not really good enough for the Elite Four. I'm also not teaching Dragonite "Outrage" before the Elite Four because unless I'm doing a bug-type team, Level 60 is like, total overkill for the Elite Four in Gen 3.

    I misread a Dragon Rage on Dragonite's level-up moveset as Dragon Claw. I'll go ahead and fix that. Charizard's Dragon Claw will be replaced by Rock Slide.
     

    Reginald Cosmic

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    I'm really afraid of using a legendary in this challenge because I've returned to scripting for the YouTube series (not to self-promote or anything). I don't want people pointing out that I used a legendary in the challenge/immediately disliking the video. I know the legendary birds have lower stats than the non-legendary Dragonite, but it's too much to try to explain and win over with viewers especially with all the "Hardcore Nuzlocke" videos I gotta compete with. I'm going to have to think hard about it and get back to you.
     

    Reginald Cosmic

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    I made a save state right before the Magikarp salesman so I could easily check the resulting Magikarp's IVs. I guess I could just catch a bunch of Magikarp once I get the Good Rod in Vermillion, but I thought it'd be easier to just be handed one. So I ended up resetting like 60 or 80 times, and I settled on a Magikarp with neutral nature, good IVs, and a perfect 70 base power "Hidden Power (Flying)" so Gyarados can get STAB off that later, though I don't know how useful it'll be in the late game. I'm satisfied.

    I am really going to hate myself when I go through dozens of Doduo to get one with Hidden Power (Fighting). The upside is I can catch like 10 or 20 of them at a time in the Safari Zone and then check all of them at once.

    I'll go ahead and reply to your post form earlier even though I haven't figured whether or not to include Zapdos: Ice Beam on Dragonite seems kind of inefficient because since either way I'd be sending out a Pokémon that could be countered quickly by dragon-type attacks. The 4x weakness to Ice only applies to Lance's Dragonite and not his two Dragonair or his Aerodactyl or Gyarados. I really might as well stick with using my Dragonite's Dragon Claw. Plus, this way I can put Thunderbolt on Dragonite for Lorelei's water-types, Lance's Aerodactyl and Gyarados, and the Rival Champion's Pidgeot and Blastoise (mostly Lorelei's water-types though).
     
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    I'm thinking ahead to the next run, and I was challenged to do Dark. Looking at gen 2, I get four post-game and one before Elite Four. Per Standard Rules, I would be allowed to add the four. Which gives me some options, at least.

    What's a "realistic" timing of adding the rest to my team? One per gym? All at the start? Thoughts welcome.
     

    Explorer of Time

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    I'm thinking ahead to the next run, and I was challenged to do Dark. Looking at gen 2, I get four post-game and one before Elite Four. Per Standard Rules, I would be allowed to add the four. Which gives me some options, at least.

    What's a "realistic" timing of adding the rest to my team? One per gym? All at the start? Thoughts welcome.
    You can trade/hack in them all at the beginning at Lv. 5, of course, but I'd recommend holding off on Sneasel and Murkrow for a couple gyms since they have high base stats compared to the other three. I'd say Goldenrod would be a good place for them to be traded/hacked in without being too overpowered, though you can get them earlier if you're having trouble with Water-types. Definitely get Houndour as your starter at the beginning, and Larvitar either at the beginning or close to it. Neither of these have high base stats, so they should offer you a moderate amount of challenge to use in the early game.
     

    Reginald Cosmic

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    I was struggling to remember what the 5th dark-type Pokémon in Gen 2 was, so I checked Bulbapedia, like "Oh, duh!"

    My pen pal who watches a lot of challenge videos kind of surprised me by saying just one of the Legendary birds would be all right. (This was even before he realized the legendary birds of Kanto have low Base Stat Totals than Dragonite and the rest of the 600 club). Articuno would be really useful for countering Lance's team, and it's quite exquisite-looking, but Zapdos is Zapdos. [/In Jest] No, but for real, if I'm gonna use a legendary bird, it's gonna be Zapdos. Besides, this way I won't have to buy a TM for [Looks at the Gen III learnset on Bulbapedia and then stays silent like something out of old AVGN videos] Zapdos doesn't learn Thunderbolt by level up? ... They didn't give Zapdos the move Thunderbolt without you having to buy a TM at the Game Corner?! Oh, but Articuno comes with Ice Beam built in! Great! /Sarcasm Gosh, you game developers are exhausting!

    [/Bit Over] Is it a bad idea to use my one Master Ball on whichever of the two legendary birds I pick? Geez oh pete, is it Level 50? I guess I'd better hold off on catching it until after final Gym Leader Giovanni retires out of shame. It should be fun to catch a Zapdos just to flip the bird to Rival Jack on the way to the Indigo Plateau.
     

    Explorer of Time

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    Is it a bad idea to use my one Master Ball on whichever of the two legendary birds I pick?
    Unless you plan on completing the Pokedex or are saving it for a shiny, using the Master Ball on your Legendary Bird is probably the best idea. The only things in FRLG that are harder to catch are a roaming Legendary Beast (Suicune in your case) and Mewtwo, both of which aren't Flying-type and are only in the postgame.
     
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    You can trade/hack in them all at the beginning at Lv. 5, of course, but I'd recommend holding off on Sneasel and Murkrow for a couple gyms since they have high base stats compared to the other three. I'd say Goldenrod would be a good place for them to be traded/hacked in without being too overpowered, though you can get them earlier if you're having trouble with Water-types. Definitely get Houndour as your starter at the beginning, and Larvitar either at the beginning or close to it. Neither of these have high base stats, so they should offer you a moderate amount of challenge to use in the early game.
    I was going to start with Murkrow, simply because up to this point, I've always gone with "earliest you can catch" if it's not a true starter. I can certainly set it up to start as Houndour. I guess I just replace Cyndaquil, since the team for the rival isn't really "different" when you pick different starters in Gen II, if I remember right.

    Obviously, starting with both Houndour and Larvitar would be L5 for each. What should I plan on doing when I reach Goldenrod? Should I still bring them in at L5?
     

    Explorer of Time

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    Obviously, starting with both Houndour and Larvitar would be L5 for each. What should I plan on doing when I reach Goldenrod? Should I still bring them in at L5?
    If trading, I'd still bring in Murkrow and Sneasel as eggs to hatch at level 5 to avoid the Experience bonus. Otherwise, if they're hacked, I'd do them somewhere around level 15 so you can start using them in battle right away without grinding.
     
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